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Might as well…..
From Soto’s camp. Create your own economy 101.
Heyman out here doing Scott Boras’s bidding!
Probably correct but if there ends up being truth to it, this could be what creates a nightmare at the next MLBPA negotiations. Players love it under the theory that a high tide raises all boats but it’s not good for the league if only a couple of teams end up with the very best. Having a hard cap and floor spreads the talent around, which is best for the league. I’m thinking most of the owners will try to force a change. Present penalties have little effect on the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees.
Dewey: A salary cap is only good for the owners, not for the players and fans. The MLBPA will never agree to one, and the majority of owners have too much at stake to be willing to shut the game down for a full season or longer to fight for one.
How is a salary cap not good for fans? 3 of the 4 teams in the championship series were top 5 payroll teams and 6 of the 8 in the prior round were in the top 10 in payroll. As a fan it’s discouraging knowing that unless my team spends $250 mil plus in a year all I have is a pumchers chance of even sniffing the the WS. There probably won’t be a salary cap but higher fines and taking away more draft capital though to teams that are constantly above the luxury tax need to happen
or instead of depressing players salaries with a salary cap the other option is that the teams getting revenue sharing money could actually spend it on their roster
Dewey, how about teams/owners work out increases in revenue sharing instead of expecting the players to solve ownership’s problems?
Cap and floor. You need both. No more teams doing what Oakland is doing and what others have done and simply not spend at all. No more of that. A cap and a floor can ensure salaries stay high it just spreads out the talent from team to team which is exactly the problem.
And let’s not forget, out of the 30 owners 27 or 28 are multi billionaires who evidently like their money more than their fans and the team! They can all be more competitive.
Agree
In theory, I understand but if you take the NFL out of the equation, it works in the NBA. it has to be high enough and the owners would have to open their books for transparency/trust. The lack of trust is why the PA has been againat it. If their accountants agree and the floor and ceiling are established by percentages of shaded revenue, there is no reason for them not to agree.
GBS, see what I just wrote before reading your comment.
JSantoro: Data shows that salary cap leagues like the NBA, NFL, and NHL have no greater parity than MLB.
Perhaps the correct approach is to first implement a soft floor similar to the soft cap.
There’s no point until the cheap owners are required to abide to a floor.
In the meantime, it appears that as more and more MLB teams TV and streaming rights are taken over by the league, there may be a future where revenue sharing of all media rights becomes a reality and with it much of the financial differences between teams.
The NBA has a soft salary cap. It’s more like MLB.
The NFL and the NHL have hard salary caps. The NFL though is able to circumvent some of their salary cap issues to have dominant teams because owners exploit rookie contracts.
Ok, what about last year?
shared revenue. lol
Not sure where you’re getting your data from but just look at the Knicks. They got Hartensteinbecause his former club couldn’t pay him and then lost him the dam way. Having restrictions balances out the league provided your team is competitive to begin with.
Yes but MLB does the same with no arb eligibility at the beginning. Exclude NFL though because of fantasy/gambling. The money and roster size are so different. That said, something has to change. Japanese players now only to play on the west coast because traveling home is different. I also use the next CBA to also include a cost of living locker that balances out non-state tax and housing/living costs.
Unless teams share ALL revenue, including local TV money, that floor isn’t going to happen.
Okay. But who should they spend it on? Do we really need another era where the Jacoby Ellsbury’s and JD Drew’s of the world are racking up what would be 1/4 of a billion dollar contracts just so people can “feel” like the owners are spending in line with what fans, again, “feel” they should?
I mean, who seriously isn’t getting paid anymore? Who on their second contract truly deserves more than they’re getting these days?
“If” is the huge part of that proposal. The (justified) distrust of owners is a huge obstacle to overcome.
History,
Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. With teams going for younger players more and more, the next CBA needs to get the kids paid a lot more early on.
MLB has a soft cap and no floor, so the owners already have an advantage.
dewey – While I totally support a payroll floor and ceiling, MLB will not push for it.
There is an old saying, every successful movie has to have a villain. MLB without the Yankees or Dodgers acquiring the biggest superstars is like Star Wars without Darth Vader, it would lead to a lot less appeal.
And the current WS ratings prove that out. Game 1 had a 62% increase over last year. Game 2 was up 65%, the largest audience since …. wait for it ….. 2018 Dodgers vs Red Sox.
MLB’s idea for helping the other teams was to dilute the postseason with playoff expansion, which BTW will increase to 14 teams when MLB expands to 32 teams.
And remember as long as there is revenue sharing, the majority of owners will want MLB to make as much money as possible.
Revenue sharing is basically hush money for smaller market teams.
Plus it’s hard to argue the huge spending Dodgers and Yankees are bad for the game when one team hasn’t won since 2009 and the other hasn’t had a legit win since 1988.
gbs – Increases in revenue sharing are useless if MLB doesn’t force the revenue recipients to spend a reasonable amount on player payroll.
steele – That would never happen because the union would never allow it.
Without capitalism in MLB, there would be no incentive to pay huge amounts to star players.
It’s funny how so many people here view MLB as “broken” because of the financial advantages of some teams, while MLB views itself as highly successful because of the record-breaking revenue it generates.
MLB owners care mostly about money, not winning. When fans finally come to realize that, as most Red Sox fans have come to realize over the past few years, the fantasy of owners desperately trying to win championships goes away.
Yeah like those two financial powerhouse teams the Rangers and DBacks. Your team can spend too. It just doesn’t want to.
Seriously? The Dodgers and the Yankees can buy any decent player and just defer their salary. It’s kinda like the first basketball dream
team in the Olympics. Did anyone think a bunch of scrubs could beat Bird, Barkley,Magic etc? How is it fair to teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cincinnati to have every MVP candidate in the last ten years playing for one team? I am so tired of the horse $hit that a salary cap only benefits the owners. It benefits every guy that doesn’t want to go to the ballpark and watch his team get beat down by an all star team every day of the season. It benefits the fans because then seats don’t cost 600 dollars apeice, so I can actually take my grandkids to a baseball game. They don’t have to charge 50 dollars for parking. The stars can actually be spread out across the league instead of congregating on one or two teams. How exactly is it fair for Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati to have a 100 million dollar payroll while the Dodgers are at 300 million plus? The union will never agree? Why is it that the baseball players need a union? They’re so put up on and conditions are so rough they need someone to watch their backs? I think I could live on the league minimum for a year or two. Nobody ever said that these guys HAVE to play baseball for a living, if they don’t like what’s offered then quit and get a real job. And don’t give me that crap about how it’s a REAL job. Not on your life. Yeah, that salary cap has killed the NFL. Nobody makes any money, the players work in deplorable conditions, they all drive Toyota Carollas to work, it just really sucks. Get real. During the pandemic we missed baseball, but we got along just fine. Baseball, Football, and especially Basketball are a luxury now, people can’t just decide to go to a game and drive down to the park and get nose bleed seats for 5 bucks anymore and that’s what’s killing baseball. Player Greed, agents greed, and lack of a HARD salary cap. The NFL has one and they are thriving, so what exactly is MLB’s problem?
gbs – If you’re saying the minimum salary should be raised, I strongly disagree.
The talented kids are already getting mega-contracts, often before they even complete a year of MLB service time.
Believe me, I’m not siding with the greedy owners here …. I just don’t want to see the cost of tickets and watching broadcasts to skyrocket even more because of inexperienced kids getting overpaid.
Man What Runs: MLB has no problem, It’s thriving as well.
The difference is that the MLBPA is much stronger than the NFLPA, so there never will and never should be a hard cap.
IMHO, the PA should agree with caps, and a % of the gross. FB thrives partly because the players and owners are on the same side.
The MLBPA just doesn’t realize that the owners are killing them in these settlements. The players are looking at Y-O-Y increases in pay, while the owners are focused on Y-O-Y increases in revenue.
Pressure teams with fines or incentives to spend all the “shared” revenue so that the bottom teams have to field a proper/more competitive roster.
Please provide data or links to said data. Parity is far greater in the NHL (until they fix pts for wins) and outside of the Disney/NFL game script for Mahome’s 3peat/SwiftKelce marriage, the NFL has improved over the years. In the NBA, because of roster design and superteams (i.e three players taking up over 75% of your cap space), it would be hard to compare to the MLB in this case.
Flip that around and talk about last year’s playoffs then? We’ve all gone through this before: there are teams that put money into players salaries and there are teams that finance the whole team purchase and pay the shareholders rather than reinvest in performance. SD traded Soto because the owner died and they weren’t going to get the go ahead to re-sign him. It’s funny how people around here talk about “small market, small market….” without ever actually looking into what is an actual small media market and what is a large market. The Cards draw fans from six hour radius, that’s not a small market. Same with the Twins.
That will just cause a cancelled season. I agree that a cap would be better all around, but the players have it good and won’t budge on that
Fever
All WS wins are legit except when there is cheating.
To say it is “different” when there is a strike or pandemic is fair, to say it is not legit is just trolling.
FPG,
Yes, I want the kids to get paid a lot more much sooner. A few mega contracts don’t offset the hundreds of players making league minimum. Not that ~$740k is bad money, but with so many free agents getting squeezed, revenues are staying in owners bank accounts.
And tickets, concessions, etc. are based on supply and demand. They’re only very loosely connected to player payroll. Here’s an example. The A’s slashed payroll the last few years and basically doubled ticket prices.
Man,
Increased revenue sharing and a soft salary floor to match what is a soft cap would balance things out quite a bit.
The NFL shares a large portion of their revenues equally, and they still have dynasties (Patriots) and teams that are awful for long stretches.
And ticket, parking, concession prices are based much more on supply and demand than on player payroll.
Also, the Return key/button is helpful in making your comment readable vs a mile-long paragraph.
Cowboy,
There’s already a soft cap, so there should be a soft floor. The owners have been winning CBA negotiations for the last 2-3 decades.
gbs42
revenues are staying in owners bank accounts.
===========================
That’s the way the players want it. I disagree wholeheartedly with their stance, but if they wanted a percentage of the revenue, they could have it tomorrow.
But they don’t.
The owners have been winning CBA negotiations for the last 2-3 decades.
================================
That’s because their reps are not particularly smart, imho. They have this mantra that “we will never accept a cap”. That’s meaningless, and oftentimes counterproductive.
If you are at 45% of revenue, and get offered 50% of revenue, but with a floor and cap, then more players will get rewarded.
This is why the NFL will get their 18th game, and the players will get one less spring training game, if they have any at all. The primary concern for both sides of the NFL is growing the top line.
Have you ever actually won an argument?
Your ignorance is refreshing in a way.
Is that what you call alternative facts?
Played, who are you replying to?
JoeBrady,
The players accepting a share of revenue would require the owners to be honest about their revenue. What in the history of baseball would make anyone think they would be honest?
MLB – I don’t “troll”, I always have found it to be childish and the term to be often misused and overused around here. As for the Dodgers I have never had anything against them, I have defended them numerous times, I am appalled they had a championship stolen from them in 2017, and I want them to win it all this year.
Legit is a term most commonly used to mean truly or justified. Since most people don’t consider the 2020 season to be legit, the 2020 “championship” isn’t considered legit either. There were too many players/teams impacted by Covid, and the ridiculous 60-game regular season schedule was heavily unbalanced and heavily favored the Dodgers.
2020 was a money grab, nothing more. It was the MLB owners dream come true, a “postseason” without a real regular season. Players wanted to play a much longer season, but the owners dragged their feet as long as possible because “postseason” television revenue is where the big money is made.
gbs – I totally get wanting more money to go to the players instead of the greedy owners’ pockets.
What I didn’t know and don’t get is how the A’s could simultaneously slash payroll while doubling ticket prices. Something doesn’t seem right there, especially going by supply and demand.
Fever
Legitimate means conforming to the law or to rules. 2020 rules were evenly applied to all teams. The 2020 championship was legitimate, just different.
MLB – As I mentioned earlier how they are viewed is up to the eyes of each individual. Some people believe the ’17 Astros are legit champions, while many others don’t. There’s no concrete right or wrong, to quote you …. there’s just different.
Do a Google search of “legit” which is slang, you’ll find the definition doesn’t include laws or rules. Something could be not real, and yet not break any laws.
Even people can be legit, or can be too legit to quit as a former Oakland Athletics ballboy once said.
MLB is not nearly the ratings juggernaut that the NFL is. And it is NOT thriving. Look at TV ratings, attendance at cities like Tampa and Miami. When was the last time you saw an NFL stadium 1/4 full like you do in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago (White Sox). Even the most ardent fan gets tired of watching their team lose to an all star team that’s bought and paid for. These guys are eventually going to price themselves out of a job. Personally I like to watch the minor league games. The players want to be there, they actually will talk to and sign autographs for kids, and the tickets and concessions aren’t expensive.
Man – You know football teams play only 8-9 home games a year, right?
Never heard of supply and demand?
If you’re telling me that by “legit” you did not mean legitimate but rather you meant some slang meaning, then who am I to disagree with you? Thanks for explaining.
Fever pitch… I think the way we all look at this is through a different lens than the owners. They’re like the ultra wealthy who own wineries in Napa- They made vast fortunes in some other business before they ever got into the pro sports ownership racket. And the first question they ask before any decision is- What are the tax ramifications? Whatever we think is ‘right’ is way down their priority list…
Man,
MLB plays a 162-game season, the NFL plays 17. Baseball is a consistent daily presence, football is a weekly event. Comparing per-game attendance is apples and oranges.
Median total MLB attendance was over 2.5M this year. Median NFL total attendance last year was under 600k. The 2024 A’s sold nearly 175k more tickets than the 2023 Cowboys.
As far as signing autographs, how many NFL players do that? You’re being very selective with your arguments as you attempt to prove your points.
Owners do not subsidize franchises out of their other wealth. Period. In any sport. Not intentionally anyway. They spend only from the team’s revenue. Which means how wealthy an owner happens to be is irrelevant.
The randomness of the playoffs is the equalizer. How many championships have the Dodgers and Yankees won combined in the past 20 years? In a few days, it will be 3. Not exactly unfair. Also, part of the reason the top teams have the top payroll is because they’re going for it.
I’m all for stiffer penalties, but there is much more parity in baseball than any other sport.
SC,
You’re saying the NFL is plotting to make the Chiefs 3-peat champions? What size is your tin foil hat?
Poisoned,
St. Louis is a small market that markets very well to a large radius. Don’t confuse market size and marketing ability.
A cap creates more balance and forces teams to be smarter with limited resources. If the Dodgers buy all the talent and win the World Series the next 3 years, is that good for fans? Not really. In fact, I think we can automatically kick out half the teams because pretty soon, without a cap, there will really only be 6-8 legitimate contenders: Dodgers, Padres, Giants, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs… Maybe Astros or Braves. Still waiting for the small market teams to actually win it all.
@JSantaro, fines and draft capital do nothing to dissuade teams like the Mets/Dodgers/Yankees. Only teams that are trying to cut down on salaries in the future care about draft capital. And when the Dodgers can develop scrubs into solid players why should they care if their first or second pick gets taken when they can just buy an established talent elsewhere? Fines hurt but I just don’t think the super rich owners care.
@Blackpink, exactly. ‘poor’ teams like the Rays don’t bother splurging on talent. If that’s the case they should sell to owners who can. I think this can be said about at least half the owners in the league.
@blue baron do you have that data to support your claim? NBA is a wash bit the NFL and NHL all have more parity. There are always teams in the mix but not because of higher salaries given to players.
Rays: But buying players doesn’t produce repeat champions. No team has repeated as champion since 2000.
A salary cap is a socialistic solution looking for a problem.
Rays: All you need to do is look at how many different teams have won the World Series over the last 10-15 years.
Considering I’ve owned two businesses I do understand supply and demand, probably better than you do. Here’s a scenario. I’m selling a product at 10 dollars and I’m going along making my money. Walmart comes in, wants to sell that product,tells the manufacturer we’ll take all you can produce and sell it cheaper because they are selling millions not hundreds and oh well, guess who can’t get anymore. Big boys buy all the inventory and I don’t have any more to sell at any price. Dodgers and Yankees are the big boys buying up all the good to great players leaving none for anyone else. A salary cap would spread those players out and make things more competitive for everyone. If you cannot understand simple economics I don’t understand how you go through life.
My nephew has 25+ autographs of current Bengals players. All you have to do is ask. Also baseball tickets are 25 dollars and up. Football tickets are 250 plus. A little bit of a difference. Being selective? Nope, just being real and not nitpicking about the way I phrase things. I have a traumatic brain injury, so if you must nitpick please do. Not an excuse or a pity party, just telling you I might not phrase things well sometimes. But in this case I feel I have a good argument.
A voice of reason in the wilderness. How did you get in here?
Really? Look at football. Last year in the AFC North all 4 teams had winning records. Enough parity for you? The Yankees and Dodgers win over a hundred games and the White Sox are 75 games out of first place. So much equality among baseball teams.
Man What Runs: I run a business as well and have a fine understanding of economics.
Try being even more condescending next time to make yourself feel smart.
Man,
(Notice I’m letting everyone know who I’m replying t.)
One year of one NFL division defines parity? That’s absurd.
Neither the Yankees nor Dodgers won 100 games this year, and Chicago is a really big city to have a team that bad.
Your parity arguments are lacking.
Rays, how about using increased revenue sharing to accomplish the balance you’re looking for? Why should owners expect players to solve team disparity issues?
@gbs Whatever works. The problem is that, unless there are hard rules to force owners to use that extra revenue sharing profit to better the team, most owners would likely not use revenue sharing resources to get better players.
Rays, MLB already has a soft cap, so adding a soft floor should be straightforward, but the cheap owners will oppose it.
No way. If the Dodgers want to win the division over the Padres, they need a frontline starter and an inning eater #4-5 starter, they can pass on Soto. They can even pass on Teoscar if the price is too high. A lineup of Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Muncy, Edman, Smith, Pages, Lux and Freeland/Rushford is pretty good. How about an off-season of Corbin Burnes, Wily Adames and any inning eater with a sub 4.50 era, instead of Soto
How about all of the above AND Soto.
I’m not even a dodgers fan and I like this idea.
Dalton Rushing
Ing not ford, correct!
I don’t see it really happening. To me he really feels like a Yankee.
Unless, of course, he feels like a Met. Cohen has more money than Steinbrenner.
Only if he does not care about winning consistently. The Yankees are far better off in that regard than the Mets. Mets have never been a consistent contender
But things change over time. And if that’s so important, he should sign with the Dodgers.
The Yankees haven’t won consistently in more than 20 years.
It’s been 19 years since the Yankees have won. They’re not a consistent contender for a title. He might as well go to Houston if consistency is his sole reason for signing.
Actually 15, but your point is well taken.
@Yankee Clipper et al
Exactly where would he play? Ohtani would be DH, and Mookie is RF. Mookie could move again to 2B but $50 million a year (regardless of deferrals) would add $40 million in tax from where they are now.
I don’t see the Dodgers paying around $90 million a season for Soto.
@A’s
LF, where you hide your worst outfielder if he can hit.
Dodgers just tactically driving up price for Mets/Yankees. Rather see em re-sign Teoscar ALOT cheaper. Don’t need Soto.
I’m amazed at how many fans don’t want a phenomenal hitter on their team.
Anyone surprised by that has not been paying attention for the past decade. The Dodgers spent more in free agency last year than the rest of the league COMBINED. It is not a level playing field. They are good at being the rich guys, but you’ll never convince me that it is fair.
Because it isn’t fair. The MLB heavily, heavily favors the rich teams.
Not really, it just doesn’t punish cheap owners enough.
The crying by commenters like hiflew is annoying, Dodgers ownership wants to win and backs up that desire with money. That’s what competition is.
Carry your thoughts one step further Dusty, and 90% of the League can’t compete with that level of spending though.
There is the real problem. People are allowed to own teams who have no desire to be competitive.
Usually we agree, but I think actually half of the 30 teams MLB monopoly can run a $240 to $250 million payroll just many owners choose not to. Dodgers, Padres, Giants, Cubs, Cardinals, Mets, Phillies, Atlanta, nationals, Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles with new owner, Rangers, Astros, and Angels. No ceiling without a floor.
Honestly, not even the mighty Yankees can compete with that spending. Steve Cohen can (and then some) though, if he chooses to.
Teams that belong on this list as well based on owner’s wealth being over three billion dollars.
Blue Jays – owner is the second richest behind Cohen
Braves
Guardians
Tigers
Twins
Team in a major market
White Sox
I meant to include the Blue Jays and did include Atlanta. The others I am less sure could handle $240 million and break even (I define breaking even as equity gain equals or exceeds cash flow loss, if any, taking into account taxes)
No business is in it just to “break even” and these guys didn’t become billionaires by just breaking even.
based on owner’s wealth
=====================
But that doesn’t work. Owners will only spend to the level of revenues the team brings in. They won’t reach into their own personal wealth.
And no one in here will either. If you owned a diner that brought in $500k of revenue every year, you wouldn’t serve $600k in food, reaching into your pocket for the $100k difference. No one in the world would,
An Owners/Players negotiated agreement that minimum 75% of revenue sharing must be reinvested back into improving the team. (In the next Labor contract)
.
Could be hiring more scouts, international pool money, upgrading MLB and spring training facilities, analytical and science/kiniseology studies.
All markets seeking prospects like latin america, japan, korea, europe, canada, australia?
In fairness owners of “Smaller Markets” have had justified concerns about broadcast rights and lack of clarity on stable revenue streams in the last 2+ years
There are billionaires out there wanting to join the club just to feed their narcissistic egos
Not faulting the dodgers, but it’s a symptom of the bigger disease.
Every owner can spend more Gwynn, someone has to spend the most but spending the most doesn’t guarantee anything.
Astros have been on a modern historic run in terms of DS appearances, never been the biggest spenders, but they do spend.
You don’t have to be the dodgers to compete, you just can’t be the A’s
Startup businesses put in more cash than receipts all the time to get huge equity increases. But this is not the free market it is a government sanctioned monopoly. There is a greater demand from billionaires to be owners than teams available to own. That should be exploited to get more for the fans, like a certain number of free regular season games on tv, which already occurs. In any event, I do not think the current system is broken and think no changes are needed. But if you want a cap, you need a floor.
But that’s not whats happening. Teams in small markets, like the guardians and the pirates are given $100 million plus a year in MLB tv revenue and revenue sharing. The owners then spend as little of that as possible, pocket the rest plus all the revenue they generate during the year. I’ll start thinking about a salary cap when the cheap owners stop pocketing other teams money thats supposed to go to making them competetive.
Cheap Owners? Let’s spread the revenue equally, and then we will see who the Cheap owners are. Payroll is always a percentage of revenue and it wouldn’t surprise me, should the teams’ books ever be made public, that LAD is not the team paying the highest percentage of payroll. NY, LA, and Boston have such large revenue streams due to market size that even mid size teams cannot compete. The Yankees complain about the tax levels, but it just gives them an excuse to pack away more profit. If you say rich, and poor owners (relatively), then I might give your comment some weight.
You contradicted yourself and added to my comment by adding Boston to your list with NY and LA.
in baseball terms Boston is a ‘big market’ team because they spend and atleast recently have created a culture of winning. If a city of Boston’s size can, then most can, Boston isn’t even top 20 in US in population size, but they’ve had competitive owners that have spent the necessary money on premier players to create a brand
This idea that the Dodgers would be the Dodgers no matter what because of LA is ridiculous. Their market size is a part of it, but a cheap owner, a losing culture would break that down quickly.
Small market teams receive millions in comp balance payments, they don’t spend more, some even pocket some of it. Their brand stays the same. White Sox biggest FA contract ever is Benintendi, why would should the Dodgers spend less to close the gap between those two teams?
Boston only gets 97 million in local TV money, a lot more than a lot of teams but nowhere near what the Dodgers and Yankees are pulling in. The Dodgers for example can pay their payroll alone.
Dodgers and Yankees pull in more in tv because of fans outside their markets watching, which is a direct result of paying stars.
Any team that signed Ohtani would have benefited from increased viewership from Japan.
The Padres had Juan Soto. Could afford Juan Soto. And chose to trade Juan Soto.
Dodgers and Yankees get more because they own their networks. With that they have the ability to make decisions without dealing with a third party. Just what they wish and the rules applied by MLB.
Now do they have the luxury of having their own network due to their market size? Probably, but that’s a whole different discussion.
Breaking even in a given year is not the same as breaking even overall.
The investment in a team is in the value when you sell it not the profit on a yearly basis
If that diner triples in value in 10 years, every one with smarts would
This has to be carefully worded, and there will still be loopholes that slip through the cracks. You include upgrading MLB and spring training facilities in your list. Does that include lobbying, architecture, engineering, etc.? Will the Rays (White Sox, etc.) be able to use that revenue sharing money exclusively on stadium concerns in the next several years? Who verifies that money?
BTW, internal pool money is tightly regulated. Setting up and maintaining training academies abroad would probably be more applicable.
My guess is that most of these expenditures won’t please players or fans, because they are largely out of sight. Heck, some small market teams likely are doing these already, and we wouldn’t have any idea.
Market isn’t only a function of population, it can also be advertiser support. Boston has a number of financial firms headquartered in the city.
@Dusty traditionally $ more than doubles being invested in 10 years. So that capital was going to grow regardless. Make no mistake MLB is a business and the vast majority of owners aren’t out to lose $ annually
Dodgers are not in the top 15 in percentage of revenue spent on payroll. With over $700 million in revenue, to even get to 50% they would have to spend >$350 million each season. They were at 351.7 million in 2024, so they at least got up to 50%
A team like the Guardians with around $250 million in revenue would be well over 50% at $140 million in CBT payroll like they had in 2024. i used $250 million because Manfred said that no team had revenue lower than that amount.
The Angels were higher in revenue than either the Braves or Blue Jays and we know that those two teams had revenue of $574 million and $542 million respectively. Arte could afford to be spending $290 million in CBT payroll and still be at 50% of revenue.
Something to keep in mind is that in all the other major sports, the owners books are open to the union and the players are guaranteed to make around 50% of total revenue for the sport.
If you add up all the CBT payroll figures and look at total revenue for MLB that Manfred has shared publicly, and I think it’s more than he is saying, the player’s share of total revenue in MLB has not topped 40% of revenues the last 3 CBAs.
Boston is #9 in MLB in media market size. Their actual market includes most of New England which is why they are considered a large market team. In terms of revenue, the Red Sox are #3 in MLB.
Why aren’t they 9th in revenue?
Cable deals, demographics, amount of disposal income, personal preferences, etc. The market size influences the revenue as it’s a larger potential fanbase. That does not assure any constant % will hold true for each marker, whether they become fans or what % of the fans are willing to spend or there home media package choices.
@Dusty They both pull in more due to having their own networks. Yankees generated $780M in 2023, Dodgers were 2nd with $550M, and MLB average was just under 380M.
I believe for 2024 the #s I read had Yankees over $800M, Dodgers upto $730M, and MLB avg down to $330M. So yes seems like Ohtani has made an impact internationally. Dodgers games also became available on a few new platforms, so alot of that increase is also due to expanded reach to fanbase.
@Dusty:
See: McCourt, Frank
Your comment is spot on
This isn’t the right way to fix things. It needs to happen on both ends, but if you just punish the cheaper teams it means that they will have dis proportionally lower profit margins and that will lead to a Cascade of bad things. Since they will never go for a cap ceiling or cap floor, what should happen is that revenue sharing should go into a payroll pot. They can’t pocket that money, it needs to be spent on player development or free agency. If they don’t use it, then it reverts back to the paying team.
@Tang There actually is a floor. With a minimum salary for players and a finite roster size there is an absolute minimum that must be spent. Now the luxury tax is not finite and with a weak floor and unset ceiling it doesn’t really do much of anything to promote more equality in spending between franchises.
All the owners are rich, the Dodger owners just invest their money back into their team. It’s like a fan of the Dodgers owns the team. Should all owners just keep more money? No a player should be payed whatever they are worth, and they are worth whatever a team is willing to pay them.
rel·a·tiv·ism
/ˈrelədəˌviz(ə)m/
noun
noun: relativism
the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute.
All the owners are rich,
======================
More silly crap. Teams like the NYY and LAD probably have triple the free cash flow of the smaller markets.
Right there’s a difference between being rich personally and having the revenue streams to support bigger spending. People don’t seem to realize that owners are not spending their personal fortunes on this. They want to make more money, not lose it.
Yes, all the owners are rich. The Dodgers owners are just lucky enough to be in one of the largest markets, so the revenue stream allows higher payroll. No Dodger owner is kicking in from their own pocket. Its team money covering payroll. After buying their share of the team, Dodgers owners sit back and count the profit.
Still, there is no way I would pay Soto more than Ohtani.
“Heavily favors the rich”…Isn’t that pretty much the way it works in real life too?..The rich having an advantage is hardly a new concept.
Mlb fan this is sports it’s supposed to be about fair competition not who has the most money.
there’s your problem you think it’s just a sport, when in fact it’s a business based on people like you spending money on it thinking it’s a sport, yes they play the game of baseball, but the making money is truly what it is all about at the end of the day
Shared revenue. Everyone makes money.
Pretty sure this counts as real life last time I checked…
And a lot of people in this thread are clearly not business owners.
And likely are more apt to think the “government” should pay back their student loans while simultaneously undermining the intellect of their neighbors (who just so happen to be footing the bill for their zero market value degree).
“Heavily favors the rich”…Isn’t that pretty much the way it works in real life too?
=========================
I sometimes wonder what some of the posters do in the real world. They have this insane notion that all owners, because they are wealthier than us, have unlimited money and can run $300M payrolls.
To me, that’s like wondering why people in the Bronx don’t all drive Porches. Just because it might be technically possible, doesn’t mean anyone is going into hock to do so.
The college system is broken. The answer is definitely not loan forgiveness but the system is broken to say otherwise is false.
And likely are more apt to think the “government” should pay back their student loans
========================
I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole, but what the heck. Some fans have a welfare mentality. It’s always “so-and-so is rich, so he should pay for more players to watch, even if I don’t actually buy any tickets”.
Anti trust exemption means you can’t compare MLB to the free market
Two concepts that cannot simultaneously be held:
1-A college degree is the best investment you will ever make.
2-We need to write off all loans because college graduates don’t make enough money to repay them.
@Blackpink/Joel Well I won’t say the college system is without its issues. They ve learned to hold any future anyone aspires to be through academics hostage only to be had with wealthy parents or accumulated debt. And the cost has way outpaced inflation.
For many degrees and in many fields a degree(s) pay off immensely over time both financially and less toll on one’s body compared to many who end up doing more labor intensive jobs.
The biggest issue tho was this falecy perpetuated to all that just go to college and the world will be your oyster. Degrees are still vulnerable to supply and demand. And regardless of how some feel about it, degrees such as Liberal Arts just don’t draw high salary jobs.
LordShade: “Because it isn’t fair.”
Boo hoo. Cry me a river. Life isn’t fair.
All these owners are billionaires, they can spend if they choose to do so but they all like Jerry Jones, cheap MFers, so don’t blame the Dodger Ownership group!
If I’d have a billion, I would be wary of spending 700MM on Ohtani, let alone add 500MM of that for Soto. According to your reason, after those 2 contracts my money would be gone. Lesson learned: not all teams can spend like the Dodgers.
I’m not crying though, money isn’t everything in sports, see the Diamondbacks’ World Series run last year.
That’s not quite true – it’s about cashflow management. If you give someone a $500m contract, you’re not just giving them $500m today. It’s revenue v outgoings, and every team owner can afford to manage a Soto contract. Most of them are just choosing to pocket the revenue rather than reinventing.
So you think your team would have zero revenue with those players?
that’s just not true, are you seriously suggesting the rays or some of these smaller market teams could spend at the level of the dodgers or yankees,and they just don’t?, that’s stupid on an incredible level
That’s not what the commenter I reacted to was saying, he wrote about owner’s money only: “all these owners are billionaires, they can spend if they choose to do so”.
And, yes, it is about cash flow as well. And, no, I think not all teams can manage Soto’s contract AND build a competitive team around him with that contract AND earn loads of money. If it was that easy, I am sure many would have already done it.
Signing Soto will not make a team like the Diamondbacks all of a sudden one of the hottest teams in the baseball world and a money-milking cow. Have the Angels been that with Trout and Ohtani? No.
No one is saying that lucky streaks can’t happen, which is basically what happened with both Arizona and Texas last year. But where are they this year? If you notice, the wealthy generally get a seat at the table each and every year while mid and small markets have to hope to get lucky that 1 out of every 3-4 years (or more) that they get a chance to get lucky against the rich,
What do you think the Return on Investment is for the Dodgers on Shohei Ohtani’s contract?
Do you think the Dodgers made more or less than $70 million dollars in revenue from him signing with the team?
A better question would be how much of his total contract did the Dodgers make back this season alone?
Keep in mind that the contract in present value dollars is $460 million and is only $700 million if you compute the future value of the payments.
Think about all the sales of Ohtani Dodger related merchandise in Japan and the US. The increased television ratings and television ad revenue (in the Japan and the US). The increase in stadium advertising revenue. The additional revenue from ticket price increases.
Here’s a few more things to consider. The Los Angeles tourism board estimates that eight to ninety percent of all visitors from Japan in 2024 go to Dodger stadium. Some go to watch a game. Other just to go on a stadium tour. They almost all buy merchandise when they go their. Additionally, the Dodgers announced that 22% of all tickets sold in 2024 for home games were from people traveling from Japan.
They are literally given money through revenue sharing on nationally televised games. That and including the smallest tv deal gives each team a minimum of $110mm that they are supposed to use on payroll, however lots of teams launder most this money in “player development” which can’t really be traced. So it’s actually not incredibly stupid to believe that teams prefer not to spend what they can considering there’s plenty of teams that have payrolls under this number while their billionaire owners claim poor because it literally happens every year and no one knows it while they complain about high payrolls
The Dodgers were over the CBT for the 4th straight season and were over the cohen line, so each dollar spent on additional FA this past offseason cost them 110% of that in fines. Ohtani cost the Dodgers $96.6 million in 2024 including those CBT fines.
All teams, including the Dodgers, get very little on merchandise. That is split between the MLBPA and MLB regardless of who the player is, so Dodgers get 1/30th of it. That helps other teams as much as it does the Dodgers.
The Dodgers had a tiny bump in attendance, From 47,371 to 48,657 or 1286 more tickets sold per game. The average ticket price was $52.76, Even though the vast majority of the additional tickets sold were in the cheap seats simply because box seats are sold out with season ticket holders most seasons, I will go with that average price so that would be an additional $67.850 per home game. About $5.5 million for the season. That didn’t cover the increase in minimum wage for 2024 for stadium workers, let alone Ohtani.
Adam Burke of the Los Angeles Tourism and Convention Board is an old friend that I have known since he was with Hilton and I know for a fact that he never said anything of the sort. He did say that Japanese tourism was on the rise with 230,000 visitors in 2023.
For 2022, the last year that they released those statistics, the website of the Los Angeles Tourism and Convention Board, discoverlosangeles.com/ those statistics were that 3-5% of tourists from Japan go to a Dodger game. The #1 destination was Disneyland, visited by 22% of Japanese tourists.
The Dodgers said no such thing about tickets sold. In a stadium that holds 56,000, the Dodgers saw an increase in ticket sales of 1286 per game. 2.2%. If every single one of them was coming from Japan, that was still a tiny percentage.
STUBHUB, which accounts for 2.5% of all tickets sold on the secondary market for Dodgers games,said that buyers from Japan accounted for 22% of Dodgers tickets sold on STUBHUB. So that would mean that about 264 tickets per game or about 21,000 this season were sold to buyers from Japan.
The dodgers ARE the dodgers because they’ve invested in their brand.
It’s the difference between the lakers and the Clippers or Cubs and White Sox.
So you think the Pittsburgh market and the Los Angeles market are equal? Those two markets do not bring in the same revenue. It shouldn’t matter how much money the owners have. These are businesses and each business shouldn’t lose money regardless of who owns it. I guarantee you that if Amazon ever starts losing money regularly, it will be shut down before Bezos ever goes broke spending his personal money to bail it out. Extreme example and not a perfect parallel of course, but you get the gist.
Pittsburgh owners pocket $50mm and claim poor. Who cares what their market can produce when they don’t even spend what they can to put a good team on the field? Same with Cincinnati
Actually, I am wrong about Pitt and cin and every teams payroll is now closer to pushing their tv contracts totals
They can do so, but they will eventually go bankrupt.
It’s fair up until the time that the league gets off its tail and instills a legitimate salary cap…which will never happen, because, among other things, the Players Assoc will never agree to it. While the big market teams acknowledge the luxury tax, it’s obviously not the deterrent the league had hoped. It’s only served to separate the have’s and the have-not’s even further.
It is fair. It’s capitalism. Sorry, your oligarch is less invested than California’s oligarch. Their bread and circuses are better because they operate in a better area.
I’ve said this a hundred times, but obviously it needs to be said again: the MLB cannot operate on pure capitalism. It would fail. The teams need each other to have a league. If McDonalds runs Burger King, Taco Bell, In n Out and Dominoes out of business it’s good for them. If the Sox to eight major market teams run the others out of business, it hurts them.
Exactly DM. They are all working together.
There are hundreds of billionaires who want to own a baseball team. The “Poorer” existing owners can sell a stake in their team to spend more. If you want a cap of $240 million, then support a floor of $120 million.
“You’ll never convince me that it is fair”…Life has never been “fair”, my friend. The Dodgers certainly won’t try to convince you.
They’ll just keep leveraging their 48,000+ daily crowds(and MASSIVE tv audience)and buying, trading for and drafting the best players available. Hate the game, but don’t hate the players.
It’s simple really, baseball teams depend on their market and teams with smaller markets are at a disadvantage. Nothing to do with the wealth of the owner. This is not a business reality it is a sports as entertainment reality. You can put a successful company in a lot more places than you can put a successful sports franchise. The simple solution is shared revenue. There are ways to rid the game of failure owners and failure cities, you just need to be willing to sell and or move the failing franchises. Allowing them to continue in their stench of mediocrity is the problem.
A lot of the small teams that don’t get into the playoffs regularly are run by owners who simply don’t want to open up their pocketbooks, even though they could. Baltimore could be in the Series now if they’d spent more money on pitching. Cleveland could have gone further with another batter or two. The Mariners could go far with a couple of bats. Detroit, KC, Cincinnati, Arizona are all promising. If the Rays doubled their payroll, they’d probably be in the World Series every year. Lol. It’s not about spending the most, but spending enough when ypur window is open, and all of the owners are capable of that.
There has to be a match between expenses and revenue. Otherwise, the venture fails.
Owners don’t buy teams so they can drain their wealth on a chance at winning.
“Owners don’t buy teams..drain their wealth”…You got that right. Anyone that thinks owners will go into their own pockets to “win” hasn’t been watching capitalism closely enough.
Even the Dodgers are spending relative to what they bring in, income wise. It’s not like the Dodgers spend wantonly outside their means. It’s not the Dodgers fault they operate in one of the world’s largest, most densely populated regions.
Let owners increase revenue sharing instead of putting the solution on the players with a salary cap
Prior to last offseason I don’t think the Dodgers ever spent a 150m on a free agent. Think about that.
They obviously spent a record amount last off-season with unique circumstances in Ohtani and Yamamoto.
With how many big leaguers the Dodgers develop, they are easily baseball’s best run organization from having the development chops to draft and sign international prospects better than most while being able to outdraw all teams spend as much as any of them in large part because of that.
Being able let a 26 yr old ss like Seager walk and get 300+m elsewhere is impressive in it’s own right. Or royally screw up giving away talent like Yordan Alvarez and Oneil Cruz and still win the division year in and out with realitive ease.
Obviously I’m no Dodger fan, but damn I can appreciate a well run machine when I see one.
PadrePapi
I understand your general point. But, technically, in March of 2022, the Los Angeles Dodgers signed Freddie Freeman to a six-year contract worth $162 million.
Well besides Betts and Freeman and Kershaw.
Betts was an extension following a trade, not a free agent.
Playing semantics to say the Dodgers don’t pay huge contracts is being ridiculous.
There you go taking ONE offseason and making conclusions. What about the previous season, the Padres spent more than anyone else? Isn’t fair?
Doyers need to park it. They’re coming off like the old man Steinbrenner Yankees.
Your jealousy is pretty obvious. Incidentally Ohtani offered to defer. Is he the problem or is it that your team was not attractive to him?
stingray23: You say that as if it’s a bad thing.
Sometimes I have to wonder if the agents are paying for these articles.
Heyman is definitely a player’s best friend. He is no doubt shilling for Boras because Boras knows there isn’t a robust market for Soto. The Dodgers won’t be one of them, so Heyman -through Boras – throws out that the Dodgers are players to “scare” other teams.
There are only about 5 teams that could make a run at Soto and the Dodgers are one of them. That is the only thing that would connect them with Soto at this time. I agree that they probably won’t be serious.
Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, for sure. Maybe Nationals. Phillies if Middleton wants to spend more “stupid money”. Giants, I guess. That’s really about it.
So, is Middleton’s money any different than the other teams you mentioned? The Phillies have a large market, and spend accordingly. Wouldn’t all fans want that for their team?
It was the phrase Middleton made before he started spending on free agents (Harper, specifically). Hence, the quotation marks.
Yes, I know that Middleton said stupid money. Apparently, it had an impact on you.
Dodgers have holes in rotation, 2B and bullpen and OF that needs to be addressed and will put them close to the highest luxury tax level before Soto’s potential contract. He is NOT coming to Dodgers under any circumstances
Lighten up.
And a deep impact at that!
Dodgers needs for next year are SS, 1SP, 1RP and 1 outfielder. thats it. Rojas, Edman, Outman and Pages could make enough of a platoon to fill the SS and Outfield spot if they don’t get a guy they like. Dogders payroll currently for next year is 208 million, so they could easily absorb Soto plus 1-2 other guys before hitting 300 million.
Blue Jays owner is worth close to $12 billion. He’s the second richest to Steve Cohen. Pretty sure he could make an offer as well.
Ok Gen Z, I am done playing with you. Cheers.
Silly boy, guessing generations doesn’t appear to be your strong suit.
** Francis”
Soto is going to the highest bidder plain n simple. He doesn’t care who it is, big money talks.
@BaseballClassic1985
Just stop with the conspiracy theories and making stuff up. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to surmise the Dodgers could be in on Soto.
There’s zero facts to accuse Heyman of what you’re accusing him of. Boras doesn’t need any help selling Soto to the best team in the game – the Dodgers who have reams of money and could indeed be interested in a 26 year old stud hitter who’s on Hall of Fame track even at his age. He just turned 26 2 or 3 days ago.
Yup…it’s the usual journalistic clap trap crap. Throw a dart at the highest priced beef in the upcoming free agency, gather the 4 or 5 teams out of 30 that have a shot at his asking price. Then toss out the usual “expected-to-be-all-in” garbage in your article. Rinse, repeat.
Groundbreaking drivel to be sure.
You obviously don’t read Heyman regularly lolz
I try not to.
I was replying to LongTimeFan, Luis
Then dont comment on crap he puts out. He’s a known liar and is usually wrong in his articles.
Sorry bro…carry on.
Ya think? Sheesh. This story is a joke and the coverage of it by mlbtr is even more ludicrous.
The editors here must think that only Dodger and Yankee fans are reading these days. Total non story!
norcal, one of the most renowned teams in the league – they’re playing in the World Series if you hadn’t noticed – being interested in one of the greatest free agents ever is a story.
Except no evidence, not one source is provided. This is pure conjecture. It’s a non story
I heard a rumor from mlbtr chat that Taylor Swift is buying the Dodgers but will reduce their payroll to $50M
Yeah, and this is just the start of it. Imagine how crazy the “Soto to ‘X’ team” will be post-series.I doubt the Dodgers would be discussing their pursuit of a FA during the WS, particularly when that FA is on the opposing team.
Moreover, Manfred has to first expand rosters to 35 so the Dodgers can get fellow countryman Roki Sasaki (and the rest of team Japan) on their roster.
Anyway, I don’t doubt the Okinawa Dodgers will pursue Soto, but as of right now, I see him going to the Yankees or Mets.
It’s more Jon Heyman BS. Ohtani got hurt and may need to get amputated so let’s drum up some noise for his replacement during the WS as an opposing player. He should just write for TMZ Sports bc these articles are even insulting to NY Post readers.
if you can’t beat him, pay him
They are about to beat them then pay him lol
Umm The Dodgers are up 2-0
not because of soto
1.413 OPS so far
they might beat the yankees but they’re not beating him
Sounds like more Dodger salaries being deferred…already $1 billion deferred…pffft
Cry!
I’m a small market fan that likes the MLB model. And spending gobs of money to try to buy a pennant is a great strategy if you can afford it … especially year in and out. But, it’s not the only way. Always a chance that small market team can win it all. Love that.
My gut says there’s no turning back, either. A new league entity/corporation launched to compete against MLB is an option. Publicly traded. Each team and all it’s on field and off field personnel are employees of the corporation. And make it a World League. Everybody gets a base pay plus bonus pay based on previous years performance determined by performance review.
Baltimore is hardly a “small market”. That’s just an excuse for cheap owners
Ere – Baltimore is the 7th-smallest market in MLB, thanks in large part to Peter Angelos allowing the Nationals to take over a huge chunk of the Orioles territory in 2005.
Now the Orioles market is about the same size as Cincy, which is the 6th-smallest.
All true, but…Angelos hardly allowed the Nationals to take a big chunk of the territory. They own 67-70% of MASN, which is to say they own the Nationals TV rights. The Orioles and Nationals have equal penetration in every area MASN is carried.
Okay so they are the 7th smallest market in mlb. What’s your point? The owner is still a billionaire who has the funds to try to acquire the same amount of talent the dodger do. Like I said blame it on cheap owners not small market teams.
David Rubinstein has a net worth of 4.6 billion dollars. Oh but let’s hear the small market argument again
falcon – Good point. I should have used the word “share” instead of “take over”, my bad.
Erebus – I never understand when someone asks me my point after I simply point out something they said was inaccurate. They are a small market team, that’s my point! LOL!!
If the market is too small to sustain a large payroll, expecting ownership to cover any potential financial losses is ridiculous. So you want Dave to use millions of his own money just to sign big name players? Really?
Fans need to face the facts, the ten smallest markets in MLB simply cannot compete with the payrolls of teams like the Dodgers and Yankees. When I say compete I mean have a similarly large payroll, I don’t mean compete on the field.
Doesn’t really matter what we think. The fact is MLB recognizes the playing field is not even for some teams including Baltimore by compensating them via revenue sharing.
4.6 billion if Baltimore wanted they could compete with any team when it comes to free agents.
Any team that gives Soto $50 million per year is clinically insane. I hope the Dodgers or the Mets or the Blue Jays outbid the Yankees for his services.
Soto is a terrible outfielder and a below average baserunner, and this year’s WS is proving you need more than a hot Juan Soto to win. Adding Soto to Judge, Cole and Stanton would tie up their payroll for the foreseeable future. No thanks.
Yankees don’t win the division and wouldn’t be in the WS with out him.
Yankees needed 25+ other players to get where they are. Soto was a big contributor, of course, but he’s still just 1 player. There isn’t one rational argument for giving Soto $50 million per year over 10 – 12 years.
Yankees – theoretically – could sign Burnes, Snell and some other position player for the $ they’re going to have to pay out to keep Soto. I’d rather have 3 players over 1, who is quickly on his way to being strictly a DH.
Youre not getting Burnes, Snell, another for that 50 mil or anything close to that.
I meant total cost. You could get Burnes, Snell and Bregman for the $500+ million total Soto is expected to be seeking.
Bingo well said and I’ve posted this numerous times. Yankees will easily be a better team with 3-4 top free agents over Soto and lets not forget Dominguez and Jones in the future going to be a juggernaut for a decade
You are saying the Yankees would be better spending $90+ million AAV on 3 top FA than spending $40 million AAv on Soto? I would agree with that. Every team would be better if they were able to do that.
Dusty
If the Yankees don’t have Soto, then maybe they have King, Cease and Brito instead
Personally, I thought the Yankees and Padres both made a good deal at the time. I still think that. I also would not re-sign Soto at $400 million-plus that he will surely get because I see him as a DH in 3-4 years.
Mets happen to have a hole now at DH that they could happily plug Soto into for the next decade.
Make it happen Uncle Steve.
I’d be thrilled if Cohen signed Soto. Free up money for other holes the Yankees have. Steinbrenner isn’t giving Soto $500+ million
What would you do in his place this offseason?
I would go after one of the top free agent pitchers and I would go after Bellinger for CF if he becomes available. If not, I’d make a run at Bregman. Guy is an excellent offensive player and a quality 3rd baseman, something the Yankees need.
I haven’t looked at the entire list of free agents for a backup plan, but something I wouldn’t do is bring back Gleyber and a couple of the free agent relievers they have.
Getting a top starter such as Burnes/Snell/Fried would cut down on the need for numerous high priced relievers. Bregman at 3rd would send Chisholm to 2nd base to replace Torres. Team is not worse with that setup, even if Soto isn’t retained.
Would they spend more money to bring in a T Hernandez or a C Walker on top of that? If I do that, then I can sit back and say I’ve done a good job of replacing Soto.
If they signed one of the top free agents pitchers and Bregman, Hal wouldn’t also give Hernandez big money. Christian Walker on a short -term deal, maybe.
If the Dodgers give Soto $40 million AAV, it will cost them nearly $90 million in 2025 including CBT fines.
Soto is really a 3 Tool player.
The 3 Tools are excellent but defensively he doesn’t get good reads on many balls that are catchable. His arm is slightly above average I guess, not super accurate. He is a below average baserunner, doesn’t steal bases. He was a key contributor when WASH won a World Series but they won because of superior pitching and timely hitting.
Why wasn’t Soto able to help the SDP more in about 1.5 years.?
Was there some personality/ego issues, managerial communication issues Tatis did have a PED suspension. Curious? I realize it is a team game and one player can only do so much BUT that is why I would try to build a team which creates the same offense over 3 or 4 players (with better defense and about the same salary) in event of injuries and slumps. Contracts in the length of 10-15 are asking for trouble
Commenter Gwynning probably has some good thoughts on the matter.
Mookie Betts is a player I’d rather have or of course Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente – many others like Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds (before he used) IMHO
Old enough to remember when Cohen was the boogeyman
Well it won’t matter to them since they aren’t paying Ohtani a fair salary. Might as well and hopefully it truly ruins baseball
CCooper8920: Manfred already has a head start when it comes to ruining baseball.
It is because Manfred had a great teacher name Selig. He was not all that good of a commissioner either.
They will be paying $44M to fund Ohtani’s deferred money for the season next year, on top of the $2M in salary. They ll be charged a total of $46M against their cap.
It is called accrued interest and the time value of money. That $700M is fictious and Ohtani’s contract was strutted in a way to sensationalize him. This is the player who has brought in the most by far in marketing revenue for the past few seasons and will continue to see at least the next few. That is the reason his agent was pushing this type of contract. One that would continue to be talked about .
CCooper8920: The Dodgers offered and Ohtani accepted. That makes it a fair contract and salary by definition.
He’s obviously going to Japan after this season. His family is there, he’s fluent in Japanese, and insists his teammates refer to him as ‘The Samurai’.
Their bullpen is a bunch of reclamation products that are all hot at the same time. It’s like the Braves in ‘21, just playoff baseball.
You haven’t watched the Dodgers over the Friedman years, have you?
Don’t believe this
Thanks but no thanks! Not even close to being worth the amount of money that he’s going to want. I rather resign Teoscar and sign a starting pitcher.
Yep, just re-sign Teoscar, sign Tomoyuki Sugano and Roki Sasaki. Sugano said itself that money wasnt his prime target, but the chance to compete in the Majors and winning the rings would interest him. And Sasaki? Dude made it clear he wants join the Dodgers
No chance unless he agrees to defer.
LOL, How much Boras pay Heyman? Because the Dodgers doesnt not more DH imho
i give respect to the mans offensive skill but watching the series his defense is certainly not elite level. he’s doing fine in NY after behind slightly above averages in SD. rather see LA resign Teo.
Wren: I agree with Soto’s poor defense. Then again, Ohtani doesn’t even play defense and is making more than any player in the history of the game. I also agree that the Dodgers should re-sign Teoscar. What more does he have to do to prove his worth to them?
Why don’t the Dodgers just buy the leage???
* League.
What’s a leage?
They did. League (first name Brandon) played for the Dodgers from 2012-2014. He was so-so.
Dodgers tampering with Soto also?
The Dodgers haven’t said a word. It’s much more likely Boras is whispering in Heyman’s ear.
Of course they are.
Cmon Manfred, sort this out. Let one team buy all the players!!!! Not good
Where have you been when the Padres have done exactly this over the last five years? Machado, Hader, Soto, Bogaerts, Darvish, not to mention rifled through their minors to get players like Cease and extended Tatis as well. Literally everything you’re pissed at the Dodgers for doing, the Padres have been doing for the last few seasons as well.
Plus they get the good relievers, not reclamation projects.
You’re laser focused on the wrong team if you’re using that argument.
I’m a Dodger fan and I think the Marlins have a better chance to sign Soto.
Dodgers won’t pursue Soto, they going let Teoscar walk, sign Adames and add another top of the rotation starter! They need a shortstop, Rojas is way past his prime, he’s a backup bench guy. Good shortstops are hard to come by, outfielders are a dime a dozen and Adames is still young, Dodgers have been connected to him for a couple years now! Teoscar will get his bag elsewhere at age 32
So you don’t think Edman can play short even though he’s done quite well?
@Cards
Edman is not good, he’s not a long term option.
Time will tell. He’s been above average at short this year according to defensive runs saved.
Edmans does the intangibles and is an excellent ss option. Without him the Dodgers aren’t on the precipice of a championship.
Put alot on the Yankees winning it with a bookie based on someone’s advice (doesn’t seem like the type who would be interested in negotiating if the Yankees lose). Please say it was still the right move.
Nice knowing ya, Hendu!
Just tell them it was actually your interpreter who placed the bet….
They’ll do what they did with Harper, offer him a short-term very high annual value contract, which he will turn down because, like Harper, he wants to chase the largest total contract.
As most people would.
Even Harper has expressed regrets on that contract. They floated a renegotiation of the contract which was not well received by the Phillies.
DH is kind of reserved for the next 10 years or so. Dodgers going to hide Soto in LF for 10 years?
That’s what the Giants did with Bonds.
It is what it is (the rich teams are rich and there is no salary cap), but at what point does the disparity start leading to the crippling of the league and lessening even further of the total MLB fanbase? It seems like very shortsightedness of the owners.
Anyone know why Soto prefers to play in the east?
I heard it was proximity to the Dominican Republic and family… but it’s not like I heard him say that.
Closer to his family and the Dominican Republic
I have no idea of why you think he prefers to play in the east. I think he prefers to play wherever they pay him the most. Proximity to family in the DR? Get real; he flies there first class when he goes home.
Oh OK, then carry on having no idea.
I just found something that makes more sense. The vast majority of Dominicans in the US are in the northeast. Most of them in the NYC/New Jersey area. I can see him preferring to be somewhere with a large Dominican population.
Soto has said that he will sign with a team that can cement his legacy by winning a World Series. He has never said he prefers to play on the east coast.
A lot of people complain whether teams spend or don’t spend. Is it any wonder many teams just tune out the fans and spend as little or as much money as they want?
This is no surprise at all. I bet the Dodgers sign him too.
MLB needs a salary cap to put an end to this disparity where the richest markets can buy up all the best players, it narrows the league to 4-6 teams who have a legit shot and every other city is a wild long shot.
All these owners are rich, most of them just prefer to pocket the money instead of investing it in their team…Seriously! Don’t blame owners who are willing to spend!
Just because the owners are rich does not mean THE BUSINESS generates enough to cover these outrageous salaries. These guys didn’t become billionaires by spending more than the income their business generates.
Personal wealth is a whole lot different than what the business beings in. Not sure why a lot of people can’t grasp that.
No salary cap, increase revenue sharing.
Of course the Dodgers will be in on every free agent they can be…while they can offer the money, is there a significant Dominican population in LA that we weren’t aware of which is supposedly one of his lesser known wants in addition to being paid…..who knows…but assuming the Dodgers are courting him while playing against him is silly.
Will remember Soto coming to Dodgers playoff games cheering for Trea Turner, ex Nats teammate. I was convinced Soto was going to the Dodgers then.
Probably not but if that happens the league should really be in trouble. No one outside the dodgers fans are impressed if they win. When you buy everyone your suppose to win. The ironic thing is one of the best moves and why they are winning is Edman.Hes been incredible.
Blows that whole, “buy everybody and win” statement right out of the water, doesn’t it?
How about “get the right people” and win? You think anyone wanted Michael Kopech or Evan Phillips or an Alex Vesia?
Two minor leaguers and Miguel Vargas for Edman and Kopech has turned out pretty well, I’d say.
There needs to be a salary cap in baseball, period!
Dodgers are no good at making players. So gotta buy players
Seriously dude, Dodgers have one the best farm systems in all of baseball, some of their best stars have come from their system, you obviously don’t follow the game much do you?
Don’t forget Karros, Mondesi, Piazza, Lopes, Russell, Fernando, Beltre, I’m just getting started, the list goes on and on and on!
No players listed from World Series roster. World Series roster bought with gambling money
Don’t quest ton my expert tees
Roll tide laundry detergent
Kershaw, Buehler, Smith, May, Gosselin, Seager, Bellinger, except for them right.
List includes players not listed on World Series roster. Des per rat
Ryan”s goal post moving service.
Why include names who aren’t playing for you lmao
Hello? 2020 called. They said Corey Seager doesn’t play for the dodgers in the future.
If they were not on the WS roster, how come Walker Buehler pitched 5 shoutout innings to catcher Will Smith tonight?
Are bellinger and seagee on the roster? No?
Then the list includes players not on the World Series roster. What’s confusing about that?
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
I swear to god if mookie ohtani Freddie and Soto are on the same team I will quit baseball
I don’t want the equivalent of Steph curry klay Thompson Kevin Durant and draymond green
“The “upfront” caveat is necessary since Shohei Ohtani‘s $700MM deal is so heavily deferred that the contract is worth around $437.8MM in present value”
The “present value” of the Ohtani contract is $471M, not $438M.
blogs.fangraphs.com/ohtanigraphs-spreadsheet-editi…
“Actually, they’re legally obligated to set aside $46 million, based on the rules of the CBA, which is another confusing part of this discussion. The formulaic competitive balance tax number ($460 million) is often referred to as present value, and it’s certainly a present value, but it’s not exactly the same as the way I’d think about it. Instead of using market rates, it uses a contractually defined rate, the federal mid-term rate reported by the IRS each year. That’s a different thing than the present value you’d get by discounting at risk-free rates ($470 million).”
That MLBPA’s number is just ridiculous.
$438M, $461M, $471M… everyone is guessing at the future, so the NPV is nothing but an estimate.
NPV is always an estimate because it’s predicting future returns on investment.
gbs42
$438M, $461M, $471M… everyone is guessing at the future, so the NPV is nothing but an estimate.
=============================
I thought the discount rate was based on a government number at the time of the signing?
According to the 2 articles linked in the article that svetlana linked to, the NPV amount is set at the time that the contract is signed.
“Deferred to when I wonder?”
-MLB Gandalf
Who cares about whether or not it’s “fair”. Problem is it’s fu$&ing boring. The dodgers are fu$&ing boring. It’s not intersting to see a team continually buy its success. Teams like Tampa (and I’m not a Rays fan) find a way. Thats interesting.
A lot more interesting and impressive
Fussing?
cry
Budget? What budget?
I can guarantee that Juan Soto will not sign with:
Houston Astros
Chicago White Sox
Miami Marlins
Arizona Diamondbacks
Texas Rangers
Minnesota Twins
Cleveland Guardians
St. Louis Cardinals
Colorado Rockies
Los Angeles Angels
the Athletics
Tampa Bay Rays
did I miss anyone?
You missed the Pirates and Royals.
The Brewers, as well.
Cubs, Reds, Royals, Tigers
Orioles.
The Giants & Mariners.
Denver Broncos
The RS.
The Bears
Da Bears.
This is the first Dodgers/Yankees World series in 43 years. So, spending a lot of money doesn’t guarantee anything.
You are totally correct we’ve had a good run of unexpected teams making playoffs pushes. Even with the Dodgers roster being a good notch above teams can overcome that with better teams being cold and lesser rosters being hot. But the more and more they spend on the cream of the crop like this past offseason the less and less likely that is to happen. Yamamoto was like what 25-26 and Ohtani is perhaps the best pure hitter I’ve seen and oh by the way not too bad of a pitcher which he’ll be next year. If they did something like sign Soto and perhaps bring back Flaherty on a much bigger deal plus other signings not as big but substantial they’ll either have crossed a barrier where they have so many stars they can sustain the injury and luck factor. If half their lineup went cold in a series they may reach a point their opponent can’t outscore them regardless. I think and hope Soto remains a NYY I hate to say but if LA signs him in my opinion the scales will be tipped near or at breaking point. That won’t be good for baseball especially the NL. The NL West next year is basically assured and the WS isn’t over yet in 24. It’s becoming a problem for a lot of small market teams that don’t have any certainty in tv revenue. How do they keep payroll where it is or expand it when they can’t predict what’s coming in. NYY vs the Dodgers is great for ratings until the scale is tipped too long and many markets turn to many other sports option then we have 4-6 markets spending anywhere near that amount. I’ll admit they may have paid a hefty price but they signed a lot of can’t miss guys. Can’t get mad at them but if it stays the same or expands baseball will suffer until there’s real deterrents for teams like the Dodgers. Big markets will surely have an advantage. Its just to what degree and I personally think we are hitting a point that degree is too high
Yes, the WNBA will take over and be more popular than MLB because of superteams.
Oh,for Chrissakes, baseball needs a salary cap!
Get Trout too
Ohtani determines the Dodgers’ offseason plans for the next decade. Part of the conditions of him signing was the team making a real commitment to winning every year, so he suggested deferring his salary so the Dodgers HAVE TO spend money on players.
Ohtani is great friends with Teoscar who’s become a fan favorite (he’s the sunflower seed tosser) and is a positive clubhouse presence whereas Juan Soto is a hot dog and a defensive liability. Yes, he’s a great talent but LA already has talent. Forgive me for being corny but LA has never lacked for talent. They have lacked heart.
My guess is Teoscar returns, a A or B level starter is signed and LA makes a run at some more Japanese players, and this will all make Shohei happy.
This is all fluff. No way this happens. And they aren’t resigning Teoscar either. They hope that Andy Pages will replace him. With that, they still have James Outman and their #1 prospect, Daulton Rushing, has been taking reps in left since they oddly signed Smith to a big deal.
What WILL happen though is the signing of top Japanese pitcher, Roki Sasaki. Like Ohtani, he doesn’t have enough experience in the NPB, so he will be cheap and has to go through the arbitration process. As you see with them now, you see that you can never have enough pitching. Next year they’ll have Yamamoto, Ohtani, Sasaki, Glasnow, Kershaw, Bobby Miller, Tony Gonsolin, Dustin May… And the IL they have River Ryan and Gavin Stone. There’s also the dude they got from the Blue Jays for Lolz Mitch White!
I love everyone freaking out, to me this seems like a way of one team who would be ok with or without him simply playing poker or bidding at an auction simply getting the price to rise higher.
The Dodgers are NOT signing Soto. I’d put it at 0% chance but they could drive the price up and benefit on other FA signings like Burnes and Adames if others back out due to Soto escalation. Their presence could had an extra 100 million to the adventure.
Whatever team ends up with Soto, they will have over-paid a huge amount in terms of AAV and also in length of contract for an at-best, average OF that will become a full-time DH in the very near future.. As to Heyman, all he does is talk and most often it means little to nothing.
The Yankees desperately need to try everything to keep Soto. On the other hand, the Dodgers outfield is atrocious outside of Betts and Teo. And since Betts can play the infield, signing Soto should be the top priority for LA. Yankees and Dodgers are fighting for the World Series title now-will soon be fighting for Soto. Let’s start the bidding at 14 years $500 million?
He has said that he would love to play with Ohtani.
Would you root for WalMart? heck no.
Soto’s next deal is expected to be over $600 million. That is over $500 million, but misses the point of just how much it will be. 14/600 to 15/650. something in that range.
Who cares
Can’t you wait till the world series is over before you starting writing about free agency
Baseball is such a level playing field
People complain that cheap owners don’t spend enough money and in some cases that’s true.
At the same time there is a huge revenue gap between teams.
Teams like the dodgers have local tv deals that pay them well over 200m a year. While others barely make a fraction of that. Until something changes with that gap there will always be a major difference in team spending. It’s not the dodgers fault it’s the system.
For those of you who say every owner is rich and can spend like the dodgers you are forgetting this is still a business. Nobody is going to run a team at a loss continuously. The Dodgers can spend all this money and still make a profit because of their revenue.
That’s good insight for when I do the Free Agent prediction game.
Soto to Dodgers – Freebie
It’s interesting with Soto … “were I him” I would just research/id the team and place I wanted to play and then sign with them, even if it wasn’t the biggest $ amount because it’s more than enough money for the rest of your life, regardless. Factoring in weather, I’d be looking at San Diego.
In fact, I wouldn’t even want the burden of getting the giant 600 million (why not a billion) contract, because of the pressure that brings. In the end, if it’s just the $$$ as the main criteria, then it mainly seems like an ego thing.
Lol..yeah, right.lol
“I wouldn’t even want the burden of getting the giant 600 million”
Ive.never heard anything so idiotic in my.life.
Really? In this country, I see/hear more idiotic things in the “paper” every day. Where have you been?
I’m serious, I’ll take 300-400 million and play exactly where I want, with a bit less pressure and more money available to make my team better. Of course if I really was Soto, I’d do exactly what he does.
I don’t think the Dodgers are going on another 1B spending spree this offseason. The optics of doing that would be awful. They’re going to spend for sure but not set the market again.
We’re at that near time in the off season where “fill in the blank team _____” articles arrive. When does the White Sox’s article on them being in on Soto drop?
Doesn’t seem right that just a couple teams can use projected earnings from next decade to get players now! I hope something happens to those earnings and they start to miss payments in the future.
Doesn’t seem right that just a couple teams can use projected earnings from next decade to get players now!
============================
Every team can do that. It doesn’t matter whether your payroll is $300M or $150M. You can still sign players willing to defer.
That’s basically what SS, pensions, and 401k’s are. You defer a portion of your current year salary in exchange for larger future payments.
If O’s owner Rubenstein meant what he said “next year” Soto would be a great get for the O’s and its young core.
Only 5 of the Top 20 2024 Teams WAR Leaders were acquired through Free agency. 6 were acquired in Trades and 9 came through their organizations and never reached free agency.
Spend on scouting and development, better chance at elite players than spending on free agency.
2024 too 20 WAR
Aaron Judge NYY FA
Bobby Witt Jr
Shohei Ohtani FA
Juan Soto Trade
Gunnar Henderson
Francisco Lindor Trade
Jarren Duran
José Ramírez
Elly De La Cruz
Chris Sale Trade
Ketel Marte Trade
Tarik Skubal
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Matt Chapman FA
William Contreras Trade
Zack Wheeler FA
Cal Raleigh
Jackson Merrill
Yordan Alvarez Trade
Bryce Harper FA
That’s what I have said
Management and scouting talent is critical
But most teams have neither
Like the white sox
That is a specious argument since so many of those were traded for then signed long term, high dollar deals with the team that traded for them. Betts and Lindor and the poster boys for that. Most of the rest have not reached FA yet.
Maybe they can drop another billion, that’d be cool
Of course! These scumbags will never stop. The greediest pigs on the planet. They “need” Soto to feed their animal fans. Just keeping buying superstars just like they’re buying their first legitimate title since 1988.
Also, is Kershaw coming back to d*ddy again next year? Can they stuff yet another purchased superstar into the rotation or eventually do they run out of roster spots?
Juan Soto is a bad character type of guy. In certain cases I would be apprehensive in signing him to a big contract
Anything to keep him off the Yanks
We need a salary cap along with a salary floor. This is just ridiculous. It’s good that the Dodgers are willing to dole out so much money to players but just having every free agent superstar go to one team is not good for the game.
Good,
Let the dodgers give him $600 million
I hope the yanks tell borass to go jump in a lake
I see Soto going to the Dodgers to win a World Series title or a few of them.Just defer his contract just like the others.What baseball needs though is fans to combine their money to buy their favorite teams.Spend said money to produce winning teams.Nobody likes theowners or management of their team.If they became the owners or management,Who could they criticize?Themselves for not doing enough?
The cities build the stadiums.
Maybe cities or non profits like a hospital system. Buy a team?
Why not START THIER OWN LEAGUE?
THAT WOULD.BE AWESOME.
why not?
Mlb would probably sue…..the govt.
I think it a.good.idea.
MLB teams pretend.to.be civic minded.
A.Civic league.
Go.to a baseball game, support.your community like all good Americans should…..
They ( mlb owners) take advantage of that concept….
Take it back!
If the Dodgers outbid everybody else and sign Soto on the heels of a WS victory, I don’t know what other sign fans and owners need to realize the present system needs to be scrapped. Whether it’s a salary cap, a salary floor, a revenue sharing model or something else we haven’t conceived of things cannot go on if this is the next result.
But the damage has already been done. The Dodgers have signed these guys for years and years. They will continue to dominate the sport. The league did not prevent this type of cycle from occurring and here we are. Forced to watch the Dodgers in probably every NLDS over the next 8 years.
I mean, why in the world should they (Dodgers) have to compete on an even playing field?
MLB is an even playing field
Amateurs are drafted instead of open market
Draft Bonus pool money rules are the same for all teams
Player Development opportunity is the same for all teams
Service time and Contract rules including deferred monies are the same for all teams
Free Agent rules are the same for all teams
The Dodgers make just as many under the radar moves like buying Banda from the Guardians AAA team as they do major splashes like Ohtani. They also draft well, scout well, and use analytics well too.
It’s not like they have won 5 WS titles in a row and the game is broken.
I appreciate this. It’s still not even, but it is better than some make it out to be. It is more pronounced this year because it is the NYY v LAD. But last year, it was TX/AZ, and smaller market teams sneak into the WS.
And the draft doesn’t make up for a $300M payroll, but better draft picks for weaker teams creates a virtuous cycle.
Yes and no. Some of the things you list off are accurate in describing a level playing field. But then you do have to ask yourself how many teams can afford a deferred salary of $68 million per season for a 10-year period to a single player. There are only a few teams in the game who can afford such an acquisition unless you turn that deferred money into a much longer period such as 20 or 30 years.
The only teams that can defer salaries are the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees. TX/ARI made it last year because both pushed their salaries to the brink and splurged before likely having a teardown sooner than later. Small market teams have to busy their bank accounts if they want a chance against the overpowered Dodgers.
The only interest Dodgers have in Soto is to make sure the price goes up, just like teams push Ohtani`s and Yamamoto`s contract way up.
Soto´s contract has two mayor problems:
His age (seeking 13-15 years)
His agent (he is going to dance till he gets everything)
I can see Dodgers interested in very short term deal High AAV like 110MM/2. No opt outs no trade clause.
Don’t count Padres out in Soto sweepstakes.
usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nighte…
Now its up to Sheel Seidler and Eric Kutsenda to decide if they are truly going to honor Peter’s legacy.
Ohtani structured his deal specifically for this reason. In fact he bet the dodgers would take this strategy
Just a snapshot of what will happen with salary caps…. Guys collectively agreeing to go to a team and dominate the sport. It’s why football and the NBA has such little parity.
This season Ohtani cost the Dodgers $96.81 million. That is his the $46.1 million AAV for CBT purposes and the CBT fines.
I think that would ruin baseball for a.lot of.people.
Signing Soto would stunt Pages’ career so I’d pass. They should fake interest in Soto to drive his contract up and use their resources to re-sign Buehler and Teoscar and put themselves in a position to make a run at Roki Sasaki when he’s posted.
Soto is getting paid whether or not the Dodgers are involved in the bidding.
They say this every year about every big name free agent, but the Dodgers are actually selective with how they give out big contracts and I sincerely doubt Soto fits that bill.
LAD isn’t signing Soto. They do not sign high-priced Boras guys to long-term deals. Doesn’t happen because they are smart.
They will save their money and buy Roki Sasaki instead.
I agree. I think he’s a priority target for them.
If Sasaki is allowed to come to MLB this offseason, he will be an international free agent and the most he can get is around $5-6 million no matter who he signs with. Technically a team can trade for up to 50% more than their current international free agent pool and even then the Dodgers would be limited to about $6 million.
Probably won’t happen but it would be pretty eye-widening for the league. I have to watch a Rays team that make, collectively, less money than a single player on the Dodgers. And the talent level is reflected in that.
If it happens the league should just separate the league based on big markets and small markets. California teams, Chicago Teams, and New England teams are in one league. The rest are in another league. Then the winners of each league can face off in the World Series.
The Dodgers will continue to set the market for star players. No other team can keep up.
No on Soto. No no no. Sign buehler, sign teo if he’s willing to stay at fair value and maybe go after max Freid. We need arms. Not bats.