TODAY: A Marlins source disputes the idea that Jeter left the organization over a change in future spending plans, The Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson reports. There were several other “issues” between Jeter and majority owner Bruce Sherman, including Sherman’s displeasure at low attendance for home games. Sherman had decided against extending Jeter’s contract and thus the parting between the two sides “was more…Sherman’s decision than Jeter’s,” even if it was portrayed as a mutual decision since “Sherman had told an associate it would be difficult for him to publicly fire Jeter.”
FEBRUARY 28: Derek Jeter’s abrupt departure from the Marlins organization earlier this morning stunned the baseball world. Jeter’s citing of a “vision for the future of the franchise is different than the one I signed up to lead” prompted plenty of speculation about the team’s spending moving forward, and Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that a change in spending plans indeed served as a tipping point for Jeter (Twitter link). Sherman suggests that Jeter believed there to be as much as $15MM to spend on the 2022 roster after the lockout, but that outlook “evaporated” over the course of the lockout.
MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reports that the Marlins were in serious talks with Miami native Nick Castellanos about a homecoming prior to the lockout. The Athletic’s C. Trent Rosecrans tweets that he’d consistently heard the Marlins were the favorites to sign Castellanos. Those two reports, paired with Sherman’s report, seem to suggest that such a signing is no longer feasible for the Fish. (As an aside, many expect Castellanos to command more than $15MM annually, although the Marlins could have theoretically backloaded a deal to accommodate ownership’s 2022 budget.)
SportsGrid’s Craig Mish tweets that the Marlins are still expected to add to the roster after the lockout, but it seems that perhaps principal owner Bruce Sherman’s vision for the scope of those (and other) forthcoming additions has changed. Discord between Jeter and Sherman has been brewing for a good while longer than just these past couple of months, however, per ESPN’s Buster Olney (Twitter link), who tweets that there was a “growing divide” dating back to last spring. The mounting differences between Jeter and Sherman, Olney adds, were a key reason that Jeter’s ownership stake in the team did not grow as it had been expected to.
Whether there’d been friction between Jeter and Sherman prior to early 2021 isn’t clear, but if that’s where the pair’s visions began to diverge, there’d be a pretty logical explanation for it. Shortly after Sherman and Jeter’s group purchased the Marlins, the Miami Herald obtained a copy of the team’s pitch to prospective investors, including future spending plans. Some payroll reductions were always in the offing, as evidenced by the quick dismantling of an All-Star outfield (Christian Yelich, Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna), but those moves were made with the intention of ramping payroll back up down the line.
The Marlins’ Opening Day payroll in 2018 sat just under $100MM, but that number dipped to $72MM in 2019 and was again at that $73MM level in 2020 (prior to prorating salaries) before dropping to $56MM in 2021. The revenue losses from that pandemic-impacted 2020 season changed the direction of many organizations (e.g. Reds, Guardians, D-backs), and it’s certainly feasible that Sherman’s own willingness to spend was impacted as well.
To be clear, the Marlins have spent this offseason. Avisail Garcia’s four-year, $53.5MM deal is one of the largest free-agent contracts they’ve ever handed out, and the team doled out extensions to both Sandy Alcantara and Miguel Rojas while also acquiring Joey Wendle and Jacob Stallings. That said, Miami’s projected payroll for the forthcoming season is still under $70MM, and if ownership sought to curtail available resources for the 2022, as Sherman reports, it’s possible future seasons would also be impacted.
As ESPN’s Marly Rivera reminds (Twitter link), Jeter spoke favorably about his former organization’s front office, noting that the Yankees are always on the hunt to improve. “I’ve said it before, the Steinbrenner family, from the Boss to Hal, they’re always trying to get better, get better, get better, and they don’t hesitate to make big moves,” Jeter said at the time. Yankee fans may disagree in light of the team’s quiet pre-lockout period, but Jeter’s general tenor this past July does not sound like one that would align with a sudden tightening of the purse strings.
Across social media, players have taken Jeter’s departure as what they perceive as another example of the issues they’re fighting for in labor talks with the league. Astros catcher Jason Castro, one of the eight members on the MLBPA’s executive subcommittee, tweeted a “Re2pect” message to Jeter and used the hashtag “#CompetitiveIntegrity” as well. As ESPN’s Alden Goznalez writes, players perceive a disconnect between ownership pushing for the status quo in revenue sharing, the luxury tax, etc. in the name of competitive balance and Jeter departing largely because of questions regarding the rest of ownership’s “financial commitment to the roster.”
Marlins shortstop Miguel Rojas, the team’s clubhouse leader and unofficial captain, spoke to Jomboy’s Chris Rose today in the wake of Jeter’s sudden departure (Instagram video). “Derek Jeter was looking to win — looking to win this year,” said Rojas. “We all know that in order to be able to win, you need to put a better product on the field, which is what they were doing before the lockout started.”
Rojas praised the team for extending Alcantara but noted that last season, there were virtually no players other than himself on multi-year deals. (Reliever Anthony Bass was also on a small two-year contract.) Extending Rojas and signing Garcia were undoubtedly well-received among the players on the roster, but Rojas expressed questions, doubt and general sadness in speaking with Rose.
“I don’t know about the money situation,” Rojas said after being asked about the Post report that changes in payroll expectation led to Jeter’s departure. “I don’t know about promises of a better payroll or anything like that. I just heard something that they said — that this is the time to take the next step. It’s our time to take the next step in this ’build’ that they promised. … It was time to make the move to get not just a better team, but better quality up and down the organization. I don’t know what happened.
“…At the end of the day, I have a lot of questions. There’s some things that have to be communicated after this thing’s over, because we as the players, we want to be respected and informed what’s going on. I know not everything is going to be shared with the players, but at the end of the day, you at least want to know where you’re going.”
So the owners plan on being skinflint pennypinchers, even with a new CBA.
Burn it down. Rebuild from the ashes.
The Marlins are better. They have a bunch of great near ready prospects. What’s wrong with waiting until the prospects make it to the majors and actually prove they are ready before spending the money, though? It sounds smarter to me than signing players and just hoping the prospects will come up soon and be ready when they do. Whatever money they decide it to spend now they can always spend later. If the prospects end up not being ready or going bust, spending the money now could actually hurt their rebuild more than it would help. I definitely think the Marlins should eventually spend more money but I would rather teams wait until they know for a fact that the rebuild was successful and over before they start spending it. If some of these guys don’t plan out they need to keep rebuilding. It’s not usually a great idea to spend a bunch of cash during a rebuild. Save it for when you know for a fact the rebuild is over. It is really doubtful the Marlins will finish above 4th place next season no matter how much they spend. No one wants to blow a bunch of money on a 4th place team. Wait until the prospects are seasoned enough that you know they can be a first place team.
Hammer I disagree if reports are true that Marlins will not spend $85 million in 2022. Why sign Avi to that contract if they are now done?
If neither team spends a penny more, Marlins look better than the Phillies and way better than the Nationals.
I agree
What’s wrong is that they will do what they have always done. This is an organization that blew up their team the year after winning a World Series… twice*. Then they traded away every member of arguably the best outfield in the league at that time in a six-week span during the 2017-18 offseason. The Marlins are not interested in long-term success or investing in the on-field product, as evidenced by their track record.
Keep in mind that 2017 outfield never lead to a playoff appearance let alone a winning season.
Stanton’s contract and no trade clause needed to be moved and was a good deal for the Marlins. They had no pitching.
Only the Yelich trade turned out to be garbage.
when Jeter came in they had a monster outfield…. They needed starting pitching… Yelich had a monster 2018 & 2019….they didn’t need to initially tear it down. Sherman spent the money to buy the franchise, but tearing it down the initial year was disappointing….Actually They need a solid personnel baseball guy now that Jeter is gone… I’m glad Jeter is gone…Jeter’s fame should have been used to work the local community to get people in the Miami ballpark… he failed initially, and didn’t use his fame to romance the fans at the gate…that’s Jeter’s failure…I’m a loyal Marlins fan…
@mstrchef13: That’s not very good logic. You’re basically saying “I want the Marlins to spend the money now because if they don’t I don’t believe they will spend the money later.” If what you are saying is true there is no point in wanting them to spend the money now. If they won’t spend money when the time is right they certainly won’t do it now. Don’t ever root for a team to spend money at the wrong time just because you don’t believe they will be willing to spend it at the right time. If they were to do as you say and spend the money now it would prove they would have also likely been willing to spend it at the right time. At that point they just made a mistake by spending their money at a time when it wasn’t as beneficial as it could have been later. That is the kind of stuff Reds and Phillies fans were saying when those teams started spending money before the rebuild was over. They just wanted them to spend money because they felt the rebuild was taking too long and they didn’t believe it would ever be fully completed or something. Look at where those teams are now. Expensive players in the roster and little or no supporting cast to help them enough to even make that matter. Keep rebuilding until the rebuild is done. No matter how long it takes. Only when the players you acquired during the rebuild prove they can at least get you to the playoffs on their own should you spend your money to push the team over the top. That’s how you win a championship. I know the Phillies botched their rebuild but that’s exactly why they needed to keep rebuilding. They needed to put someone else in charge and continue rebuilding until the rebuild was over. The Phillies spent their money well on players like Harper, Realmuto and Wheeler but it didn’t even matter because the core wasn’t good enough for those guys to make them serious contenders. Some rebuilds take longer than others but spending all your money too early hurts your chances of winning it more than it helps. If they had saved that money until after they continued rebuilding long enough to get a good core they would be in much better shape.
@beerncheese: The Garcia contract was a little puzzling on the surface. I guess their thinking was that he isn’t too expensive and they had a big hole there. So if they have a miracle season and all these prospects are suddenly ready right now Garcia could be the difference since they had no one else for that position. I think it’s pretty clear signing Garcia does not mean the Marlins are 100% “going for it” this year. They will wisely wait until their prospects are more seasoned and proven. I like the Garcia signing to when the Braves signed Markakis. The Braves signed Markakis to be a corner outfielder at the beginning of their rebuild. They knew they weren’t going to win it all but they needed an outfielder after losing Heyward, Upton and Upton. They decided to sign Markakis as a strong veteran presence with stability so the young guys could rely on him and learn from him. I think the Marlins are kind of thinking that way with Garcia and they are further along in their rebuild than the Braves were when they signed Markakis. They are hoping Garcia can teach the young inexperienced guys a few things to help them grow and if or when that happens is when they will start really spending money like they are going for it. The Marlins are a pretty heartless organization but they are also a pretty smart organization. I don’t think they will do like the Reds and Phillies and just decide their rebuild is over and start spending like it before their prospects have proven it at the major league level. Functioning like that never works out. Look at how the Braves just won the World Series. They didn’t stop their rebuild until after the core won the division for them. Even that first year where they started this division title streak was considered a rebuild year. They were acquiring bad contracts like Adrian Gonzalez, Scott Kazmir and Bronson Arroyo just to get prospects and save future money. You don’t do that unless you are rebuilding. That’s how a rebuild is done the right way. They waited until the young core won the division for them before they stopped rebuilding. That’s how they won 4 straight division titles and eventually the World Series. I’m surprised every team isn’t mimicking that rebuilding process every time they rebuild. I know it takes longer sometimes to build up the core that gets you there. You have to stay the course though and keep rebuilding as long as it takes until it happens. That’s how you win a championship. That’s how the Rays got so good. That’s how the Brewers got so good. That’s how the Astros got so good. That’s even go the Cubs won their last World Series. Every team should be doing that every time they rebuild no matter how long it takes. Patience wins you a championship. Impatience never does.
So your argument is don’t spend money until the rebuild is done, then go on to laud the Braves for signing Markakis at the beginning of it to add veteran presence?
There have been some outstanding successes with rebuilds like the Astros and Cubs but acting like that strategy is a given isn’t accurate – ask any Pirates fan.
The Rays aren’t a rebuild example – they just trade anyone that’s going to cost money. They do a great job of that – a number of their key guys now came in such deals. But they’ve simply never spent money.
Nor are the Brewers. Their system hasn’t been rated well for a number of years – even before their recent stretch of successful seasons. They hit on some drafted guys and had some acquisitions pan out way above expectations – Urias & Adames last season for example. They’re built on a pitching core that happened to click at the same time – but they have been more of an ongoing retool than a rebuild. And among that core are Woodruff, Burnes, drafted in the 11th and 4th rounds respectively. Among the 7 drafted players on their projected 26 man roster. Only Devin Willams is a core contributor drafted in the 1st or 2nd round (Hiura still trying to stick, Ty Taylor more of a 4th OF). Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Cut payroll in ’15 and ’16 and had some rougher seasons around then but they had some bad contracts to work out from under..
The point is that teams can afford to fill short term holes with moderately priced FAs in hopes they don’t quite suck so badly and then maybe flip some for added pieces going forward. That doesn’t mean its wasted money, even if all moves don’t work. Because all moves don’t work.
Frankly Miami isn’t sitting on such a pool of prospects they can simply ride that off into the sunset. Good depth of young pitching. But they have plenty of holes in their lineup they’re trying to fill without prospects ready to emerge from their system. Hence having to bring in Wendle to back up in the IF and so they can probably use Anderson in the OF more – where things even with Garcia don’t look great, When is their rebuild looking to be “completed”? Aside from some fluky short season success in 2020, they haven’t gotten to .500 since 2009. When is it time?
And the Miami org comment on Sherman being upset about low attendance and being upset with Jeter over that is simply laughable org CYA.
If fans came out because of their Front Office the Rays would sell out every night. Fans haven’t come because the team has sucked, and that’s because Sherman tore it down – again – following in Loria’s footsteps.
Oh and those OF rebuild trades the Marlins executed? Stanton brought back Starlyn Castro (gone), Jose Devers a grade 40 prospect, and Jorge Guzman who left as a minors FA this offseason. Yelich? Lew Brinson and Jordan Yamamoto (gone) and Monte Harrison and Isan Diaz – still trying to find their way. At least the Ozuna trade had a decent payback – bringing Sandy Alcantara, Zac Gallen (later flipped for Jazz Chisholm), a depth piece in Dan Castano, and the departed as a minors FA Mag Sierra.
Wow, Marlins need stable ownership… stable management…. Huizenga dismantled a championship team… Henry couldn’t get a ballpark, escaped to Boston, Luria meddled too much, no consistency in payroll from year to year… Sherman/ Jeter divorce, another owner who spends money to buy the team, then small market mindset… Hey, Marlins have the pitching this year, if they ever start spring training, season assess what they have hitting wise, they can make trades in season… Garcia signing, Wendell trade was a great get, other tweaks ok. Anderson has to stay healthy, and hit this year, wherever they play him. Need to react in season to hitting needs…. this strike season is not normal, Jeter was looking for an exit, need a real baseball Personnel new school analytics geek… Marlins can assess what they have in spring training…I give a pass on Sherman this time, but they can increase the payroll with in season trades when needed…. Remain a big time Marlins fan…. A few fans in the stadium would help….
Dude. I didn’t “laud” the Braves for signing Markakis. I don’t even know if it was necessary. My point was that I think that’s similar to what the Marlins are doing by signing Garcia. The Marlins move is probably better than the Markakis signing. Not because of the player but because of the timing. I was specifically talking to the guy I replied to because he seems to think that the Garcia signing should mean that the Marlins should go on a spending spree right now. I was pointing out that isn’t always the case. Especially with a 4th place team like the Marlins. Just like the Braves were a 4th place team when they signed Markakis.
Also… The Rays spent decades as the worst team in baseball. You know how they got to where they are now? They started a rebuild and never stopped. They keep rebuilding and it keeps working. They only win because they never hamstring the franchise by handing out contracts. They are the best example. If you continuously rebuild and never get impatient and blow money you can win. The Rays spent 20 years doing that. They never got caught up in a stupid Giancarlo Stanton or Jacoby Ellsbury contract along the way. That’s why they are able to stay such a good team.
wow extra credit?
book publishing….skip!
We have to get past the day of expecting the avg fan to pay $200 to see rebuilds…even if that’s an intelligent model. It kills fan interest. It’s one thing of the process works…another to watch an organization never arrive. Those aren’t rebuilding ticket and concession prices.
@mr walnuts
Inflation is high. Consumer confidence is low. The failure of MLB and the PA to come to an agreement is having an effect on future income. It’s got to be a hard sell on season tickets when you can’t guarantee a season. This stand off is costing fans/paying customers. Of course this was going to have an effect on how much teams would have to spend on players. Payroll is a percentage of revenue and if the work stoppage effects revenue, it will effect payroll. Most other costs can’t be changed. Please don’t tell me that this caught any of the owners, the PA, or Mr Jeter off guard.
MLB payroll is not determined by a percentage of revenue like it is in every other major sport in the US. The MLB owners would not agree to open their books to make that possible.
@ outinlf
Whether they are opening the books or not, payroll is a percentage of revenue if you want a solvent business. The owners see the books and they are the ones budgeting.
Televise AAA games. I’ll watch…
@ Paulie Walnuts I take it the new cba isn’t coming soon enough and games will be missed. Owner will pass hos loses onto the players. Jeter disagreed and wanted to spend anyways to contend.
Like they did in the NHL? They lost an entire season to a labor stoppage. Today in the NHL the players are guaranteed 50% of total revenue and minimum salary is $750k. There is a salary cap and floor. There is 100% revenue sharing by the teams as opposed to the 48% as in MLB. I am sure the player’s union would love it, but not so sure the MLB owners would agree to that.
If that’s a good deal for the MLBPA, then why they aren’t proposing that? It seems like it would be an easy PR win for them, as it would certainly put the onus on the owners.
@goob: you are right. The owners are the ones dying for that revenue sharing deal and give the players 50% of the revenue. It’s the players who are against it because they say “it’s too much like a salary cap.” It really is the most fair way to do things but they are refusing to do it that way while demanding owners give them more money in other areas. It’s ridiculous. Just do it like NHL, NFL and NBA. They all do it that way and they don’t have nearly as many CBA problems as MLB. But baseball players refuse to take the same deal those athletes do and still whine more than any of them because “baseball players are so special.” So much more special than football players, basketball players or hockey players? No. I disagree. Tell them to take the same deal all the other professional athletes take or tell them to take a walk. Max Scherzer finished the season injured and still got a salary $18 million higher than Tom Brady. Then he whines more than any athlete in any other sport. Baseball has a problem and they need to take advantage of this work stoppage to make sure they rectify it.
They have proposed it. Several times in the past. The owners shot it down. Learn about the history of the CBA negotiations first, then comment next time.
That’s not true at all. It’s the exact opposite. I have literally seen quotes from the MLBPA explaining why they won’t do it and saying it’s “too much like a salary cap.” You are making stuff up. Post a source.
Outinleftfield: In all honesty, I would support the union a lot more if what you said were true. But I know it’s not true. You know it’s not true. Maybe you don’t. You are only saying that because you hope the union is that reasonable so you don’t have to look into it and realize they are not. Prove it to me though. I’m pretty outspoken against some of the things the union is doing. If you can prove to me what you just said is true it would probably flip me to the union side as long as their aren’t some ridiculous caveats or something. So go ahead, outinleftfield. Prove you aren’t a liar and make me a union supporter at the same time. All you have to do is post a link to prove that the statement you made is true. Or are you one of those guys spreading fake news to get people against the owners even if you have to lie to do it?
cant till 2045 city and county will have rights to sure mlb and team owners. every beady wanted him as owner. except me
i weather had miami billio air who was trying to buy team.
only reason current got the marlins cause commissioner was a jeter fan.
instead of doing right thing.
Good move, Derek. Stand with winning and stand with the players.
Derek to the Mets to take over for Sandy
Keep Jeter away from the Mets, let Cohen work with the current team and management. The Yankees won when Steinbrenner was banished and Michael used the kids to bring the Yankees from life…Jeter being one of the kids….
You’re safe, baseball geek. Jeter is aware of his legacy in NY. He wouldn’t go to the Mets. Beyond that, Cohen clearly wants Yankees, which is why Eppler and Showalter are there. Needs to upgrade professionalism. Adding someone with Jeter’s drive is exactly what Cohen would want, but as I started out saying, Jeter would pass.
i hope jeter stey away for good. cause if what was said about him true.
said nobody wanted to be the one to speak out about it. jeter is a hard ass to work for and he treat people like jerks
[i hope jeter stey away for good. cause if what was said about him true.
said nobody wanted to be the one to speak out about it. jeter is a hard ass to work for and he treat people like jerks
he’s standing with his career future
Marlins are probably expecting worse than normal attendance coming out of the lockout and are pocketing as much money as they can. This is also why owners will never suugest or accept a salary floor. $15 million in payroll flexibility isn’t a lot by any means but it could probably buy a couple of pieces.
This is exactly why they should become the New Orleans Gators.
Miami is not a Major League baseball town.
hopefully soon.
NOLA could support an mlb team, just need a riverfront stadium. and a reason tourists to visit in june-august.
Jeter didnt accomplish much as CEO. Theo, with his eyes closed revamped boston’s team and area and revamped wrigleyville (though for the corporate)
$15 million is nothing to bark about in MLB these days.
Jeter didnt accomplish much as CEO. Theo, with his eyes closed (and open wallet and complete control to baseball activities) revamped boston’s team and area and revamped wrigleyville (though for the corporate)
fixed it for you.
…and a retractable roof.
Good for Jeter. Seems like a guy that probably doesn’t have to put up with anything he doesn’t want to.
Marlins gon Marlin
And again, the only people truly hurt from this is… us, the fans. Everyone stop watching and going to games. Teach them a lesson
I think that’s already happening in Miami
(I’d just posted this on the earlier Jeter report, when this new report appeared.)
As Jeter is now an ex-owner/shareholder (and presumably free to speak his mind) I wonder if he’d care to weigh-in on the current CBA conflict. He might have some interesting things to say, especially at this moment in time, having lived in both worlds.
Good point, goob. It would be interesting to hear or read Jeter’s thoughts on the impasse.
Jeter has probably said everything he’s going to say. Not one to stir up controversy.
goob, not if he ever wants to be an owner again…they would never approve him if he ran his mouth
One consistent thing about the Guppies is that no matter who owns them, they will not do what it takes to put a contender on the field..It’s all about the Benjamin’s..Things just remain the same, year in and year out..This team needs to get out of South Florida..
This is a young talented team and the farm is loaded with arms..They are in perfect position to get it done, and they just can’t pull the trigger..
This makes me happy for Jeter. Sad for Marlins fans and fans in general.
So many on this site adept at spending someone else’s $$.
Lol. Isn’t that the point — who’s money it is? Once a fan buys a ticket I doubt most of them want a majority of it to go to someone they never see.
Dave, the point is trying to live in reality while building a fantasy of what your team should do. Expecting an owner to spend their money as if money doesn’t matter is just dumb. It isn’t reality. It’s not about who deserves this or that. Someone wanna be a working class warrior let them complain about minimum wage, not this. Here what many of us do is imagine a PRACTICAL budget for a team and build a team with it. It’s about theoretical roster construction, not an opportunity to misplace feelings of anger and ambivalence towards the rich (owners, cuz somehow the players seem to remain “employees”.)
You mean like team owners spending taxpayer money to build a sports stadium?
That’s your politician’s fault, not the owner. The owner is just the benefactor, but the politician blessed the deal!
Suck more owner pole
Manny, one thing has nothing to do with the other, but nice shot across the bow.
They’re content being a AAAA operation and one of the gripes pitched by the MLBPA about teams refusing to spend to be competitive.
If this is true, I don’t blame Jeter at all. The Marlins were aggressive before the lockout. They looked poised to make moves. If they’re suddenly putting on the breaks, then it’s a waste of good talent.
i hope jeter stey away for good. cause if what was said about him true.
said nobody wanted to be the one to speak out about it. jeter is a hard ass to work for and he treat people like jerks
like owner said it was more than that it was about attended ( jeter turn down biggest ticket buyer marlins man / offer to buy three season jeter said no) jersey sale be last in sale move logo and colors. jersey under lora color logo rank 14 ,13,16. and their where people complaining behind sen jeter hard to get along with
Translation:
“I can’t do this with these slime balls anymore.”
Always seemed like an odd fit to me given the Marlins history being completely devoid of any loyalty to their fans OR players. Jeets too good for them
Jeter is the one that has shown that lack of loyalty to fans and players both over the last 5 years, as he has torn the team down. Evidently he was not “too good for them”.
Ehhh, Idk man. Just because the team needed to be rebuilt and he made that happen, doesn’t mean that he would not stay loyal to the hypothetically successful team in the future.
Playoff team in 2020. From last to near the top in farm system rankings. One of the top pitching staff’s in baseball and they are young. They are not that far away from contending. With that staff and all the arms they have in the minors, Ng is on board. She is brilliant. Jeter left them in a good position. With $61 million 2022 payroll as of today and more than $130 million per season increase in revenue over the past couple of seasons, the Marlins can certainly afford to spend much more.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but making the playoffs in 2020 is not really an indication of much.
Its an indication that they won more than they lost while facing the same issues every team did, maybe more since they had the most players hit the COVID list.
Sure. I’m not trying to devalue the 2020 season. I just mean a fringe playoff team in a shortened season with expanded playoffs shouldn’t necessarily bank on being a contender in 2021.
lmao, the Marlins sneaking into the playoffs at 31-29 in an insane, COVID-shortened season, then getting swept out of the playoffs in the first round, is indicative of nothing. Especially when they went out in 2021 and put up a 67-95 record, good for 5th worst in baseball.
All of your other points are good, provided the Marlins stay the course, but the playoff thing in 2020 means nothing. It was 60 games and they were 2 games over .500 (the Brewers and Astros made the playoffs despite being under .500, too). For reference, after 60 games last year, the Mets were 35-25 and leading their division, and we all saw what happened there. ‘Playoff team in 2020’ is meaningless.
When a team is subsidized by MLB to not spend money, and as a result, won’t make moves, even at the cost of being competitive…Jeter was slammed years ago for getting rid of high priced talent. If this report is true, he’s learned how much power a “minority owner” had, and it’s not a lot. Marlins will need to to do a Tampa or they will be wallowing around the 70 win mark.
Derek Jeter spent too many years on the Steinbrenner-run Yankees. He’s so used to win-now that a team that never wants to contend (unless they luck into it) was likely a shock to his system. And the abruptness of his departure tells me he likely saw the new ownership side of baseball: World Series, eh, too rich for my blood… I’ll settle for a nice above .500 record and call it a year.
“players perceive a disconnect between ownership pushing for the status quo in revenue sharing, the luxury tax, etc. in the name of competitive balance and Jeter departing largely because of questions regarding the rest of ownership’s “financial commitment to the roster.”
=======================================
As I’ve said all along, the players insistence on less revenue is antithetical to increased competition.
If, for example, the owners agreed to cut revenue-sharing by $20M, where do the players think that revenue will be made up from? It’s going to come from the payroll. Owners like Sherman will just match $20M less in revenue with $20M less in spending.
It ain’t rocket science.
Apparently it is.
Dude wanted to spend on the offense to compliment the young pitching.
&Yankee Clipper had this one figured out right away, man.
Quitters never win and winners never quit.
You figure it out. I’ve had it with baseball.
Jeter won quite handily. He spent $38 million in 2017 for 4% share of a team that was sold for $1.2 billion. Meaning his 4% share was worth $48 million immediately. He got paid more than $20 million over the 4+ years he was with the team. He just sold all his shares in the team and the team is now estimated to be worth $1.4 billion. Even at the initial share value, its a $10 million profit for Jeter. At market value its closer to an $18 million profit. Since he was not required to sell, I would bet Sherman paid a premium for Jeter’s shares in the Marlins.
“ Quitters never win and winners never quit.”
So, you’re quitting…..baseball?
No, my last season was 1998 and my team was terrible. Plus, the league was kind of struggling as well. At the time it was the oldest league in NJ, but it’s gone now. Playing amateur baseball as an adult was pretty great in the early nineties, there were a lot of competitive leagues. The baseball world in NJ has changed, more travel teams and some have become big operations, We had high school and college players all over our league, they’ve gone elsewhere.
After baseball, I got back into marathons and I’ve completed about 20 more of them. Even races have become different. A lot of for profit organizations have replaced running clubs, entry fees go up, the social interaction has been replaced by everyone wearing ear pods. So I stopped bothering with races.
At least there’s still music, even though the pandemic has crushed it somewhat. I can still play my jazz gigs and get pocket change for them. So I haven’t given up on everything. I fondly remember Kevin Millar walking around the Fenway field in 2004 saying, “Don’t let us win tonight.” History is made by people who don’t quit.
Jeter tore down the team with the expectations that as soon as the outlook improved, the team would go back to spending. This was the vision he spread to investors and fans.
Now, it sounds like the Marlins’ owner is not fulfilling his end of the bargain. Jeter staked his reputation on the rebuild, and the Marlins, after a playoff appearance and a multitude of young pitching on the horizon, could add another name free agent now to energize the fan base and show the fans exactly what he meant.
It isn’t happening, Marlins fans. These are the MLB owners. Pocket first even when revenue is available; pocket first even when the team could be competitive.
Jeter will probably come back as a player like Michael Jordan did with Washington. Try to drive up ticket sales and increase the franchise value.
It was obvious from the beginning when Jeter was pleading to the fans that they would spend that they would never spend
It’s more profitable to lose with a low payroll
“ more profitable to lose with a low payroll”
It deserves repeating.
So, where did all the people from the other article go saying it wasn’t about Jeter wanting to spend more? Man, miss those little rascals.
It was clear they were wrong. All Jeter cares about is winning. Once he knew his owner cared less, he decided to move on. Have no idea where he’ll land though.
Jeter and Epstein partner to buy a team or to push for an expansion team.
Interesting theory. I think Jeter would need some guarantee so he’s not in the same position again with a majority owner. I’m sure he doesn’t like his name / rep being used like Miami did.
Marlins are and always will be a joke. And a bad one at that. If the MLB put a floor on salaries they would just pay Martin Prado more. They got a little lucky on some trades but forgot that you can never win a game 0-0. Just seeing the pitching heavy team makes me wonder if they even understand how the game is played. Just fold already please.
Jeter leaving didn’t “STUN” the baseball world. What’s “stunning” the baseball world is a chance of no baseball this season or a shortened season because of cheap billionaires and millionaires
There’s a reason Jeter’s in my top 5 non-Phillies of my childhood. Stuff like this. Guy’s a winner and always has been.
So… what’s this BS about EXPANSION?
A load of.ceap isn’t it?
Yeah…I said it….it’s a load of crepes….
We already have several teams who can’t compete, that refused to field competitors….
What the help so we need more for???????
Gee…..I wonder what that absolute genius of a GM,. Al Avila is doing today……
Something really, really smart I bet……
Hopefully Jeter can replace Boone as the Yankee manager. Jeter would make a great manager. As much as of a cheater A Rod is, he would also be a great managerial candidate
Hal Steinbrenner’s willingness to spend $ has never been an issue with many fans, including myself. What is, and has been, an issue is Brian Cashman’s poor allocation of plentiful resources. See the annual salaries of Chapman, Britton and Aaron Hicks
MLB and Jeter “backed the wrong horse” in going with Bruce Sherman the retired
hedge fund guy for the New Marlins ownership group.
Miami billionaire Jorge Mas was a local, minority, Miami based billionaire businessman who has deep roots in the Miami community. He was planning on spending money
to field a very competitive Marlins team.
Bruce Sherman appears to be the new boss same as the old boss kind of owner.
This is concern of mine. Here is what I posted on the other article yesterday.
As a Marlins fan, my initial thoughts are as follows (without any of the details we may hear later or may never hear):
1 – This obviously has to play itself out to know what happened here. Is it that Jeter has a valid concern or is this another situation like when Barry Bonds was our “Hitting Coach”? Stay tuned.
2 – It was with mixed receival that as a Miami sports fan that I had to accept both Jeter and Michael Jordan as part of the ownership team of the Marlins because I wasn’t fond of either when they were players. I came to accept them, especially I liked the emphasis on rebuilding the organization with a winning culture. I loved that and wanted the fact that both are sore losers could benefit our team with them as our owners. Now Jeter’s gone. Jordan remains. Hoping there isn’t reason to be concerned as a Marlins fan.
3 – I love Jeter leading the charge for the rebrand to the current Marlins look away from that art deco vomit look of Loria’s with the uniforms, logo, statue, etc. I further enjoyed that they did this based on the “Dimelo Miami” campaign where they actually listened to our feedback, which included brand and uniform changes. Thank you Jeter for that.
4 – Upon this departure, I hope that this results in us doing what it takes to place Jeter in the list of names in Marlins history with Albert Belle and Mike Hampton. I do not want results that place Sherman with the names of Loria and John Henry in our team history (which brings my concern).
5 – Jeter’s comments raises some concerns within me. I hope that MLB didn’t once again screw over South Florida with another garbage owner. We have had Gustavo Cisneros, Jorge Mas and even Mark Cuban as ownership possibilities. We’ve begged for Micky Arison for ownership. There are competent possibilities for Marlins ownership. If Sherman is just another swindler, this good ole boys club in MLB ownership may have done it’s last screw up with Miami sports fans. We’ll support a franchise like we’ve done with the other sports teams in town, but we need a franchise that makes an effort. As Micky Arison once said, owners need to see themselves as custodians of a city’s sports franchise…essentially a public servant with an expensive hobby. South Florida needs that in their MLB team. South Florida doesn’t need this good ole boy network crapes where owners must be part of their boys club. If Sherman is not the right guy, go back to Cisneros, Mas, or Cuban or even approach Arison to sell the team to a competent owner. We don’t need this garbage in South Florida. It’s disheartening to see what Don Shula built with the Dolphins, what Pat Riley turned the Heat to, to see the legacies of Dan Marino and Dwayne Wade, then look at what has been done to the Marlins, and seeing Miggy Cabrera have a HoF career elsewhere. I hope that Sherman shows that there’s nothing to be concerned about. I hope we have our ownership finally fixed. I hope MLB didn’t let us down again.
6 – With Jeter’s departure, I guess life is closer to normal in that I will not have to root for him any longer, which was always tough.
7 – Bring Andre Dawson, Tony Perez and Jeff Conine back! Bring Mike Lowell in!
8 – Go Marlins! Make Jeter into the next Albert Belle and Mike Hampton!
You have a lot of time on your hands. Can you tell us all again how you were never enamored with Jeter being part of the ownership group? Or how those of us who watch E S P N are somehow lower than you? Nitwit.
I accepted Jeter and Michael Jordan as owners even though I never liked them as players. It was kind of having to accept what we had.
BTW, is that all you focused on in my post? I commend Jeter for some of the good things he did for us too.
As for the E!SPN thing, I imagine you being one of their viewers may make this difficult to comprehend for you, but season, trend seeking people who think they are knowledgeable fans watch E!SPN. Truly knowledgeable fans watch MLB Network, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, etc. specialized network. E!SPN is for the low level sports fan that passes through everything based on popularity of the moment within their unmedicated ADHD minds. So go back to watching how Tom Brady, LeBron James, Tiger Woods and once again Derek Jeter are the greatest athletes ever until the next cool thing comes along. [Interesting: I just summarized E!SPN for you. No need for you to watch the next 12 hours of coverage.]
So watching E S P N precludes one from also watching MLB Network? Got it.
I could reasonably argue that a person who watches all of those networks is equally as (or more) knowledgeable than someone who restricts their viewership to a single source because they are able to share their opinion from a thoughtful, open minded place.
What’s thoughtful and open-minded about E!SPN?
By itself? Nothing.
You’re clearly missing the point but that’s also clearly intentional on your part. All I’m suggesting is that having more sources to inform one’s opinion is a good thing. And while your devaluation of everyone else’s opinion based on your personal vendetta against a television network is the antithesis of open-mindedness, at least it’s entertaining for the rest of us.
I forgot all you do is watch tv all day. I’ll try to remember to use smaller words next time. In the meantime, shut off the tube and pick up a book!
Says the guy who has a screen name from a film, and posted two messages to me…16 hours apart!
I’ll speak Jeter, Brady, LeBron and Tiger so I can speak your language.
I don’t understand your point? Great movie.
Just take your L, it’s past your bedtime gramps
Yay you win, you win! Now you get a trophy. It’s an autographed mirror with a frame of Tom Brady, Derek Jeter, LeBron James and Tiger Woods so you can see yourself next to them every time you look at it. A good place for you to have it is over your daddy’s alter dedicated to Tim Tebow.
I was sick of Jeter during his “look at me” retirement circus. Now he is getting slobbered over because he is quitting a job! Enough already of this 2hit 2how!
Did Jeter fail to give you a gift basket?
Including the absurdity of his final contract demand that he eventually had to walk down from. 5 years, $125 million! They ended up giving him 3 years, and the final 2 years of that, he was one of the worst players in MLB . Just imagine if they gave him the 5 year contract. Pathetic.
Correction, they have him a 3 year contract after he demanded a ridiculous 5 year, $125 million contract, and then they gave him a final 1 year contract out of charity, despite the fact that he obviously had absolutely nothing left. As for the ‘gift basket’ comment- disgusting- and that actually alludes to a great point. Because jeter’s true ‘mark’ that he left on the world was being a massive spreader of std’s. Then he went to the Marlins and gutted the team and used the team essentially as an ATM machine. jeter’s an overrated and unsavory person in general. Gross.
You have serious issues with yourself and all of your alt accounts. Get help.
So did Jeter do the walk of shame with a cardboard box of his office knick-knacks?
It’s funny. When you spend a little money, put a better product on the field, and actually try to win some games, then attendance goes up.
Overrated as a player and obviously not very good as a CEO.. Go back to New York where they can lick your toes.
Ahh, someone else who didn’t get their gift basket.
How creative. You are correct, I didn’t get a gift basket but I hope you enjoy your autographed baseball and colored 8×10.
jeter was a terrible ‘executive’ and an overall low level investor. Whatever- addition by subtraction for the Marlins.
Had to get that one out there too, Sherman? Jeeze, if all these owners are as sensitive and thick skinned as this one.
Your attendance is terrible because you’re in a terrible market, and your previous owner was a liar. No one trusts the Marlins and they shouldn’t.
The Miami Heat and Dolphins say that you’re wrong.
MLB has a problem as a whole. A lot of markets that the NFL and NBA succeed, MLB struggles in. That indicates an institutional problem.
Almost as if fan bases for different sports localize in different areas based on culture and history…
So ownership isn’t happy with the low attendance. Maybe if they invested some money into the team and signed a couple of free agents to improve their chances of winning. Maybe fans would come out to watch the Marlins.
Miami has never been a good MLB city. Move to Las Vegas or Nashville
i don’t know why people keep bringing up nashville. its tv market is smaller than 1 miilon.
Lmao. What happened to the theory that this was a chivalrous move stepping aside for Kim Ng?
Jeter pulled a Biden. He came in and undid anything the previous regime had going and made it worse.
This ain’t Facebook. Carry your politics elsewhere.
On the contrary, let the politics flow so I can know which fools to Mute. It’s not like they’re likely to have good baseball opinions anyway.
what has the previous administration done other than kissing putin’s behind? the traitor-in-chief should be locked in guantanamo!
Aragon, autocrats love one another and support each other. It’s disgusting that people still support that traitor.
No way Biden could make things worse.
easy to allege, hard to prove, i.e. no one can ever prove Jeter was wrong. perfect claim.
Only time will tell.
Who wants to pay $60-$75 for decent seat to watch your team lose? No one!!! That’s why you have low attendance. No matter how Jeter used his fame, I’m not paying to come see him, he doesn’t play anymore. He just didn’t agree with owner taking the revenue sharing dollars and banking them. Spend some on players to win. I know they are on the fence and it wouldn’t take much to win again. They always give the Braves a fit. You win people will come. But heck you can buy a MLB TV Plan for couple hundred dollars and watch all the teams play and never leave home for price of going to one game. Owners make millions and they are greedy, they spend on themselves and family. Like crazy. Private jets, yachts, travel and etc.
You can lose and make a profit, winning brings more money but it brings other issues. Owners want to cruise along. Players need to put in a CBA not only min salaries but min payroll for players. No cap, salaries are high because players have asked or negotiated their salary. It’s the owners fault for agreeing and paying it.
Are we to believe you, Jeter or Sherman?
Bye bye Cash, hello Jeter….as simple as it is. Jeter has Georges winning mentality in him while Cash and Hal don’t. Make it happen.
So, after a week of bad publicity, Sherman puts out the “it’s not that I was cheap, it’s that Jeter was bad at his job” leak.
Easy to prove…IF you spend money.
Did you think through this defense?
We shall see.
There isn’t a heck of a lot Jeter could have done about the attendance on his own. They could have put him at SS and still no one would show up.
There is always more to the story than the public knows. There’s Jeter’s side and Sherman’s side and somewhere in between is what really happened
2tupid 2hort2top 2ucking 2teinbrenner’2 2phincter
Took all week for you to come up with that didn’t?
The biggest issue is there has been no evidence yet that MLB can thrive in Florida beyond Spring Training games. I truly want to believe it can thrive, but I don’t see the evidence. Of course, winning and showing a long-term commitment from an ownership group might help some, but that would require the additional investment Jeter wanted.
I’m sure Sherman’s new CEO will figure it all out, even though no one has yet outside of Sternberg of the Rays and Loria of the Marlins, who have and were able to manipulate MLB’s rules and desire to establish teams in Florida to their own financial gains while doing little to expand the game in Florida. I suspect Sherman is now following their lead.
MLB can survive in Florida. The problem is that it was mishandled. They expanded twice within a few years, which has hurt both teams. They should’ve waited for the second expansion in Florida.
And here’s the response/”leak” from Sherman. I knew that this wasn’t over.
I’ll be sitting back in a poolside chair with some popcorn and a drink as I watch this play out.
And like I said in previous posts since this “mutual” parting occurred, Jeter isn’t as enamored in South Florida as he is in the northeastern U.S., NY, E!SPN and FOX Sports. Perhaps we can now bring Jeff Conine, Andre Dawson, and Tony Perez back. Would love to bring Mike Lowell too.
Content running a AAAA franchise.
Low attendance is a perfectly good reason, but Sherman should do a little looking in the mirror as well. Trade off stars, don’t invest, and Jeter could have run around in bratwurst costume and it wouldn’t have helped. Miami has had one winning season…and that was in 2020…in the last 12.
Sherman wasn’t the owner for the last 12 years.
As for trading off the stars, I love how people who don’t follow the team keep going to that to show how very little they know about this team. The Marlins needed to do that teardown to rebuild. Who won’t fund one knowledgeable Marlins fan that says different.
OK, let’s agree that no one should comment on any MLBTR article unless one roots specifically for that team, and therefore can be considered “knowledgable”.
But, just in the abstract, I wasn’t critiquing Sherman for the last 12 years, I was noting a fact, that the Marlins didn’t have a winning seasonal record. Sherman came in as a new owner, he was surely aware of both the roster, and recent attendance. For the last 3 full years, under his ownership and Jeter’s position, attendance fell by more than half, and that in a relatively new and subsidized) stadium. Thats a fact, one that reflects fan interest, even the “knowledgable” ones. Now, you may support the strategy of tearing down/tanking, and that’s fine. I hope it works for you. I’ve never liked the idea, regardless of which team does it. I get a sell-off of vets at the trading deadline for fresh talent, but a sooner or later, ownership owes the fans a credible team. Five years hasn’t been enough for Miami. How many years is too many? I
The “knowledgeable” fan theories are funny to me. Glad I’m not the only one.
Five years is a reasonable timeframe to expect some sign of life from a “rebuilding” team.
Big “you can’t quit, you’re fired!” energy
Le Montreal Poisson? Oui? Monsieur Bruce Sherman has the answer.
Gotta have arms to win and this is a nice collection of young arms. I have zero idea how much Jeter had to do with it, but this team looks like they might be close to making their mark sooner than later.
This makes more sense.
Jeter was a figurehead. He certainly was a HOF ball player. He was a below average CEO. Overpaid at 5mm a year.