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Elias is so close to the vest!!!
You won’t know kw what he and Ziggy the Super Computer are doing until they donit
End of June/early July, I was in the camp that the Os MUST do SOMETHING to address the rotation.
Fast forward 30ish days, and I say stand pat – at least in terms of going all in on a TOR type of guy. The SP has held up really nice. Grayson’s two outings post recall are encouraging. Wells last two starts have been meh – he may be hitting a wall and need an “IL” stint to rest up and conserve innings.
All that said, maybe just add a really solid BP arm or a cheaper (trade capital wise) mid rotation guy and just roll with it. It’s worked up until this point. Two game lead in the ridiculous AL East, which is INSANE. Think about where this team was two years ago n
There is something to be said about not messing up a good thing. New personalities could be toxic to the current make-up. It’s working, let it keep working.
The problem with a young team like the Orioles is the players don’t have multiple full seasons under their belts. How many times have exciting young teams fallen apart in September as the long season starts taking it’s toll? The Orioles would be wise to pick up a solid #4 type pitcher or two on an expiring contract with a history of health to give their staff some extra rest the last couple of months. Also add a versatile bench veteran with a bit of playoff experience. Jurickson Profar and Jordan Montgomery would be good options imho.
They have veterans on the roster with Adam Frazier, James McCann, and Ryan O’Hearn that are experienced and provide that veteran stability. Not sure where John Means is but he should be close to returning.
But many a GM has died on the hill of “wait another year for our young pitching to be ready”….
Poisoned: But maybe they are emerging?
As I said Grayson looks like a whole different pitcher with his latest call up.
Kremer has really emerged after a shaky start to the season. Arguably their best SP of late. People forget he was really solid last year.
Bradish has also been very good. He’s not talked about and vastly underrated.
Gibson is doing what he’s done his whole career. Gives you innings as a solid 2 or 3 type.
Wells is another story. After being great all year, minus his HR rate, he’s faltering of late. He may need his innings managed.
And for that reason they need to bring in another SP. Rich Hill is in anyone’s price range, and he’ll eat innings and keep you in the game. I’d be surprised if they even checked in on the STL starters.
How many players really get to choose their playing role?
Blue – I think when a team considers acquiring a full time player to fill a part time role a couple months before he hits free agency, it’s important the player is on board with it. Nobody wants a malcontent on their team.
Fever.. As awful with the bat as he’s been all season? Should be rarely used P/T by the Sox.
Also see 0 trade value, consider pro rated portion of 10m for this season and he’s a DFA (hope soon) candidate.
Hernandez, a potential malcontent? Even I could accept that characterization of the player, I think you make my point for me. With his production he can’t expect to be a full time player now, let alone one of the few who gets to choose his role.
I’m sure LA just wants to be sure that he’d accept the new role, and not be a cancer in the clubhouse. I would think moving from Boston to First Place LA would make a man happy.
Styme – Depends what they value more, winning or money. Yeah he loves LA and they love him, but does he love them enough to devalue his earning potential by 50%? I guess we may find out. I still say he comes up huge in the postseason, if he gets there.
does he love them enough to devalue his earning potential by 50%?
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He won’t devalue his earnings potential. Other GMs pretty much know exactly what he is by now. If anything, a change of scenery and playing on LA will likely increase his value. A guy like Brasier is likely to land a legit, albeit cheap offer this off-season for having joined LA.
There’s no guarantee that LA will end the season in first place. They did last year, but not the year before. Even if they were to do so, their postseason choking is legendary
Playoffs are a crapshoot kid. Now let the adults here talk and you go sit in the corner and be quiet.
Playoffs might be a crapshoot, but it’s a safer bet if you’re opposing the dodgers, as has been proven, year in and year out.
@iverbure so sorry my comment got under your skin so deep 🙂
L6
A cancer in the clubhouse? Are we talking about the same Enrique Hernandez?
I see about a 0% chance that Ki Ki would be an issue. In fact, I’d make a decent sized wager that he’d take the next flight out and run to the stadium if he had to.
Not sure what else the O’s need to see to invest.
With the Angelos family even after hoisting the World Series trophy Elias would struggle to pry money out their hands as they are too busy fighting amongst themselves
Angelos family disagreement has been over for a while now.
It sounds as though they will be “measured buys” who approach the trading deadline cautiously and wisely, not wanting to blow their farm or foolishly spend Philadelphia-type “stupid money”.
Mlb – Considering the Phillies made it to the WS last year and are essentially tied for the top WC right now, I wouldn’t call their spending foolish. The Mets, Padres and Yankees are way ahead of Philly when it comes to foolish spending.
The owner of the Philly team called it “stupid money”, not me. I just quoted him.
They are waiting for 2028
“Waiting for 2028″…Clearly, you have a crystal ball, why don’t you enlighten the rest of us and tell us all how it’s going to play out?
I was being sarcastic fella. They are in first place in the best division in baseball. They should be trying to win now.
“They should be trying to win now”..Last time I checked, the deadline is still nearly two weeks away, shouldn’t you wait until it passes with no action, before you criticize before the fact. You sound like you have inside information not available to the rest of us. Do tell.
It’s 9 days away last time I checked.
I know why some teams are waiting. My team the Cardinals doesn’t want to sell. Neither does the Mets or the Padres.
But what on earth are the Orioles waiting for????
For all we know, the O’s are on the phone right now, reeling in “Mad Max” or Logan Gilbert, we all gotta wait to see what happens.
Wait and see
Yep that’s the Orioles team motto.
I hope for the sake of the fans they do something. But a lot of these fans seem content to hoard prospects and hope it all adds up.
Summary of last year’s trades at the equivalent date (plus an extra day):
July 25: Red Sox acquire OF Abraham Almonte for cash
July 23: Mets acquire C Michael Perez from Pirates for cash
July 22: Mets acquire 1B/DH Daniel Vogelbach from Pirates for RHP Colin Holderman
I think the inactivity so far is not solely of the Orioles’ volition.
“That’s the Orioles team motto”….I’ve seen enough of your posts, King of Cards, to know that you’re obviously an astute longtime follower of baseball; that being said, MLB has changed in a MAJOR way the last 5+ yrs and this trading deadline will reflect that. I believe we’ll see things we’ve not seen much before; teams that usually sell, buying and teams that usually buy, selling. I don’t think you can just assume it’s the same-O, same O, just because a team hasn’t already emptied it’s farm, nine days before the trade deadline. I think this will be the most interesting deadline in many, many years, but realistically none of us really knows how it’s all going to play out.
I agree that it’s not all on the Orioles. Truly I don’t know what teams are waiting for.
I understand teams have been waiting until the last minute and that’s not the Orioles fault. And I also think this year is a little different because many contenders are new to the game and many non contenders thought they would be contending like the Cardinals.
I don’t see what the hold up is. If you want Jemier Candelerio from the Nationals, for example, what’s the hold up? I know why the Cardinals have waited but I think they are now ready to deal for sure.
Patience! In just nine days we can evaluate how each team fared at the trade deadline. No need to give anyone a failing grade before they’ve even taken the test.
Look Axl I ain’t got no patience!
Seriously nobody is giving them a failing grade. Yet. But I fear the Orioles won’t do what it takes to make a legit run. We will certainly see.
You’ve never negotiated anything before have you? I like seeing overly eager people like you at auctions. Bidding them up on stuff I don’t want just to see them pay a bit more. Then if I get I offer to sell it to them.
Dude these rental players don’t become more valuable as time goes by they become less valuable.
I buy and sell action figures for a living. I do more negotiating than most normal humans do.
Ummm yeah they might. Take stroman for example. If the cubs win the next 6 games and are out of wildcard spot and division by 3 games say his value increases to the Cubs substantially. So much so they don’t trade him. Thus taking him off the market, thus increasing the value of all other rental starters.
Just let the professionals do their jobs they know what they’re doing.
I hope the Cubs keep Stroman. They will be worse off in 2024 and years after for it and that’s all I care about because my Cardinals aren’t winning in 2023 anyways.
Considering the Cubs just beat the Cardinals the last 3 games the opposite happened to the Cardinals. Now there is Montgomery and Flaherty available when if we won the last 3 games there wouldn’t be.
So it kinda balances out man.
It doesn’t because the cardinals SP rentals were always going to be available because the Cardinals were out of contention weeks ago
Completely off on Os fans. Elias’s has been so good that they have complete trust. It’s amusing that writers and fans elsewhere think he and Angelos are under any pressure. They are just amused to wonder where he’ll find the next Bautista, Cano, Coulombe, Bradish, O’Hearn, Tyler Wells, etc.
Writers and fans of other teams should be VERY, VERY worried about any trade with Elias. God help them if a writer calls an Os trade “selling” or “uninspiring”. There’s some All Star buried in the details that Elias found and everyone else missed.
I think the inactivity so far is not solely of the Orioles’ volition.
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100% correct. There are 13 teams that are on the fringes of the playoffs, or pretending to be so. Winning or losing 5 in a row will make their decision for them, but not yet.
I like seeing overly eager people like you at auctions.
=======================
Part of the fun at auctions is having the gut-wrenching patience to wait. Everyone in the world wants some action, but the timing is less important than the value.
A couple of years back, the RS struck early trading for Pivetta & Seabold, since they thought that was going to be their best offer. Two years ago, they waited until the last second for Schwarber and got him dirt cheap.
“trying to win”? As far as I can see, there isn’t a team the O’s couldn’t take a series from right now. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Let me check their math…. computing…. yep, seems it does all add up. Let’s sit and rely on our talent rather than adding a “piece” that might not work with team vibe they have right now.
Orioles are still trying to decide if they are moving to Nashville or not…pretty sad to see how that franchise has been ruined over the years. Looks like fans are showing up after years of poor attendance, maybe ownership takes notice
I’m a Mets fan – couldn’t lose a series last year then blew it at the end of the season. Things can change quickly. Orioles could use some starting pitching no way they will win in the playoffs as is…however I also think it would be prudent to stay the course and see how it plays out if getting a SP means trading good prospects. These guys are all under control for a few more years. Maybe next year try to supplement with vets since there are some good free agent pitchers available. I would be surprised if the orioles spend though.
There are literally no LH middle Infielders the Sox can get that will do anything for them. Odor? Nicky Lopez? Brendan Donovan? Jace Peterson?
Donovan will come at too high an asking price and the rest don’t move the needle at all
Rsox – Can someone explain to me why they are searching for a lefthanded bat when their entire starting OF and both starting corner IF are all lefties? That’s 5 out of 9 for those that can’t count, what am I missing here?
Don’t forget McGuire when he comes back. I don’t get it either, honestly we need guys that can field their positions more than worrying about what hand they hit with
Rsox – I was including McGuire/Wong along with Martin/Duvall in the 4 RHB’s, to go along with the two RH middle infielders.
So why would Bloom be unhappy with 5 LHB and 4 RHB for the primary starting lineup? The majority of pitchers they will be facing are RH, so I would think 5 LHB would be ideal.
The only thing I can think of is if the price to get some SP they want involved mlb level talent headed the ither way that upsets the L/R balance somehow.
It’s a stretch, but, it’s one of the few things that would make sense
Can someone explain to me why they are searching for a lefthanded bat
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I presume it is because Chang, Ki ki, Arroyo & Story are RH. All things being equal, if you could flip one of them for LH equivalent, that would make sense.
The Red Sox need to just jettison Cora’s BFF, Kike. Cora has coddled that guy for the past two seasons and Hernandez barely qualifies to be 25th man on the A’s.
what am I missing here?
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Yeah. What MLB-R reported is not what took place. What MLBR wrote was:
“During an appearance on The Front Office on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM, Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom reiterated that the club was looking for starting pitching at the deadline, as well as a left-handed hitting middle infielder.”
But the tweet that MLBR references says:
“Chaim Bloom CBO #RedSox just shared with us they are looking for a starting pitcher at the trade deadline. The Red Sox could also use a LHH middle infielder to best balance their roster.”
By putting the period after Bloom saying we need an SP, it suggests that Bloom did NOT say that he was looking for a LH MI.
I don’t understand what the Sox are saying about their needs. Boston does not need a LHH middle infielder. They have 5 starters who bat LH already in Devers, Casas, Verdugo, Duran & Yoshida. That’s more than enough LHH for them to match up well against tough RHP and they will have another they can deploy once McGuire comes back from his injury.
If you have all LH batters in the OF, as the Sox do with their starters (the outgoing Duvall aside), then you want a RH batter on the OF bench to come in and pinch hit when needed who can stay in the game and play the OF (Refsnyder). Same with the INF–if the bats are all RH, then you need a LH on the bench to pinch-hit for an infielder from the right side and then play the position (reminder: Reyes bats right). So the comment that the Sox need a LH bat looks strange at first, but makes a certain positional sense.
I’d like to think most of the teams in MLB have finally taken off the rose-colored glasses when looking at Odor. Whatever problem you have, he’s not the solution. I’d rather see them roll the dice on Nicky Lopez if they have to choose one from that bunch.
*Orioles comment* I think Elias would be open to adding a controllable TOR starter but I don’t know of any actually available. It’s all rentals. Last year, Luis Castillo and Pablo Lopez were obvious pieces but this year it’s unclear. Cease would be obvious but is apparently not available, maybe Mitch Keller (if available) knowing the Pirates’ history? There will be a lot of guys in the FA market or maybe they trade for 1 year of Corbin Burnes in the offseason but there’s just nothing obvious at the moment.
Stroman?
100% agree with this take. If Cease were available, he’d be the guy I targeted, but that also means all other contenders would too which would drive up his asking price.
If Elias could pull off Burnes in the off-season, I’m all about that.
wbz: I’m not sure Stroman classifies as TOR, at least in my view. He’s a 2 or 3 to me. Talented for sure, just lacks year over year consistency to be TOR.
Player option for 2024 so essentially a rental with added risk
why would Milwaukee trade its TOR pitching when they are battling for first place?
You must not be familiar with the Brewers. See last year.
Nobody mentioned trading for Burnes at the deadline though because they already said they wouldn’t do that again. He will only have 1 more year left before FA though and he’s been unhappy with their front office so I’m confident he will be available…in the offseason.
stymeedone: like another poster said, the MKE front office totally pissed off Burnes during this past offseason arbitration negotiation period. It got personal and ugly. The have zero chance of signing him to a contract extension, so might as well get something for him other than a draft pick.
Max Fried??
Could be a good option to consider this offseason
Trade for a rental then. Duh
I think Kyle Hendricks would be a nice, quiet pick-up for the O’s. Seems just their style and he has postseason experience.
Cubs need a 3b. Wisdom is sketchy there they need 3b help.
My O’s just need to get me a solid starter for the rotation. Bradish and Wells have done very well so far, even if they don’t have the most consistent track record. Kremer, Gibson and Grayson are a toss up at this point for what you get in a start.
Say what? Bradish, Kremer, and Grayson might be the reliable ones. Wells has been junk for his last two starts.
I questioned the moves last deadline and was wrong. I questioned this past off-season moves and was wrong. Been a great month but shows how fast things can change so I hope they do something to improve but I’m gonna trust whatever moves are or aren’t made
Go – How do you know they made the right decisions last trade deadline? If they had bought instead of sold maybe they make a deep postseason run. Nobody knows.
Considering last year’s deals of Mancini and Lopez enabled Bautista to step into the closing role where he’s thrived, brought in Cano who acts as a bridge to Bautista, and added multiple pitching prospects in Povich, Johnson and McDermott I’d say it’s worked out well. They would have needed to add multiple starters and possibly a bat to challenge last year — way too expensive at that time.
Fever: Judging by the returns on the trades last year, looks like the Os were buyers…at least in Elias and the rest of their FO eyes. It’s all about perspective…
Fever: The trades they did make were excellent. Should they have made others? That is moot.
GoRav114;
I realized how good the Orioles organization was last year. Led by Mike Elias and Sig Mejdal they delegate, empower people under contract, believe in those they continue to employ (including players), and have patience with everyone. It shows in the way they’ve been winning this year – it’s never a core of 3-4 players carrying them, it’s laterally different players pitching in each day
and seems like a different hero each game – tough to strategize against.
I believe the O’s are now established as one of the top quality organizations in MLB – along with the Braves, Astros, Dodgers, and Rays….with the Phillies walking in and out of the door.
Winning in Rotisserie League is trading for the right players whose statistics are going to get hot. Winning in MLB is developing your own players to take actions on the field that help their team win each day – particularly the pitchers. The overall general players statistics may or may not show that….probably won’t.
The O’s continue to baffle the media and most fans that don’t understand the actions the FO takes. Since most of them obviously don’t watch the games, we’ll have to wait until the playoffs before they’re tune in and possibly the light will go on…..with some of them. By time the Hot Stove heats up late in 2023 they’ll be back looking at their spreadsheets, waiting to appoint next seasons Padres, Yankees, Mets, Blue Jays and other big spenders that make glitzy moves as 2024’s powerhouses.
LOL Phillies included on this list,
I was going to post – oriole fans .. trust the process. Trust Elias. You’re in first place because of the process.
“Now for the daily Yankees injury report…we will return to regular programming at the top of the hour.”
Think the yankees should trade every prospect and glayber for Soto.
Yankees are not getting Soto unless some team takes Stanton. Yankees need to learn from the Orioles and build from the draft and do better at player development. Yankees would have no dynasty without the core 4 plus Bernie.
mlbnyyfan;
It’s a lot more than “build[ing] from the draft and do better at player development”. It’s having workable philosophies that all support staffs understand and agree with, being patient with players, and building off their young players strengths instead of forever harping on their weaknesses (although high priced veterans and pet prospects can do whatever they want).
And having a fan base (or lack therof) that can tolerate years of absolute tanking. The yankees will likely never undergo a teardown and rebuild like the o’s just did.
The Yankees don’t have to. They can just buy buy buy
Yes Samuel! Teams used to have their own styles and identities. Now it’s cookie cutter platoon players and moving anyone to a COF position, even though every team has a DH.
“Build from the draft”…In the last 12+ yrs the Yankees have replaced over 45 yrs of seasoned, veteran scouting, training, pitching and batting experts to bring in younger, new-age analytics “gurus” and clearly, the Yankees haven’t accomplished much since.
The Orioles built their current team through high first round draft picks, which means they were one of the worst teams in baseball for 5+ consecutive years. Somehow, I don’t see NY following the same path. Sure they can draft and develop better than they do, but the talent available in the Top 3 picks of most drafts is superior to the talent selected with the 20th – 29th picks in the first round.
“In the top 3 picks”….Not really disagreeing with your central point, but the Dodgers show an astute, nuanced organization can get talent just as good drafting last or nearly last every yr.
The Orioles best player was drafted at #42.
Look at how well the Dodgers have drafted while being one of the winningest teams year in, year out. It’s untrue that winning teams can’t draft future high-quality major leaguers.
The current Orioles are not built on high draft picks. Hays, Mullins, Mountcastle and Rodriguez are from the GM Duquette era. Wells and Santander are Rule fivers. Frazier is an FA. Cano and Bradish and Vavra via trades. Urias and O’Hearn from off the scrap heap as are several bullpen pieces.
So far from the high draft pick era, Rutschman is huge and Henderson is getting there. The jury is still out on the Westburg and Cowers of this group.
@dorothy
The O’s only key contributor that was drafted in the top 5 currently is Adley Rutschman.
Go around the team and look—-O’hearn was a deal for cash. Urias was a FA signing out of Mexico. Henderson was drafted later than the “20-29th pick” Hays was a 3rd rounder. Santander was a R5 pick. Cano was a secondary piece in a trade. Mullins was a late pick. Frazier a FA. The whole rotation currently was not drafted early w/ the exception of Grod, who has not been an impact player for us thus far. Bautista could’ve been plucked out of our system as a R5 guy.
That’s a false narrative at best. Once the top 5 picks all arrive and start performing the team gets that much better.
There was only one year when the yanks built from the draft: when they lost close to 100 games and Steinbrenner was suspended. Other than that year, the Rule 4 draft has never really been their thing.
The Os “build from the draft?”. First place team with 4 key players (Adley, Gunnar, Hays and Baumann) that they drafted, although GRod will become key and Mountcastle might get back there.
They’ve got a wave of drafted talent coming, but they’re the best team in the AL BEFORE it hits.
Best record in the AL, 3rd lowest payroll, the prospects and the financial ability to get any player out there, and we’re gonna sit with a thumb up our hoop. I just love the Angelos family dynasty
This guy gets it
The team is doing its part. Now it’s time for ownership to step up and do something. It can’t always be get em next year. The team is in first place in the best division in baseball. This is a legit contender and making a big move could mean a championship. That’s a big deal.
It’s a shame if that happens because nothing is guaranteed for 2024, no matter what team we’re talking about. If you’re this close, ya gotta grab for the brass ring. At least do something! Don’t just sit there.
Yeah just try. Make a real effort. Use the money you didn’t spend last offseason and make a move.
Nobody is trading Jackson Holliday that’s obvious. But last time I checked the Orioles had 8 prospects in the top 100. You can trade 1 or 2 for a shot at winning it all in 2023.
I think they will. But I also don’t think they’re going to sacrifice anything beyond depth pieces. They aren’t going for a “window”. And that’s the big difference between how you (and so many others) are thinking and how Elias is thinking. Elias has stated his goal is a perennial contender. No way they can pace NYY in payroll. So they have to develop and trade. We’re just getting into the competitive phase, so they aren’t going to trade 10% of future WAR (or whatever) for a slight bump in the 2023 playoff run.
With all the Os prospect capitol they don’t have to settle for rentals either
Rotisserie baseball?? You’re really dating yourself there Samuel. I bet ya Gunnar Henderson doesn’t even know what that is.
Huh? Roto is still HUGE, whether you call it “fantasy” or something else.
Baltimore is good enough to be in 1st place in the AL East. playoffs are a crapshoot. Why deal players with 6 years of controlled salary for a very slightly better chance at a chip. If you are talking about adding Ohtani, I agree take the chance, but a hard pass on trading high end prospects for mediocre rentals.
Why do you assume the team has to make a bad trade in order to make a trade? You made that part up in your head. Every year teams make deals at the deadline. That’s what winning teams do.
Baltimore has an enviable farm system that has a ton of middle infielders and lacks high end starting pitching beyond Grayson Rodriguez. Seems you can probably let someone go to get what you need there. Yes you have 6 years of control, but there are only so many positions.
Exactly. They also have an extra outfielder perhaps but yes middle infield for sure
There is also an issue of team chemistry. Folks complained all off-season about the Os not acquiring more pitching, but they stayed the course and are now #2. Adding outsiders doesn’t always work.
Yes I am sure an ace would screw up team chemistry. Lol.
Once again Elias’ approach is exactly right. They need one more bullpen arm and a mid level starter to take some innings away from the young guys that are at risk of wearing down.
As good as Wells has been he may be tiring already so maybe he moves back to the pen for the last two months. He’s a proven reliever and this will cut back his innings…
Who’s pitching game 1 of a playoff series?
If you had to pick right now, probably Gibson.
If you’re asking who I’d guess it would be come playoff time I’m going with GRod. Save for a couple of mistakes, he’s looked like a completely different pitcher this go around. Flexing his TOR stuff.
If you’d asked me a month ago, I’d have said Wells, but he appears to be tiring. He’s still tied for the ML lead in WHIP – even with today’s outing.
And thats simply not good enough. Shoot are any of those guys on innings limits? A lot of the Orioles are in uncharted territory from an innings perspective I believe. Once you get into the postseason that’s even more innings.
I think the Orioles need someone at the top of the rotation. A Stroman he would be good.
King: You’re saying it’s not good enough, but hasn’t it been thus far? I mean sure there is no Cole, Gausman, etc but their BP is so good it’s worked out well. Their SP is very middle of the pack looking at the numbers. 38% quality starts (avg is 35) and 5.3 IP/start (avg is 5.2).
It may not look great on paper or be what armchair GMs want, but it’s worked for BAL
Wells has proven himself to be a valuable starter.
Yeah, I’m not exactly going to sperg out if Elias doesn’t trade away 6 years of a top 100 prospect for 2 months of a mid-rotation starter so that the Buster Olneys and Ken Rosenthals write nice things about him on Twitter. It would definitely be nice to snag a big rotation upgrade but if Elias and his numbers guys decide the cost exceeds the reward in what appears to be an extreme sellers’ market, I’ll trust their judgement.
Dude that mid rotation arm could be the difference between winning it all and losing.
The Cardinals traded Rasmus for Edwin Jackson Octavio Dotel and someone else I can’t remember. And that was the difference in winning it all that year.
When you have a chance you have to go for it. No you don’t have to go “all in”. You don’t have to trade Glyber Torres for Chapman. But do you think the Cubs wouldn’t do the same thing again if they could? Flags fly forever.
You’re not getting Cowser for Montgomery no matter how much you whine on here about the Orioles needing to go ALL IN THIS YEAR, so get over it lol.
Where do you make up this stuff that one trade was the difference in winning it all?
Fact is most deadline moves don’t move the needle whatsoever, in fact most flop. These brilliant Ivy League gms are against taking risks. And the longer they don’t have to and gather more information the better for them to make an informed decision. This is why nothing has happened so far because nobody wants to set the market. This isn’t the days of drunken gms writing trades on napkins.
I said they don’t need to go all in dude. But yeah if Cowser was the difference between legit championship contender and what the Orioles are now you should trade Cowser. Trading Cowser isn’t going all in. Trading Holliday would be. Did you know his dad used to play for the Cardinals? Just kidding. Sort of….
2011. I saw it with my own eyes I didn’t make it up. That 1 trade changed the entire team. I watched every game that year I went to 30. I was there the whole way through.
When was the last time the Orioles won a championship? Early 80s? Late 70s? I really don’t know.
I’ve forgot more about baseball than you’ll ever know in your life. Just kidding actually no I’m not.
So when was the last time the Orioles won it all? I am sure you don’t have to look it up.
Maybe you should like your own comment.
2015 Blue Jays, Iverbure?
You’re right. Anthopoulos basically traded 5 guys for 5 guys, quickly got rid of 4 of them because Colby Rasmus was supposed to be the impact player, much like today’s Daulton Varsho. Meanwhile the Cards got a starter and two bullpen arms that came up big. Add a healthy Carpenter and you ran the table.
That trade never happens, no 2011 World Series win.
But yeah if Cowser was the difference between legit championship contender and what the Orioles are now you should trade Cowser.
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That’s fine in theory, but who are you going to get for Cowser, and how much will that player help? Or more importantly, how many difference-makers are there on the block?
I’m fine with trading Cowser for the right return also.
Mullins has CF nailed down for the foreseeable future. (Hurt now but Hicks is a better ML’er than Cowser today) Hays and Samatander can cover the corners until we see Kjerstad/Mayo etc.
But that player would have to be a Dylan Cease or something. A controllable starter that would make the team better now and for at least 2 more seasons. Otherwise you hang onto Cowser and acquire a cheaper pitching upgrade.
Montgomery, Hicks and Graceffo for Cowser. That’s a starter who is probably the Orioles designated ace. That’s a reliever with big time upside and a pitching prospect who is big league ready to help the Orioles long term
I would do that. Cowser is a very good fit for the Cardinals needs.
Cowser isn’t enough for Cease. Look at trade simulator. It has no bias.
Dylan Cease is not going to be traded for one player: it would be Cowser + Norby/Basallo etc. the idea is that he is the headliner and you fill in from there.
Not going to happen anyway but that’s where I’d be fine with moving him.
Why do you use the trade simulator when it fits your narrative you’re trying to get over but then say nobody uses it when it goes against what you’re saying?
I have never said nobody uses it. I never said that you made that up in an effort to win the internet.
Strowman I think a trade could be made with Cowser and more for Cease. But the White Sox have to actually be willing to trade Ceaae and I don’t know that they are.
Why not just get Giolito? You probably don’t need Cowser for that. Pretty sure the White Sox need middle infielders. They need a lot of things but middle infielders yeah I think so.
Giolito will be costly and an expensive rental is against our M.O.
Eventually we’ll use some of the blocked prospects for trades but it won’t be for rental starters. The O’s can make some noise this year and the next 5 years. They’re not going to start tossing away the bigger chips for 2 months of a guy at this point in the timeline.
They’d probably be interested in a Cease or a Keller etc. someone who will be helping our future teams and is cost controlled. If that guy’s not available at the deadline then they’ll acquire cheaper help.
This a team about development. The o’s make players better. That’s why Ryan O’hearn is a good ML’er and Aaron Hicks is a starting outfielder again. They identify talent that isn’t being used correctly and use it that way.
Like the Rays or Stros. That’s why those teams are interesting to watch. Not the teams like the Mets who pay top dollar for Scherzer and Verlander and watch them hit a wall.
The O’s and cardinals will not line up for a major trade though. The cardinals need minor league pitching and the O’s have little of that to trade away. The cards don’t need anymore infielders and the O’s have a surplus of those.
Your team M O has led to losing baseball. So it’s time to get with the program and do what winning teams do.
Who do you think Giolito is going to require??? Westburg???? Woopty doo.
Don’t the Orioles already have lots kf cost controlled arms in their rotation? It’s ok to spend some money. Trust me.
It can’t always be about development. The Rays are gonna make moves wait and see. The Astros have a big payroll. And the Cardinals spend and develop both.
At some point you gotta win games.
The O’s have more wins than 28 other teams in baseball…..Think I’ll take their philosophy.
Throwing away 6 years of Westburg for Giolito is idiotic. That’s just not reality. You’ll see in time what their plan is. You’ll probably have your jaw on the floor when they’re winning games with Kyle Bradish and Kyle Gibson & turn some underperforming reliever into Yennier Cano.
Cards really spent well this off-season lemme tell ya. Waino flushed $17MM down the toilet & Contreras flushed another 92.5.
I’ll be much happier with extensions of good young players rather than wasting cash on veteran FA’s & pricey rentals.
Dude the Orioles are not a legit contender without some help. Other contenders are going to make moves. If the Orioles don’t they will be left in the dust.
This is how winning baseball works.
No the Cardinals did not spend wisely last offseason at all. But at least they are trying. They went and got Goldschmidt and Arenado they didn’t sit there and hoard prospects acting like tomorrow is coming when it never does.
If you think Westburg isn’t worth Giolito you are nuts.
If the Orioles don’t they will be left in the dust.
==========================
Who will be leaving them in the dust? Hopefully my RS leave them in the dust, but i am not overly hopeful.
IRT Goldy & /Arenado, it feels like you are simultaneously arguing that the Os aren’t going anywhere without more stars, even though more stars didn’t get the Cards over the top.
His replies basically just contradict his previous post it’s really amusing
That’s because the Cards didn’t use their young talent to trade for pitching. Baltimore needs a SP and probably another bullpen arm.
The item says “a pair of Yankees injury updates” and then only updates us on Torres. Mark must have been in a hurry to get to the chat.
There was an update on Nestor as well.
Ah, so there is. He confused me by putting it under a separate bullet point rather than also under the one that talked about a “pair”.
And it is funny how the iPhone tries hard to keep me from typing the word “bullet”.
O’s vs. Braves is the dream matchup
News flash: O’s fans are happy.
Zero Orioles fans were upset we traded Lopez and Mancini. Those trades made sense.
What was frustrating is right after the trades when Elias said ‘they’d be targeting a big splash in FA’ and then we did nothing different financially.
But overall, Orioles fans don’t criticize anything Elias does because he is GOATED.
I agree – nobody is upset at Lopez and Mancini not being on the tea this year.
We missed Jorge at the end of last year. But that was our Jorge Lopez. Not the twins version. That deal was obviously a huge W.
Maybe we get Jorge back this off-season and fix him. I would think he’s a non tender candidate by MIN.
The O’s have the luxury of time. Their young core isn’t going anywhere, so they can afford to not go crazy this deadline. Kne school of thought says they are pretty close as is. I would target two starters and perhaps one other bat that can be had for a reasonable price.
O’s might not make many big moves at this deadline. The big moves might happen with some arbitration-eligible players this offseason to make room for the guys knocking on the door. Not saying they will do this. They MIGHT do that.
What they do need is a top starting pitcher or two. What they also have is a ton of depth with position players.
I still expect Elias to trade surplus veterans for pitching prospects. Organizational pitching depth is the Orioles’ true weakness at this point. The team seems inclined to sort through GRod, Irvin and Means (when he returns), for the final rotation spot.
With Ortiz needing a longer look and Kjerstad, Mayo and Norby all close to the majors, the only real imperative is to sort through the position player logjam.
I just don’t see the Orioles making a move beyond picking up middle relief in exchange for a low to mid level guy on their prospect list who probably wouldn’t have much of a crack at the team. Moving a high level prospect for a big splash just seems extremely unlikely.
The problem is, I don’t think they have the horses (SPs) to make it down the stretch. Regression and innings are catching up to Wells. Kremer has gone from bad to average, but will it stick? Will Grayson Rodriguez build on two fairly positive starts since coming back up? That’s pretty shaky my friends. A stretch fade to finish out of the playoffs is still possible, though you have to look at the chasing teams and see they’re also dealing with their own issues, injuries, etc.
I don’t see them making any moves for offense, I think they are happy with depth and their platooning. Hopefully they stay healthy.
One player can make a difference. In 1996, a .500 Orioles team traded for Eddie Murray and ended up making a stretch run to 88 wins and a wild card. And I don’t trust the process for anyone ever since Syd Thrift said “give me 3 years” and was bragging when the Orioles hit 63-63 in August…only to go 4-32 down the stretch and Syd didn’t make it back for a 4th.
This is exactly how I had hoped we would approach the trade deadline. Don’t want rentals, don’t want to give up any top prospects. Sure up the bullpen, add a mid starter maybe…and ride it out.
Don’t get it twisted.
The Orioles fans are PLEASED!
You can’t wipe the smile off the faces of the Orioles fans.
Don’t be bringing up old weird revisionist history stuff.
In Elias We Trust
Diego Cartaya, Catcher Dodgers and Jonny
Deluca, OF
For
Giancarlo Stanton and Isiah Kiner-Falefa,INF
Cashman make moves!!!
Bickford sucks.
Bickford for a bag of peanuts would be a good trade.