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Bring on the anti-union tirades.
Hardly anybody is just straight-up against them, it is the extremes that get people going. We have union workers near me in San Pedro that make over $250k per year to operate a crane at the port. The whole operation is run just like the mob, you’ve got to know somebody to get in but once you’re in you’re family. And it’s been like that forever.
Nobody is against average people being treated relatively fairly.
@yetipro the reason operators get paid what they get paid especially crane guys. as someone who works in the field (union carpenter) when anything is lifted by a crane there is a lot of risk involved. the biggest risk is lifting heavy loads to an area you can’t see and your relaying on someone else to direct to your end goal. btw if the operator messes up while booming a load 2 things can happen people are killed or damages to the project are so extreme that it could bankrupt a contractor.
I’m not making any statement as to why they shouldn’t be paid well, I’m saying that the operators in one location making 3x as much as an operator at another, all the while completing about 1/3 of the work, are simply a few data points pointing toward corruption. Particularly when the one making 3x as much is on worldwide news for months with politicians begging them to do a better job. There are a litany of data points & articles over many years showing that it is in essence a mob operation, complete with false “lotteries” for jobs & all. I’m not even anti-union, anyway.
@yetipro you make good points, but as someone who works in the same industry as operators, the pay scale differs depending on the area and if you do commercial work or residential, or what part of the country you work in. i can tell you first hand a carpenter (my trade btw) in my home state mo the pay scale varies big time depending on where your at in mo. i live in the stl area so i get a better wage and if i get sent somewhere in mo with a lower wage than i get in stl, i still get my stl wage (unless the area i’m at there wage is higher then i get that wage). now i will agree with you on one point, a lot of the unions have developed that mob mentality and seem to care about there pockets than the people there to help protect. just like anything else this issue with unions is like a grandfather clock, the pendulum is going to swing to one side or the other and unions are either look great or with egg on there face. atm were wearing egg face but we did to ourselves by getting fat, stupid, and drunk.
Crane Operation is serious business. You do not want anyone straight off the street operating a crane I assure you. Super cool/critical job in my opinion
@trumbo i couldn’t agree more being one of them guys that are bringing a load in or rigging it up to be transported. when the crane operator is moving anything most of the time they are doing it blind and relying on other trades that need the crane telling them how to move, things can get pretty hairy quickly and that’s just one part of it, the other big factors is the environment, i.e. wind speeds, load sizes, center of gravity of the load, ect. as someone that works with operators daily moving anything with a crane as simple as it sounds is very dangerous. just like you stated i don’t want some joe schmoo of the street “booming” heavy loads any ware need me unless they know what the bleep they are doing
I would hope that NOBODY would think any of the aforementioned is anything close to being considered “simple.” Whenever I happen to see a crane at work I pretty much always stop and just gawk in awe haha Gauging wind speeds sounds incredibly fun with a major load (sarcasm) haha
@trumbo unfortunately with the lot of us in the construction field complacently is our biggest enemy next to time. most of the worst accidents on a job site happens because you get to comfortable and you cut corners because of time, or your to green and was given a task out of your skill range. regardless the last thing you want is some joe off the streets running your carne or hooking up the load, or signaling for that matter.
Definitely sounds like skill and concentration/focus are paramount to the profession.
@trumbo there is, sadly i’m no exception because i found myself being complacent, and doing unsafe stuff to get the job done. even thou i know better i still do dumb stuff on the job site because i just say, “i’ve done this so many times the wrong way and was fine so i can do it again”, long and short of that story yes i did get away with it but at the same time i “lucked out” doing dumb stuff and things went south and by either luck or god (or whatever higher power you believe in) that what should of been a bad/career ending injury i wound up with a scratch. then again it’s also the reason anyone who is a union construction workers are paid very well and it’s because at any moment today could be your last, most of us in the field take it for granted because we’re numb to it we deal with it every day.
That’s called being trained to do a job. They didnt wake up one morning and have a gift to operate a crane.
Agreed. Still super impressive skill-set though huh?
Hey Robin Hood, maybe use a different choice of words..
@big even though a lot of unions have given themselves a black eye, i can at least say with the construction unions in stl area we are very well trained. most of the training comes from the job but 99% of the people in charge aren’t going to have a rookie do anything that could hurt someone. i definitely agree with you doing anything in my field requires training
“Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son.” -Dean Wermer
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt” – Sun Tzu
All port crane operators in the US belong to the same union. The International Longshore and Warehouse Union.
They make the same amount of money depending on if they work in a permanent location or are day workers. From $200k to $250k per year.
You are basing your opinion on one article quoting truck drivers that ran in the tabloid, Washington Examiner.
Actually, plenty are just that, and you’ll find them in every discussion on the subject, including this one.
Like the AFL-CIO killed the American auto industry? One of the biggest segments of the US economy for over half a century.
American cars today are primarily built out of the country. One of the Big 3 is owned by an Italian holding company. However, there are numerous foreign owned auto companies in America turning out world class cars; even exporting them along with component parts to the rest of the world. Employees are happy and making fine livings. They aren’t unionized.
On the other hand – the AFL-CIO now handles government unions. Just try to fire an incompetent in Washington, DC. – where the average government employees salary is now between $110-125k a year, the benefits are pretty much unavailable to workers in the private sector, and come economic downturns none of them ever get laid-off.
Sweet.
In the late 70’s I left the city I grew up in for multiple reasons. One was that we couldn’t shop at grocery stores past 6pm and on Sunday’s because they were run by unions. The workers wanted to be home with their families at night, and on Sunday’s. So everyone else with families had to either go shopping on Saturday or overpay at a convenience store.
Got out of there.
The actual story is that afl-cio and other unions were designed to get the rank and file blue collar workers access to a more appropriate piece of the profit pie. When the ultra rich owners realized they could make their cars and products for lower costs in other countries and increase their unfairly large profit margins, they moved production. It’s simply ridiculous to blame the masses for wanting small increases in their quality of life that are denied by the small group of people who hoard obscene amounts of excess wealth that does no good for the problems on the planet.
What amount of money constitutes a fair profit margin? Is it a dollar value or a percentage and who decides what that figure is?
your wrong on imports made in the states aren’t unionized is wrong, just about every import manufacturer in the states have uaw workers in there plants. where a lot of working class union workers hate imports is because the profits don’t come back to the usa but the home country of the manufacturer. i’ll give you this point that mindset is rapidly changing because the lot of us are getting tired of going to the big 3 overpaying for a crappy product and in 3 years have to replace it, but i can buy an import treat it like trash, get better options without breaking the bank, or buy a big 3 and get a crappy product that barely makes it past warranty.
Do you think most Americans have any clue that Dodge Ram with their “All-American” pseudo-military ads (“Built to Serve”) is a foreign-owned company?
I did not but not a fan of a Ram truck so to me it doesn’t matter. The issue is the average American only cares about the globalization of the market when it is told to us that it hurts us.
And the 2500/3500 HD are made in Mexico. (At least, as of 2021). There are two Ram truck plants in US, one Mexico.
I’m one of those “buy American” jerks. Both my pickups are American assembled. It is interesting what pickups are made/assembled in the US. For example, the Toyota Tundra is made in Texas, but the Tacomas are made in Mexico (production shifted from Texas in 2021).
All 3 auto makers were mis-handled greatly by the managements. Ford a little less so. When made good cars accountants leading the companies killed them. Oppulence of 50’s building heavy but not really safe cars made them believing ‘If we build them they will buy.’
Most foreign automobile manufacturers are unionized at-home and in U.S. They are simply better managed.
@aragon….Good points. Wait…is this section of comments really taken from comments on a Munro video?
Aragon
Ford never took bailout money. Seems to me that they were head and shoulders above GM and Chrysler.
Some industries are walking and talking billboards for negating the power of Union honchoes Samuel. The US Steel and Auto industry are 2 primo examples, textiles also a minor.. All destroyed by union crushing power trips 50y ago and would gladly be thrown before the alter again if they could stumble upon some kind of comeback.
Steel and textiles ran for 3rd world havens, while US automakers, as well as some foreign companies headed for the deep south.. Free of union nonsense and also offshore 3rd world havens to get labor cheaper.
Union membership, even still forced in many blue states has been falling for decades and with very good reason.
How about the “ah-ha, it’s not about me or the game, I’m just the sucker that makes everyone else rich” tirades? That’s nothing but truth…
How about the “ah-ha, it’s not about me, the game or anything else other than me being the sucker that makes everyone else rich” tirades? That all truth…
Ok, how about the “ah-ha, it’s not about me, the game or anything else other than me being the sucker that makes everyone else rich” tirades? That all truth…
Felt like news that would be reported by a man of the workers, Craig Calcatarra
He’s a hack.
Apparently they don’t want us to post any comments.
You posted the same ridiculous comment multiple times with slight different wording.
Sarcasm? You posted like twenty.
I am sure there will now be a coffee break every 3 innings.
Not sure what, if anything, the MLBPA has in common with AFL-CIO.
Arnold Ziffel;
Check out a list of the organizations the AFL-CIO represents today by searching easily on the Internet.
They pretty much ruined most industries their workers were in, so their membership dwindled when those companies had to be downsized.
Wrong. Those industries ruined themselves by their own greed. Living in Michigan all my life saw business after business leave the state for the south due to that greed. Then they left the south to go to Mexico because of that greed. Nw moving to China because of that greed. Stop blaming workers for wanting fair treatment and fair wages. Blame greedy business owners.
It’s definitely the greedy business owners. It couldn’t possibly be the taxes, governmental inefficiency, or union regulations.
tigerdoc – This is the biggest misunderstanding that many people have about business and profit. If you’re a public corporation, your job is to be competitive and make a profit for your shareholders. The markets are global and your competitors are global too. If you’re going to survive and thrive as a corporation, you have to be competitive which means keeping costs in check. So, companies are always looking for ways to cut costs and finding locations with lower taxes, more efficient labor, better work rules, etc. achieves this.
If you want to keep corporations in your state, you need to provide an environment for them to be successful. Unfortunately, our state and federal governments didn’t (and many still don’t) understand this and instead made it harder and harder to make a profit. Union rules also didn’t help because they drove inefficiency by setting up ridiculous limitations on workforce management and flexibility while commanding very high pay levels.
So, when nottinghamforest commented, “It couldn’t possibly be the taxes, governmental inefficiency, or union regulations”, he hits the nail on the head.
Shareholders….. Seemingly more important than the customer and craftsmen making the product possible. How many companies have gone public only to see profit goals ruin the product? Greed is the problem.
Who went to China with Nixon? heads of the largest corporations. They are the ones who moved manufacturing to China or any other countries with cheal labor. When union workers lost jobs they lost buying power. governments
had to provide them extra income not to ruin the ecconomy.
A union for the minor leaguers sounds logical. Just not sure the MLB players have a commonality of interest.
This is very weird, imo.
Good. The only way American workers will begin to crawl out of the hole they’ve been shoved into since the 70’s through ownership’s relentless — and successful — brainwashing of workers to hate unions, is a resurgence of the union movement in this country.
So anyone who is not part of a union is incapable of being successful?
Is that your version of logic?
I’m asking a legitimate question. You seemed to suggest that life has been miserable for anyone foolish enough to believe anti-union propaganda. Did I misunderstand what seems to be very clearly laid out in your statement?
I guess I have to quote you: “So anyone who is not part of a union is incapable of being successful?”
That’s a nonsense question. Ownership has certainly been successful. Lots of small business owners have been successful. The question misses the point.
American wages have stagnated for decades. American workers enjoy far fewer benefits, get lower wages, work longer hours, and have far less job security than workers in every advanced, industrialized nation in Europe. Why? Because those European workers are unionized and most American workers aren’t.
An American worker can make a comfortable living in a non-union shop, but the decimation of the union movement in this country has entirely benefited ownership at the expense of labor. And American workers have been brainwashed by management and their political errand boys into hating unions and voting consistently against their own and their families’ best interests.
As an economist, I strongly disagree, but we’re not going to solve this here and now so we’ll just leave it at that for now.
Uh-huh.
Economist? I think you meant “Charlatan.”
Unions that represent and advocate for workers are generally good. The skepticism comes from unions in the past that did very little, were way out of touch, and were corrupt and/or tied to organized crime.
The mob are ruthless thugs. They bullied their way into the unions, and it was law enforcement’s job to prosecute them and get them out. I think “On the Waterfront” was a pretty fair depiction of the bind that the members of mob-held unions were in.
The mob also muscled their way into the construction industry; they dominated the gaming industry in Las Vegas, Reno and Atlantic City; they corrupted police departments and politicians; and they corrupted the financial industry to run securities scams and launder money.
When I was a kid, a neighbor tried to hire an independent contractor to pick up their family’s trash. The neighbor told my parents that the poor guy came to their door one day soon afterwards, his face all beaten-up, to tell them he couldn’t pick up their trash anymore: “You didn’t tell me you already had the other outfit picking up your trash before.”
I don’t blame the union members. I blame the mob, and law enforcement and politicians who wouldn’t stand up to them and/or got in bed with them.
Fink there is a great Simpsons episode where Grandpa talks about the “strike busting days.” Classic stuff.
Exactly.
Reminds me of the old Alan Sherman song, “Beautiful teamsters, please let me join. I can’t drive a truck but I’m willing to loin.”
The mob wormed their way into a lot of things in their heyday. Unions didn’t invent the mob. Unions and their members were some of the many victims of these criminal conspiracies.
Grandpa Simpson: “Well we can’t bust heads like we used to but we have our ways..Sometimes you just tell stories that go nowhere..”
Next will be the “baseball players bill of rights”…
The AFL-CIO has sucked the life out of everything it has touched. Sorry to hear this news, but not surprised.
Enjoy your daily triple venti latte from union-busting Starbucks or cheap books purchased through the equally anti-union Amazon.
Interesting. But I think it shows how serious the MLBPA is in organizing the minor league players. Good. Well past due.
I simply take this step as an open acknowledgment that even Tony Clark knows he’s terrible at his job, so instead of surrendering it, he’s getting help from other people who do it better.
Haha YC I don’t even remember you having a profile pic before. Good stuff haha
Clark admitted that 6 years ago when he hired Bruce Meyer to do all the negotiating.
Ah so the mafia is getting involved now…..
Well beside the some crooked umps throwing games
Mobs found ways to make money not being involved in unions or killing each other.
They are invesing money to make money like everyone else.
Cosplay.
Unions = communism. Communism = failure.
SMH
Did you have a good time on Labor Day?
The National Association for the Protection of Labour was established in England in 1830. The Communist Manifesto wasn’t published until 1848. The first labor strike in the U.S. was organized by a union of printers in Philadelphia in 1786, 32 years before Marx was born.
But, hey — many people are saying that serfdom was a great arrangement and workers had it better back then.
It’s amazing how many people are afraid to think independently or actually read a book on a given subject these days.
“Unions are bad because the guy on TV told me they are…” smh
Red – that’s possibly the most misinformed statement on here
Who else was both anti-union and anti-Communist? The NSDAP in Germany, the ruling party of a Thousand-Year Reich whose totalitarian regime ended in ruins.
Who else was both anti-union and anti-communist? The NSDAP, ruling party of the Third Reich.
Tony Clark has done a great job of turning the MLBPA into a political organization, and now he seals the deal.
It was Clark who was the driving force behind the removal of the ASG from Atlanta, after Georgia dared to install reasonable voter integrity rules, similar to those in most other states, because “racism and suppression.”
Those laws weren’t made for any other reason than Trump breaking his hymen because he lost, legit lost.
@MJFox, you may not be aware because of the ‘new’ biology being taught, but men don’t have hymens…
LOL The multi-millionaires union needs help from the rank and file blue collar union.
This is rich, no pun intended.
Did you not read the article about the majority of minor leaguers voting to designate MLBPU as their union.
Apparently the minor league ballplayers were deceived into voting to join, or their belief it would improve their situation is delusional. No other possible explanation!
I want to see if the MLB players start going on strike in solidarity with their union brothers if they go out on strike. Do they also plan on giving money to support woke social causes? They really seem to want to turn the remaining customers off to the game of baseball.
I’d like to say “go woke, go broke”, but it’s clear with many of the comments here that even baseball fandom (and apparently enough baseball players, too) has been ruined by the new progressive left that has to interject its politics into everything and force everyone to accept its worldview. Why can’t at least baseball be left alone. Most sports have already been ruined and baseball is well on its way. Sad.
LMAO! Take a look at yourself in a mirror once in a while.
@aragon, my views were not force interjected into culture for generations, hence where we are today. Just because there is now a competition for how to structure society between right and wrong and good and evil, people like you are trying to play ‘whataboutism’. Sorry, bud, but we’re headed for division in all facets of life, even silly things like sports. This is thanks to activists on the left, not to people on the right.
Aragon your Swastika is showing.
Pure horse hockey, and another perfect example of someone doing exactly what they accuse others of doing.
@blue, sorry, but it’s the left that’s guilty of projection. Conservatives have only begun to fight back and we’re now stuck with a bifurcated future thanks to the left. Show me the evidence that culture was inundated with conservative views over the last several generations. Alternatively, progressive ideals have been pushing culture for generations, including and most sadly to me, in sports. I’d love to just talk about how the Dodgers get more out of their previously mediocre pitchers than Padres, but we have Roberts and Kapler (and the Popovichs and Kerrs) using their popularity and platforms to lecture society on how we need to be more woke.
Howl at the moon much?
@blue, well that’s a reference I don’t get. Are you calling me a werewolf? An ad hominum (and a weak one at that) does not advance your argument. I guess you agree that only the left has been pushing their agenda in places it doesn’t belong. Glad we agree and can get back to baseball. You think May will walk a lot of Padres tonight like last time or do you think he’ll strike out more than 10?
Don’t you think it’s brazenly hypocritical to post your own political screed and then complain about politics on a baseball message board, PhDPad? Looks like you want to be the exception to your own rules.
@fink, fair enough. However, my desire to get back to only baseball discussions keeps getting interrupted by woke garbage. My initial reason for adding this comment here also includes a lament that a large number of fans apparently support this ‘stuff’. If I say nothing, it could be interpreted as tacit acceptance by all fans. It’s kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation.
How about this deal: you convince MLB.TV to stop pushing their horrible ‘science mom’, pubic hair shaving jingles, and CohnReznick ESG garbage commercials on me while I’m trying to simply watch a game (especially when the Dodgers are embarrassing my Padres again) and I’ll refrain from injecting comments on politics here at MLBTR.
Why should I complain to MLB.TV about what bothers you? Do you not know how to mute commercials, or would that deprive you of the joy of playing the victim and having things to complain about?
Looks like the spirit of discord is having it’s way in MLB.
Proverbs 20:3
It is honorable for a man to resolve a dispute,
but any fool can get himself into a quarrel.
“Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.” – James 5:4
“The rich rules over the poor,
and the borrower is the slave of the lender.
Whoever sows injustice will reap calamity,
and the rod of his fury will fail.” – Proverbs 22:7-8
“Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth,
or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.” – Proverbs 22:16
“Do you see a man skillful in his work?
He will stand before kings;
he will not stand before obscure men.” – Proverbs 22:29
Fink, all appropriate. Appreciate the reminders.
The issue for me is the contentiousness of the relationship between the two that’s been in place.
It’s a picture of how the enemy has has a stronghold. People open the door, lay the welcome mat out & in he comes, laughing at how easily he can accomplish his mission of steal, kill & destroy.
“Your hand-to-hand combat is not with human beings, but with the highest principalities and authorities operating in rebellion under the heavenly realms. For they are a powerful class of demon-gods and evil spirits that hold this dark world in bondage.”
Ephesians 6:12 TPT
All due respect, you’re using scripture inappropriately to define labor negotiations as a satanic activity. Please don’t do that. Worse, you’re literally demonizing workers. I trust you remember who said: “The worker is worthy of his wages.”
Fink, I’m for both the players & owners. This isn’t about Labor Negotiations to me, nor am I demonizing either side. To me, it’s the spirit of darkness operating against both sides. It’s what the enemy does.
He endeavors to make his way into relationships. He’s the master at dividing people through lies & deception. Marriages, businesses & on-line baseball communities like ours. He doesn’t care. As long as he can destroy what God has said is good.
Every one of the people in this community is important to me. I don’t have to see or meet them in person to do spiritual battle on their behalf when the enemy is coming against them.
I’m for the Players to be treated fairly, commensurate with the the value they create, both at the MILB & MLB levels. That includes staff, coaches & all personnel.
I’m for the owners who provide an opportunity for all those who are a part of the game. I desire that they profit, so more can be invested in not only the game, but supply resources to those outside the game.
I’m only against one. The father of lies, the deceiver & his minions. I have no place for him & am completely intolerant of his activities.
Blessings on you, brother.
When workers negotiate for their share of a profitable activity, they’re not responding to promptings from the Devil. Not every dispute is evidence of a satanic stratagem. Paul disputed with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Was he acting under the influence of the Devil?
If you see everything through that lens, you’re in danger of entering the same territory as fanatics burning witches in the colonies and torturing mentally ill people suffering from chemical imbalances in their brains to exorcise imaginary demons when none are at work.
This sort of thing isn’t limited to Christian cultures, btw. I read a case of a shaman in Thailand who beat a woman to death with the tail of a stingray to “exorcise” the supposed demon inside her. In reality, she had suffered from a motor disorder that made her appear to be mentally ill.
I must say, regardless of one’s position on the issue at-hand, I throughly enjoy, appreciate, and applaud taking a position from a biblical perspective and using Scripture as the basis for that opinion. What a welcome, refreshing change from the more common morally relative, subjective perspectives that typically pervade these conversations.
Enjoyed the read guys, thanks.