Adrian Beltre left one defense-oriented team for another today and signed with the Red Sox. When he signed a five-year $64MM deal with the Mariners in 2004, Beltre was coming off a 48 homer season. Last year, he hit just eight homers, but his well-deserved reputation as one of the game's elite defenders earned him $9MM for the upcoming season and the chance to make even more in 2011.
Beltre, 31 in April, will earn a $7MM salary in 2010, in addition to a $2MM signing bonus. He has a player option for 2011 that's worth at least $5MM and will reach $10MM if Beltre makes 640 plate appearances this season. There's also a $1MM buy-out for 2011. It's not a lot of guaranteed money, but Beltre and agent Scott Boras could lobby for a long-term deal if Beltre re-establishes his offensive value in Fenway Park this year.
Jon Heyman tweeted that Beltre was close to a deal with the Red Sox and Buster Onley tweeted some details of the agreement before Tim Brown of Yahoo tweeted that Beltre had "reached an agreement" with the Red Sox. Peter Gammons, Peter Abraham, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, WEEI's Rob Bradford and Alex Speier followed up with the details.
According to the Boston Herald's John Tomase, Beltre turned down both a three-year and four-year deal in order to sign with the Red Sox. Rosenthal says Beltre turned down a pair of three-year, $24MM offers this offseason, apparently from the Phillies and A's. We'll see if he ultimately beats that amount over 2010-12.
The Mariners obtain a supplementary rounder in next year's draft for losing Beltre, who turned down their offer of arbitration.
Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.
arock1234
hoping he signs with the a’s…it seems like more of a fit for both sides than with boston
Pedroias_Destroyahs
PLEASE not the Red Sox
Lamar S
Pls let it be the Red Sox
Kevin
Please BE the Red Sox. His glove on the field makes the Sox arguably the best defensive team in MLB. His bat will play up in Fenway, much like Lowell’s.
jeff l
Ha ha ha false. That’ll be Seattle. And it won’t even be close.
ChrisCa$h
Seattles is not the best team in baseball. Yankees, red sox, phillies are clearly better. Rays, angels , Texas, st louis, dodgers, and dare I say cubs if they bounce back could all possibly be better than the mariners. I’m not saying they’re bad but they’re not the best team in MLB.
ChrisCa$h
I’d like to retract that comment. I read the previous one wrong. I’m srry I’m stupid
start_wearing_purple
I just don’t see the Sox still in on Beltre. Right now I think they’re probably gonna start the season with Lowell at third and make a move for corner infielder some time in the middle of the season… with any luck, Gonzalez.
Latrappe
I don’t see that either, especially with Lowell in the fold. The BoSox would have to stretch their budget to sign Beltre. I don’t think he’s the kind of player ( great defender, don’t get me wrong ) that a team would stretch their budget for.
badscience
I’m with you. Acquiring Beltre seems to block any trade for a big bat. Let Mikey begin the season back at 3B and if the Sox can land AGon, let Lowell play backup 3B and DH for the remainder of the season.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Beltre IS the big bat we’ve been looking for. He will hit .280 or so with 35 homers and 110 RBI’s while playing Gold Glove D on a 1 year deal… How can you not like this deal Start? Usually I’m on the same page as you, but you have to understand that Safeco Field is the second worst hitters ballpark in baseball next to San Diego… Of course his stats plummeted. Check out Beltre’s hit tracker. His power is all over the field. He’s arguably the best 3rd baseman ever to play the game. He is not an Ichiro or Jeter type gap hitter. That’s why he struggled at Safeco. Look at A-Roid. Even his power didn’t come around to its full potential until he hit in Texas. And he used roids in Seattle Yankees fans… live in denial all you want everyone knows it to be true. Just because his head wasn’t shaped like Bonds means nothing. Look at Brian Roberts or Brady Anderson, both of whom definitely used steroids whether they admit it or not.
Safeco field sucks for MOST hitters. Not just Beltre. For God’s sake… Jamie Moyer was a 20 game winner in Seattle…. Nuff said.
Mitch_Cole173
I really hope the Sox don’t sign him. I just don’t see his offense going anywhere but south or neutral at this point. Plus, we can’t pay Lowell $12M to sit on the bench all year until when(if ever) he is traded. I’d rather see them start the year with Youk and Lowell platooning at third and Kotchman and Youk platooning at first. Then trade Lowell for a prospect that can be flipped for a guy like Adrian or Cabrera or whoever else they may choose. Plus, Boston has one thing really going for them in the Adrian sweepstakes. I’m pretty sure he said that he doesn’t expect to be traded, but if he were to be traded he would love to play in Boston.
mick_lowe
mc, good scratch. i don’t believe the sawx are interested in a 3rd bagger without having sniffed around figgins 1st. plus, by now, they have to hate borasshole with a passion. he hasn’t done the pilgrims any favors and he has gotten mr john william henry II a little peeved in his dealings with texeria. also, i’m suspicious of folks that hit 90 hrs in his last year with la (2004 48/104/121 334 ba 1.017 ops) and hasn’t done anywhere as well since. roids? i think so. and to quote the great cry baby – “roids in your last year leads to mucho dinero$ in your next year” – manny man child.
i still say, we should sign holliday (despite his hemorrhoid agent). this would free up a couple of our current rising stars for a trade that may include a salary dump (mikey), to say, san diego?
jphenix2002
I found the salary dump to san diego joke quite amusing 😀
I don’t see how signing Beltre improves the Red Sox any unless he grows to love the Green Monster
K Man
So Gonzo said he would “LOVE” to play for Boston? Is there a link to an interview or aticle that quotes Gonzo?
Please provide. Unless you are just a Sox fan making things up???
I find it mildly odd that Gonzo, a Meican American that lived 10+ years of his life in Mexico, has 2 Mexican parents and PLAYS for a team that has a large Mexican fan base and Mexican American fan base would clearly state that he would “LOVE” to play in Boston, a city with little to no Mexican community.
Again, are you sure you didn’t make that up Mitch_Cole???????????
I will wait to see that link.
ptnj
K-Man – There was a report that he wanted to play for Boston. The comment was linked to a teammate.
cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/18933024
Deanezag
“One teammate indicated Gonzalez has made Boston his preferred destination if he should be dealt.”
Not denying it, but we know it’s all about how they people questions. How did he ask him- hey would you rather play for the Mets or Red Sox? or if you could pick what team do you want to play for? etc.
ptnj
Who knows – but when quotes are usually attributed to teammates, one would think it come from casual conversations they’ve had. Teammates don’t usually interview one another…
tjspring
Oakland makes sense, but so does Seattle. Will be interesting to see what the M’s do with Lopez if they bring Beltre back. Probably Figgins to 2B, Lopez to 1st.
I’ve also heard that the Dodgers are more serious than maybe originally anticipated.
Suzysman
Figgins isnt much of a 2B, and has posted fielding stats on-par/better then Beltre at 3rd the last three seasons. Seems to me it would be a pretty big waste of cash to sign them both – adding someone like Hudson would likely be cheaper and more beneficial to the M’s.
tjspring
Waste of cash might be a slight overstatement. Figgins wasn’t signed as a defensive only guy. His offensive weapons are areas where the Ms are building, and his flexibility to play 2B or 3B at a high level were points of mention in the Press Conference and subsequent interviews after the signing.Hudson’s UZR ratings over the last 3 years are worse than what I could find on Figgins when back he was primarily a 2B, and Beltre and Fig are almost = at 3B. Given the upgrades offensively with Figgins and Beltre, as opposed to Figgins and ODog, Why do you say that he would make more sense?Could be simply a case of Jack Zrdendiuk being coy, but he’s made it pretty clear that he was still involved in Beltre talks. Your thoughts?
Suzysman
Hudson has about an average of -2.5 UZR/150 over the last 4 seasons. Figgins has never played many innings at the position (never even as many as 400 in a year) but averaged out a -8.5 at Second over his career.
“Given the upgrades offensively with Figgins and Beltre, as opposed to Figgins and ODog”
Hudson + Figgins is an offensive upgrade over Figgins + Beltre, not the other way around. These are the wOBA comparisons
09 – .342 Hudson / .305 Beltre
08 – .358 Hudson / .336 Beltre
07 – .361 Hudson / .346 Beltre
06 – .346 Hudson / .338 Beltre
And Beltre is asking for something in the 10MM range, where Hudson might only cost 5.
So Figgins 3B / Hudson 2B = cheaper, more offensive production, almost certainly better defense.
tjspring
Thanks for that. Makes sense.
I suppose my only issue with the breakdown of Hudson vs Figgins is that it’s been a long time since Figgins played 2B, so there could be some variance in his play there.
Specifically, he seems to be getting better defensively since the years that he hasn’t been a super-utility guy, where as Hudson has been getting worse defensively.
Anywhow it’s likely a dead point, looking like the Ms aren’t in the mix any longer, and probably just as well.
Suzysman
“it’s been a long time since Figgins played 2B, so there could be some variance in his play there.”That isnt a good thing though. And as you said, he seems to be getting better at third now that he has been given that job fulltime – why make him switch positions again where he now has to re-learn/get comfortable at a completely new position? To get the most value out of the Figgins signing, you really need to use him at the position he has become good at. More then half his value comes from his defense at third anyway. If the idea really is to sign Beltre as well, then the Figgins signing kind of becomes questionable – he has been so hit and miss with the bat (jumping all over the place with the bat and averaging about league average) and would be an unknown with the glove at Second. If he were to post a -8 range UZR and only a .320 range wOBA, then he would be only about a 1 WAR player – not nearly worth the contract he was given.
kevintbach
The Twins need a 3B. I think they swoop in as a dark horse and pick him up. They have some extra cash with the new stadium.
dodgers_suck
NOOO!!! hes a player i don’t want. if we do add an infielder i would think the giants would laroach.
tjspring
LaRoche or Beltre, they both create some problems with current personell. Personally I think Beltre would be an upgrade over Blake, but you still have to move Blake to make that deal happen.
If they added LaRoche, where would Loney go?
Taskmaster75
I think the Cardinals would be interested in Blake should he be available from the Dodgers. Prospect-wise, the Cardinals don’t have much. We have some decent starter prospects and outfield guys(which you don’t need).
dodgers_suck
add**
Fidel Luna
Really, I hope you are not a Giants fan cuz they are the worst,
Los Angeles Dodgers N.L West Champs of 08 & 09.
BoSoxSam
The only way I could possibly see a good fit with the Red Sox is if they can trade off Lowell and get Beltre for a one-year deal. 😛 That doesn’t keep them stuck with a possibly very frustrating hitter (although with great defense) for very long, also keeps their options for next offseason wide open (although it would take some trickery to pull off the midseason AGon trade everyone is talking about)
Faceplant_04
Beltre was is a RH pull hitter who played the majority of his games in a park that is death to RH pull hitters. On the flipside, Fenway park was built for RH pull hitters. Their isn’t a more perfect park in baseball for Adrian Beltre to play in.
Beltre isn’t a bad player. With Seattle he’s was about a 4.0 win player when you take offense and defense into account. If anything Beltre has been severely underrated.
Faceplant_04
Beltre isn’t a bad hitter. Seriously people, he’s a right handed pull hitter who played the majority of his games in a park that destroys RH pull hitters. Fenway was built for Adrian Beltre.
Furthermore, Beltre is severely underrated if anything. With Seattle he was a 3.5 to 4.0 win player, and should do better than that in Fenway since bunches of flyball outs in Safeco will likely be converted into doubles banging off the Green Monster.
BoSoxSam
Actually, Faceplant, I agree with you. I think Beltre could thrive at Fenway…of course, there would still be some worries about maybe getting injured again? And maybe -not- thriving. I mean, it’s a good point to make about Safeco Field, but we won’t know whether he really will do better at Fenway until he’s here. However, I just think that bringing in Beltre on anything more than a 1 year deal would restrict Boston from so many other possibilities, such as AGon…so I just mean if we see Beltre go to the Red Sox, while I won’t be unhappy with the deal, I will be disappointed because it will DEFINITELY mean that the mid-season trade for a big bat at first base won’t be happening (In fact, it decreases the likelihood of it EVER happening unless for some reason we lost Youkilis…he’s getting close to the point where switching to third base won’t be an option anymore.)
Gibson17
“Then trade Lowell for a prospect that can be flipped for a guy like Adrian or Cabrera or whoever else they may choose.”
You need to understand that for the RS to trade Lowell they have to eat 75% of his salary and even with this, they are not going to get any sort of “elite” prospect that can be flipped for anything of value. Trading Lowell will save the RS $3 million and get him off the roster…that’s it.
Mitch_Cole173
I only said that because they were going to get Max Ramirez in the deal with Texas, who may or may not have gotten flipped to SD if the deal had gone down. And when i said trade Lowell for a prospect, I didn’t mean just mike Lowell, although that is how it came across. I meant trade Lowell, $9M of his salry and a prospect or maybe even MDC for a prospect. I personally suggest trading Lowell, the $9M and a prospect or MDC to SF for Stephen Neal, a young right handed hitting outfielder who has high upside, but just came off his fist above average year between AA and AAA. The Sox can use Neal as trade bait in a package for a big bat, or they can just stick with him and see how he turns out.
dwan
lol at the Giants trading one of their top prospects for a guy who just failed a physical in the trade with Texas.
Ricky
I like this new system BTW…. As a Sox fan I would hope he signs with the A’s or anyone else. Just because Youk doesn’t have the power to be a long term 1b answer for the BoSox. Youk is much better suited as a 3B
Latrappe
Defensively speaking, the Sox would be absolutely fine with Youk at 3rd base and Kochman as their first baseman. If the Sox still look for Beltre, it’s because they try to land an excellent defensive guy who will produce more offensively then Kochman. The real question is: Do the Sox like Beltre so much that they will stretch the budget and pay a luxary taxe?
Mitch_Cole173
If the Sox give Kotchman a chance to play everyday or even play alot they would give him the chance to settle in to Boston he can be a very good hitter.
cookmeister
ya im an angels fan, and when he was given the starting job he started to hit really well
Latrappe
I’m not sure about that. I think Kochman can be decent offensively but i don’t think he will produce at the rate as the Sox brass want him to produce. That said, i’m an old school guy who value pitching and defense more then offense. I have seen so many offensive ” powerhouse ” falling all apart against a strong group of pitchers that having a strong defensive infield is better option for me then to have a first baseman ( with good offensive numbers ) who can’t make the basic play. In that regard, i feel confortable with Youk at 3rd and Kochman at 1st..
Suzysman
“I have seen so many offensive ” powerhouse ” falling all apart against a strong group of pitchers”
If powerhouses are falling apart against a pitching staff, can you imagine what would happen to only fair-average hitters?
Deanezag
Can we please seperate ‘very good hitter’ and ‘average hitter’?
.800 OPS is considered ‘average’; in 2007 he was above averge in 443 AB, in 08 he was below average before and after the trade, in 09 he was below average.
PL
Oakland and Beltre need each other so badly. Lets hope he makes the right choice…
Scott Lewis
A’s, please… the Red Sox are perfectly fine with Youk at third, and there’s still the Mike Lowell issue.
wine club
I think we can draw two conclusions about Boston if they sign Beltre, especially at 10M per year. First, they think Lowell is done and second they don’t like the asking price for Gonzalez.
If the A’s sign him we can assume that they think Chavez is done. Such a talented guy whose career was killed by injury, too bad.
Latrappe
Joyer knows Boston’s farm system so that’s a gimmy that Boston will definitely not like the price for A-Gon. Theo won’t be able to bluff Joyer and the same apply for Joyer. The only positive for Boston is the fact that Joyer will know what he will get ( in term of prospects ) if he deal with Boston. If he deal with another team, he will have to rely on scouting reports which bring more uncertainty regarding the quality and the chances of these propects to reach the major one day.
wine club
Well put to be sure. Not sure what a 1 year deal with an option means, because Beltre would be imminently trade able on a 1/5 deal….but heck I’ll take Gonzalez in SD for as long as possible.
wine club
Well put to be sure. Not sure what a 1 year deal with an option means, because Beltre would be imminently trade able on a 1/5 deal….but heck I’ll take Gonzalez in SD for as long as possible.
BoSoxSam
Great post, and I agree. Because of that, I sure hope Boston doesn’t sign Beltre then! 😛
jdkladsjl
From an A’s fan perspective. I love chavez but he was always hurt, he has to prove that he is healthy .
jdkladsjl
From an A’s fan perspective. I love chavez but he was always hurt, he has to prove that he is healthy .
asfan2010
Borass is just playing games, I just cant see beltre going to oakland unless they overpay. A’sfans were teased last offseason by the furcal drama. A’s are better off making a trade for callaspo, headley, laroche, kouzmanoff, etc
Mr. LA Sports Fan
Beltre makes no sense for the Dodgers unless another move is in the works, one that would move either Blake or Loney to another team. I would be okay if they shipped Blake, but I’d rather them not trade Loney.
UnknownPoster
agreed. I read it and was thinking how would it work. To me, makes no sense, unless of course they have another trade working. Maybe something with Sherrill and Blake???
I really dont want to trade Loney unless it is a FOR guy
asfan2010
Beane will offer some ridiculous overpay llike 3yr/36mill, i hope beltre declines. A’s offered last season furcal 4yr/36-40 mill which he turned down. 3 yr/24-27 is doable, but i doubt thats happens
Fidel Luna
The Dodgers should get pitching, but AB can work maybe as a backup or move him to second
bbxxj
Beltre will not sign on to be a backup, at all. If the Dodgers sign Beltre Blake’s contract will be going somewhere else for perhaps some young cheap inning eater type starter(s).
daniel
Doubt the Dodgers sign him. But if they did, I doubt 1) they could find someone willing to take on Blake’s contract, let alone give any value in return 2) they have any interest in moving Blake, who has widely been credited as a great influence in the Dodger clubhouse by Colletti and the coaching staff.
No sense moving Beltre to 2B when he is an excellent defender at 3B. And I certainly have my doubts about Blake playing 2B. But maybe if Blake felt he could play 2B, they’d start him there and have him spell both Loney at 1B and Beltre at 3B…
I’m not sure what they have in mind if they’re in on Beltre, honestly. Maybe Blake at 1B permanently and Loney traded for pitching?
tjspring
Orioles maybe?
Latrappe
The O’s sign Garett Atkins to play 3rd base…
Guest 172
Atkins said in a radio interview that he was told he could start the season playing 1B.
Latrappe
Didn’t know that info… Thanks for sharing ! Then Beltre could fit in the O’s plan… Heyman just twitted that the Sox are in the 3 finalist…Talk about contridactory reports…
Suzysman
Atkins could be a 3B/1B/LF/DH super-sub though. His numbers (esp away from Coors) dont really point to him being well suited for a starting job.
tjspring
I know, but who knows what you’ll get with Atkins, and he’s played about 100 games at 1B in his career.
Just throwing guesses out there, Orioles must have some secret money to play with, since they’ve been linked to Holliday, so perhaps they could make a smaller splash, but still a splash with Beltre.
BoSoxSam
Sounds like a possibility with Atkins moving to 1b…And if even a small portion of the money they “reportedly” (but didn’t) offered to Holliday is available, they should be able to sign Beltre. Plus it helps them add a decent bat without having to clutter up their already stacked outfield.
Suzysman
“the Red Sox are “not a front-runner and not currently in the mix at all'”
So does that mean the two “coast” teams are the Angels (as I think they would be offering more then the A’s) or Oakland and the Orioles?
tjspring
Looks like a different report from a different source say Boston is in it to win it. Who knows.
Anaheim apparently has bought into giving Wood a fair shot at 3B, so they’re out. Without moving Lowell Boston has some serious challenges in getting Beltre.
My guess is Oak, Seattle, or Minnesota.
JohnY
Don’t be at all surprised if the mystery west coast team ends up being across the Bay from the much more frequently discussed A’s… the Giants make a lot of sense for Beltre, pushing recently-signed DeRosa to LF and keeping Sandoval at 1B. For a reasonable enough deal, I’d like that move for SF.
melonis_rex
I would like this move for the A’s, assuming it isn’t some massive overpay.
But then, what does this entail for Adrian Cardenas?
I see Cardenas as Placido Polanco at 3B, which is a really good player, especially for league minimum. But then, I loved the Polanco signing in a vacuum (not when considering that his 6MM 2010 salary probably keeps one of Drabek/Taylor/Wallace in Philly.).
asfan2010
Cardenas is the 2011 2b when Ellis leaves. Then Jemile Weeks fits in somewhere after that when he’s ready
K Man
“I see Cardenas as Placido Polanco at 3B, which is a really good player, especially for league minimum. But then, I loved the Polanco signing in a vacuum (not when considering that his 6MM 2010 salary probably keeps one of Drabek/Taylor/Wallace in Philly.).”
==============================================================
Not too sure what that means.
Wallace has never been in the Philly organization. And the signing of Polanco has ZERO to do with prospects being moved for Doc.
PL
Cardenas doesnt appear to be anything more than a fill-in at 3B, he could hold it down, but Beltre is an absurdly better defender and a league average bat. Cardenas fits better at 2B when Ellis gets traded on July 31. Weeks goes to CF.
Love that the team if its all plus defenders with the potential Beltre addition! Barton-Ellis-Pennington-Beltre-Suzuki-Crisp-Davis-Sweeney = theres not a better defensive team across the board (M’s have better individual players who are better defenders, but nothing like this from all 8 spots).
BoSoxSam
Red Sox might have close to comparable defense too, with Cameron/Ellsbury/Drew in the outfield (Ellsbury is the only one shaky on defense, and he’s the one who won defensive player of the year, whatever that means), as well as Youk/Scutaro(unremarkable)/Pedroia/Kotchman in the infield. VMart isn’t the greatest catcher though, but the other seven spots look pretty good to me.
Deanezag
“who won defensive player of the year, whatever that means”
Less prestige than a Gold Glove, yet same overall meaning- nothing.
scatterbrian
I agree, though it seems that with the lack of overall interest, they shouldn’t have to overpay.
I’m not sure the A’s see Cardenas as a 3B though. At least scouting reports I’ve read indicate he probably doesn’t have the arm.
Guest 173
PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S PLEASE BE THE A’S
Andy_B
I wonder how much Boras pays Heyman to spread bullshit in the hopes of scaring teams into bidding against themselves.
nick678
I dont believe Heyman at all. The Red Sox are done with Boras. He makes it sound like they have good relations or probably he wants to make look like it was his client who didnt want to sign with the Red Sox not that the Red Sox is not interested on him.
EarlyMorningBoxscore
If the Red Sox sign Beltre they are basically telling us that the rumors of A-Gon and M-Cab are totally out of picture, and furthermore the chance to pick up a bat during the year greatly diminishes with no room for one.
dugoutdog
He’s going to the angels — they’re working hard to spin Matthews off and Soscia’s apathy towards Wood is going to also send him packing. Beltre to LA would also get them a piece of revenge for having lost Figgins to the M’s.
http://www.dugoutdog.blogspot.com
tjspring
Same blog that called The Angels “First in line for Roy Halladay”.
That’s credible.
Manuelilito
Please not the redsox!
Angels02VG
I think he will be a good fit with the Angels. They may not get him but the angels are in heavily need of a power hitter. i think a Two year deal may be worth it. But the way everything is going it looks the the Redsox got his number.
obsessivegiantscompulsive
The talk that I’ve read is that the Dodgers are not happy with Loney and thinking of adding Beltre to start at 3B and moving Blake to 1B. I don’t know if that means a platoon (don’t recall either’s batting side) or what (trade of one or the other, or moving one of them to another position, could Blake play 2B?).
The rumor for the Giants is that they would move Sandoval to 1B and start Beltre at 3B, while starting DeRosa in LF. I don’t see that happening at the dollars being mentioned right now, I think the Giants have to figure out how much they will be on the hook for Lincecum before they can spend big bucks on any free agent, and Beltre wants big bucks.
PL
Giants are a scary possibility. They dont need him technically as they have internal options, but Beltre is better defensively than all of them.
Currently the A’s 3B depth is Fox, McPherson and an old Playboy magazine from 1976.
bomberj11
Whatever team lands him and pays him what he wants, will be immensely over-paying. If the deal’s for $5 million, I’d take that in a heartbeat. Can’t see Boston getting him though.
RoidsRule
If the Sox ponied up the extra 12 million for Tex, we wouldn’t have to be on here discussing whether or not they should sign beltre…
but at least the sox got the next best thing, a guy that was traded pretty much straight up for teixeira!
“You walk Barry. Just walk him.” – Greg Maddux
John
I’d be surprised if the Red Sox end up grabbing Beltre. I like the Orioles as the East Coast team and the A’s or the Angels as the West Coast team.
Latrappe
Angels make sense with the departure of Figgins…
minnesotawins
twins? that would be nice, as long as it isn’t too crazy of a deal. he is the 3rd basemen/right handed bat they need. maybe 1 year 8 mil with incentives that could make it 11 mil?
span
mauer
cuddyer/beltre
morneau
beltre/cuddyer
kubel
hardy
young
punto
Table
I have not been able to find any thing about the Dodger having interest in Adrian Beltre, Jon Heyman or otherwise. Either Heyman edited his piece or MLB Trade Rumors was mistaken, he does mention the Giants which could be seen as odd due to their recent Mark Derosa addition.
I do wish the Dodgers signed Beltre. Blake would be well suited to take on a Derosa type bench role, pinch hitting, and starting at the infield/outfield corners.
Guest 178
Blake was great last year, no way he should be in a Super Sub role.. considering Torre’s really weird use of the bench(or lack of it last year) Blake would get no ABs.. only Loney would have Abs taken.. against lefties, which he can hit.
Table
I disagree. Manny will need to rest some (Pierre is gone), Beltre is a health risk and should rest, and Loney has been sub par, if there playing time to be had, it is at these positions. Last year the Dodger’s pinch hitting was awful in large part due to Mark Loretta, Blake would take his spot as well.
Last year Loretta had 204 plate appearances, Pierre 425, that is 629 plate appearances that need to be replaced next year. Manny and whoever takes the 4th outfielder spot (Xavier Paul hopefully) figure to take allot of Pierre’s abs, and Jamey Carrol could see a few of Loretta’s. However Blake would still manage 250+ plate appearances.
Seeing as how Blake is going to be 37 next year and typically struggles in the second half of a long year, he can only benefit from the reduction in playing time.
Remember, the Dodgers should be trying to make strides upon the last two years of success.
Bottom line however, the Dodgers limited payroll will prevent them from adding Beltre or any other impact player. Internal options rein supreme.
scatterbrian
I don’t see why the Dodgers aren’t a possibility. Blake can play 2B.
Table
I don’t know about 2nd, Casey has played a grand total of 1 inning of second base in his MLB career. He is also entering his age 37 and 38 years.
true2lablue
The Dodgers are not signing Beltre so don’t even waste time getting your hopes up
Guest 176
Why would the Dodgers sign Beltre? Blake at second? Blake at 1st and Loney on the pine? NO.. not happening.
Maybe if the Dodgers can move Blake, luckily he was pretty damn good last year and he might be able to get a MOR starter.. unlikely but that is the only thing that makes sens.e
scatterbrian
Damn, you’re right. I don’t know what I was thinking about, but I could have sworn Blake played a fair amount of 2B with the Indians. Never did. So that pretty much throws that out the window.
Guest 177
I am sure Blake would make the move for the better of the club.. but who knows if that would make the club better.
true2lablue
It’s sad that us Dodgers fans are so desperate for our team to make a move that any time were linked to a player people really think it’s going to happen
Table
Nobody here thinks the chances that the Dodgers land Beltre is much better than 1%, it is just speculation and discussion.
ryanfea
Why are the Angels listed as a suitor for Beltre? Angels have no need for a third basemen. Izturis/Wood are already set to cover the position.
Latrappe
I hear you but still make sense.. Beltre or a combo of Woods/Izturis? I didn’t read any indications that Woods was Angels’s ( De facto ) 3rd baseman. We need some Angels fans to shed light on this…
Ryan
The Twins are just sitting back and letting the 3B/2B market fall apart. They will end up getting Tejada, Hudson or Lopez cheap. Or getting the Pads to bite on the Kouz for Perkins offer. Or worst case, resigning Crede for nothing.
I will fall off my chair if they are even in the running for Beltre at this point.
Thomas Lisiecki
It would be sick if beltre came 2 boston lowell is banged up and will be retire soon its time for a new 3B for when that day comes which is likely 2011
martinfv2
Interesting to note, the Dodgers-Beltre portion of Heyman’s column has been removed.
KenJr1918
Beltre would be an amazing add for the Sox(depending on the price). He brings the best glove in the game to 3rd and allows the Sox the keep Youk in his best defensive position. Anyone who discounts Beltre’s bat should look at his home/road splits. Safeco field is a terrible place for right handed hitters. Beltre would find the Green Monster very much to his liking. My only concern with Beltre is his ability to stay healthy. Anything over three years and 12 million per is to much, IMO.
grouchonyy
A backloaded contract wouldn’t help the RS avoid the luxury tax. Multiple year contracts are averaged.
stl_cards16
Exactly what I was going to say…..You would think people that get paid to write about baseball would realize this.
Guest 185
i was going to post the same thing. edes doesn’t seem to be very good at what he does.
waltersbigsley
I may be wrong here, but isn’t the luxury tax based on the average annual salary of the players’ entire contracts? So in that case, backloading a Beltre deal would not exempt the Red Sox from paying luxury tax on Beltre’s salary.
Sean Proper
I wonder if he’ll sign a 1-yr deal & try again next season. Probably the best idea.
bjsguess
It’s not a bad strategy.
Players like Abreu definitely used it to their advantage last off-season. A healthy Beltre coming off a 25+ HR season would certainly net a 3-4 year deal in the $12m+ range.
tjspring
Wouldn’t he have accepted Arb in that case? Unless someone’s signing him to a 12+M deal, he’s in the red if he does that.
John
This has probably already come up, but Edes is incorrect that back-loading of contracts affects the luxury tax calculation. So, I’d take the rest of the post with a grain of salt then too.
mrjjbond
While backloading the contract would not affect luxury tax calculation, it would help with actual cash flow for the Red Sox. Also, Boston could get around the luxury tax issue with an easily vesting option. That would probably be difficult to get past Boras unless it was for a large amount, which makes sense considering the backloaded claim.
John
Edes point was about luxury tax, not cash flow. I don’t see Boras signing off on a 1+1 option at this point. How are options counted for luxury tax purposes?
mrjjbond
It’s my understanding that only guaranteed dollars are used for tax purposes. A vesting option is not considered guaranteed. And I said that I didn’t think Boras would go for it.The reason I brought up cash flow is because that’s the only benefit to backloading a guaranteed 2 year deal for Beltre. If the BoSox were to sign Beltre to a 2 year $16M deal, they could pay out $6.4M in year 1 and $9.6M in year 2. This would cost the BoSox $9.6M in each year for actual cash flow purposes (assuming they go back below the tax for year 2 with Papi, Lowell, Lugo, etc. coming off the books).
Edit: The actual break down would probably be different that the numbers I provided see as not all of Beltre’s average annual value would count against the cap. However, I believe you can get the general idea.
john
If the A’s are out its because of the price. Beltre is good defensively but can’t hit. This will be a bad contract for anything over $8 million a year.
Dexter_Morgan
Back loading doesn’t help with the luxury tax. Why is it that I know this and people who cover baseball for a living don’t?
Dexter_Morgan
Backloading doesn’t help with the luxury tax
melonis_rex
Watch Robothal’s report end up false
bomberj11
That’d be funny. Can someone please explain to me why the Sox even inquired about this guy?
NYYANKEES
Buster now says A’s pull their offer off the table.
Latrappe
Looks like the A’s are out… I wonder if a bidding war is occuring?
fitz
Not the Sox. Please!
NYYANKEES
Sounds like he will be a Red Sox unless Baltimore or LA gets desperate.
Latrappe
I like Baltimore chances in that derby…
coolstorybro222
Ugh, boston might possibly get another player it doesn’t need.
BoSoxSam
Haha, like Lackey? 🙂 Only difference to me is I can see how they can restructure the team with Lackey to make things interesting, and mostly what I see with Beltre is he’ll just muddle things up…
IloveWa
Beltre is one of the streakiest hitters in the game, but hes always solid at third. As for who will sign him the Red Sox, simply because they have showed more intrest than anybody else. Oakland is on the West coast though which he likes but come on is he really going to stay in the AL West.
Latrappe
Heyman says: Close to deal with BoSox… Mike Lowell should be very happy with that news…
BoSoxSam
NOOOOOOO! Please be wrong Heyman, please be wrong?
I just hope it’s a one-year deal. Meh…
Latrappe
You don’t like defense? 🙂
BoSoxSam
Eh, it’s not that. I just don’t like our future as much, especially if this guy is here for multiple years:1. We don’t get AGon. Chances were slim anyway, but now they’re nil.2. My dream team for next year will be difficult if Beltre is still around: Youk at third, VMart at first and Mauer catching.Oh well, both are big dreams that may not have come to fruition anyway. Now gives the Yanks another edge in Mauer sweepstakes next year, though (if he doesn’t get an extension)
Latrappe
The acquisition of Beltre doesn’t mean that the Sox won’t try to pry away Gonzalez; especially if Beltre have an opt out clause. I mean, the Sox were willing to eat 9 millions on Lowell’s salary to improve their defense at 3rd base. I don’t see any problem for them to eat most of Beltre salary to acquire A-Gon. In fact, A-Gon will probably be traded next winter so if you add that Beltre have an opt out clause, 1+1 =2. If Beltre have a good season, you can bet your last dollar on the fact that he will opt out…
BoSoxSam
Hmmmm….well, good point. Especially with that reasonable 5m option, it looks like they’re saying: “It’s a one-year deal, unless you tank then we’ll hold you up for another year.” So if Beltre performs he’ll be gone, leaving space for a whole bunch of awesome possibilities! 😛
tjspring
I think Beltre > Kotchman/ Lowell, so I wouldn’t be too upset by the signing if I were a Sox Fan, but it sure does create a weird situation with Mike Lowell if they sign him.
Latrappe
I agree but it was pretty clear that the Red Sox didn’t want Lowell as their starter for next year. I mean, they were ready to pay 9 millions to get ride of him. The message was loud and clear, IMO.
BoSoxSam
I just wonder whether they’ll either keep Lowell to platoon at DH, (which means one EXPENSIVE DH), or they trade him while eating 9m, which comes out to an EXPENSIVE 3B 😛
UnknownPoster
I wouldnt be worried, yet. Look at the Dodgers part.. it was so wrong he took it out of his article lol
curiousobserver
A sleeper possibility….SF Giants. Sabean adores Beltre from his college days and has been trying to bring AB to SF for a long time. It is possible.
bj82
So, does this put them over to pay luxury tax?
UnknownPoster
10M annually? no doubt, if the numbers are correct.
Latrappe
Opt out clause… That’s interesting !
soxfan10
To me, there has to be something that we, as fans, are not aware of yet. My best guess would be that the Sox have had further discussions with Texas and have been assured that the Mike Lowell deal will happen as soon as Mike proves that he is healthy in Spring Training. I agree with alot of the other comments that there is no way that the Sox are expanding their payrool and putting themselves over the luxury tax to add an “extra” third baseman.
Latrappe
Lowell, Kochman likely out… I’m sure there’s a market for Kochman outthere…
adamobrien
TBrown of yahoo sports reports that the deal is done with details to follow via Twitter… I hope Theo knows what he is doing with this one….
Latrappe
Hmmm… 10 per for 2 years versus 18 per for 6-7 years is not exactly the same commitment…
BoSoxSam
And now it’s not even 10 per! 🙂
BoSoxSam
What? Holliday was not a good solution for us. We would have Hermida, Cameron, Ellsbury, Drew AND Holliday competing to start in the OF. Obviously Hermida would be our fourth, but you’ve still got too many players. The only way THAT would work if the Red Sox were GUARANTEED to make a trade for AGon using Ellsbury, and still they would rather not go for Holliday. He’s going to be waaay overpriced in a year or two, when the real talent goes on the market, and five years is just too long. Holliday will hit 35, 36 and we’ll be wondering “why the hell did we pay 18m a year for this guy?”
Lamar S
Holliday is asking for 6-8 at 18mill. The Sox have done an awesome job this offense season. They just improved their overall defense at LF, CF, SS and 3b. All within the Budget the team had setup with not getting killed by the CBTl.
Latrappe
The Opt Out clause allow flexibility for both sides and it’s a good thing for Beltre since his market was almost non-existent ( 3-4 teams ). A good season in Boston will make wonder for him if he decide to test the market which i think he will…
DJ Tizzo
hoping to get him back cheap, wasnt in the cards i guess! He should do good in Boston with that short yard in left.
So…….O. Hudson then at 2B now for the M’s???
mrjjbond
Could the “opt out” clause being mentioned actually be a mutual option with a club buyout if the Sox turn it down? I don’t believe the Sox would be on the hook of year 2 from a tax perspective if that’s the case. (The Sox would be on the hook for a 2 year deal at year 1 salary + buyout amount)
adamobrien
Peter Gammons is saying it is a 1 year deal for 9 million + a player option for the 2nd year at 5 million… I would have to say that is a pretty solid deal that puts the Sox D in a very good position…
Latrappe
This is an excellent deal for the Sox if the term is 1 year. Player option will be rejected and the Sox will be free to pursue other options. Great, great deal !
tjspring
Crazy, he’d have gotten that in Arb. Must really be banking on hitting balls out of Fenway and cashing in next year.
mrjjbond
As a Sox fan, I love the signing. Barring any new of signing bonuses it will only count for $7M against the Tax figure. If we can move Lowell while eating $9M of his salary our Tax payroll is only increased by $4M, which should keep us under the tax. The Sox could always move Kotchman to free up payroll as well.
Latrappe
I don’t see Kotchman being on the Sox roster at the spring training…
cubbyfan23
I don’t really see any point to dealing Kotchman before ST is over. Injuries to any of Youkilis, Ortiz or Beltre could result in him being used.
I don’t think he’s a bad bench bat either considering the flexibility you have of playing Youk/Beltre at 3B, Kotchman at 1B on days off.
ElWaldorf
wow this is a steal if nothing else. And basically will say “we will take 9 mil of lowell’s contract” to everyone and anyone.
Guest 189
$9mm + $9mm = $18mm for a $7mm player
I’m not saying wow
strasburgsavior
He’s got a .287 BA with 34 HR in 809 AB from 06-09 away from Seattle, so it’s a safe bet that his numbers will go up. However his .105 BA at Fenway is rather worrisome.
Glebb
Solid deal. Red sox Yankees games are going to be hella competitive this year.
BentoBox
So does this mean bye-bye Senor doubles ?
If not, he’d be a pretty expensive bench player.
BoSoxSam
I assume you’re talking about Lowell (I never called him senor doubles myself :P)? If so, I think it’s most likely he’ll be gone. The other possibility though, is that he stays and platoons with Ortiz on DH. They could mash RH/LH pitching and give them both more time off which might be a good thing. Of course that would be expensive, but only 3m more than trading him.
K Man
Isn’t this about the time where all the Sox fans that have been bashing even the idea of Beltre to Boston all hop aboard the “at this price it’s a great move”…”his defense at that price is a great signing”….
Remember, we can go back and cut and paste messages if we need to….
If they decide Lowell can play, I could maybe see Kotchman being dealt to the M’s for nothing too special.
Come on Sox fans, don’t disappoint me! Tell us all how much you love this deal!
Latrappe
Sox fan or not… Beltre is a very good defender and the team is on the hook for 1 year. Honnestly, it’s a great deal whatever the team…
BoSoxSam
Okay, I’ll admit it. I’m one! At first I -was- bashing this. I was hoping to see some sort of AGon trade around the deadline this year (which Beltre would block), and with the years he had been asking for, I thought if we got Beltre we’d be restricted from moving Youk over to make room for AGon or Mauer (Vmart would go to first). However, now that I see what the deal is, as well as reading some smart comments, I see that it could actually still work out very well for the Sox. Beltre IS good, and I’ve always thought so…before AGon rumors got really hot and heavy I was really hoping Beltre would get signed. Defense is great, and as a RH pull hitter he has the chance to hit 20-25 homers. Plus with the op-out, if he DOES play that well, he’ll be gone next year (5m? pff a Scott Boras client would never stoop that low!). Which leaves rooms for AGon or Mauer!
Lamar S
BoSoxSam
I would have loved for the Sox to trade for AGon but with Hoyer (coming over from Boston) as the new GM. And knowing the farm system he would have raked the Sox over the coals for AGon. This way we dont have to trade Buch, Kelly, Westmoreland or any other prized minor leaguers. And the Sox will have Lugo, Lowell and Big Papi off the books.
Lamar S
“Isn’t this about the time where all the Sox fans that have been bashing even the idea of Beltre to Boston all hop aboard the “at this price it’s a great move”…”his defense at that price is a great signing”….
K-man, Nope I have been saying this since the end of the season. I wanted the sox to pass on Bay and sign both Cameron and Beltre. Although I thought it would cost the Sox 2 years at 16mil for Beltre. And lastly, Yes I LOVE this deal!!!
Sampsonite168 2
Wow. Sounds like Beltre wanted nothing to do with the A’s, and the Red Sox really, really do not want Lowell on the field next season.
bj82
Watch Beltre have a pretty good season in Boston and reestablish his value for next year.
UnknownPoster
honest question… if this deal goes through for 9M, and they trade Lowell and eat 9M.. thats basically 18M for Beltre’s production, and possibly another player. Wow, that seems like a crappy deal espically when you already have a 3B under contract and plenty of IF opitions.. Vmart, Youk, Lowell, Pedoria, Scutaro, etc.
bj82
Funny is they will criticize the Yanks for spending too much, but they will say anyhting about that bcus you can’t see it in the actual payroll if Lowell is traded.
adamobrien
Looks like Theo is realizing AGon can not be had for one reason or another…Although it would appear the D is being shored up, I am not too sure how Beltre’s bat will produce. Hopefully the Monster will help his production and he will stay healthy, otherwise it will be a waste of 18mm…
Ferrariman
Was beltre offered arb? Is so, is he A or B
ArmchairGM
No arb offer, though I believe he was type B anyway.
tjspring
That’s not true, he was offered Arb and turned it down. He was Type B, Ms get a supplmental pick.
Not sure how the loss of Bay, Lackey, Cameron deals will shake out the picks, but losing a sup pick is pretty inconsequential to the Sox.
ArmchairGM
Apologies, thought he wasn’t offered arbitration. In any case, the Sox do not give up a pick, as he is a Type B, it is “gifted” by MLB.
tjspring
Ok that makes sense. So doesn’t matter to the Sox. Anyway a good signing.
Guest 188
Not a fan of this move for the Red Sox. They are over the limit in terms of Luxury Tax. There was an article written this past weekend in the Boston Globe where Henry states the organization is already over or going to go over shortly. Based on his comment, I get the feeling it is inevitable. I’d be curious to see where they come in when it’s all said and done. Perhaps $175-180mm. That’s a lot of dollars locked up on when it comes down to it, to a lot of non star players. Are there any HOF players on the active roster? Food for thought. They better hope some of these signings pan out.
jpfinest
hey century good point man. and pedroia and youk are not making alot of that money. b
K Man
It is too bad the Sox are stuck watching the sad demise of Big Pedi, er Papi or this deal works with that DH hole open,…oh well.
Beltre should be quite productive offensively at Fenway. His warning track power turns into doubles and let’s not forget this is a big audition for his services next year, or he makes only $5mill…I think the signs are there for production (again assuming health, like any other player).
Kotchman to the M’s if they think Lowel can play, otherwise the deal Lowell and eat $7-9 mill.
Lamar S
If they can trade Lowell, they will save 3 mill and will be under the luxury tax. Also, while it does seem alot of money. The Sox are actually in the drivers set for next season. The following players come off the books: Lugo, Lowell, Big Papi and possibly Beltre, especially if he has a good season.
Guest 194
like I said, go read the article in the Globe. They are already over. I’m going with what Henry says not the fans on here, the mathematicians we all are.
kylelitke
Is that actually Peter Gammon’s twitter? It seems…weird. Until the last couple of Tweets he just posted weird stuff.
jpfinest
the red sox gave cameron 7.5mm i think and now are giving beltre 9mm. why not use that 16.5mm add 3mm or so and get matt holliday? can any of yall think why dey didnt just add couple more mm and get holliday?
NYYANKEES
Guess it was because Holliday wanted more than 5 years.
jpfinest
why not go after him. they gave drew a long contract and holliday is better. these litle signing adds up. for 180mm thats a lot of ok batters.
ArmchairGM
Simply put: payroll, and the 22.5% luxury tax they would have to pay.
Also, given the direction of the team I would rather have excellent defense in 2 positions in Beltre and Cameron for affordable, short contracts without blocking developing prospects than locking up someone like Holliday for 100MM+ for upwards of 6 years. It is not a simple matter of 19MM or so as you say, the commitment to Holliday would be much higher.
The addition of Cameron also gives the Sox better defensive options, as they can put Ellsbury in left and play Cameron in center, giving them an all-around better defensive outfield, which plays into the apparent run prevention they have decided to buy into.
I think it all makes perfect sense, and the deals are all quite reasonable.
Lamar S
But that is 180mill in just one player and let’s face it, he is no M. Texiera! Sorry but Texiera is one of those once in a lifetime type player you give a franchise contract to. And while I hate the fact the Sox lost out on Texiera last year, I can’t fault the Yankees for outbidding the Sox for his services. With the money the Sox spent in the offense season they improved their overall Defense at LF, CF, SS and 3B. Sure they will miss Bays production at the plate, but they would miss defense.
BoSoxSam
Seriously, all you Holliday fanboys need to wake up. How does that make any sense? With these two signings (plus the Scutaro signing, plus the Lackey signing) we BOOSTED our defense CONSIDERABLY, still added production (Scutaro is miles above Lowrie/Green, and Beltre should hopefully hit 20-25 home runs in a hitter friendly park), as well as a dependable starter, where in your world we sign one big bopper who will be overpriced and given too many years, who will probably see his career taper off in only a couple of years, who might ACTUALLY have trouble in the AL (not just oakland’s fault) instead. Maybe we nab Scutaro too. I think we are in a much better position right now than if we had signed Holliday. I may sound like one of those constantly optimistic Red Sox fans, but I’m okay with that. I LOVE how this offseason turned out. And hopefully, it may not even be over yet (I’m looking at the bullpen :P)
jpfinest
like centuary siad 180mm and the lineup doesnt have one guy that could put up moster #. there are good hitter( pedroia, youk) but they are not even making alot of that $. i guess in 2010 the red sox decided to sign hitter with the LOW SALARY AND NOT SO HIGH UPSIDE instead of teh low risk hign reward pitcher like penny/ smolts(aka fossil) wich was a joke.
Glebb
“Watch Beltre have a pretty good season in Boston and reestablish his value for next year.”
That’s the point. Playing in a high profile market means everything he does will be overrated.
Boras is clearly going to try to get Beltre a 4-5 year deal next year. I would not be surprised to see Beltre hit 27+HR’s and bat .275-.290
Why this signing is solid
1)Beltre is well above average playing D at third
2)Beltre’s worst season since 2002 is 2.4 WAR
3)Should have an offensive resurgence going from safeco to fenway
3)Practically no commitment. 1 year deal is very flexible. They will either try to resign him to a bay like deal(4 years 60 mil) or take the type A picks when he leaves for greener pastures. Win/Win.
Latrappe
Bay left for the Mets.. Is it greener pastures 🙂 ?
Super_Hero
yes. Yankees got that division locked up for yrs.
Dustroia15
Locked up for years? The Red Sox and Yankees are basically just as strong as each other at every position. The only difference in the two teams is really ARod. The Red Sox will have a ton of money free’d up at the end of the season. Add a Cliff Lee, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder to the Sox in an upcoming free agent year and the Sox probably take the slight edge.
Super_Hero
haha, yankee and red sox are as strong as each other, lol. forget A-Rod, Red Sox has no one compared to Tex and CC while Lackey is better then AJ but that its. Yankee also have Javier as their #4 pitcher. Red Sox don’t even have a 100rbi guy. who is going to drive Cameron home when Cameron can’t even get to first. I do agree you will add a star player after the yr but it still won’t match up to the Yankees.
strasburgsavior
Cameron > Gardner
Ellsbury = Granderson
JD Drew >= Nick Swisher (please don’t dispute it, JD Drew was fourth in all OBP of and loook at WAR$)
Mark Teixiera > Kevin Youkillis (by a slight margin)
Pedroia > Cano (by a slight margin)
Derek Jeter > Marco Scutaro
ARod > Beltre/Lowell
Martinez > Posada
CC = Beckett
Lester > Burnett
Lackey > Pettite
Dice-K ? Vazquez (both have make or break years–remember Dice K is one year removed from ACE numbers in the AL East, Vazquez has posted ace numbers only in the Mickey Mouse Leage, Dice K was terrific when he came back up/recovered)
Buchholz > Chamberlain/Mitre (again, I know every Yankee fan will whine about this but Chamberlain’s WHIP was a 1.97–that’s unacceptable)
Yankees have the edge in hitting while sox have the edge in pitching/defense.
BentoBox
Just want to point out some things ..
Granderson (3.4 WAR) > Ellsbury (1.9 WAR)
Lester (6.2 WAR) > Sabathia (6.0 WAR) Just by a slight margin.
Beckett (5.3 WAR) > AJ Burnett (3.1 WAR)
Vasquez (6.6 WAR) > Dice-K (0.5 WAR/injury)
Buchholz = Hughes/Joba
BoSoxSam
greener as in benjamins…yes 😛
Lamar S
Somewhat … He did manage to get a 5 year out of the deal. But it comes with a price. He goes from a park that was tailor made for his bat and defense. To the overly spacious citi park in NY.
TheGodfather
damn
YanksFanSince78
Good move for the Sox although there’s tons of overlap on there roster. Where does that send Lowell to?
YanksFanSince78
If Boras can convince Beltre, or vice versa, to take a 1 year + player option then one of Boras or Damon should be on the phone with Cashman trying to work out a similar deal.
melonis_rex
WTF mate.
And why did the A’s drop out of the bidding? Facepalm.
User 4245925809
1 year and 9M? All he is worth. Beltre, turn around and slap your useless agent now for giving you a royal screwing over out of 12M plus in arbitration..
Lamar S
Lol, this his a win/win situation for both Bos and Beltre. If he has a decent or monster year he can opt out of the contract and hit pay dirt. As it was he wasn’t getting the money he wanted anyways which was 10mil annually.
Guest 192
well atleast we know Adrian Gonzalez will not be on the Red Sox. Mariners Possibly?
BoSoxSam
Something could still happen next winter!
ArmchairGM
I fail to see how a 1 year deal instantly stops them from attempting to attain Gonzalez. If the opportunity arose this would not stop the FO.
badscience
I think this signing sets the table for an AGon (or Mauer) signing:
(1) Short term deal for 3B (likely 1 year for Beltre)
(2) Preserves Buchholz & top prospects for future trade
(3) Low enough $$ to keep Sox under luxury tax for 2010 (with a Lowell move) and room to re-sign Martinez and/or Beckett
If the Sox can make it to the playoffs in 2010 with this line-up, they are well positioned to make a major move on a superstar target.
Go Red Sox!
Dustroia15
I think Beltre and Lowell would provide similar offensive numbers if they were the starter in the Boston lineup. At this point Beltre is obviously the better choice defensively….is it worth the additional money that is going to cost the Sox, probably not.
I would rather have the Sox trade Ortiz since he will be paid the same thing as Lowell and can’t play any position except DH; would the Sox have to eat the salary on a guy who could provide 35/110 if he can hit for an entire season?
Lineup looks pretty good in either case…
SS – Scutaro
2B – Pedroia
C – Martinez
1B – Youk
3B – Beltre
DH – Lowell/Ortiz
RF – Drew
LF – Cameron
CF – Ellsbury
SP – Lester
SP – Beckett
SP – Lackey aka the bear from the Cleveland Show
SP – Buchholz
SP – Matsuzaka
SU – Bard/Okajima
CL – Papelbon
BoSoxSam
I don’t think it’s much of an issue that Ortiz can only play DH. Lowell’s age and health are still and always will be issues, while Ortiz just seemed to forget how to play (but brought it back near the end). Ortiz could be due for (as you said) 35/110, which is great for DH and better than what Lowell can offer in that spot. Plus I don’t think Lowell’s 3B skills would be used much more even if they traded Ortiz instead. Plus, Ortiz’s fan value is admittedly much higher than Lowell’s, even with Lowell’s great rep with the team.
One random nugget that I noticed while reading your post: It looks (unsurprisingly) like Wakefield is our number 6 starter. He’ll probably get to pitch some games, with injuries and all that, but still. I would love to see him become the Red Sox career wins leader, as he’s such a great guy, and two years of being our number 6 may not be enough to get the 14 wins he needs. 🙁 I hope he makes it though!
ArmchairGM
I think Wakefield goes to the ‘pen as a long reliever, until needed given that injuries WILL happen, with both Beckett and Lackey in the starting rotation, and in the bullpen he will likely have win opportunities if is actually being utilized as a long reliever. Keep in mind that if a deadline deal happens and Buchholz leaves, Wakefield is back to #5 (provided a pitcher isn’t acquired in said deal).
BoSoxSam
Yeah. One thing I did hear is that with the knuckleball it could be difficult for him to move to the bullpen…but he’s always been able to do so in the postseason, I think it could work. Well, just out of respect for this great guy I sure hope he gets the wins! Pass that ol’ steroid hack Clemens (tongue-in-cheek of course, he was also a great pitcher :P) and even the old standard, Cy Young!
pal1166
switch Ells/Scutaro and switch Beltre/Ortiz Lowell will be gone
Guest 193
So upwards of $26mm on paper for both Lowell and Beltre. Not very thrifty.
Dustroia15
That is some pretty good math?
9 + 12.5 = $21.5
Guest 196
Player option $5mm. It’s on paper, it counts. Buyout is $1mm for the Sox to exercise that buyout, that means that Beltre is either injured or has a horrible season, in that case flush that $10mm down the drain. Either way you look at it, there is a high probability this costs them the full $26mm or more. Btw Martinez, Youk, Kotchman, Lowell, Beltre that’s over $40mm on the books. Pretty scary how close that it to Arod and Tex numbers.
Dustroia15
Martinez is the starting catcher he shouldn’t be included. How are you including Beltres option for next year? He wont even pick it up…the Sox will be on the hook for just the $1M.
The Sox corners are at about $32, Tex and ARod are at about $53M
In 2011 the Sox are commited to about $17M, Tex and ARod about $61M
Numbers aren’t even close…
ptnj
It’s 21.5M THIS YEAR…which is all that matters. The 1M buyout would count against next year’s salary numbers. The player option would ALSO count against next year’s salary numbers.
BoSoxSam
could be less if this Castillo trade has any weight. Looks like they’re still going to try to get under the Luxury tax. If not though, I don’t think it’ll impact them much; next year is when they’ll want to lower payroll (right before going crazy on big FA’s) and with the players coming off the books they should be able to accomplish that.
pageian
Descent pickup for the Red Sox, is Beltre’s defense really that much more valuable than Lowell though? Sox obviously think Lowell is done defensively. Beltre will get a bump in offense at Fenway rather than Safeco, I’d expect him to roughly equate Lowell offensively. Seems like a pretty small upgrade for a large cost (depending on how much they end up eating on Lowell) all things considered.
ilikebaseball
Lowell’s UZR last year was -10.4, Beltre’s was 14.3. That kind of upgrade could provide substantial dividends…especially for a team that is clearly predicated upon pitching and defense.
User 4245925809
“If Boras can convince Beltre, or vice versa, to take a 1 year + player option then one of Boras or Damon should be on the phone with Cashman trying to work out a similar deal.”
That is a very good point YFS78, especially with Damon prophesying his “love” of being a NYY, then I remember his doing the same thing of being a member of the Red Sox also..
I think he still will be returning, but not because of any loyalties, but because those greener pastures turned brown.
ptnj
Damon to SF for two years and an option…..it makes sense.
User 4245925809
It actually does make sense pt_nj. Couple of things keep it from maybe materializing though, but I agree whole heartedly that it seems perfect: Sabean and how he seems to be pinching pennies this off season and Damon won’t get over his NYY Blues. Both are missing out on what seems like would be a good fit.
Guest 195
He would have been such more of a fit for the A’s and it would have made that division so much more competetive but we have to let the cards fall where they may.
bomberj11
Why? Bad Theo.
MLB_in_the_Know
Do you think the $5M player option was a way to get around the luxury tax?Since back-loading a contract wouldn’t matter for luxury tax purposes, wouldn’t it seem to figure that ‘front-loading’ it with an option the player will obviously turn down would be a way around the luxury tax. For luxury tax purposes this is a 7M deal, not a 10M deal… loophole?
billlollini
Good move in my opinion. I like how these guys look in redsox unis, def the best option available and boston got him without the long term commitment and without the money annually even great managing by theo in my opinion. Now i hear that the sox are talking with the mets about a castillo- lowell swap, that would cut the sox cap this year by six million but he is owed that six million next year too. But, it most likely puts them under the cap so theo is doing his best to get the most for the money and i have no problem with that, boras is really making himself look bad recently i think though. beltre is getting 3 million less than arbitration and varitek got at least five mil less last year. Go Sox. I like the approach, defense and pitching should be stout along with pretty good pop. especially with doubles off the monster is my opinion. This team WILL be able to manufacture runs up and down the order at fenway or away.
levendis
yeah, this is no surprise, was bound to happen.
jimbeau
. . . figures. It’s a good signing but I still like Lowell. It will end up costing the team a lot more money than Beltre will see in this deal. I wonder if he’ll thrive in this market as much as Lowell has. That said, I’m no GM; it will probably end up working out as well as the Drew signing has.
ronnyronron9
century; all that money and you forgot to mention that that list includes the sox starting catcher as well as their #2 player off the bench in kotchman.
If you want to compare the teams and what they spend for players you should include Posada, Tex, AROD and whoever happens to be their backup 1B next season. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges and wasting all of our time
Guest 197
That’s kind of my point. You have two proper top 10 players manning their respective positions while the sox have multiple that ultimately outside of Youkilis are not considered consistent at those positions. I think Youk has given the impression that he would like to have one designated to him, he doesn’t care which apparently, but the merry go round of average players at high dollars is not appealing. I’m not saying this is bad for them so much on the field, for the moment, but it’s a lot bread to pay these particular guys. I understand your point about Martinez, however if he is your full time catcher, play him as the catcher. Until Varitek is gone, then Martinez is considered in my mind, as partially more money going to the infield. He is a talented player, but not nearly the best in the league. I’m just saying these are all very interesting signings this off season by Theo, and I am definitely questioning many of them. The payroll is really getting up there now and the chatter about Yanks to them or anyone else is all but gone at this point.
CrustyJuggler
“is Beltre’s defense really that much more valuable than Lowell though?”
–Yes.
Beltre is the best defensive 3B in baseball. ‘Nuff said.
strasburgsavior
Erroneous.Ryan Zimmerman is the best fielding 3B in baseball. Zimmerman 2009 UZR: 18.1Beltre 2009 UZR: 14.3Better UZR, most chances in baseball, played forty more games.
IndianaBob
Evan Longoria is slightly better on D.
ronnyronron9
and on top of that AROD and Tex are making closer to 50 this year. Throw in posada and two bench players of your choice (to compare to lowell and kotchman) and you have yourself a comparison
YankeesFan4Life
We need to counter this move and sign Holliday 😉 lol
fitz
Can live with a one year deal though never been a Beltre fan.
Gordon
beltre will do fine in fenway, better park for him than the safe. It kills RH pull hitters. Plus, he is tough SOB, and will kill himself to be in the lineup everyday. He finished a game with a busted nut…nough said. As an M’s fan I hate to see him go. Good luck in Boston AB.
strasburgsavior
.105 career BA in Fenway, although the .287 career BA away from Safeco is nice.
ArmchairGM
According to Baseball-Reference (baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltra…) it’s actually a .179 clip at Fenway, not that it means much. Also a relatively small sample size at 67 PA in 16 games. But it’s difficult to project statistics on a sample like that, particularly when they are all from different points in his career.
BentoBox
To be fair, batting average isnt really the best way to judge a hitter .. but Beltre only had a .304 OBP in 2009, .327 OBP in 2008.
strasburgsavior
Believe me, I agree with you 100%, I’m a seamhead, I love sabermetrics, but 50% of the fans out there are too stupid to understand anything but BA/ERA/W-L
bjsguess
Another smart move by the Red Sox. I hate saying that.
strasburgsavior
Just wanna point this out to all the people saying “Beltre is the best defensive third baseman in baseball”Zimmerman 2009 UZR: 18.1Beltre2009 UZR: 14.3Better UZR, most chances in baseball, played forty more games.Smart signing by the Sox though.
BentoBox
Evan Longoria would like to say hello too –
2008 – 119 Games/14.9 UZR
2009 – 151 Games/18.5 UZR
strasburgsavior
In response to that, Zimmerman’s UZR/150 is better than Longoria’s. Again, I’ll parrot that Zimmerman was put on the spot defensively more than any other third baseman in baseball. Most chances and was unbelievable in converting them even with Adam Dunn (one of the worst fielders in baseball) at first base.
bravos
You guys ( Red Sox) are gonna regret signing Beltre. Yes, he is a great defender but he is a minor leaguer at the plate….low power numbers and has poor disciple at the plate…
he almost never walks. Theo should have gotten DeRosa . Come late summer you’ll see this was wasted money. Better scenario ,either DeRosa at third or Youlk on third with LaRoache on first. Sox are gonna see that Beltre is way over rated.
strasburgsavior
Really? .287 is “minor leaguer”? So…..huh, Marky Mark, Damon, and A-Rod are “minor leaguers” then?
bravos
Damon and ARod hit homeruns, Beltere hit eight….and he acts like taking walk is against his religion. He is just a defensive specialist, thats all….you’ll see come SEPT.
However, with a small park like fenway he’ll do ok. All I am saying is that its a lot of money for avg. offensive skills.
Kevin
beltre was hurt last year, and safeco suppresses RH pull hitters. i expect 25 hrs from beltre and a higher average because of balls in play just from peppering the monster.
tjspring
Beltre hasx been a gamer in Seattle, for better or worse. He’s been postponing surgeries (thumb, wrist, shoulder) etc.. for as long as he was in an M’s uniform. Last year he was badly hurt, then came back to bust a Testicle.
It was about as bad a contract year as a guy could have. I think he’ll have a big year and get a 3-4 year deal next offseason. The 5M option is a no-lose situation for the Sox. That said, he fouls off ALOT of balls rather than taking them. Lots of 12-pitch counts ending in a K. I know it’s helpful to exasperate a pitcher with long counts, but at some point you gotta hold the trigger and get on base.
Defensively Boston just went from good to great, offensively they’ve improved. I can’t see this as a bad move, even if Beltre posts his average year offensively.
Hoosierdaddy92
thats actually a pretty good deal for the red sox IMO. no long term commitment. Beltre is a great replacement for Bay power-wise at Fenway. He also will have protection in a lineup for a change, which he never had a Safeco. I know they play different positions but offensively, they are about the same hitter. .270 hitter with 25-35 homerun power. Yes I know beltre has been below that, but I blame his environment and expectations to fill the contract, and lack of motivation. In Boston, I think this is a great call. I am by no means a Red Sox fan, but I definitely think they have made some great acquisitions offensively and defensively. Cameron=huge improvement over Bay in LF defensively. Beltre=huge improvement over Lowell defensively. Scutaro solid defensive player, neck and neck with Gonzalez and Lowrie.
BoSoxSam
Heh, speaking about motivation, the fact that Beltre turned down three-four year offers to play with the Sox definitely factors in there. Hopefully if he really wants to be here, that motivation level will shoot through the roof! Also looking at Lackey for the same thing…the only reason the Red Sox signed him was because HE was interested in THEM. Kinda neat this year, looks like some FAs are coming specifically to the Sox, which gives the team options they didn’t think they had!
karatemanchan37
With that fence in Fenway Beltre’s a shoo-in for comeback player of the year. It’s been a good four years you had with us Adrian, though that arse Bavasi shouldn’t have paid you that much money…but your Defense will definitely be missed
Oh wait we signed Figgins. Never mind 😉
jmoff
Very little to dislike about this signing. As soon as the Sox can rid themselves of Lowell’s $12m salary via some form of dump, the better they’ll be.
Bottom line, even if Lowell & Veritek are both playing off the bench, the Red Sox are a stronger team than last year…
phightinphils
I’d love to point out to all of those people who said Beltre would get a 3/39MM dollar deal or somewhere in that range… What is Amaro thinking now… for not being able to grap Beltre for 1 year/9MM or 2yr/14m,
bravos
Dear Strasbergsavior….Damon and ARod hit homeruns, Beltere hit eight….and he acts like taking a walk is against his religion. He is just a defensive specialist, that’s all….you’ll see come SEPT.
However, with a small park like fenway he’ll do ok. All I am saying is that its a lot of money for avg. offensive skills.
bravos
Totally agree….Zimmerman and Longoria are better than Beltre…..sorry look at the numbers folks !
start_wearing_purple
Technically you’re cherry pick stats… according to fangraphs Beltre had the high UZR/150. So if he had played 150 games he could have had a higher UZR. Whatever though. Ultimately getting down to the nitty gritty comparisons of defense is really going to be a matter of opinion rather than fact. I’ll just say this, the Sox got a quality defender… whether or not he’s better than Zimmerman or Longoria is going to be a matter of what team you root for.
strasburgsavior
COULD have had a higher UZR. The fact remains is that he played less games and had a lot less chances than either Zimmerman or Longoria.
strasburgsavior
COULD have had a higher UZR. The fact remains is that he played less games and had a lot less chances than either Zimmerman or Longoria.
PhilsPhaninPhlorida
So… Looks like the Red Sox and Yankees are on an even level again. Rays too…
Yankees Red Sox Rays
1) Gardner Ellsbury Crawford
2) Jeter Pedroia Bartlett
3) Teixeira V-Mart Upton
4) A-Rod Youkalis Longoria
5) Granderson Ortiz Pena
6) Cano Beltre Burrell
7) Posada JD Drew Joyce
8) N. Johnson Cameron Zobrist
9) Swisher Scutaro Shoppach
Hermida
Lowell
Varitek
PhilsPhaninPhlorida
Phillies fans… Chill about Beltre. Polanco is what we “needed”
He is the perfect #2 hitter for us..
FanGraphs 2010 Projections:
Polanco: 581 AB / 89 R / 173 H / 10 HR / 79 RBI / 6 SB / .298
Beltre: 544 AB / 76 R / 149 H / 23 HR / 78 RBI / 12 SB / .274
THE HR’s can go up for Polanco, let’s not forget, when he was our 2B before Utley, he hit 17 HR’s in CBP’s 1st year…. and he hardly K’s, which is what we need…
Rollins can steal 10-15 more bases on that fact alone, you know Polanco will work the count and allow Rollins to run wild… he helps the entire line-up. Beltre wouldn’t have had that effect… we all ready have more than enough Power already..
start_wearing_purple
So 2009 we were ready to field a team of Lugo, an injured Lowell, and Bay and ended up with one of the worst defensive teams in the majors. Now Theo has added a gold glove outfielder, gold glove third baseman, and an above average shortstop… And here I thought it was a radical philosophy shift in not trading away a guy who could steal 50 bases.
andrewrickli
He is gonging to get hurt, before the AS break and be out for a year, like Delgado…Red Sox are going to look back on this signing as one that was disasterous…just wait and see.
0bsessions
Beltre is about as likely to get hurt next season as A-Rod is. He’s signed for a single year and at relatively light money. I’m sorry, but of all of the deals Theo made this offseason, Lackey’s really the only one you can consider a risk, and that’s just because of the years.
ArmchairGM
If for some unknown reason Beltre were to get hurt and was out for the rest of the season I still don’t see it as that much of a loss, particularly with the kind of timing you’re describing as I think Boston will be making another play at a 1B near the trade deadline.
It’s essentially a 1 year deal for a generally well above average defensive 3B who can most likely hit decent at Fenway, despite his history. I don’t get the complete hate for this deal, it’s not going to block anyone and it vastly improves defense. What’s the major concern?
start_wearing_purple
The Mets traded for a guy with 4 years and $56M on his contract. The Red Sox just signed a a guy that will max out 2 yrs and $14M… how exactly are these similar?
R_y_a_n
Ugh. As a Yankee fan, I hate this deal.
Beltre, excluding this past year when he was injured, has averaged nearly a 3.6 WAR during his time in Seattle. His average line in a horrible park for right-handed hitters, was .266/.319/.454/.773. Nothing special, but couple that in with his ridiculously good defense, he makes a pretty good player.
Now, put him in Fenway, you can probably assume his numbers go up, at least a little bit. If Beltre can even give the line he was in Seattle from 2005-2008, at only 9 mil. this is a fantastic deal for the Red Sox. Beltre has been a very, very underrated player in this market, in my opinion.
dong
Relax, Beltre will hit 12 homeruns this year. THis team was historically a “patient” team. Now between Beltre and Cameron, add 300 extra strikeouts to that, plus Pappi isn’t suddenly going to get his bat speed back. This team has significantly declined offensively, yes, there defense has improved, but they better hope for a lot of 2-1 games because there offense is going to be horrible. Think about it. J.D Drew will be on the DL by mid may early june for a paper cut. Like I said, Pappi is going to hit 220 if he is lucky. Ellsbury OBP is low 300’s which is the worst in the majors for a leadoff hitter. Everything will be ok, Sox and Rays will battlling it out for 2nd place.
dong
Relax, Beltre will hit 12 homeruns this year. THis team was historically a “patient” team. Now between Beltre and Cameron, add 300 extra strikeouts to that, plus Pappi isn’t suddenly going to get his bat speed back. This team has significantly declined offensively, yes, there defense has improved, but they better hope for a lot of 2-1 games because there offense is going to be horrible. Think about it. J.D Drew will be on the DL by mid may early june for a paper cut. Like I said, Pappi is going to hit 220 if he is lucky. Ellsbury OBP is low 300’s which is the worst in the majors for a leadoff hitter. Everything will be ok, Sox and Rays will battlling it out for 2nd place.
darbycrash
This is a good move for Boston, it gives them a great def infield. Also Beltre has upside playing half his games at fenway.(.270 25 80)plus 40+ db 10 sb hitting 8th or 9th. It’s only a one yr 10m if they exerc. the 1m buyout. Beltre then really becomes a Fa again opening the chance for the sox to trade for an elite 1B next yr or at the deadline. I still wish the sox would sign Holliday even if that means paying the lux tax. They can raise tix prices in 2011 Sox fans will spend the money no matter what. They need another strong bat to give them more depth in their lineup in case Papi, Cameron, Drew and Beltre either get injured or don’t pan out. I also think they keep Lowell and trade Kotchman. I mean what does Castillo have left he’s can only play 2b( not well ), he’s a pinchhitter(singles)or a pinch runner with bad knees (20 out of 26) In that case should have kept Lugo at least you can stick Lugo out at ss haha. Lugo comment was a joke. Adrian Gonzo is a no brainner to me, even if it cost C.Kelly, C.Buch, and Ellsbury. (plus a few others) I would make sure in a trade this big they pry HBell too. Without another big bat all the def and Pitching will only get you the wildcard. The Yanks still look better. Add Holliday keep the prospects see and wait for the trading deadline. Plus it will give Ellsbury and Clay Buch to add value, and maybe Lars Anderson just was injured last yr. Then SD will wish they moved quicker. Also Han Ram contract ballons in 2011 I rather get him back, by then it will be time for him to switch to 3b or of. How will the sox be able to afford Beckett and Vmart after the season? I know Papi and Lowell as well as Lugo will be off the books(inc Papelbon). Beckett will want 5yr/18m per and VMart at 4/16m with an option yr. Any thoughts?
OhioSox
Great deal by the Sox. Best move so far this off-season
dong
Seriously, doesn’t the fact that a Boras client signed for so little clue you in that not even he, as delusional as he is, has no faith in this guy.
OhioSox
I wouldn’t say a one year 10 million dollar contract is “so little”
OhioSox
I wouldn’t say a one year 10 million dollar contract is “so little”
dong
Seriously, doesn’t the fact that a Boras client signed for so little clue you in that not even he, as delusional as he is, has no faith in this guy.
bobmac
i don’t expect anyone to care but I think Beltre will be an ok add to the sox,Nothing drastic but a nice dude to have around.Go red.
cheez13
I wouldn’t say best move of the off-season but a solid move. Low risk, upgrade defensively and if he hits better than last year then its a plus because they didn’t get alot out of that spot last year. The Sox should be a better defensive team than last year for sure.
To the Phils fan that is so happy with Polanco being a perfect #2 hitter. I don’t think he will hit #2, Victorino will stay in the 2 hole. Polanco will bat 7th.
Killer of Ignorance
So Beltre turned down 3 and 4 yr. deals to sign with Boston for 1 yr. at 9 mil. and an option at 5 mil. Who floated this story out there? Scott Boras? Yeah, riiiiiighttt.
Alex 20
It makes sense if the contracts being offered were along the lines of 3/25MM or 4/32MM which would seem likely given the Polanco/Figgins signings and the current marketplace. Beltre from earlier reports (and previously earned salary) was looking for 10MM+ over 4 years. Given that the economy/marketplace for his services was not at that level he can now go out and prove what he’s worth and hope for a better offer next year.
Perhaps that market isn’t there next year but it saves face for his agent and his ego.
Alex 20
It makes sense if the contracts being offered were along the lines of 3/25MM or 4/32MM which would seem likely given the Polanco/Figgins signings and the current marketplace. Beltre from earlier reports (and previously earned salary) was looking for 10MM+ over 4 years. Given that the economy/marketplace for his services was not at that level he can now go out and prove what he’s worth and hope for a better offer next year.
Perhaps that market isn’t there next year but it saves face for his agent and his ego.
yahoo-T35PO6YA5IMLDNRJAIAKBJZWLM
Assuming Beltre can continue to provide 10-15 runs above replacement at 3B, and that he can just be an average offensive player, this looks like a good move for the Red Sox; short commitment (one year) and not a ton of money ($10 million, minimum — $9 million for 2010, plus the $1 million buyout for 2011). The one thing that weirds me out about this is Beltre’s apparent insistence on including a $5 million player option for 2011. The fact that Beltre wanted that clause suggests he doesn’t have a ton of confidence in his ability to surge back to his prior level of productivity (or anything remotely approaching that level). Why would Beltre want the $5 million option for 2011 unless he was worried he might not be able to get anything better next offseason? Sort of weird.
ArmchairGM
Actually, I’d bet it was the Red Sox that insisted that option was there to drop the AAV to $7MM for luxury tax purposes.
ArmchairGM
Actually, I’d bet it was the Red Sox that insisted that option was there to drop the AAV to $7MM for luxury tax purposes.
Alex 20
Not too strange considering he’s passing up guaranteed money in excess of $20MM. This is a security blanket in case the unthinkable happens and he gets a bad injury he doesn’t have to regret (as much) the money left on the table.
Alex 20
Not too strange considering he’s passing up guaranteed money in excess of $20MM. This is a security blanket in case the unthinkable happens and he gets a bad injury he doesn’t have to regret (as much) the money left on the table.
yahoo-T35PO6YA5IMLDNRJAIAKBJZWLM
Assuming Beltre can continue to provide 10-15 runs above replacement at 3B, and that he can just be an average offensive player, this looks like a good move for the Red Sox; short commitment (one year) and not a ton of money ($10 million, minimum — $9 million for 2010, plus the $1 million buyout for 2011). The one thing that weirds me out about this is Beltre’s apparent insistence on including a $5 million player option for 2011. The fact that Beltre wanted that clause suggests he doesn’t have a ton of confidence in his ability to surge back to his prior level of productivity (or anything remotely approaching that level). Why would Beltre want the $5 million option for 2011 unless he was worried he might not be able to get anything better next offseason? Sort of weird.
wine club
Thank you, thank you, Adrian looks like he’ll stay in San Diego….good news for baseball fans based on the west coast.
wine club
Thank you, thank you, Adrian looks like he’ll stay in San Diego….good news for baseball fans based on the west coast.
dugoutdog
My guess is that the $5m option year was more the Sox than Beltre’s idea, with similar charting to their Lackey you-owe-us-a-cheap-year-if-you-get-injured clause. Under nearly every circumstance, Beltre is going to walk after one year of moonshots over the monster. However, a second-year at a discount also protects him in case he has another testicular accident, or the economy remains sluggish. Perhaps Boras’ lack of confidence in the US economy is showing…
dugoutdog
My guess is that the $5m option year was more the Sox than Beltre’s idea, with similar charting to their Lackey you-owe-us-a-cheap-year-if-you-get-injured clause. Under nearly every circumstance, Beltre is going to walk after one year of moonshots over the monster. However, a second-year at a discount also protects him in case he has another testicular accident, or the economy remains sluggish. Perhaps Boras’ lack of confidence in the US economy is showing…
dugoutdog
It’s now just a matter of where for Lowell. I hope a team like StL has their ears to the ground and can wrangle Lowell and a lot of cash from the Sox come late February. While he may almost be an AL-type third baseman who needs to DH once or twice a week, Lowell would give the Cards an amazing three-four-five behind Pujols and Hollidaysauce. Of course if he has to stay in the AL i’d expect the Angels to try and outbid Texas for him.
101andcounting
uh, wouldn’t Ludwick be batting fifth? For the record, I’d love it if the Cards got Lowell. Lee and Ramirez will put so many of those screaming line drives down the third base line, he’ll be crying for Theo to bring him back to the AL so he won’t have to field anymore.
101andcounting
uh, wouldn’t Ludwick be batting fifth? For the record, I’d love it if the Cards got Lowell. Lee and Ramirez will put so many of those screaming line drives down the third base line, he’ll be crying for Theo to bring him back to the AL so he won’t have to field anymore.
dugoutdog
It’s now just a matter of where for Lowell. I hope a team like StL has their ears to the ground and can wrangle Lowell and a lot of cash from the Sox come late February. While he may almost be an AL-type third baseman who needs to DH once or twice a week, Lowell would give the Cards an amazing three-four-five behind Pujols and Hollidaysauce. Of course if he has to stay in the AL i’d expect the Angels to try and outbid Texas for him.
Freak
i wonder if the red sox have enough corner infielders yet……………..
Freak
i wonder if the red sox have enough corner infielders yet……………..
jdkladsjl
Def hate boston! Im an A’s fan and this pisses me off. Knowing that the A’s were in the talks with beltre. I hope this means Miggie may be heading back to Oakland. All i can do is hope.
jdkladsjl
Def hate boston! Im an A’s fan and this pisses me off. Knowing that the A’s were in the talks with beltre. I hope this means Miggie may be heading back to Oakland. All i can do is hope.
websoulsurfer
I wonder what the Red Sox will do with Lowell. With Beltre at 3rd and Big Papi at DH, I don’t see where he can fit in that lineup.
Freak
On the days Varitek is catching here is what the Red Sox are looking at for 1B, 3B, and DH: Beltre, Youkilis, V. Martinez, Kotchman, Ortiz, Lowell.
All of those guys could be starters on a lot of teams. The Red Sox are really smart….
Freak
On the days Varitek is catching here is what the Red Sox are looking at for 1B, 3B, and DH: Beltre, Youkilis, V. Martinez, Kotchman, Ortiz, Lowell.
All of those guys could be starters on a lot of teams. The Red Sox are really smart….
Alex 20
The first thing to figure out is what is Lowell’s actual value? I think he’s worth more to them as a backup at 3MM (eating the 9MM) then trading him for either other garbage or to just dump 9 of the 12MM. What complicates things is that 3MM easily becomes 6MM if they are over the luxury tax. I think it depends on ownerships $$$ commitment. I wouldn’t trade him given how little he’s worth in a trade and how high his upside could be.
Alex 20
The first thing to figure out is what is Lowell’s actual value? I think he’s worth more to them as a backup at 3MM (eating the 9MM) then trading him for either other garbage or to just dump 9 of the 12MM. What complicates things is that 3MM easily becomes 6MM if they are over the luxury tax. I think it depends on ownerships $$$ commitment. I wouldn’t trade him given how little he’s worth in a trade and how high his upside could be.
DickAlmighty
Lowell fits nowhere in that lineup.
But that’s the beauty of being Boston; you, like the Yankees, can afford to pay a guy $12 million a year to be a corner-infield backup. Red Sox fans should never complain about the Yankees “buying a World Series.” When you can afford to pay Mike Lowell $12 million for a season to ride pine, you got no right to complain.
Also, for all of the people saying: “Another smart signing by Boston,” let’s not forget that Theo makes these smart signings (Scutaro and Beltre) to cover up dumb signings (Lugo and Lowell). He hits about .500-.600 on his transactions, which isn’t all that great for a GM with his resources.
DickAlmighty
Lowell fits nowhere in that lineup.
But that’s the beauty of being Boston; you, like the Yankees, can afford to pay a guy $12 million a year to be a corner-infield backup. Red Sox fans should never complain about the Yankees “buying a World Series.” When you can afford to pay Mike Lowell $12 million for a season to ride pine, you got no right to complain.
Also, for all of the people saying: “Another smart signing by Boston,” let’s not forget that Theo makes these smart signings (Scutaro and Beltre) to cover up dumb signings (Lugo and Lowell). He hits about .500-.600 on his transactions, which isn’t all that great for a GM with his resources.
websoulsurfer
I wonder what the Red Sox will do with Lowell. With Beltre at 3rd and Big Papi at DH, I don’t see where he can fit in that lineup.
atlrbls
Beltre signed for one year so he can have a big contract year next season. He will thrive in the sox lineup and short porch down the lines. 300 25 90 for 10 mil good snag.
YankeesFan4Life
300 batting average?
rofl
YankeesFan4Life
300 batting average?
rofl
atlrbls
Beltre signed for one year so he can have a big contract year next season. He will thrive in the sox lineup and short porch down the lines. 300 25 90 for 10 mil good snag.
YankeesFan4Life
This means Varitek is no longer in the everyday lineup, which is good news for the sox.
1) Ellsbury CF
2) Pedroia 2B
3) Youkilis 1B
4) Martinez C
5) Ortiz DH
6) Beltre 3B
7) Drew RF
8) Cameron LF
9) Scutaro SS
I really hate to say it, but thats a solid lineup from top to bottom, no doubt.
I expect the Yankees to counter this in some way.
Either a small signing or possibly even big trade for a LF.
Deanezag
1. Varitek was already out of the everyday lineup before this move.
2. WHy do the Yankees have to counter? they already have a better team
strikethree
Agreed. The Yankees need to counter… Adrian Beltre?!
“Either a small signing or possibly even big trade for a LF.”
They would’ve done that with or without Beltre going to Boston.
Even if the Yanks don’t upgrade at LF, their lineup is still better than Boston’s lineup. Cameron is a good offensive weapon but not nearly as close offensively to Bay. Plus, Beltre is an average hitter when healthy. (He posted below average numbers last season)
strikethree
Agreed. The Yankees need to counter… Adrian Beltre?!
“Either a small signing or possibly even big trade for a LF.”
They would’ve done that with or without Beltre going to Boston.
Even if the Yanks don’t upgrade at LF, their lineup is still better than Boston’s lineup. Cameron is a good offensive weapon but not nearly as close offensively to Bay. Plus, Beltre is an average hitter when healthy. (He posted below average numbers last season)
Deanezag
1. Varitek was already out of the everyday lineup before this move.
2. WHy do the Yankees have to counter? they already have a better team
YankeesFan4Life
This means Varitek is no longer in the everyday lineup, which is good news for the sox.
1) Ellsbury CF
2) Pedroia 2B
3) Youkilis 1B
4) Martinez C
5) Ortiz DH
6) Beltre 3B
7) Drew RF
8) Cameron LF
9) Scutaro SS
I really hate to say it, but thats a solid lineup from top to bottom, no doubt.
I expect the Yankees to counter this in some way.
Either a small signing or possibly even big trade for a LF.
quintjs
Lee for Lester and Lowell. hmm.
With Lester’s contract, performance and history in Boston he is about the least likely player to be traded in baseball. Strasburg for Alex Cora is more likely.
Lee may be the better pitcher, but Lester is easily the better value. Ask any GM if they would rather have Lee for 1 year plus 2 draft picks or Lester for the next 4 years with a club option for a 5th (cheap club optiont too). 31 out of the 30gms would take Lester.
John Farrell spoke in an organsation meeting in 2007 before Lester annouced himself that he was against trading Lester for Santana for crying out loud.
Beltre signing has nothing to do with Gonzalez. If the Sox can sign Beltre as an upgrade over Lowell I am pretty sure they can and would trade for Gonzalez to force out Ortiz or something. Ortiz is gone after this year anyway. And Gonzalez won’t be traded until mid-year at the earliest. Pretty sure the Sox can go 2 months with Martinez/ Gonzalez/ Youkilis/ Ortiz/ Beltre – plus one of those players would probably be traded away to clear room for Gonzalez. Nothing to stop the Sox bring in Gonzalez and shipping Ortiz off to another AL team looking for a DH boost down the stretch.
To me, this seems like a value all around signing for the Red Sox. Sign the guy to an affordable deal, have him play great defense, hopefully provide some work with the bat, he leaves, collect draft pick(s).
mrjjbond
Actually there is something stopping the Sox from trading Ortiz, his 10-5 rights.
K Man
Or the thing preventing a Papi trade is he has vitually zero value to anyone else. Sox fans turn a blind eye to his previous indiscressions with cheating and think he did it in Miiny (hitting 18 hr’s/year) and not Boston (40 hr’s/year).
Reading posts from Sox fans thinking Papi can “get back to 35-120” are laughable. We are witnessing the difference between old players that were on junk still being great (see Clemens, Bonds) and those that are old and now off hte junk (see Papi, Giambi). Once off drugs, these guys dont age well.
Poor Papi.. Papi, did you use PED’s???….. “me no understanda da english”.
mrjjbond
You are aware that he finished the season with 28 HR’s and 99 RBI right? Almost all of that was done after June 1st last season, if he’s able to hit like he did after June 1st for next season, 35HR’s and 120 RBI are not out of teh question, although I personally feel like he will be closer to 30-100 if he’s playing full time. Personally I don’t see Papi playing much against lefties next year.
mrjjbond
Actually there is something stopping the Sox from trading Ortiz, his 10-5 rights.
quintjs
Lee for Lester and Lowell. hmm.
With Lester’s contract, performance and history in Boston he is about the least likely player to be traded in baseball. Strasburg for Alex Cora is more likely.
Lee may be the better pitcher, but Lester is easily the better value. Ask any GM if they would rather have Lee for 1 year plus 2 draft picks or Lester for the next 4 years with a club option for a 5th (cheap club optiont too). 31 out of the 30gms would take Lester.
John Farrell spoke in an organsation meeting in 2007 before Lester annouced himself that he was against trading Lester for Santana for crying out loud.
Beltre signing has nothing to do with Gonzalez. If the Sox can sign Beltre as an upgrade over Lowell I am pretty sure they can and would trade for Gonzalez to force out Ortiz or something. Ortiz is gone after this year anyway. And Gonzalez won’t be traded until mid-year at the earliest. Pretty sure the Sox can go 2 months with Martinez/ Gonzalez/ Youkilis/ Ortiz/ Beltre – plus one of those players would probably be traded away to clear room for Gonzalez. Nothing to stop the Sox bring in Gonzalez and shipping Ortiz off to another AL team looking for a DH boost down the stretch.
To me, this seems like a value all around signing for the Red Sox. Sign the guy to an affordable deal, have him play great defense, hopefully provide some work with the bat, he leaves, collect draft pick(s).
ronnyronron9
RosterbatorExtaordinaire;
That was a huge waste of your time. Lester would be a part of no deal unless the sox were getting a top ten player in baseball who was affordable for at least as many years as he is.
I did like your logic about A Gonzalez. You did well removing teams from the equation for various reasons. However, with that trade proposal for Lee, I wonder if you only came to the mariners conclusion b/c of your clear bias towards your team.
dream on
ronnyronron9
RosterbatorExtaordinaire;
That was a huge waste of your time. Lester would be a part of no deal unless the sox were getting a top ten player in baseball who was affordable for at least as many years as he is.
I did like your logic about A Gonzalez. You did well removing teams from the equation for various reasons. However, with that trade proposal for Lee, I wonder if you only came to the mariners conclusion b/c of your clear bias towards your team.
dream on
TwinsVet
I still don’t see where the Sox expect to pick up Bay’s lost production. And Ortiz is clearly declining – his early slump last year could well be repeated or worse.
The Sox have improved their rotation, but taken a blow to the offense. This Beltre deal appears like a half-measure.
msisto
A full season of Victor, a better hitting SS, all-around better team defense and an improved pitching staff can go a long way. It’s not sexy, but run prevention is just as crucial as run production.
TwinsVet
Sure. I’m not saying they’re going to be a worse team, just that their runs-per-game will probably decline.
Losing a marquee player like Bay and responding by picking up two less-than-premiere bats in Cameron and Beltre doesn’t seem particularly inspiring if I’m a Boston fan. Take away the Lackey signing, and you’d have to say it’s a pretty poor offseason for Theo.
msisto
But….They DID sign Lackey. You can’t judge an offseason on a pretend scenarios.
TwinsVet
Fair enough. But I’d like their offseason a whole lot better if they weren’t one move away from having a poor one.
msisto
I am most interested in how the trade deadline pans out. They didn’t part with anyone valuable, made many key prospects expendable, and acquired picks. We wont be able to really fairly grade this off-season until the middle of the summer. Of course based on player performance, but also on the moves they make and/or don’t make.
TwinsVet
I still don’t see where the Sox expect to pick up Bay’s lost production. And Ortiz is clearly declining – his early slump last year could well be repeated or worse.
The Sox have improved their rotation, but taken a blow to the offense. This Beltre deal appears like a half-measure.
John
Nice deal for the Red Sox. Beltre has a lot of upside at this price and (for the Red Sox anyway) limited downside cost. Beltre should do well at Fenway and build a case for the 3/45 or 4/48 deal he wants in 2011.
It’s nice when there’s a win-win deal in the mix.
CherryValley
c’mon lets get serious here red sox fans…the best thing the sox did was sign lackey…but losing your best hr and rbi guy and replacing him with old man cameron and his 150k’s and past his roided prime adrian beltre, not to mention a tiny guy who had his career year at shortstop at 34 or 35…and you think you’re going to the ws ?
you can throw out all the WAR and UZR numbers you want but this team doesnt have one scary hitter and if not for the utter domination of teams like baltimore (i think they only lost to them 3 times last year!!) this team couldnt sniff 90 wins even with the aces on the mound…
every starter with the exception of ellsbury and pedroia is over the age or 30 and in some cases pushing 35….this team will compete until the end because they can pound away at the likes of the orioles but in september, if a team like the mariners or rays and rangers can step it up, the only thing these creaky sox will be doing in october is applying for social security
John
You may want to take a gander at Bay’s K numbers for last year and Lowell’s UZR.
John
You may want to take a gander at Bay’s K numbers for last year and Lowell’s UZR.
Ryan
Oh what a difference it is to be a mid-small market fan. If the A’s or Twins would have signed Beltre to this deal it would have been the biggest move of their off season. But since it was the Red Sox, we can all sit around talking about how it is a “bargin” and try to figure out what they are going to do with their other former All Star 3rd baseman that they owe $12 mil to.
So the Sox developed 2 starters (Bucholtz and Lester) and 2 starting postion players (Ellsbury and Pedroia) out of their farm system. And we are supposed to believe that they are somehow different than then the Evil Empire? I don’t buy it.
LTDm206
You are forgetting about Youkilis. Also, Papelbon, Bard, Delcarmen, Masterson, Buccholz, and Lowrie.
Ryan
My bad on Youk.
But I was talking about starters, maybe Pap-boner should be included… but Delcarman and Lowrie? come on. Dime a dozen.
And Masterson doesn’t count anymore. He plays for Cleveland.
TheReal1231
Isn’t Masterson in Cleveland?
RedSoxDynasty
Don’t forget about Youk and the bullpen of Papelbon, Bard, and Delcarmen when mentioning homegrown players RYAN! Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Youk, Pedroia, and Papelbon are six hometown studs I would like any other team to match
RedSoxDynasty
Don’t forget about Youk and the bullpen of Papelbon, Bard, and Delcarmen when mentioning homegrown players RYAN! Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Youk, Pedroia, and Papelbon are six hometown studs I would like any other team to match
BoSoxSam
Yup. You’re right, the Red Sox have a lot of similarities to the Yankees; it’s a big difference from the Twins/A’s and the Sox, I agree. There still is a big difference between the Sox and Yanks, even if it is on a higher level though; while they both have the capability to go out and buy up the best FAs on the market each year, there is a difference between what the Yanks did last year, when they bought up three best FAs for over 400m, where, while they all did make sense, it was still admittedly a bit overkill. What of course bugged me most about it was the Teixeira deal, with Cashman basically guaranteeing they were out of that race, and then nabbing him for only a couple mm more than the Sox offered (there’s that similarity again though! The Sox were number 2 bidder, still big-market!). They just threw all their money at Sabathia and saw how much stuck, and then Burnett was almost an afterthought; “hey, we could use another pitcher. Hey look, this guy’s pretty good and he’s still available. Lets throw 5 years at him!”
Now. What I see different in the Sox’s offseason this year (in fact even the Yankees are being pretty tame) is that they knew their problems, and yet went with the flow of the market, not getting sucked into a deal with a lot of cash just because that seemed like the obvious choice. What I see as differences: Red Sox let Bay go. When was the last time the Yankees let any player coming off that kind of year go? Damon and Matsui had decent years but they were both old and fragile (besides Damon might still return). There were good reasons to let them go. Bay, whatever his faults, is a player deserving of at least those 4 years, 60m. What I see as the difference is the Yankees will spend whatever they have to to get that player they want (Sabathia). The Sox will stick to their guns, unless its a player they really feel will make a BIG difference (they raised their bid on Teixeira…of course look what that got them). Damon, Pedro, and Bay…all guys Epstein traded or let go because they wanted too much. The only reason Lackey and Beltre signed: they were willing to take down their price to sign with Boston. So while the Red Sox this year are working with the players that were interested in Boston, and letting go the player that clearly preferred the cash over the team, the Yankees give their players whatever they want so they’ll play for New York.
I dunno. It’s a subtle difference. I like the Red Sox style better because it’s more of a team that prefers loyalty, and guys who will be reasonable in their dealings. They won’t sell out and pay whatever is necessary to get that one player. I don’t care who you are, one player doesn’t make a team. How much did Mauer help the Twins? The Yankees got ARod, that seemed like the last nail in the coffin for the Sox…then the Sox won two World Series before the Yanks got one. The Yankees, as proved with ARod, Sabathia, Teixeira….will pay out the nose for that one special guy.
Hmmm. That was one LONG rambling post that didn’t really make much of a point….
BoSoxSam
Yup. You’re right, the Red Sox have a lot of similarities to the Yankees; it’s a big difference from the Twins/A’s and the Sox, I agree. There still is a big difference between the Sox and Yanks, even if it is on a higher level though; while they both have the capability to go out and buy up the best FAs on the market each year, there is a difference between what the Yanks did last year, when they bought up three best FAs for over 400m, where, while they all did make sense, it was still admittedly a bit overkill. What of course bugged me most about it was the Teixeira deal, with Cashman basically guaranteeing they were out of that race, and then nabbing him for only a couple mm more than the Sox offered (there’s that similarity again though! The Sox were number 2 bidder, still big-market!). They just threw all their money at Sabathia and saw how much stuck, and then Burnett was almost an afterthought; “hey, we could use another pitcher. Hey look, this guy’s pretty good and he’s still available. Lets throw 5 years at him!”
Now. What I see different in the Sox’s offseason this year (in fact even the Yankees are being pretty tame) is that they knew their problems, and yet went with the flow of the market, not getting sucked into a deal with a lot of cash just because that seemed like the obvious choice. What I see as differences: Red Sox let Bay go. When was the last time the Yankees let any player coming off that kind of year go? Damon and Matsui had decent years but they were both old and fragile (besides Damon might still return). There were good reasons to let them go. Bay, whatever his faults, is a player deserving of at least those 4 years, 60m. What I see as the difference is the Yankees will spend whatever they have to to get that player they want (Sabathia). The Sox will stick to their guns, unless its a player they really feel will make a BIG difference (they raised their bid on Teixeira…of course look what that got them). Damon, Pedro, and Bay…all guys Epstein traded or let go because they wanted too much. The only reason Lackey and Beltre signed: they were willing to take down their price to sign with Boston. So while the Red Sox this year are working with the players that were interested in Boston, and letting go the player that clearly preferred the cash over the team, the Yankees give their players whatever they want so they’ll play for New York.
I dunno. It’s a subtle difference. I like the Red Sox style better because it’s more of a team that prefers loyalty, and guys who will be reasonable in their dealings. They won’t sell out and pay whatever is necessary to get that one player. I don’t care who you are, one player doesn’t make a team. How much did Mauer help the Twins? The Yankees got ARod, that seemed like the last nail in the coffin for the Sox…then the Sox won two World Series before the Yanks got one. The Yankees, as proved with ARod, Sabathia, Teixeira….will pay out the nose for that one special guy.
Hmmm. That was one LONG rambling post that didn’t really make much of a point….
hawkny11
Good move Theo. Now, if Scutaro can make all the plays at SS, especially to his left, the Sox are much stronger in ther infield, defensively, than in 2009. This includes the catcher’s position with v-Mart behind the plate. Likewise, the subtraction of Bay and Baldelli, and the addition of Hermida and Cameron adds speed, defense and, IMHO, better OF hitting, overall, than last year. Contrary to some, I view Hermida as the regular LF’er with Cameron filling the role of every outfielder’s back up. Mike should get 350-400 ab’s baring serious injury to himself or to the other OF starters. Together, Hermida/Cameron should exceed the 2009 output of the Bay/Baldelli tandem both offensively and defensively. The only area left to be dealt with now is middle inning/late inning relief. At least one more strong reliever, perhaps a hard throwing lefty, will make the 2010 roster complete. Barring the impact of injuries, next year’s edition of the Sox can and should win at least 100 games, including a majority against TEE.
Chris
I guess their line up would look like this
CF- Jacoby Ellsbury
2B- Dustin Peodria
1B- Kevin Youkilis
DH- David Ortiz
3B- Adrian Beltre
C- Victor Martinez
LF- Mike Cameron
RF- J.D. Drew
SS- Marco Scutaro
Fenwaywalkoff
Do you think that Cameron will start in left fully or will Hermida start there and have Cameron the back-up and guy to rest the outfielders
metsarebeast
I think Big Papi should come off the bench have hermida start in left and cameron ur dh and have castillo pinch run
GO METS AND RANGERS
metsarebeast
I think Big Papi should come off the bench have hermida start in left and cameron ur dh and have castillo pinch run
GO METS AND RANGERS
K Man
i don’t see Papi and his .230 average in the 4 hole anymore…this isnt his drug induced days….the man is old and his declining bat speed and hand eye coordination are sure to keep him out of the 4 spot….
$1520532
Deleted.
$1520532
Deleted.
Hannibal_Lester
This is more likely:
LF – Jacoby Ellsbury – L
2B – Dustin Pedroia – R
C- Victor Martinez – S
1B – Kevin Youkilis – R
DH – David Ortiz – L
3B – Adrian Beltre – R
RF – JD Drew – L
CF – Mike Cameron – R
SS – Marco Scutaro – R
I could see Cameron and Beltre switching places, and obviously the lineup would be much different against lefties, with perhaps Ortiz on the bench and Lowell or Hermida taking his spot.
Hannibal_Lester
This is more likely:
LF – Jacoby Ellsbury – L
2B – Dustin Pedroia – R
C- Victor Martinez – S
1B – Kevin Youkilis – R
DH – David Ortiz – L
3B – Adrian Beltre – R
RF – JD Drew – L
CF – Mike Cameron – R
SS – Marco Scutaro – R
I could see Cameron and Beltre switching places, and obviously the lineup would be much different against lefties, with perhaps Ortiz on the bench and Lowell or Hermida taking his spot.
JerseyJohn32190
The Sox seem to be going in a different direction this year, building their team around pitching and defense. They let Bay walk to bring in Cameron, who is a defensive upgrade while being a slight downgrade offensively, they signed Lackey who is probably the best #3 starter in the league, and now they brought in one of the best defensive third baseman in baseball. Contrary to what most people think, Beltre put up some decent numbers while playing half his games in a pitcher park in Safeco. Now that he has the Monster in left for half his games, I could see something like .270/.330/.470 from him.
Super_Hero
Cameron is more than a slight downgrade offensively to Bay. Men lie, women lie, Numbers don’t.
Cameron is more like A BIG DOWNGRADE OFFENSIVELY.
m26
Why would the Phillies offer Beltre that contract when they just signed Polanco?
dylanp5030
it was obviously before the Polanco signing. Phillies were all about Beltre in the beginning of December, but was too pricey. It makes sense hearing this now.
m26
Why would the Phillies offer Beltre that contract when they just signed Polanco?
55saveslives
Who is Stephen Neal?? You mean THOMAS Neal?…umm NO we aren’t going to trade an upcoming star under team control for a broken down / overpaid grandpa
55saveslives
Who is Stephen Neal?? You mean THOMAS Neal?…umm NO we aren’t going to trade an upcoming star under team control for a broken down / overpaid grandpa
mrjjbond
A minor correction to Rosenthal’s article, if Beltre declines the club option, the Sox would be charged $3M for luxury tax purposes in 2011, not the $2M Rosenthal states. This is because the Sox would also be charged for the $1M buyout.
Overall the article is certainly a good read though.
mrjjbond
A minor correction to Rosenthal’s article, if Beltre declines the club option, the Sox would be charged $3M for luxury tax purposes in 2011, not the $2M Rosenthal states. This is because the Sox would also be charged for the $1M buyout.
Overall the article is certainly a good read though.
msisto
Wow.
msisto
Wow.
bigpupp
Sox scored the 3rd most runs in the AL last season, and were 55 runs better than the 4th best team. This season they will be getting a full season of Martinez and Scutaro (not to mention that Beltre is a better hitter than Lowell on nuetral sites). Needless to say, they are still a top 3 offensive team, but are now probably the best defensive and pitching team in MLB.
bigpupp
Sox scored the 3rd most runs in the AL last season, and were 55 runs better than the 4th best team. This season they will be getting a full season of Martinez and Scutaro (not to mention that Beltre is a better hitter than Lowell on nuetral sites). Needless to say, they are still a top 3 offensive team, but are now probably the best defensive and pitching team in MLB.
LawUSA87
I like this move perhaps because it is another low risk high reward type deal and at the very least he is a huge defensive upgrade over Lowell.
LawUSA87
I like this move perhaps because it is another low risk high reward type deal and at the very least he is a huge defensive upgrade over Lowell.
Brandon 19
Maybe someday you’ll respect the game of baseball and realize it’s not just about hitting home runs.
This deal, whether people like it or not, was an upgrade.
Brandon 19
Maybe someday you’ll respect the game of baseball and realize it’s not just about hitting home runs.
This deal, whether people like it or not, was an upgrade.
Roy Munson
How many guys will the red sox be paying this year for guys to play 3B/SS this yearMY count is 4 – Mike Lowell 13M, Adrian Beltre 9M, Julio Lugio9M, Scutarro 3M
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And all of them combine for less than Jeter/Arod… what does that say?
YanksFanSince78
That quality wins over quantity? Collectively, can you depend on 35-40 hrs from Lowell and/or Beltre?
Guest 202
As someone so aptly pointed out at the Boston Globe, the Red Sox have successfully created a $180mm version of the Minnesota Twins, only the twins have one or two potential HOF’s including several all stars. And let’s not forget many of them are young and in their primes. The Red Sox were successful in signing a bunch of over 30 players.
Not a single move by the Red Sox this offseason makes one iota of sense. They’ve improved only defensively, but as we’ve all seen on the Yanks, shoot even look at Matt Holiday’s dropped ball in the playoffs, even the proven players make catastrophic plays that effect a season in one game. Defensive in my opinion is overrated.
Sorry, but I am just telling it, like it is.
John
So you think the Twins have a pitching staff that as good as Boston’s? Interesting.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL…. all i can say to that. Dumbest post in MLBTR history!
ilikebaseball
Actually, you’re telling it like you think it is. There’s a difference.
Guest 202
As someone so aptly pointed out at the Boston Globe, the Red Sox have successfully created a $180mm version of the Minnesota Twins, only the twins have one or two potential HOF’s including several all stars. And let’s not forget many of them are young and in their primes. The Red Sox were successful in signing a bunch of over 30 players.
Not a single move by the Red Sox this offseason makes one iota of sense. They’ve improved only defensively, but as we’ve all seen on the Yanks, shoot even look at Matt Holiday’s dropped ball in the playoffs, even the proven players make catastrophic plays that effect a season in one game. Defensive in my opinion is overrated.
Sorry, but I am just telling it, like it is.
Russell210
This is great news for Yankee fans. The failure to sign an impact hitter of the Red Sox. Instead they are replacing the production of Bay with an overrated Beltre to possibly 2 years at 20 million. Total win for the Yankees.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
? and which Yankees outfielder do you think will hit better than .255/.390/.480 this season? And thats an overstatement for a scrub like Gardner…. I am not even going to begin to try to argue with someone who would say something this dumb…. Tim, Any way we can like moderate stupidity as well as vulgarity? I mean… Bay and Beltre first of all have NOTHING to do with each other… Beltre is replacing Lowell… Cameron could wind up being an upgrade over Bay in many offensive categories including average and stolen bases (as well as maintaining a nice high strikeout rate, but hey everyone has flaws).
Beltre is an enormous upgrade over an injured Lowell, and I think you will all be eating your words when he puts up a line of .275/.390/.500 with stellar D… He’s playing for a contract in a hitters ballpark… Common sense there.
Lackey is an enormous upgrade who takes a lot of pressure off Dice-K, Wake and Buchholz… nuff said.
Scutaro is another big upgrade over injured Lowrie or Alex Gonzalez (though AGon’s glove is real nice). He may struggle a bit since hes a gap hitter, but if he can figure out how to drive the ball to the deep parts of center field in Fenway and pull balls off the Monster, he will be fine. Either way Upgrade…. This team is exponentially better than last year and I am willing to put 100 bucks down against anyone with a paypal account that they are 100 game winners this year. A dollar a win. Whatcha say?
Russell210
I disagree. Beltre was never much of a threat. Adrian Beltre has been getting on base at a .300-.320 clip. That is terrible. A .255 hitter with a .304 on base percentage? $20 million for that? Hah! He provides defense and the occasional homerun, totally not worth the money he was paid. Theo once again fails to deliver.
Brett Gardner isn’t costing the Yankees Mike Cameron money. He provides stellar defense and if he can get on base at the Cameron clip (.330-.340, which is definitely achievable) then there is no reason why he can’t be just as much of an asset. The Yankees have gotten younger and still maintain to be better.
For pitching we have dice-k the walk machine who hates Boston, a 9 million year old Wakefield coming off an injury season, the Bucholz that was supposed to shine but then stole someones laptop and got put in detention, a good Lackey, and a Beckett which is going to cost big bucks to keep around. Oh yea, that sounds like a promising future.
Congrats on breaking the luxury tax threshold! Think the Sox will still claim poverty? Or continue to be roided underdogs?
You’re delusional. Pretty boys like waxed-eyebrow Ellsbury or Nancy Drew over there in right can’t save this team.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
LOL. Ok. let me go 1 by 1 for this. Because something tells me this is going to be a long post to educate an uneducated fan.
1. Beltre’s stats – Beltre has hit well when he did not play at Safeco. His stats are quite skewed and his lifetime line got distorted by that. He will get back up to the .360+ OBP at Fenway especially with one of the better hitting coaches in the game working with him and the patience of guys like Youk and Drew rubbing off on him. Not to mention that you are insulting a 1 year deal? LOL LOL LOL… for 9MM for the best defensive third baseman arguably of all time? Thats a joke… right?
2. Gardner? You are really going to argue this point? Once again a GREAT move by Theo for a guy with some pop playing outstanding defense… Again, one of the great CF of all time in Cameron… I don’t quite understand your argument. Ellsbury is your comparison to Gardner. They are the left fielders. If you were educated and did a little reading you would understand that.
3. Pitching…. OK REALLY? Now you are just making yourself look dumb. You are telling me that Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Vazquez, Gaudin/Chaimberlain is better than Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Dice-K, Wake/Buchholz? Are you smoking crack? Please share. Burnett is on and off. Pettite has never really been better than a 4.00 era guy in the AL… Chaimberlain sucks as a starter and most scouts feel his control will never come around, he belongs in the pen and will go down as Cashman’s biggest screwup of a player… and he’s had a few, and Gaudin/Mitre ect… is laughable.
3. Likely, the Sox will slightly pass the luxury tax threshold. However the Yankees have 20 something identified steroid users while the Sox have POTENTIALLY what? 4-6? None of which were being tipped off by Fehr… So if you want to go the steroid route, where do you want to start? Clemens? Knoblauch? A-Rod? Giambi? All of whom used steroids for a good part of their careers while with the Yankees. FYI even McNamee (whos a douche, but I don’t think he’s a liar) says that his suspected use started with the Jays and ended a few years in with the Yanks. You don’t want to start this argument unless you want to bash your own team.
4. Pretty Boys- This coming from a team that forces all of its players to shave its facial hair? And wouldn’t sign Manny Ramirez because they didn’t like his look with his dreads n such that he refused to cut? Sox meanwhile had the whole cowboy up thing goin on as well as almost half the team wearing constant facial hair and being the furthest things from pretty boys you could ask for… And since when is one of the most rugged players in baseball (jd drew) a pretty boy? I’d like to know where you came up with that one… I dont get it.
Talk about delusion…. I dont even have it in me to argue with someone who would dare write things so dumb with their name on it…. Ouch.
Russell210
I have clearly upset you tot he point that you are delusional. No comment.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
About which part am I wrong? please tell me? about Beltre’s great team friendly contract? about the Yankees inferior and quite probably not even top 5 pitching staff? or about the Yankees forcing all of their players to be pretty boys? which parts am I wrong about? This site is about arguing, and you have yet to make a valid point since your first post… all i’m asking for is one.
BaseballFan0707
If we’re talking in terms of injury risk, then the Sox are in trouble, since Lackey and Dice K have both had injury problems recently. Buccholz is unproven, as well.The Yankees do have one of the better rotations in the league, and yes, I would say Top 5. Recall that Vazquez pitched with an injury, causing his numbers to sag, when he was last with the Yanks. In fact, since that time, he has never posted a FIP above 4.06, and his FIP has more or less been on the decline since then.However, the Red Sox also have a top 5 rotation as well, PROVIDED that Buccholz pans out and Lackey stays healthy. Dice-K is a 5-inning pitcher that gets out of the game before any damage can be done to him. But when you have Lester-Beckett-Lackey going 1-2-3, you have a top 5 rotation. I think you’re being a bit unfair to the Yanks’s pitching staff.A-Rod did not use steroids with the Yankees. He used them with the Rangers. I’m not defending steroids, but if you are going to make a claim, don’t make a false one. And don’t sit there and tell me that’s what they want you to believe, because, unless you can show me a legit report saying that A-Rod has done them during his tenure with the Yanks, you cannot make that claim.
And, to be honest, the whole clean-cut rule the Yanks have does not make their players pretty boys. Catholic High Schools all forbid facial hair. Does that make all of those boys “pretty boys?” It’s simply a rule that the Yanks see as important.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Lol by the same standard keep in mind our entire staff except lester was hurt last year… Truth be told, so what? Our entire staff pitched better hurt then vazquez and he stuggled the same with the chisox and more with the dbacks the following year (2005?)
Dice-k from all reports is in better shape than he’s ever been and finished last year with an era lower than 3 in his final 5 or 6 starts or whatever while wake was an allstar in the first half.
Buchholz finished the season with something like 11 of his last 13 qs… I’d say that’s pretty proven that he at least has what it takes to be the best #5 pitcher in baseball next season.
You don’t win on paper, that’s for sure, but on paper there’s no one whod argue the Sox have the best rotation in baseball going into next year.
Becketts on a contract year and when healthy last year he was top 3 in baseball. If he can stay healthy as he did in 07, he’s an elite starter with some of the best stuff in baseball. His curveball was awful in the 2nd half last year due to awful blisters. Beckett just doesn’t accept any excuses for himself. Lackey is a winner above all else. Even when he’s not that great he finds a way to win as he has put up a winning record every year.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Lol by the same standard keep in mind our entire staff except lester was hurt last year… Truth be told, so what? Our entire staff pitched better hurt then vazquez and he stuggled the same with the chisox and more with the dbacks the following year (2005?)
Dice-k from all reports is in better shape than he’s ever been and finished last year with an era lower than 3 in his final 5 or 6 starts or whatever while wake was an allstar in the first half.
Buchholz finished the season with something like 11 of his last 13 qs… I’d say that’s pretty proven that he at least has what it takes to be the best #5 pitcher in baseball next season.
You don’t win on paper, that’s for sure, but on paper there’s no one whod argue the Sox have the best rotation in baseball going into next year.
Becketts on a contract year and when healthy last year he was top 3 in baseball. If he can stay healthy as he did in 07, he’s an elite starter with some of the best stuff in baseball. His curveball was awful in the 2nd half last year due to awful blisters. Beckett just doesn’t accept any excuses for himself. Lackey is a winner above all else. Even when he’s not that great he finds a way to win as he has put up a winning record every year.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
What part of shaving facial hair is not “pretty boy” while keeping beards and being rugged as all hell does make them “pretty boys” thats all i’m saying.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
What part of shaving facial hair is not “pretty boy” while keeping beards and being rugged as all hell does make them “pretty boys” thats all i’m saying.
skoods
.255/.390/.480 sounds like a pretty decent line to me.
Super_Hero
“Cameron could wind up being an upgrade over Bay in many offensive categories including average and stolen bases…..”
LOLOLOL, there is no comparing Cameron and Bay. Cameron has better D but thats it, now cut it out. Did you know Bay had 13SB to Camerons 7SB? wts, Bay won’t be asked to run. Cameron can’t get on base to run. Cameron has a career .250 Avg. Bay, .280. Cameron never had a higher Avg then Bay in his career. What makes you think Cameron at 37 will all-of-sudden have better offensive numbers than Bay? There is a reason why Cameron is available every offseason.
lol u are too funny
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Bay usually does not hit .280… First of all. He’s usually around .260 in recent years. Secondly cameron can steal 20 if given chances and hit 20 homers. I’m saying “in some categories” I don’t mean overall
Super_Hero
Definitly not ones that count. the only offensive numbers. the only stat Cameron can be better at is 2B, 3B and SB (not last yr). what makes you think he didn’t have the chance to steal more than 7 last yr? With the space out at Citi, Bay HR will decrease but his Doubles will increase. So i’m not sure about that stat. Bottom line, Cameron is not an impact with his bat. I’ve seen him play. He will hit the cheapest 20 Hr you will ever see, most will be solo. He is no threat. not even on the base-pads.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
you are taking this the same as when I said I dont like the Yanks signing of Sabathia.
I am saying that Cameron has the “potential” to outplay Bay in many offensive categories and you named all of them except batting average.
I love Bay. He did great things for us. But Cameron at 2 years or Bay at 5? I’ll take Cameron any day of the week. I do NOT think that Cameron is a better offensive player than Bay overall, and I never said so.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
you are taking this the same as when I said I dont like the Yanks signing of Sabathia.
I am saying that Cameron has the “potential” to outplay Bay in many offensive categories and you named all of them except batting average.
I love Bay. He did great things for us. But Cameron at 2 years or Bay at 5? I’ll take Cameron any day of the week. I do NOT think that Cameron is a better offensive player than Bay overall, and I never said so.
Super_Hero
Definitly not ones that count. the only offensive numbers. the only stat Cameron can be better at is 2B, 3B and SB (not last yr). what makes you think he didn’t have the chance to steal more than 7 last yr? With the space out at Citi, Bay HR will decrease but his Doubles will increase. So i’m not sure about that stat. Bottom line, Cameron is not an impact with his bat. I’ve seen him play. He will hit the cheapest 20 Hr you will ever see, most will be solo. He is no threat. not even on the base-pads.
TradeYouk
Bay has hit under 280 only once in his career before last year, and that was his 1 terrible season where he was playing through injuries.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And you think he will replicate those numbers in CitiField? Because I can name 10 well respected analysts who would disagree with you. he also hit a career high homers in Fenway… If anything, a righty pull hitter’s average should go UP at a park like Fenway, not down. This speaks nothing of the knee, quad and shoulder concerns that kept every team except the Mets and Sox away from Jason Bay…
Once again, I love the guy and the Mets are my NL team. I’m simply saying on a 5 year deal, 16MM a season seems pretty steep for a guy who can hit between .250 and .280. To his credit, he has developed much better plate patience in the past 2 years being around guys like Youk and Drew, but the same will hold true for Beltre and Cameron. I’m saying the skill doesn’t warrant the deal that was desired.
TradeYouk
Bay was always a patient hitter. He had 3 100 walk seasons before last season and 2 seasons of OBPs higher than last years. Youk and Drew had no impact on Bay’s approach.
It probably helped his walk total that pitchers were never afraid of the person batting behind Bay, but hanging out with Youk probably did not.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Bay averaged almost 2 pitches more per at bat last season last I checked. Check your stats.
TradeYouk
Let’s pretend for a second you are correct and he took more pitches than ever this year. It did not result in his highest season OBP and only resulted in 10 more walks than his career high. That is negligible difference. Now let’s look to see if you are actually Correct. Jason Bay Pitches Per Plate Appearance for his career:
2009- 3.99
2008 with Pitt- 4.14
2008 with Bos- 3.88
2007- 3.89
2006- 4.02
2005- 3.87
Not quite 2 more pitches per at bat than the year before.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Then it dropped dramatically since the allstar break. Along with his average.
TradeYouk
Jason Bay 2009 Splits:
Pre-All-Star— 260/380/527
Post AllStar— 277/389/550
If he actually saw dramatically less pitches after the all star break, which I doubt, it was a helpful change of strategy, as his numbers were slightly better across the board.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
I don’t have access to my pc atm, or I’d check myself
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And you think he will replicate those numbers in CitiField? Because I can name 10 well respected analysts who would disagree with you. he also hit a career high homers in Fenway… If anything, a righty pull hitter’s average should go UP at a park like Fenway, not down. This speaks nothing of the knee, quad and shoulder concerns that kept every team except the Mets and Sox away from Jason Bay…
Once again, I love the guy and the Mets are my NL team. I’m simply saying on a 5 year deal, 16MM a season seems pretty steep for a guy who can hit between .250 and .280. To his credit, he has developed much better plate patience in the past 2 years being around guys like Youk and Drew, but the same will hold true for Beltre and Cameron. I’m saying the skill doesn’t warrant the deal that was desired.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And not to mention in 2 years he will wish he signed with an AL team so he could DH quite often.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And not to mention in 2 years he will wish he signed with an AL team so he could DH quite often.
TradeYouk
Bay has hit under 280 only once in his career before last year, and that was his 1 terrible season where he was playing through injuries.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
And camerons price and years vs bays price and years. Ill take cameron any day of the week.
Russell210
This is great news for Yankee fans. The failure to sign an impact hitter of the Red Sox. Instead they are replacing the production of Bay with an overrated Beltre to possibly 2 years at 20 million. Total win for the Yankees.
coltrane3000
This allows the Tigers the opportunity to sign Beltre next offseason, as Boras has a good relationship with Detroit, Inge’s contract will be over and there are no internal 3B candidates in Detroit’s farm system. I wonder why the Orioles didn’t try harder to sign Beltre, unless he wasn’t interested in playing for them.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Would be a good signing for the Tigers, however his cost will be too high if he performs well this season. You would have to beat the Sox 10-11MM, whatever it is his contract could meet. That would be steep for Beltre in Detroits rebuilding mind if you ask me. But I can’t say I know what rebuilding or “bridge” approach the Tigers will go with.
markjsunz
The sox can do a right hand left hand DH with Lowell and big Papi. Beltre has a great glove,
after hitting close to 50 home runs his last year as a dodger, Seattle gave him a hugh contract. Of course once he got off the roids his offense went south.
YanksFanSince78
“Beltre is an enormous upgrade over an injured Lowell, and I think you will all be eating your words when he puts up a line of .275/.390/.500 with stellar D… He’s playing for a contract in a hitters ballpark… Common sense there”.
——————–
Common sense is taking facts and trends and making an honest assement of “truths” and then making relatively safe predictions. Beltre has posted an OBP above .330 once since 2000, and that was during his amazing career year in 2004 when he hit .334/388 w/ 48 hrs. Since then he hasn’t come anywhere close to .350. I like the deal for the Sox and I think Beltre will do find, howver, let’s not be revisionist and let’s not pretend that Beltre is going to step out of a Boston phonebooth and come out as anyone other than Adrian Beltre w/ the career sub .350 OBP.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Look at his stats on the road YanksFan. Since i’m guessing you are too lazy to check them…. Here you go. He came into his own right before going to seattle. Here you go
.280/.325/.400… On a BAD year. He will improve this year upon that, which is a much more realistic evaluation of how he will do in Boston, if not better. Hence my prediction of around .280/.350/.480-.500
Lastly, things change (as we saw with Bay’s OBP and slugging) being around better players and a winning team. He gained a reason to play his heart out as he did earlier in his career. Beltre is in a similar situation. Seattle WAS a fairly weak team during his time there. They were nowhere near as bad as the Pirates, but their chances at the wild card and division were never very strong with the greatness of the angels in front of them.
If you want further proof… Look at hittracker. hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2009_4957&…
He is a pull hitter with power to all fields… He’s going to thrive @ Fenway and especially thrive playing in a division with all hitters ballparks.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Hey YanksFanSince78… Just a quick fact I thought I should point out. Remember how I was talking about the presence of patient hitters such as Youkilis and Drew benefiting the entire team and their plate patience, and I expect the same would be true for Beltre?
There is another name I thought of that had this same influence for the Angels named Bobby Abreu on Torii Hunter. Go look at what the addition of Bobby Abreu did for Hunter. Hunter had NEVER had an OBP over .344 previous to 2009 when he logged a .366 OBP and had his batting average raise about 20 points higher than it has ever been. The right influences definitely contribute to excellence, regardless of age as Hunter is 34, not far off from Beltre.
If you still disagree, look at your own team. You had a lazy 2nd baseman who was one of the worst 2nd basemen in baseball in 2008 (defensively) and a shortstop who’s range was very questionable and who everyone including Yankees fans thought may not hang at the SS position much longer if he kept up the sub-par play.
Enter Mark Teixeira… Now both are Gold Glove or Gold Glove worthy infielders… Its not coincidence and Teix can’t save every misguided throw or help jeter with his range or Cano with his laziness. However, his presence, intensity and stellar defense rubbed off on the entire infield.
Beltre will follow a similar pattern as Torii hunter regaining a stroke that can’t be projected looking at his Safeco Field stats. Thats my main point. And at 9MM, if we get that kind of improvement from Beltre, who is equally talented both offensively and even more talented defensively, 9MM is the deal of this offseason.
Guest 253
Where as he’s been at the roomy Safeco Field for the latter half of a decade and Dodger Stadium, not Fenway where a hitter with his swing excels but coming from a Yanks fan I don’t expect anything more.
FenwayFaithfulDevilsFan
Collectively…. easily.
From Beltre, we will see. He has hit as many as 48… wouldn’t shock me if he rocked 30+ this year @ Fenway. At the least i’m expecting an increase in extra base hits, which will also raise his slugging %. But Jeter/Arod or Beltre Scutaro? Of course Jeter/Arod will outproduce. The combination of the 4 guys mentioned though? I don’t know they can out produce Lowell Beltre Scutaro AND Lugo…. Thats a stretch. However its a nonissue since neither Lowell or Lugo will likely be playing in a Sox uniform.
longbeachmike
im pretty sure beltre was working out with a-roid and bonds. i’d say right around the time he smashed 48 homers in a (suprise!) contract year. a couple of years of balco and you’re set for life. you and your 14th cousin. i’m not sold on the difference of safeco field and fenway being 10 homers and 20 rbi’s. beltre will hit his 25 homers and knock in his 80 rbi’s but i’m thinking 35/100 is beyond his reach at this stage.
longbeachmike
beckett sucks. also, beltre hit 48 homers in a contract year, probably while he was bathing in balco twice a night. i like beltre, i think he’s has got a quality glove and he’s an impact hitter but 30+ dingers and 100 rbi are out of his reach. he’ll get his 25/80. i’d be happy with that
J M
yall know damn well that if any free-agent passed up more money from the Mets to play somewhere else..Omar and the mets would’ve been roasted as a place that no one wants to play for….
now the fact that he turned the Phillies down is a non-story
smh
AkronHammer
if i was Beltre… I would have tooken the deal from the Phillies for 3/24m cause they r gonna be a playoff contending team for a looooonnnnggg time…Beltre made bad mistake…id rather get payed a couple million less and go on a team i know is going to win and go to the playoffs because in the divison the Red Sox are in you never know…..
redsox22
You never know whats going to happen in any division so that is a horrible reason. The Red Sox have consistently won and made the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 years in that division. Freak injuries happen every year and not every team we expect to contend will actually contend. To say he should have taken the Phillies offer because of the amount of years and money involved is something you can argue but you can’t say that the Phillies will for sure make the playoffs and contend next year. No team is certain for anything at this point thats why they play the game on the field not on paper.
AkronHammer
BAD SIGNNG!
AkronHammer
BAD SIGNNG!
Alldaybaseball
He should have taken the Arbitration. But he may be looking for the future because Fenway is easier park to hit homeruns in compared to Safeco Field.
Alldaybaseball
He should have taken the Arbitration. But he may be looking for the future because Fenway is easier park to hit homeruns in compared to Safeco Field.
$1549951
Yippee, Beltre can field. Sox fans will need to remind themselves of that when he’s making gobs of meek outs vs. RHPs.
Kind of scary how feckless the Boston lineup looks at the moment.
$1549951
Yippee, Beltre can field. Sox fans will need to remind themselves of that when he’s making gobs of meek outs vs. RHPs.
Kind of scary how feckless the Boston lineup looks at the moment.
johnksports
The Sox are certainly changing thier philosophy this winter. Not just by stressing defense so strongly but with the signings of Beltre and Cameron they have moved away from stressing OBP so much. Beltre is a flexible signing however and unless he is taking short money next winter he will likely leave and free them up to spend heavily next winter on that strong free agent class. So for the Red Sox it is defense and pitching- for this year at least. Stay tuned.
$1549951
I like Cameron, but Beltre marks a departure from stressing good baseball.
John
Adrian Beltre did hit more homeruns than Mike Lowell every year since 2005 with the exception of this year when he was hurt. He may never get back to the 48 homeruns but still could be very productive in Fenway