The Mariners’ interest in division-rival third baseman (and noted trade candidate) Matt Chapman isn’t exactly a new revelation, but even as the Athletics prepare for what looks to be a significant sell-off/payroll reduction, they’re still aiming high in trade talks. Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times cites multiple sources who believe the A’s would ask that the Mariners include top infield prospect Noelvi Marte as a headline piece in any deal involving Chapman, who is controlled another two years via arbitration.
Baseball America ranked Marte as the sport’s No. 18 prospect earlier this week, and it’s not hard to see why; Marte played the 2021 season as a 19-year-old against much older competition but nevertheless slashed a combined .273/.366/.460 with 17 home runs and 24 stolen bases between two Class-A levels. Drawing praise for his blend of raw power and speed, Marte has played exclusively at shortstop thus far in his pro career, though he’s been error-prone (6o in 1402 innings) and some scouting reports question whether he might eventually move to third base. The Athletics and other clubs would surely target him in a number of trade scenarios, but it seems unlikely Marte would actually change hands.
Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto has already gone on record this offseason to indicate there’s “no scenario” where he’d move the very top names in his farm system. Marte trails uber-prospect Julio Rodriguez on most rankings, he certainly falls under the umbrella alluded to by Dipoto. The A’s could, of course, try to work out a deal centering on another headliner, but if Dipoto was being earnest in his reluctance to trade his system’s very best, an agreement could be hard to piece together.
Some more Mariners notes…
- In a second piece, Divish looks at three Mariners whose long-term positions with the team aren’t assured: outfielder Taylor Trammell, catcher Luis Torrens and outfielder Jake Fraley. Despite Trammell’s status as a former high draft pick and top prospect, last season’s poor big league debut has dimmed his stock in the eyes of rival scouts. Divish cites one “optimistic” scout from another club who believes Trammell can still be more than a fourth outfielder — but others are more bearish based on his approach at the plate and some poor defensive reads. Similarly, while the Mariners believe Torrens can be a passable or better defender behind the plate, other teams are more skeptical of his glovework. Any of the trio would still have some value on the trade market, but probably not as headline pieces for notable upgrades. Mariners fans, in particular, will want to check out both Divish columns for some scouting quotes and opinions of several of Seattle’s young players.
- In his latest mailbag column, The Athletic’s Corey Brock tackles a number of pertinent Mariners topics — including the team’s rotation. Brock suggests that Seattle, needing pitchers who can make an impact out of the gate, was never going to come close to matching the $10MM offer James Paxton received from the Red Sox. Still, the Mariners appear likely to target another arm to add to the rotation — ideally someone who’s more than just a fifth starter to round out the group. The free-agent market has, of course, been largely picked over by this point — with Seattle playing a key part in the pre-lockout signing rush (Robbie Ray). Carlos Rodon stands out as one potential difference-maker who remains in play, though he has not been prominently linked to the Mariners. The trade market figures to have plenty of options, with Cincinnati (Luis Castillo, Sonny Gray, Tyler Mahle) and Oakland (Frankie Montas, Sean Manaea, Chris Bassitt) standing as the two most obvious partners for any team seeking rotation help on the trade market.
Chapman is an interesting case, and a difficult one. A’s are gonna market him like an MVP level guy, or something close to that. But his 2021 was very troublesome and other teams aren’t gonna see him that way. As a result, I think he’s the one guy on the A’s list that ends up not moving.
Right? A top 20 prospect for what Chapman has done over his last 600 PA? I doubt it
I agree. At this point the M’s would be crazy to trade Rodriguez or Marte for Chapman. Chapman clearly looks like his bat is already on the decline. On top of that, he’s only under contract for 2 more years. It could put the M’s in a situation where they watch Chapman have back to back disappointing seasons and right around the time it’s over they have to watch Rodriguez or Marte start breaking out for the A’s. Just keep the prospects. If they feel like they have to have a third baseman just go after Bryant. He is probably better and he won’t cost you prospects. I could see trading some value for Chapman but not that much. Not a top 20 prospect in MLB.
Especially when everyone knows the A’s want financial relief.
***Gold Glove caliber defense minimum**^
Chapman had hip surgery right before last season. it was one of seasons to forget. But now Some outlets are already saying he is in an amazing shape, just ready to go. Noelv Marte is talented but nonetheless an amateur, The Ms will need to entice A’s Billy Beane with a more substantial, significant package…
There is no way that the Mariners trade Marte straight up for Chapman. Chapman has declined the last two years and his K rate is alarming. I understand Chapman has been injured but I’m not trading a prospect like Marte for Chapman. If the Mariners needed a first baseman then a more realistic trade would be two years of Olson for Marte. Olson has been on the upswing and had the lowest K rate of his career looks really good that’s who trade a top 15 prospect for.
This is the time of year that yes everyone is in great shape and they are going to have a monster year but I’m not trading a top 20 prospect for Chapman after what he has shown the last two years until he has proven that he is back to the 2019 Chapman. If he does that then Oakland could trade him for a prospect like Marte. Chapman almost has to start with Oakland so that teams can see if he is back now. His value is at an all time low right now after 2 poor seasons.
Not to mention hip surgery is notoriously hard to come back from. Plenty of players are never the same again after the get it. I know reports are that Chapman is in great shape right now but teams are still going to want to see him hit well against MLB pitching post surgery before they trade something as significant as a top 20 prospect to get him. Teams aren’t just going to assume he’s back to form without actually seeing it. That’s how huge mistakes get made on the trade market. Some teams might be that foolish but the M’s don’t strike me as on of those teams.
Marte is only 19 and a potential superstar; Teams with a long-range strategy don’t give that kind of player up.
Yeah! Dipoto and the Mariners would NEVER give up a potential superstar SS named Marte for an established major league player.
That’s funny, but to be fair, Ketel was about half the size he is now and was never anywhere near being a top-20 prospect in MLB when he was traded.
In his age 22 season that preceded the November 2016 trade, Ketel Marte posted an OPS+ of 68 in 466 plate appearances.
baseball-reference.com/players/m/marteke01.shtml
Marté was thought of as a potential utility player at that time. There was upside but he had struggled for a year or so. Plus, Jerry was new and a lot of GM’s opt for jettisoning their predecessor’s prospects.
Marte’s floor was utility player. There was still a strong thought that he was a regular. Segura and Haniger were two valuable pieces at the time also. He obviously raised his ceiling w the strength he put on and has exceeded what people thought of him but he wasn’t a throw in utility man. He was a 22 year old with strong upside and a pretty high floor.
The power changed the game and made him the perennial all star he is now.
Well, don’t get your heart set on Marte. And I believe the A’s should ask high. I’ll bet they don’t expect to get Marté but that line has to be set.
Mariners won’t trade what Oakland wants for Chapman. So,they will likely sign Trevor Story or Kris Bryant as free agents. They are more likely to trade for a front line #2 starter or #3 starter from some of their highly valued second tier minor league prospects (the M’s have the #1 or #2 rated minor league system)..
The Mariners minor league system’s rating is top heavy considering their top guys:
Julio Rodriguez, Noelvi Marte, Emerson Hancock, George Kirby, Harry Ford, Brandon Williamson etc etc..
This kind of talent is amazing…
W/R to KB: Signing him to play 3B is a mistake.. Signing him to play OF.. would be a wise move. KB can play all three spots but, would be best suited for a corner.
If KB is signed, then one of the Seattle OF’ers will be more available (read: not a charitable sacrifice) Signing Trevor Story could make the length of the Seattle lineup it’s best.. Then the Seattle FO can focus on acquiring a MOR/TOR SP..
Bryant’s defense is comfortably below average in the OF and only slightly below average at 3B.
200k’s
If I’m the reds. I offer Luis Castillo and Jesse winker for kelenik, Kirby and ford.
I think both teams get what they want.
The Mariners say no.
and then they block the reds number….
That would be a horribly short sighted move for Seattle.
If I were the reds I would do the same. Problem is the mariners would never go for it
That’s an easy no from the M’s sheesh
The Mariners say no because what they need is a 3B!
The trio of Rodríguez, Kelenic and Lewis are not going anywhere!
You’re a funny fella hoyce. Don’t ever change.
No way, shape, or form are the M’s doing that. None of the top 5 M’s prospects are likely to go anywhere.
@hoyce
So Seattle get 2 years of control of winkler and Castillo? Depoto doesn’t give of more year of control for less!
Oh, Kirby is rated/evaluated as a generational #1 SP; Degrom and Bieber were used as comparisons
Ya. Mariners get proven all stars for prospects. Kinda how this thing goes. And as far as Kirby being a generational talent- ( he’s ranked 31). Are u telling me there are 30 better generational talents? Dumb as f***. He is just as likely to be a bust But that’s the risk. Seattle fans way overvalue kelenik. He prob will be a bust. Or has been so far. And ford is still a baby. Jury is still out on him also
In the recent BA rankings, Kirby is 12. And yeah, Biff definitely oversold Kirby’s worth a bit but Dipoto has said he won’t trade from the top 5 unless blown away and giving up 17 years of control of two top 100 (Kirby top 12) ‘spects and Kelenic for 4 years of 2 guys who, between them, have 2 all-star appearances in 10 seasons just makes zero sense for Seattle. Plus, Good Castillo doesn’t show up until June each season, it seems, and Winker got a career high 485 PA’s in 2021. If I remember correctly, his nearest comp in the field is Stevie Wonder.
How about Kirby, Kelenic, Ford, Julio, Marte, and Hancock for Gray, Castillo, a bag of ranch flavored seeds from 2020, a bullpen catcher (but only if he’s got an alliterative name), and that one strength coach for the University of Oregon football team-you know the one, the short sleeves dude with the handle bar mustache. Sounds like it benefits both parties involved as both teams get what they want.
You forgot Brash!
Brash or Williamson + some lower lottos for Gray make sense to me.
Reds save $$$ and get a guy who could plug right into the rotation.
Lol! M’s hang up instantly
While I’m sure Oakland is willing to trade just about any player for the right package, you have to think the asking price on their players will be even higher for divisional opponents. They don’t want to see a former player burn them 19 times per season (less for pitchers of course) unless they received a king’s ransom in the trade and can watch their acquired players burn their former organization too. Based on what DiPoto has said about being reluctant to trade their best prospects, I don’t see Seattle & Oakland lining up on any impact player trades this offseason unless DiPoto changes his tune. Oakland might be willing to take a little bit less just to keep their former players out of their division.
I posted this trade on the previous board about Glasnow. I would trade Tampa Bay
SP Emerson Hancock and RP Nick Margevious for
CF Josh Lowe and SP Tyler Glasnow
Lowe fixes the M’s outfield. He looks like a CF with power and the speed to lock down CF for several years. Hancock for Lowe is fair. That results in Kelenic, Lowe and Haniger in the outfield with Julio Rodriquez as the 4th guy. Fraley and Trammel become expendable.
Then with Cleveland I would trade Fraley and/or Trammel. for SS/3B Gabriel Arias. Cleveland needs affordable OF and Fraley is an upgrade over what they have in LF. That fixes 3B for the M’s and makes Dillon Moore expendable. Arias can play all over the infield backing up Toro, Crawford and Frazier.
The team saves money on expensive FA’s like Suzuki or Freeman and trade candidates like Chapman while fixing their weaknesses. With the money saved they could target a #2 pitcher. Tyler Glasnow as No 2 in 2023 works, also.
Sorry, I like the effort, but I don’t see that doing anything to help anyone but Seattle. You would likely have to part with either Torrens or Raleigh, and maybe even Trammell in addition to your proposal for Glasnow. I don’t see the Rays motivation to just give Glasnow away. And you aren’t getting Arias from Cleveland for Fraley, never going to happen.
@Sid
Glasnow cannot play. He just went thru TJ surgery. If you read the prior article the premise is the Rays should trade him now for whatever and save his $12M. They cannot afford to pay his QO in two years. Then they can use the $12 for some other pitching. This trade gives them two quality, healthy pitchers that they need plus the $12M. That seems like a bigger win than getting nothing.
Cleveland has 14 infielders. They don’t have spots for them all and are literally going to lose somebody in the Rule 5 draft if they don’t thin their crop. Arias isn’t the only choice. Freeman, Palacios, Jones, Rocchio, Arias and 3 good ones on their MLB roster are all candidates for a trade. What they don’t have is an abundance of OF help.
AllenBob,
The problem with the offer or Fraley or Trammell for Arias is that neither move the needle for the Guardians. Arias has much more value. Arias and all the other infielders that you listed are already on the 40 man roster and can’t be lost in the rule 5 draft.. They will likely make a trade for an outfielder that has more value than Fraley and Trammel.
@hockey
Perhaps, you are right. However I think Fraley and Trammel have more value than you realize. Despite their shortcomings they are in MLB while Arias is still all promise. The trade might involve other pieces from either side but I think there is an opportunity for both teams to get what they need to balance out their roster.
Gabriel Arias had 436 solid at bats at AAA Columbus at age 21. He will likely hit the majors this season turning 22 at the end of February. He has much more value than spare outfield parts like Fraley (career .196 ave and Trammell (career .160 ave.). Neither Fraley or Trammel fill a need for the Guardians.
Trammel was once a hot prospect, too. Once they get the next promotion everything changes. Arias will hit the wall like everyone else.
@Bob… I think your premise is correct… just wrong pieces, and possibly wrong team(s).
Cleveland is a good team to target for a 2B or 3B player, but Arias is probably too expensive. The Rockies, Reds, and possibly Dodgers would also be teams to talk to.
Tampa is also a good target for a CF – Keiermeyer makes more sense from both Seattle’s & Tampa’s view though… and for whatever it is worth, Hancock and Marge are probably not considered “proven healthy and desirable” pitchers for Tampa. There are several other teams for a CF, or just a LHH solid corner.
Hopefully when the price goes up for Chapman or whomever, Dipoto will use his several other options, as many have pointed out… the M’s are a desired target trade partner for basically EVERY MLB team.
By the way… what do you people suggest happens to Dipoto if he does trade a top 5 prospect for a needed player that fits this team?
I’m all in on Kiermeier. Play him half time and try to see if both Lewis and Kelenic can play 25% of the time in CF. I would also consider signing Michael Conforto and play Haniger 50-65% at DH to keep the legs of Lewis and Hanny fresh.
I like it from the M’s POV but I don’t think Cleveland and Tampa would be down
and the Rays block DiPotos number lol. Once you threw Lowe in there there’s no chance. The Rays have many infield prospects, outfield is really headed by Lowe (Brujan is def a 2B) and they won’t give him up to shed not that much of money with Glasnow.
Seattle would be getting one (presumably usable) year of Glasnow with all the risk in his third year of arbitration.. That’s not a Jerry Dipoto type of deal. That idea was sparked by Joe Doyle, who is great at scouting and sharing his insights regarding prospects, but his trade ideas have been a bit wild. Lowe is very likely going to replace Kiermaier either this year, or next, so I doubt Tampa would be keen on moving him anyway.
Seattle really can’t avoid spending, whether it’s cash, or prospect capital. Something’s gotta give. They have to add.
I hear you on Glasnow but the Rays are essentially getting no value for him in that deal.
Hancock & Lowe are similarly ranked prospects. FG has them both as 50 FV.
You’re essentially giving away Glasnow to save money. You’d have to hope the Rays see these guys differently and really love Hancock. But he certainly didn’t look like a dominant pitcher in his small sample. Good—dependable arm but Lowe also looks like a plug and play CF’er.
The Mariners so far are this years Padres as far as rumors of interest in anybody that walks and breathes……Okay, before everyone piles on…I realize they have a position at 3rd base open but do you really think Oakland is going to trade with their divisional rival….BillyB is pretty smart and fearless but sure he would demand a bit more than the asking price for out of the division…….maybe yes, maybe no…..but please every rumor lists the Mariners as potentially in the mix…..
I entirely agree. I’ll add that it makes it lots more fun to be a Mariners fan, knowing the team is in “go for it” mode.
I think people are overplaying the whole division rival trading thing. It definitely happens (toro/graveman swap last year). If the trade is beneficial for both sides they’ll make it happen, but if the A’s want marte for Chapman the deal will never happen
Common sense dictates if the A’s view offers as comparable, they will choose to send their stars outside of the AL West. Thus, it will always cost “more” to trade a player intra-division. What makes it difficult to assess is it’s not easy to compare multiple offers.
Beane has traded with rangers a good amount, and some deals with Astros, angels in past. So he definitely hasn’t shown hesitancy trading within division if they get a deal they like. And has made several trades with dipoto in recent years
Beane certainly wasn’t gifting those players. He either had no other offers or simply viewed the offers as best for the A’s factoring everything into the equation. It happens with every trade but if a GM theoretically believes the offers are equal, the GM will always choose the deal outside of the division.
@rocky
As long as the Mariners have salary space and prospects they are going to be on every agent and teams speed dial. Agents are going to call about their FA clients. Teams will call about a trade. Once the money or prospects are gone they will miss out on the best deals. I hope they hang onto their ammo for next year and beyond. Not all of the good players will be in play this year.
It really depends on where Oakland sees themselves. If they believe it’s best to unload and take a step back for a couple of years, it really doesn’t matter where they trade Chapman.
& if they’re rebuilding taking future value from a divisional opponent wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Chappy is potentially gone in 2 years from his acquiring team. The prospects he returns will be there for a whole lot longer. This isn’t the Yankees dealing to the Red Sox. It’s the small market A’s doing what they always do. Selling a guy before he becomes prohibitively expensive and recouping value.
Rocky7- Dipoto made a trade with the A’s for the 2018 season. Billy Beane sent Ryon Healy to the Mariners for RHP Emilio Pagan and INF Alexander Campos. Although Healy didn’t pan out that shows you that Beane is perfectly fine with trading within the Division. In fact, Dipoto has made trades with every single AL West team.
That’s not ever going to happen,you’re talking about 3 of the Mariners top prospects
The great A’s sell off of 2022 is more wishful thinking than anything else. It would not be advisable for Oakland to get the team when they are about to get stadium approval or close to it. Olson may go as well as Manire but I think that’s it. The 80s brought in Chapmans minor league hitting instructor to be the batting coach so I believe they are going to try to rehabilitate him in Oakland. If the A’s are out of it by July and Chapman is hitting he would command more in a trade at that point then he would now.
Also, Chapman’s hip is healthy for the first time since Aug. 2020. I think he hits .250/.335/.525 with 30-35 pokes.
Hard no. Marte is Seattle’s 2nd best position player prospect behind Julio, and Chapman’s been trending in the wrong direction performance-wise for a while. I’d call for Dipoto to be fired if he decided to make this trade in lieu of signing one of the several star infielders still available in free agency.
I think the Mariners interest in Chapman is waning. The M’s front office had made no secret of their interest in Kris Bryant and according to some sources a deal was very close when the lock-out occurred. Unless the Mariners are planning to use Bryant full time in the OF, 3B will probably be filled. Personally, I would like to have another season’s worth of at bats to see if Chapman’s troublesome hip can respond before trading any prospect capital.
You really want KB playing 3rd all season? He’s not very good at it.
There were zero reports that Seattle was close to a deal with Bryant before the lockout. There was interest in Bryant at the deadline last season, but the interest in Bryant this offseason hasn’t been excessive. 710 ESPN’s Shannon Drayer noted that the interest at the deadline doesn’t mean they see him as the same as a free agent (and she was the first to suggest there might be interest in Story).
There was a report that there was discussion between Seattle and Story’s agent before the lockout, so maybe you mixed those two up.
I really don’t think most of these comments get that even in a down year (coming off a significant hip surgery) Chapman was a league average bat, hit 27 homers and was a 3.5 WAR player. That’s pretty much his floor so it would absolutely take an elite prospect or a haul of young talent to get him from a division rival. His defense and power will always make him very valuable
I’m not sure any is doubting his talent and ability, especially defensively, it’s more the he’s not worth the asking price, his performance after hip surgery is more of a red flag vs a selling point to send a top prospect.
Chapman can improve a lot of teams looking for 3b help, but if the A’s are looking for his 2019 value they probably aren’t going to find a dance partner
@snorgator
Appreciate defensive metrics and WAR aren’t happy bedfellows but Chapman could hit about ..180 and still end up playable because of the defensive side. From a Bay Area point of view it took Canha and Posey a season plus to revert to norm after hip surgery. So – yes – agree entirely snorgator – the A’s won’t be selling low.
It just doesn’t make sense for the Mariners to make this trade currently. They have so much room in the payroll for another big free agent signing, even if their budget is the same as the mid-2010s payroll (which was roughly $170-180 million). There’s still quite a few great infielders left looking for deals. They don’t need to consolidate resources to save a few bucks yet. That said, if the A’s can be talked down from Marte, I’d swing the trade because Chapman’s a good player when fully healthy and would make the Mariners immediately better.
Another thing often missed is that asking prices always start high. Oakland may very well take prospects from Seattle’s mid-tier, especially if they could ditch a little salary (Piscotty or Andrus, for example) with him.
Seattle isn’t likely giving up their lone, elite infield prospect for the final two years of arbitration-controlled Chapman. But a pitcher like Williamson, maybe an outfielder like DeLoach and maybe a combo of ready-now relievers & RP prospects?
Oakland has shown interest in packages with under-the-radar types and less-hyped prospects.. The Harden, Cespedes, and Donaldson trades serve as examples.
That said, it surely isn’t just Seattle that’s interested in Chapman and the bidding could be significant. Oakland could always bank on a rebound and try to sell higher at the deadline if he rebounds.
@stevil
Cespedes was traded for Jon Lester & Jonny Gomes for a playoff run. It was a weird trade but not for any under the radar guys or mid level prospects. Donaldson was dealt for Brett Lawrie + Franklin Barretto + others.
Barretto was a top prospect and there were personal issues b/w JD and BB. Lawrie was also a productive major leaguer & former top prospect. That was a bad deal and I think Beane admitted regret over that.
I honestly don’t remember the Rich Harden trade any longer. I recall he had a history injury issues prior to the deal but it looks like they took a package of quantity for him. (Turned out that Donaldson was one of the guys)
Say the lockout ends the season before it starts, would pre-lockout contracts not kick in until 2023? Like Ray’s first year of the 5 year deal would be 2023 and the opt-out would actually be after 2026? Curious.
Can someone please cite a legitimate source where the A’s say they are slashing payroll? The linked article says the A’s are willing to listen on any player…they have been that way for 20+ years, that doesn’t mean they are slashing payroll.
I think it was the letting their manager walk that set that tone for their offseason and payroll concerns
The triggered another year on his contract – just before the A’s hit the skids and Melvin managed them out of 1st place, the Wild Card and eventually 3rd place in the AL West. The A’s don’t hold managers back from interviewing.
Someday I believe we are going to find out at that Billy Beane orchestrated the Melvin to San Diego deal. Melvin did a pretty bad job last year with the athletics and it looks like the team quit on him. It would not have looked good to fire Melvin after A decade as skipper. The absence of chatter online by A’s players mourning the loss of their manager was telling.
There has been multiple reports that they are looking at slashing payroll to almost 40 or 50 million for 2022 season. They are even raising tocket prices…doubling them in many cases.
Oakland front office never said that. That was all just wild speculation by New York press who fantasized about Olson and Chapman in New York.
The ticket increases aren’t speculation.
ktvu.com/news/despite-dramatic-drop-in-attendance-…
The ticket price increase for 2022 is old news. The A’s made that announcement back in July while they were still in the pennant race. They wouldn’t be raising ticket prices if they plan to Destroy the team. You could make the argument that they raise prices in anticipation of a higher player payroll in 2022.
Sounds like they’re preparing to sell the team
Chapman seems like more of a backup plan for the M’s at this point. They def want story or Bryant instead, especially since they won’t have to give up prospects. Even brian Anderson would be cheaper and his bat is arguably better than chapmans, just no where close with the glove.
We just need manfred and his goons to make a deal with the players already cuz all this speculation is getting really boring/tiring.
There are other 3B around that are available for less than a top 20 overall prospect. Mariners will grab one. I doubt it will be Bryant, just because KB is a poor defender at 3rd and the M’s don’t have an OF spot for him if they decide he’s costing them too much with the glove. But watch someone like Ryan McMahon of the Rockies, who is a fantastic defender. Obviously not the bat KB is, but solid lefty punch. Rockies have two AAA prospect 3B who have to play.
I don’t think Bryant’s defense is a liability right now. He would be a great short-term fit for Seattle. The problem is that he’ll likely get 6-8 years and will be more of a DH and defensive fill-in for the majority of whatever deal he gets.
McMahon would make sense for Seattle, but Colorado is already short an infielder and he seems to be a fan-favorite.
His home and away splits are worth noting for McMahon
Most players are better at home than on the road, and when you look at splits, you should look at everything (stadiums, BABIP, sample sizes, etc.).
It’s a mixed bag with McMahon, but it’s worth noting he fared well in the AL West last year.
With the OF prospect depth, might be interesting to hand Jake Fraley a first baseman’s mitt and see how they look with Fraley on 1B and France on 3B. Still would have Haniger, Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic & Rodriguez to play OF.
Mariners already have Ty France entrenched at 1B. Dude was solid there defensively and he can hit. Plus if Evan White shows anything at all, he’ll get a crack at 1B again. I think Fraley’s the 4th OF if he’s not traded and he’ll likely get a decent amount of playing time either way. Trammell hasn’t shown anything to convince me he’s ready for the big leagues. Kelenic was wildly inconsistent for most of the year although he got better in the final couple of months, who knows if the adjustments he made in the second half stick or not. Julio is unproven beyond Double-A, and we’ve all seen plenty of top prospects fall apart against the insanely tough competition in MLB. Dipoto himself said that he doesn’t expect Lewis to be 100% after suffering yet another knee injury, going as far as saying anything Lewis does for the team next year is a “bonus”. Haniger is the only OF I have legitimate confidence in since he is proven and did have a solid season last year. What the Mariners do have going for them is that nearly every OF they have has AAA options remaining so they can call them up/send them down as needed and not worry about losing them to waivers.
Fraley is closer to being a DFA than the fourth outfielder if they add anyone.
Fraley is pretty much a lock to be the fourth outfielder and he has options, so a DFA is highly unlikely.
Defensively would the Seattle Mariners be better off with Kris Bryant at third base and Ty France at first base or four-time Gold Glove winner Anthony Rizzo at first base and France at third base?
ZiPS and Steamer project Rizzo with higher OPS+ and wRC+ than Bryant in 2022. ZiPS projects 2022 WAR of 2.7 for Rizzo and 3.1 for Bryant while Steamer projects 2022 WAR of 2.5 for Rizzo and 2.7 for Bryant. Marcel projects similar 2022 stats for Rizzo and Bryant.
Rizzo could replace the lefthanded bat of Kyle Seager in the Seattle lineup … with a higher on-base percentage.
Rizzo is two-and-a-half years older than Bryant but MLB Trade Rumors projects Rizzo with a three-year, $45 million contract and Bryant with a six-year, $160 million contract.
On the other hand, Rizzo lacks Bryant’s West Coast background.
Judging from the Mariners’ moves over the last couple of years, they’re focusing a lot on flexibility and versatility. France, Frazier, and Toro are some of their most significant acquisitions, and they all can play multiple positions. SS JP Crawford also has experience at 3B/2B when coming up with the Phillies, and in the 2018-19 offseason they traded for Shed Long who ultimately played a bunch of 2B/OF for a while. I have a feeling that they’re going to pursue Bryant since he can at least kind of play 3B/OF, or Trevor Story in hopes that he accepts a move to 3B/2B. Rizzo is a good player, but is limited to only 1B, and may wind up at DH at some point.
@Muskie
Steamer projects Toro to have a 2.4 WAR and he is a lot younger with control. I expect Toro, with a full year at 3B will do just fine. I expect him to hit 20-25 HRS with 90 RBI’s over a full season. He is only 24 and has a lot of upside. I hate to see the M’s blow a lot of salary space on guys that are on the downhill slide. Rizzo hasn’t produced much since 2019.
Toro’s 25. I wouldn’t have a problem with them giving him a few months and reassess at the deadline if they added a couple of impact-bats elsewhere, but they really should have an alternative on board.
But I agree about blowing a ton of salary on players with long-term deals for a short-term gain. Story might be an exception (well, depending on length).
Sign freeman. Toro to 3rd, which most forget is his natural position, and Frazier to 2nd. Tons to rotate thru DH for “days off”. OF doesn’t need to be “fixed” it needs to develop. Former ROY coming back from injury to pair with Kelenic and Haniger. Any assets to trade need to be for pitching, too many holes can be filled via FA to trade for anything but arms.
Where does Ty France play?
Rizzo is a Brewer waiting to happen. Who actually believes the Brewers are going to go into the season with Rowdy Tellez at 1B? Rizzo on a 3 year deal to complete the infield with Wong, Adames & Urias. Solid in the field, solid at the plate, it’s a brew crew
Starting with a top 20 prospect for Olson for sure, but seems a tad steep for Chapman.
I felt bad for the guy who asked Ryan the question about Trammell, Torrens, and Fraley. He wasn’t implying those three could bring back a star, he was simply asking what their value was.
I would argue that Seattle shouldn’t trade those three anyway. Fraley is one of just three LHHs currently destined for Seattle’s active roster, and though he isn’t a great defender and has health issues, he gave Seattle something they really needed last season: quality PAs from the bench. He led the team in P/PA, rarely chased, and walked a ton.
Trammell is 24, the best center fielder they have on the 40, and finished the AAA season on a positive note. There’s still plenty of hope for him and he currently serves as much-needed minor league depth.
Torrens should probably be Seattle’s opening day catcher. But if not, and he probably won’t be, they would still need him as the backup. Cal Raleigh didn’t look anywhere near ready at the plate and still has some work to do behind it. He should be given at least a couple of months before bringing him back to the MLB club.
Jerry himself said they think they know who their bench players are. He later said they’d like to move Toro around the diamond and get him around 400 PAs, which obviously suggests he’s seen as a role player.
If not a free agent, and if not Chapman, I would imagine we’ll likely see something creative. Seattle absolutely has to add.
One of the reasons I targeted Josh Lowe in my trade proposal is because he bats left-handed. He and Trammel could compete for the CF job.
I like Lowe, so don’t get me wrong, but I think too much is made about LHHs. Seattle needs impact players. Lowe, like Kelenic, Raleigh, Toro, etc., is still breaking in. I don’t think Seattle should, nor will, add more inexperienced players to the fold.
That’s a fair comment. Inexperienced players like Lowe often lose 100 points off their batting average when they move to MLB. The M’s already have several of those. The kids have to hit. The team cannot buy enough RBI’s in FA to create a championship team. I believe either way 2022 is probably at best another second place finish.. I hope we can get all of the prospects to mature together in 2023. My fear is we will be saddled with another expensive, long-term contract for a declining performance that blocks the youngsters and causes us to not renew the productive players we do have.
A’s need to eat that salary and hope he hits .250/350/500 again. the loss of a year of control will maybe offset the gain from the improved stat line season, but you’ll also get him for a 7 win season if he hits that and even the a’s have to hand over that check. granted if he repeats, you’re SOL, but it is what it is. no one’s handing over a marte after last year anyway. they might after next year, even with less control if he produces. especially if they have deep pockets and a fairly clear ledger with a possibility of extending/bringing back in FA
Big no on trading Noelvi unless it includes top notch controllable players.
I want the Mariners to stand pat, right where they are.
It’s a good spot to be in.
I needn’t name names. They filled their needs quickly. We’ve been over this and over this.
They definitley need to add at least one bat. They were bottom three in the AL in average, OBP, slugging, OPS, and total bases. You can’t win a divison with a bottom-3 offense in the league. Sure, they’re adding Adam Frazier, but also losing a 30 home run hitter in Kyle Seager. Probably wouldn’t hurt to add a pitcher either. They were about middle of the pack in ERA, FIP, and WHIP.
They should see noticable improvement with Julio Rodriguez and the handful of pitchers, but adding one reliever, and one of the higher-end bats left on the market, as well as another solid hitter like Brad Miller would complete the team.
All three plus Dylan Moore should likely make up the Mariners bench.
All the talk but i see Chapman (and Olson for that matter) in Oakland’s starting lineup on opening day (whenever that is)…
Why people always suggest of trading a rough cut diamond for a bag full of dog do.? Kind of like with Seattle did years ago with Derek Lowe and Jason veritech for heathcliff Slocum
Seattle is not trading their top, premium prospects.!!!
Name a top five or even top 10 prospects that a team traded for an experienced player; that happened in last 5 to 10 years?
So stop bringing up rodriguez, marte, kirby, hancock…
Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech for Chris Sale (Moncada was considered the best prospect in baseball at the time, Kopech was top 20)
Tyler Glasnow, Austin Meadows, and Shane Baz for Chris Archer (Meadows and Glasnow were both top 10-15 at one point, Baz is now consensus top 50)
Addison Russell for Jeff Samardzjia (Russell was top 10 at the time)
Gleyber Torres for Aroldis Chapman (Torres ranked top 3)
Sixto Sanchez for JT Realmuto (Sanchez ranked top 10-15 at the time)
I’m not saying that it’s common, nor am I saying that the Mariners should trade any of Marte, Rodriguez, Kirby, or Hancock, but just saying it has happnened before.
Blue jays Berrios trade, 2nd and 4th team prospects.
Mmmm NO, Chapman is trending downwards and NOT the best option for a future.
HARD PASS.