The Rays have acquired first baseman/outfielder Jose Martinez, outfielder Randy Arozarena, and the Cardinals’ Competitive Balance Round A draft pick in exchange for left-handed pitching prospect Matthew Liberatore, the Rays’ pick in Competitive Balance Round B, and a catching prospect from the lower levels of the minors, ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan reports (Twitter link). Edgardo Rodriguez is the catcher going to the Cardinals, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal tweets. Passan reported earlier today that Liberatore was headed to St. Louis, with Rosenthal adding that the trade involved six assets and at least two draft picks.
Tampa Bay was known to be looking outfield depth beyond its starting trio of Austin Meadows, Kevin Kiermaier, and Hunter Renfroe, especially after the club non-tendered Guillermo Heredia, its primary fourth outfielder from 2019. Heredia’s role will be filled by Arozarena, who also brings added potential and some strong hitting numbers in his native Cuba, in the minor leagues, and even in his brief 23-plate appearance cameo with the Cardinals last season.
An international signing in the summer of 2016, Arozarena has a .292/.377/.477 slash line and 38 homers over 1302 minor league PA. MLB Pipeline ranked him as the tenth-best prospect in the St. Louis farm system, with a scouting report that expressed some concerns about Arozarena’s aggressiveness at the plate and on the bases, as well as his ability at “making swift adjustments at the plate.” Nonetheless, Arozarena’s hitting approach has only delivered good results thus far, and his speed makes him a solid center field option at least in the near future, if he might be better suited for the corners down the road.
Martinez is also technically a depth option for the Rays in the corner outfield, but given Martinez’s longstanding defensive issues, he has long been tabbed as an ideal candidate to play for an American League team with DH at-bats on offer. The right-handed hitting Martinez will now join three left-handed hitters (Nate Lowe, Ji-Man Choi, and the newly-signed Yoshitomo Tsutsugo) in the first base/DH mix, though Tampa expects Tsutsugo to see some action at third base.
While it remains to be seen how the Rays will fully shuffle and adjust their lineups, Martinez’s primary role seems pretty simple — he’ll be called upon to mash southpaws. The 31-year-old late bloomer has hit .331/.405/.570 with 15 homers over 298 career PA against left-handed pitching, and also solid career numbers against righties, though Martinez’s same-sided productivity declined last season. With fielding no longer a concern, however, the Rays (who have been linked to Martinez on the rumor mill for well over a year) are hoping that Martinez can concentrate fully on being a force at the plate.
The Cardinals entered the offseason with a clear goal of reducing their surplus in the outfield, and between today’s trade and dealing Adolis Garcia to the Rangers last month, St. Louis has achieved that goal without making any significant impact on its 2020 roster. Perhaps most importantly, the Cards were able to move their excess parts while picking up one of baseball’s more promising pitching prospects in Liberatore, whose credentials we detailed earlier today.
Dexter Fowler, Harrison Bader, Lane Thomas, Tyler O’Neill, and utilityman Tommy Edman all figure to play notable roles in the Cardinals’ outfield next season, with top prospect Dylan Carlson on the cusp of his MLB debut and utilitymen Rangel Ravelo and Yairo Munoz also capable of playing on the grass in a pinch. It’s still possible St. Louis could further trade from this collection….or, perhaps, add to it. The Cards have been linked to free agent outfielder Marcell Ozuna all winter long, and re-signing Ozuna would allow the club to put a proven everyday performer in the midst of an outfield group that, besides Fowler, is young and pretty inexperienced at the big league level.
The draft pick swap is also a major component of this deal, as Tampa Bay will now have the 38th overall selection in the 2020 draft and St. Louis moves to 66th overall. (Here is the current draft order, as well as the outline of the Competitive Balance Round selection process.) The Competitive Balance Round picks are the only types of draft selections that can be traded, and the Rays have now boosted their standing next June by almost a full round’s worth of picks. The Cards may see their 28-slot drop as the cost of acquiring a major prospect like Liberatore, who likely wasn’t available for only Martinez and Arozarena.
The 19-year-old Rodriguez has hit .338/.389/.495 with six home runs over his first 244 PA as a professional, two seasons with the Rays’ teams in the Dominican Summer League and rookie-ball Gulf Coast League (though he missed over six weeks this season due to injury). Signed out of Venezuela during the 2017-18 international signing period, Rodriguez was ranked prior to the 2019 season as the 53rd-best prospect in Tampa Bay’s system, as per Fangraphs’ Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen. It remains to be seen if Rodriguez can remain as a catcher, though Longenhagen/McDaniels were impressed by his hitting ability.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Nice trade for St Louis
I would say nice for both sides. Cards get rid of superfluous outfielders and a legit prospect back but get a worse pick in the draft.
I like the trade for both sides but give the edge to STL on this one. The rays window is now and they get two MLB ready players and Jmart absolutely crushes LH pitching. Something the rays needed to balance out their LH heavy lineup. Liberatore has the most upside of the group, but you gotta give some to get some. As things stand today though, cards got the best projected player in the trade. First time they’ve had a LH SP to be excited about in awhile.
Liberatore way more valuable than this. Martinez has almost no trade value. STL came up huge here.
Apparently his trade value is a top pitching prospect so take that big fat bitter L
Thats definitely not his value. I have no idea how the Rays could have been discussing Jose Martinez and not laugh when Liberatore gets mentioned but here we are.
@amk3510 – yup. I’m 100% sure now that @beisbolista does not know what an L means if they think me saying what literally everyone says is an L.
Personal attack much?
Martinez can flat out hit. He’s just such a defensive liability that it’s hard to get him regular AB’s in the NL without it costing them I’m the field. I’ll miss him. He was a fan favorite for a reason, but happy he gets a better chance to play everyday.
How can “literally” everyone say that if you are having an argument with someone NOT saying that?
+Makaio
I wouldnt call a guy who posted an OPS+ under 100 a guy who can flat out hit
@amk3510: The trade was made. By definition, that means it definitely is his value. In any market, the value of a given asset is the price paid.
It was not a 1 for 1 @Alfred. There was 6 pieces involved.
Typical Mad Magazine response. Of course technically speaking, the value is what is paid but there are “better” and “worse” values out there. One store has a name brand TV at a clearance price and the other across the street has a budget brand at list, the same price. Both get sold the same day. Does that mean both customers got equal value? In trades, the idea of course is to get back more in value for your team than what you gave up. That could be immediate return, future, down the road or even an off the field benefit, i.e. payroll.
Needs regular at bats to flat out hit.
Rodriguez is the steal in this trade. That guy will be an all star, maybe MVP caliber catcher in three years. Then, in six years, we’ll watch the Rays trade him and his worn out knees for more top talent.
The Rays, I hate your reluctance to go for the gusto, but I love your craftiness.
Uh, Rodriguez is going to STL. How’s Tampa gonna trade him again?
The Cardinals got the young catcher Rodriguez not the Rays
I believe RA with JMart and the 38th pick is the pieces needed the Rays are brilliant in building the farm. I also believe that both players the Card gave will start.
what an absolutely unbelievable trade made by mozeliak and co. getting a top left handed pitching prospect without giving up oneill or bader. gm of the year. i think yes.
Agreed. Cards needed to spend some of their wealth in the OF, but to get this trade done with only including Martinez and a pick swap is pretty good. Pretty, pretty good.
exactly!!
This is a couple tiers under the Swanson deal, but yes, STL brutalized TB here, unless the Rays have a ton of guys in the draft they’re monitoring and think Honeywell is going to hit MLB.
McKay might be sick too. Maybe they can afford to give someone away for pennies on the dollar to get another 1st rounder.
I would have much rather traded oneil than arozarena. Other than that i like the move amd am happy for jose martinez. He deserves more at bats and belongs in the AL.
You weren’t saying that in 2018 when he traded Pham for a bag of peanuts and a big gulp
look where we are now?? about to trade for arenado and have the best infield in baseball while having incredible young pitching talent. that bag of peanuts were definitely roasted and salted
Time will tell. Tampa historically have won most pitching trades so let’s see what the return is like two years from now.
The Rays have the deepest farm system in baseball so they will be able to replace Leberatore.
Tampa rarely loses trades. They don’t spend much, but they have certainly earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to evaluating talent.
Sorry hammer. I spent time typing and then read your comment. Although not much has happened so far, I’m hoping Bloom was the key to those past trades.
No worries. It’s definitely a confusing deal right now. If nothing else, the Rays improved now to try to keep pace with the Yankees, while getting some pieces for the future, as well.
Well Tampa lost this one big time
I’m guessing TB sees something big in Arozarena. This isn’t what you give for a guy like Martinez. They must also see something in Liberatore that they think won’t translate well. I’m not going to call a deal a loss-especially from that FO on day 1 of the deal. We’ll see how this one goes but it looks like a great grab from STL at this point.
I would love to see the Rays relocate to a city that will support them.
The Rays have a pretty great track record when it comes to identifying pitching talent. They also never seem to be on the losing end of trades. Prospect rankings are fun let’s give this some time before deciding who came up big.
Don’t like it. See it as yet more Mo being cheap rather than doing real rotation upgrades. Shock me.
Socratic, i don’t like it either, because Bader and Wong are still here.
Between the marlins dfa’n half their roster and the rays making this riciculous overpay for Martinez (whom the cardinals have been trying to get rid of for more than a year) i dont know which florida GM is worse right now. Less Liberatore is gonna miss 3 years due to TJ starting this year this makes zero sense
Both teams get a decent prospect RA will be the starting CF if not this year maybe next the guy is the 22nd fastest player in all of baseball if he figures how to get on base consistently in the bigs he will be Awsome for years.
They’ve been trying to dump Martinez for two years! Who gives up a top lefty prospect for a DH when they just signed a guy from Japan who is also defensively challenged.
Martinez is a legit Major League hitter. He’s always had quite a bit of trade value to AL teams. The Cardinals just didn’t get a good enough offer when they tried to trade him last offseason.
Don’t be surprised after a year if it looks like a win for the Rays based on Arozarena’s production.
Agree paddy he is the high light person in the trade. Plus the draft pick they can replace Liberatore easily.
They don’t need to replace Liberatore. They already have McKay and McClanahan (who I personally rate higher than Liberatore anyway – he had a huge second half improvement). Aroz is already a legit 4th OF who is improving and has a lot of tools he’s not yet utilizing. JMart could be a 3 win player if he doesn’t need to play in the field. The Cards free up some space and get one of the best LHP prospects in the majors. I think this is a win-win.
I read Yairo Munoz also going to TB.
Where did you see that?
Right up above, lol…
Yeah, I feel like TB could’ve done better than this return
Good trade Mozeliak. Good luck Jose Martinez with the Rays.
I agree. Cardinals got the best of this trade. When they resigned Martinez I figured they would use those two years to see if they could get him involved with a trade and they succeeded. He will fit in well with the Rays. Calling 35 HR in that dome.
im calling 30 HRS 95 RBI and a solid .295 batting average. sort of like a Nicholas Castellanos type of deal. possibly stick him at DH or 1B though. defense is not the best.
DH-only types have always had almost no trade value. Very strange JMart, who is a fine hitter but nothing else, should bring in a top 5 prospect from a strong farm.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Rays main target here was Arozarena. He has 6 years of control, 4 above average tools with his only below average tool his power, which looks like it is starting to click, and has now had success at every level of MiLB. I agree that the initial return looks light for a prospect of Liberatore’s quality, but the Rays rarely make moves without a well thought out plan.
Yeah. People are focusing on Martinez as the centerpiece. Kinda like teams did with DeShields in the Kluber deal. The known name isn’t always the most valuable piece. I’d imagine TB did this one for Arozarena. They must be very high on him.
Classe is probably more likely to fizzle out this year than be a long term stud i wouldnt call that a win for my tribe. We shall see i guess, for him and this Azzzz kid.
The main target WAS Arozarena.
JMart was the secondary piece.
35 hr seems like a major stretch considering he has 41 for his entire career
when he only gets 3 plate appearances in a 4 game series it is very hard to produce good numbers
He has nearly 1200 abs.
the centerpiece is definitely martinez. as an everyday you can expect 35 hrs and 100 rbi out of him while still putting up a great average around the .300 mark. arozarena will take some work with the hitting coaches but i see him as a young christian yelich or ronald acuna if he pans out the way people say he will! not as bad of a trade as people say it is. you also cannot forget about the 1st round competitive pick. lots of stars come out of this round!
i am also a cardinals fan. very excited to see liberatore go to the rockies;)
really? i think it’s more likely the Cubs
the cubs arent even in the race anymore they are just driving the price up for the league leading cardinals. they have bryant and baez on the left side so where would arenado go?
Cards won’t trade for Arenado when they could just sign Donaldson for less money and keep the prospects.
put $50 on it?
According to sportstrac Cards are projected to be 27 million dollars from luxury tax threshold. They might go over the luxury tax but I doubt it and what would they do with carpenter? A 20 million dollar bench bat?
Why would the Cardinals do either? They can’t afford Arenado or Donaldson, and they’re stuck with Carpenter at 3B (with Edman backing him up). Unless one of them is secretly learning to play LF or they can somehow dump the Carpenter contract on someone, the Cardinals have no interest in either of those guys.
Lol all these people gushing over Martinez’s offense when he was a league average bat last year and has been trending steadily downward since year 1. He should NEVER play defense anywhere, especially 1B. I’m extremely happy he’s off the roster so we don’t have to have Shildt shoehorning his meh bat into the lineup over clearly better alternatives. He’s a great guy, but he’s a replacement level or below guy. Arozarena is the centerpiece of the Rays haul by a wide margin. JMart is a distant 3/3 in terms of value behind the draft pick upgrade.
name one player other than ozuna and goldy that hit better than jmart
Suarez
hes not a cardinal :p
I dont think the cards sent a centerpiece. This is a classic quantity for quality trade.
The draft pick could easily end up being the centerpiece
He has 41 hr in 1156 major league abs. Huge leap to think 35 and 100 is possible
its different when a player does not have a routine to stick with. one day he is starting and the next 2 hes not and then he is for 3 games and then hes out for 3 etc. but look at when he starts every game for 3-4 series in a row… he crushes the competition. about 45% of his at bats were taken when he got put into the game in the 4th inning or later (pinch hitter or double switch for the pitcher or injuries etc.) and he has only hit about 7-12 of those homers from those games. from the games that he has started he hit 29-34 of those hrs. so martinez in the starting lineup is much more dangerous. 600 abs with 29-34 homers that is about 27 homeruns a year. plus he wasnt starting consistently like that, so those stretches were a good time for him and he more than likely felt comfortable while in those stretches of him starting.
He was an everyday player in 2018 and hit a whopping 17 hr but ok.
That is exactly how the Rays will use him. Barring injury, JMart will mostly likely be a short side platoon 1B/DH for the Rays.
True, but for the people that gush over batting average, aka the 2nd most overrated stat in baseball, just behind WAR, he hit .305 that same season.
There is no centerpiece. The rays got value on every single piece in the deal, with arozarena being the highlight
Traded a player with no position in the NL and a young guy who streamed a video that embarrassed his manager, for a good young prospect. Looks good.
first post reply…blahblahblah
Jose finally gets to hit everyday. good for him
Agreed! If only my Royals had a low cost, effective DH type like Jose Martinez…
Oh wait!
Did you try to make yourself feel better?
You’re not really familiar with sarcasm, are you? I know, somethings are nuanced & over your head.
It’s okay…
Since we got him from the Royals…
Highly doubtful. The Rays have an abundance of 1B/DH types. I love Martinez’s bat, but he’ll be competing with Nate Lowe, Ji-Man Choi, Yandy Diaz, and Tsutsugo for at-bats. He’ll play everyday against LHP, but, right or wrong, he’ll sit plenty against righties. If I thought the Rays would use him as an everyday player I’d be a little more optimistic about this trade. It definitely helps their offense this year, but they probably could have done better… Of course they may have another deal in the works to thin out some of that 1B/DH group.
YYYEEEEESSSSSSS. Sad to see Jose go from a fan perspective, but this is a huge get for Mo without giving up a whole lot. Let’s go Cards!
Hopefully jmart will shine as a dh
He better be good for that haul.
horrible return for the rays
Cardinals did very well here
Lol what a letdown
Terrible for the Rays. I get they think this could be another Yandy Diaz but Liberatore is a lot more of a risk to move than Jake Bauers. This is trying to be too cute.
This is the fastest I’ve ever called a Rays trade dumb before.
Just sign Matt Adams for $1M, smh
I actually think rays will be pleased with both those guys. Arozarena had a very good year at triple A and has tools like speed and defense that are dependable.
Arozarena might also be a 5th OF/AAAA guy.
Martinez has to face Gerrit Cole and Hyun-Jin Ryu a bunch of times now. Yikes.
Liberatore might never make it past aa ball. So what
Rays needed an RH bat. Already have a bunch of lefties at 1B/DH.
Given Tampa’s track record, we should all be wondering what they know that we don’t
True but DHs grow on trees. Young stud LHPs don’t.
Wonder who the prospect is
Todd Van Poppel
Lmao now that’s a name i haven’t heard in a while
This is just like a prospect swap and draft picks kinda boring but fun for cards to get either Nolan or betts
Now it can be said. Nice trade for St Louis. They really didn’t want Martinez on the roster. It was obvious they would try and deal him.
Clearing up some room in the OF to sign Ozuna.
Wishful thinking as a cardinals fan: Hopefully collecting some pieces to make a run for Arenado
Don’t see them getting Arenado but I hope so
Same buddy. If they don’t, I’m happy with this trade either way.
Since when can Arenado play LF? The Cardinals already have an expensive 3B (and a good backup).
Seems like a good trade for both sides. Rays have pitching depth and needed a solid RH bat.
I dont know enough about Arozarena to make a complete decision but definitely a win now move by the Rays. Hopefully JMart is what they wanted Aguilar to be. Liberatore certainly has that potential. But with TBs depth they should be happy overall with this deal if Jmart is solid in 2020 and Arozarena does anything of note. Rays Up!
JMart is the 3rd most valuable piece in this deal. He’s replacement level, but cheap enough to fit the TB business model. Arozarena has a high floor due to good defense and baserunning. Those alone will make him more valuable than Martinez even if his bat is a little below average.
I think given the at bats at dh he will be much better than replacement level. I predict career year from Jose.
What happened with Arrenado???
Those Cards fans were certain it was gonna be a 3 team deal
Not so fast lol
Hey genius, ever hear of making a trade to stockpile talent to facilitate another trade?
Ever hear it’s not happening
Amazing how you can predict the future. You should use your awesome powers to help all mankind.
If I were you I wouldn’t get my hopes up on him going to Atlanta. Yeah the Braves have the prospects to get it done but not sure about financially. I could see Texas maybe acquiring Arenado. Regardless the Cardinals made out like bandits in this trade IF they Liberatore pans out. They could send him in another big trade too. We will wait and see what they have planned in due time.
Which Cards fans? You suck at trolling.
Ok there tough guy settle down
Look back in prior threads and tell me it wasn’t filled with Arrenado will be a Cardinal
May not have been you but it happened
Nobody is trolling just pointing out how fast some Cardinal fans imaginations starting running wild
But no reason to be a keyboard tough guy it’s very unbecoming
O ya, you fans are so dumb for hoping your team makes a trade for someone, and on a baseball rumor page of all places! You and your parents should be ashamed of you!
I will back up @steelerbravenation. The original board from a couple hours ago was full of Cards fans saying that this was going to be a three team deal with Nolan heading to St Louis.
I heard Amsinger say the same thing tonight. on MLB tonight.
Steeler you sound like a butt-hurt Dodgers fan lol
They said they HOPED they thought it was for Arenado. Not that is WAS going to happen. Those things are completely different.
Cards may sign Castellanos as you cannot have two below average corner OFs on the same NL roster…. Until they dumped Martinez, it was a non-starter for them. Castellanos may demand a contract a bit lower than Ozuna and provide similar offensive numbers.
And worse defense…
I don’t see Castellanos getting a smaller contract than Ozuna.
And Yairo Munoz im hearing
Great trade for the Rays
Hate to see Martinez go, his enthusiasm for the game is contagious, but he can DH now. Good for him, glad to see he is headed to a contender. Arozarena is talented, but blocked. Would rather it had been O’Neill but the Cards kept Edman.
Martinez is a goofball. Keep Ozuna away and I might start watching again.
Well if you aren’t watching then you must not be that big of a fan. So why are you on this site if you don’t even watch the games and claim you don’t care?
STL did very well, not sure why TB does this
Tampa did this because they no longer have Pham and Garcia, plus it fits their $20.99 payroll
they could have gotten a lot more than that elsewhere. dumb trade
Source?
anyone with half a brain
And how do you know?
No that’s a non answer. You can’t just make things up. You can argue as to what other better opportunities may have been out there hypothetically but you can’t just toss out absolutes haphazardly and expect to be taken seriously.
The rays need rhbs. Martinez is a great career hitter vs lhps, the rays biggest weakness. The rays got a controlled arozarena (also rhb) who has a good floor with the chance to be great considering his prospect rankings are likely lagging his performance this year (it was really good in the upper minors). The rays ALSO got essentially a first round draft pick. Gee, I wonder why they made the trade
Arozarena isnt just a throw in, guy had an unreal season at memphis. I think he will become a very good major league outfielder.
Wouldn’t shock me to see him go .300/.400/.500 with 40 doubles, 20 homers, and 30 steals. He’s good.
I dont see 20 homers, but I think he could be very good. I’m a Cards fan and was really hooing it was oneil and jose martinez. Arozarena was not given enough of a chance last year in my opinion.
i live in stl and got to go see a redbirds game this past summer and arozarena was very fun to watch and might be one to look out for!
He hit 16 last season in 111 games. I’m not sure I would count on it, but I also wouldn’t call it a stretch if he could get enough PAs.
yea i agree with that. either way he could end up being the biggest prize in this trade. i hope it works out for both teams.
Totally agree but get ready for the proverbial comments like it’s the “juiced ball” or it’s “just PCL stats”…
Just wait…
PCL juiced ball
Well played, lol…
Lol what a horrible trade for the Rays
Dude wait till you see Martinez as and everyday. He has an eccentric personality and can hit like a MF. 35 HR next year… watch.
He does not have that power, at all
go back to NY
Rays have Shane B & Shane M in the minors for top young SP. They have Morton, Snell, Glasnow, Chirinos, Yarbrough as their top 5 along with McKay & Richards for top depth + a rehabbing Honeywell. They gain 30 slots in the draft that also comes with more bonus $$. They add a quality top OF along with their needed top bat.
Plus with the B. O’Grady acquisition the Rays have very good OF depth now.
Who is the centerpiece here for the Rays? It is obvious who the Cards got, but I honestly don’t know enough about Arozarena to fully comprehend much less evaluate this trade.
the centerpiece is definitely martinez. as an everyday you can expect 35 hrs and 100 rbi out of him while still putting up a great average around the .300 mark. arozarena will take some work with the hitting coaches but i see him as a young christian yelich or ronald acuna if he pans out the way people say he will! not as bad of a trade as people say it is. you also cannot forget about the 1st round competitive pick. lots of stars come out of this round!
What on earth
OPS+ trending downward: 174, 134, 124, 97…
OPS trending downward: 1,000, .897, .821, .751
Agree Moever…Martinez is at most a throw-in…he has been trending downward…I like how people are already judging this trade…a lot can happen…the lefty could fall apart and The Randy A could be a MVP…or vis versa…personally I hope they flip him for Arenado…the window for the cardinals is now…they just traded for Goldy…get Arenado and resign Ozuna that is a great line up…plus a good staff and bullpen…definitely NL central favorites and team to beat in the playoffs
There is no centerpiece. The rays got value on every single piece. Arozarena has the chance to breakout though
Arozarena is a solid get. Can really hit and has a lot of speed. J Mart will be a solid DH and a last of the first round pick for a 16th overall. Rays better now and Cards get a lottery ticket of an ace a few years down the road. Good deal.
The centerpiece is moving 40 or so places up in the draft.
Arozarena was the Cardinals #10 prospect, hardly anything to hang your hat on there.
At minimum, Montero should have been in over Arozarena. I love Liberatore, he’s going to be legit if healthy, and you hate seeing a team try and rely on TJ guys like Honeywell. Rays should have gotten way way more than this.
Thanks Strike. Seems like an odd centerpiece for TB. I’d hold on to a possible ace. Then again, I’m not sure I remember what it is like to have a stud pitching prospect ha ha.
Cards have a pretty good farm system. not as good as TB. arozarena has skills. he could be ranked anywhere from 5th to 10th IMO.
Prospect rankings don’t mean much for a Cuban defector who is coming off a breakout season
There doesn’t have to be a headliner. the draft choice/bonus slot addition is a key piece. Arozarena is the other key piece. TB obviously likes Martinez to be their DH as well. TB must love Arozarena. I don’t know enough about him as a prospect to say one way or the other. But with TB’s track record—I’m willing to give them some benefit of the doubt.
Liberatore is a 50 FV prospect whom scouts see as a potential #3 starter. He’s in low A ball and his numbers were good, but not overwhelming.
I’d really caution people to not look at some sites prospect rankings and think the Cardinals just bent the Rays over . That’s kinda what we heard when they got Tyler O’Neill for Marco Gonzales too. The Rays FO is pretty good. This might be a miss for them but I’m not going to say it is-until proven that it is.
Good assessment.
Hate to lose young player like Randy but give something to get something.
I think St. Louis wins this trade, but we can never doubt anything that the Rays do. They’ve added legitimate power to their lineup, which is something they desperately needed. Martinez will most likely serve as a full-time DH with an occasional start in RF. They also get a young OF with upside and a catching prospect which every team could use in their system. I’m surprised it wasnt O’Niell but this is a pretty even trade, all things considered. Cardinals starting staff of the future is looking really strong.
i think this trade is hard to lose from a STL perspective. even if both players go bust, they had to sort out their OF depth. being able to get a front line pitcher for a guy with no defensive home and perhaps the least proven of their OF depth is a clear win.
The Cards get the catching prospect.
The catcher went from Tampa to STL. Not sure he’s much of a prospect though.
Martinez isn’t much either though
Good trade for Cards. They have 400 RH OF’s. This is a top 50 LHP starter prospect. Either good for them long term or to package for a big bat. If it were me I’d offer Hudson, Carlson, this kid from Tampa and two other lower tier prospects to Colorado for Arenado.
Too much IMO unless Colorado pays some of that contract
Good thing you are not the GM
Arrenado opts out in 2 yrs and you will be looking for another job
I wouldn’t be so sure of Arenado opting out in 2 years regardless if he gets traded or stays in Colorado
Great trade for the Cards and this is coming from a Cubs fan
It’s not the immediate return Cards fans were hoping for but Liberatore is a legit top prospect and could be very valuable down the road as a starter or trade chip. Might not be the only trade they make in the coming days.
What Cardinal fans thought Martinez and Arozarena would bring in a legit MLBer? DH-only types have zero trade value and Arozarena was the #10 STL prospect.
Was meaning any kind of immediate help trade they’ve been waiting for the whole offseason. Not necessarily just involving Martinez. When they weren’t signing early on many were holding out hope on the trade front for MLB help.
Gotcha
Finally that goofball Martinez is gone, but the K brothers stay.
martinez was always a DH.. this will be good for him
dang that’s all? Martinez should do well in the AL, dont get me wrong, and i like Arozarena, but Liberatore is seriously talented. only thing i can think is that Liberatore didnt fit their pitching system well.
Totally agree, again! Liber rules and it’s cool he gets reunited with Gorman, but damn, the Rays sold low, unless it was all about getting another first rounder next year.
If you were born in 1996, then the Cardinals been a contending team every year of your life. Also, the only true rebuilding phase in team history was 1994-95. Mind blown.
K4, you’re really stretching credibility to say that the “only true rebuilding phase on team history” is 1994-1995. There’s this thing called Beisbol Reference …
The players going to TB tells me the Birds have no intention of resigning Ozuna or making any other moves. More smoke and glass from Mo…same lame OF that everyone in Cardinals nation that isn’t a homer has envisioned. Time will tell but THIS will be the entirety of their offseason.
How does it tell you there is no chance of Ozuna? They just cleared two OFs off their roster, if anything it looks like they have room for him now.
The fact they didn’t trade Bader or O’Neil…jus seems like another trade to make the farm system good. Starting opening day lineup, O’Neil L, Bader C and Fowler in R…
They are reportedly shopping Fowler, which will open up a space for Ozuna.
They could trade O’Neill or Bader and Fowler(if they are truly shopping Fowler)along with Jake Woodford or Matt Liberatore and maybe Junior Fernandez for Arrenado and possibly Jon Gray. Thoughts?
Seems Colorado wants an OF option so that seems extremely logical. I just don’t know if this front office has the guts to take on that contract.
Who in their right mind would take Fowler?
The entire thought of the trade would be a salary dump for both teams…if the cardinals were willing to take on most if not all of the Nolan deal I could see Colorado taking on some of the Fowler deal. It’s all going to come down to money, which neither of these teams want to spend.
Except that Arenado is worth his deal and Fowler isn’t…
Exactly! But at the same time 50ish million and a couple hundred million are 2 different subjects…I would love for this to happen, I just can’t see this front office doing it. That’s the point of my orginal statement.
But mo4ever if you give this lefty and say Gorman..two top 100 prospects and maybe even another outfielder then you make up for the value of Fowler’s contract
That sounded like a fantasy baseball trade lol
You wouldn’t give up two top 40 prospects for someone to eat 2 years – 35 mil of a bad contract of a slightly below league average OF’er lol
Gorman and the lefty are Low A prospects…hardly a guarantee
unfortunately, you are brutally correct…STL is stuck with Fowlup & MCarp.
man this is the first prediction I got right the whole off season ..and it’s not even a fa smh
Making room to bring Ozuna back
Couldn’t the rays just sign an outfielder? I don’t see this being a win for them.
But that doesn’t get them the high draft pick.
i get the feeling Liberatore is gonna get flipped in a deal for Arenado
Love how everyone overvalues Prospects, especially 1 that hasnt pitched higher than A ball. Now if somehow they flip him in a trade to get Arenado than its a great deal for Cards. Rays needed 2 RH hitters and they achieved that by dealing a unproven Prospect
Fernando Tatis Jr. says hi!
How many top 50 prospects become Tatis, and how many flame out after 3 or less years in the bigs? The Rays have to do something to keep pace with the Yankees in the East
“especially 1 that hasnt pitched higher than A ball.” is the dumbest thing I have ever read here. Please stop writing it, it hurts my eyes.
Cause low minor pitching prospects are amongst the most certain of bets …
Time will tell
Tell him I say hello also-
For every 1 that pans out a ton dont.
Its a HUGE roll of the dice.
As a Cub Fan Mark Prior comes to mind-
Mark Prior is nothing what we are talking about here.
I’m not sure you even understand what you even hate anymore….
At least the cubs don’t over value pitching prospects. They never seem to have any.
Mo did just say he expected things to start picking up. Hopefully this isn’t the only “picking up” move he was referring to. Still need a bat for the offense to take off.
Arozarena on base in front of Meadows. That has runs scored all over it.
Smh. Always room for another Italian in the Lou. Btw, Jose Martinez is no outfielder…
I don’t like this deal for Tampa.
Yankee fan here…terrible terrible trade by Rays…keep up the good work and congrats Cardinal Nation.
Bankees fan quaking at the rhbs the rays are adding.
Pffft!!
Paxton is crapping his pants
In your dreams, yandy
Yandy and randy will terrorize the pinstripes this year. Viva la cuba
Couple of thoughts on this one
1) Does anyone besides me think that the Cards are just gonna flip Liberatore in a deal for Nolan Arenado? Not very likely, but could happen.
2) Best of wishes to Jose Martinez in TB. Great spot for him. Corner OF or DH most likely for him.
3) I’m surprised that the Rays didn’t get a pitcher in this deal. That was one of the things I was expecting in this type deal.
4) The pick going to the Rays is No. 38 in next year’s draft, and the pick the Cardinals got is No. 66 overall.
The pick numbers are not set in stone yet because they could change based on where the remaining QO free agents sign.
True, True. But if I’m right, the QO picks this year are either 2nd or 3rd round picks, not compensation.
It’s a team’s 2nd or 3rd pick, so it could be a compensation round pick for some teams. And they definitely could be before the later pick.
The additional Slot money that comes with that pick is perhaps of bigger importance than where the pick is itself.
No, I don’t think the Cardinals will trade for Arenado
Cards throwing in the towel already. Them and cubs. Don’t blame em considering moves reds made
If you don’t like the deal for Tampa you’re clearly just comparing players and not whole teams situation. Rays are trying to win now so they trade a low A pitcher for two guys who can rake and went up in the draft… as a win now team that’s quite a deal while winning more now and still improving the future. Cardinals don’t lose much for next year and gain some future, win win for both sides
That is their defense for sure, and it’s fair. Honestly it’s mostly Arozarena who is the odd piece out here. Elehuris Montero quells a lot of the questions, but like Ive said, maybe this is about the Rays getting another 1st rounder more than anything else.
How is arozarena the odd piece out. The guy obliterated the upper minors.
The Rays have a knack of always finding undervalued players who break out for them. On the surface this trade looks iffy because Liberatore is so highly regarded, but I’ll trust the Rays front office on this one.
I think that’s the smart take. Arozarena may be a hidden gem. Plus, pitchers that haven’t even made it to AA aren’t exactly locks.
Arozarena doesn’t project to the 26-man right now, so if he will have to hide for a while until injury/form open a spot for him.
Renfroe, KK, Meadows
Yandy, Yoshi, Willy, BLowe, Choi
Perez, Zunino
Robertson, Arozarena, Martinez, Wendle
Just my guess on Bench players
They probably won’t carry 5 bench players. Arozarena is probably starting at AAA. All can change of course.
Yeah I did haha I read he prefers to be called Yoshi 🙂
I listed 4 and one is the DH
I see you listed 14 players. I think they’re only carrying 13. Roster Resource agrees.
I was just throwing another in case they go 14/12 for the 26 player roster. Should be interesting. Wendle/Arozarena/Robertson would be odd man out in my opinion
Aroz and N. Lowe will probably be first men up, depending on where there are injuries. Aroz could stand to get everyday at bats, and I’m not sure that happens with this roster unless Cash decides to go with a 4/5 man rotation in the OF.
Trusting the Rays FO is the smart thing to do. They’ve rarely gotten burnt in a deal. Martinez will be the RH part of a DH with Choi. He’s dangerous in the outfield though.
He can definitely leave his glove in St Louis for all I care haha
Tampa Bay right now:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zos5mEkD4e0
Tampa is lefty heavy.
Adding a Major league Hitter with 1156 ab’s with a career line of .298 .363 .458
is a good move.
Now Jose doesn’t have to play the field. Dude is gonna thrive in Tampa and focus on hitting full time.
Arozarena is another Major League ready piece to play versus lefties and might just work his way into the daily lineup..
Tampa wants to win now and this is a fantastic move to help them compete.
Cardinals do well to consolidate the glut of quality OFers and now have a quality arm to develop or package to upgrade the offense.
or the Cardinals got an ace and future Cy Young winner for a DH-only guy and a 5th OF.
Yeah because everyone that has a 3,10 ERA in low A is going to win a Cy Young Award in the future. It’s just that easy. I guess by that time people could be giving them to everyone as participation trophies so no one gets hurt feelings, but as of now it seems a bit far-fetched.
Jeez how many cringe buzzwords can you fit in one post? Go away you loser lol
Prospect evaluators (aka guys who get paid to evaluate talent) put Matt Liberatore as a potential #3 starter.
It’s obvious you do not listen to others and rather give out uninformed hot air opinions. A clear pattern has developed.
All depends on who you listen to. Though not everyone has fully updated their lists for 2020, MLB..com most recently said #3 while Prospects Live’s Matt Thompson called him a #2 and Eric Cross at Fantrax says he “has the makings of a bonafide #2 starter or maybe even a future ace.” Fangraphs didn’t put a number on it but cited his “immense ceiling.” But yeah, maybe a bit early to be talking Cy Young.
You make a lot of sense. No one really knows who won this deal although a lot of armchair GMs think that they know.
This seems like a very short sighted move for a Rays team that has done well by playing the long game over the last decade
I’m guessing there must be a lot of warning signs with Yandy, Yoshi and Ji-Man and I don’t really blame them, but I also believe Liberatore was worth more than that in a trade and both things are true.
Jose Martinez is useless in my book, Arozarena should be the headliner
The only thing I predicted that came true so far: once most of the FA’s signed, the dust will settle, teams will look where they can upgrade and then the trades will begin. It’s been a strange offseason heavy on FA signs with barely any trades so far. But now they a-comin!
Rays get the right handed bats we needed, needed a DH that can hit…got em. Needed a 4th outfield type that can play any of the spots and gives them another good stick and defense to rotate around plus they move up 40 spots in the draft.
All for a guy who hasn’t pitched above Class A and is at least 2-3 years away. Love this move
Jose Martinez had an OPS of 751…
Had a down year ♂️
Career .298 hitter
I’ll take that
Jose Martinez has a career .380 xwoba
OPS+ has been going down…
171, 134, 124, 97…
Fact.
Seems like a guy with a good ops+ to me who had a down year. Plus, rays are gonna use him mainly vs lhps who he has obliterated in his career.
“All for a guy who hasn’t pitched above Class A and is at least 2-3 years away.” – you surely are either 9 years old or trolling.
Pitched for bowling green last year which is Class A? Didn’t say he wasn’t good, a lot can happen between now and when he reaches the majors
Or he is realistic about the Rays being contenders now and probably not contenders in 2-3 years in the AL East.
The Rays will only get better. Best farm system in baseball and #1 prospect Franco very close.
Don’t kid yourself on that. The Rays are contenders now and will still be in 2-3 years. Most of their core is locked up for multiple years and they have the best farm system in MLB. We probably won’t even see the best of this team for another 2-3 years.
The guy is probably still upset the Rays traded away a proven ace like Archer for a prospect and two guys who failed in big leagues.
Yeah we got fleeced by the pirates, def wish we could undo that trade lmao
I don’t think anyone thought the trade was for two failures and a prospect. Meadows was 23 and played in 25 total games and Glasgow was a high prospect who didn’t find it yet at the old age of 25. I think I recall most thinking the pirates did what they had to do short term while Tampa won the deal hands down.
Hey guy, pitching prospects aren’t automatic. In case you were unaware, the rays had one of the best pitching prospects in the game two years ago, and what happened to mr Honeywell? He is working back from tommy john. Liberatore is a beast projection wise, but it’s a long road from a ball to mlb
If you want to go back a bit more, what about Matt Moore?
Good trade for STL. Martinez’s OPS+ and OPS has decreased every year he’s been in the league and he’s on the wrong side of 30 now. Unless he returns to what he was two years ago, it’s basically Arozarena and the upgraded pick for Liberatore.
Both teams could come out of this with a win.
Cards landed a prospect, and maybe two, for a part time player (Martinez) and a AAA OF with no place to play in a crowded outfielder.
Rays acquire a good hitter and a AAA OF coming off a great season.
Well played on both sides.
The Rays were “well-played” alright. They gave up a future ace for a DH-only and a 5th OF aka guys with zero trade value.
You know he’s a future ace? Wasn’t mark appell and Forrest whittley
Exactly……the low minors are filled with future aces who never even make AAA.
Future ace? There’s about 10-15 TRUE aces in the entire league rn. Saying Liberatore, a 19 year old, will become an ace is crazy talk. His ceiling is an ace. But his floor could be Mark Appel, just as kc38 stated.
Its funny how you say that for Liber, but probably think Arozarena has an all-star ceiling. Smh.
Can you tell me when i said that? Or you just like to assume you know what other people think? No I don’t think he has an all star ceiling. But he’s got a decent ceiling, and a decent floor. Hes had success in the upper minors and a small sample size in the big leagues. Liberatore hasn’t even made AA. So more risk with Liberatore, plus he’s a pitcher, there’s always more risk with pitchers
The Rays improved their team as they are in win-now mode. That’s what you do. When you root for a team that doesn’t know what winning is in October it’s understandable you’d have no clue.
I don’t root for any specific team, I cover all 30 teams. I’m a BASEBALL fan, not some worthless homer.
You’re a worthless homer. Not the most worthless but a strong candidate. Hall of Very Worthless.
I’m as high on Liberatore as anybody and was ecstatic when he fell to the Rays in the draft, but I think you’re too low on Arozarena. Dude was a top international prospect who has 4 above average tools. He raked in AA/AAA/MLB last season and looks like he has started to tap into his power, which was his worst tool.
He also isn’t just a projection only tools guy, since he has put up the numbers to match. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up settling in as a 3+ WAR OF.
I don’t think it’s as lopsided as many of you think. TB is getting back players with much less risk, more of a chance they will play in the big leagues and stay there. Yes, St.L is getting back more upside, but much more risk. Win win for both teams imo.
That’s how I feel about it. The Cards took on risk to clear the OF. The draft pick the Rays get helps mitigate their risk if Arozarana really is just a 4th or 5th OF. But I think he’s better than that. I think the Rays did well.
The Rays must be ridden with guilt about the Archer trade and are trying to lose trades to equalize their karma.
Or something.
Cards won big here.
Given Tampa’s history, I feel like I have to give them the benefit of the doubt until I’m proven wrong. It seems like a head scratcher, but I wouldn’t be shocked if this ends up being a win for Tampa in 4 years
They do well more often than not, but this has the feeling of the Souza trade. They could have had Turner but went with the more major league ready Souza.
Give me a possible everyday player for a pitching prospect when hes several years away anyday. He may end up a #2 or #3 who can only help every 5th day. They’re trading from a position of depth.
Arozarena will be the key to this trade…Martinez has no value for STL except PH.
Jose Martinez was the one guy I didnt want to see going to Tampa, ugh. He’s a great hitter and I’ve wanted him on the Yankees for years. That being said I didnt think it’d cost Liberatore for him, so kudos to St. Louis
He had a .751 OPS last year. 97 OPS+.
He had a .997 ops vs lhps. I think the rays will take their chances platooning him
Erik Neander is a god
Do the players the cards recieved have to be placed on the 40 man.
no
Ok thanks leaves spits for more moves
Spit
Rays acquired what they needed. A power RH bat that can play the field when need be along with a RH CF backup for Keirmaier. Both these player rake as hitters that barrel the ball and hit for average. Matt Libatore was one of our best SP prospects and now we only have 4 more along with 7 Starters on the MLB club. Neander traded from our strength and got MLB players back-Cudos. While trading a very good prospect-Remember Cardinal fans, 80% of prospects never make it to the majors but Libatore is a good one.good luck with that.
Glad to see the Cards are putting that much needed competitive balance pick to good use.
Sarcasm aside, I do hope the next CBA allows ALL picks to be traded.
Man that would be awful. You have about 10 All Star teams with zero draft picks and 20 AAAA teams with about 20 extra picks each every year around the deadline. It’s bad enough in the NBA with just two rounds to trade. MLB with 40 would be awful.
Unless Tampa knows something about Liberatore’s medicals that nobody else knows, this trade does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
He’s a 19 year old that had BACK PROBLEMS last year
Wow nice one RAYS. Jose Martinez is so underrated it’s not even funny!
How? He’s a professional hitter, for sure, but with no position, and no power.
Good thing they have a position specifically for professional hitters in the American league
Doesn’t make him underrated. Have fun having a .780 OPS and 105 OPS+ in the DH spot? lol
Nice retreat from “he’s a professional hitter for sure”. Love watching cowards squirm
Good trade for Cards
Surplus trade. Martinez will rake. I’ve seen a few projections that aren’t as high on Liberatore. sixmanrotation.com is one. TB has an extraordinary track record re: evaluation and I tend to side w/ them. I say TB wins this trade until Liberatore proves otherwise.
Martinez will rake facing Gerrit Cole and Hyun-Jin Ryu a bunch of times???
Limited guys going NL-to-AL historically have proven to bust often too.
What a clown comment. What player rakes against gerrit cole generally? As far as ryu, yes Martinez will likely rake against him as he had a 160wrc+ vs lhps in 2019
rays win. rays win.
Liberators is a 19 yr. old prospect who hasn’t pitched above A ball. Arozorena is a bit older but a hitter that lacks discipline and at the same time has been knocked for his lack of aggression at the plate. We won’t know winners/losers or good deal for bot.
I’ll take the guy who had a 160 wrc at aa and 150 at aaa
Arozarena has been knocked for his aggression at the plate, not his lack of it.
Well, this is a complete surprise. On the surface, seems like a complete anti-Rays move. Then again, teams rarely come out thr better after trading with the Rays. So I’ll withhold judgement!
It’s not that anti-Rays. In the last few years, they’ve traded prospects for Tommy Pham and Nick Anderson.
This deal makes Tampa Bay better this season. This was a playoff team and if healthy, I can do some real damage in the postseason. A healthy Snell, Morton, and Glasnow can hang with any teams’ top 3 starters. Obviously they gave up a lot to “win now“. If they go deep into the playoffs, with these two players contributing, then the trade is a “win“ from Tampa Bay’s perspective, regardless of how Libertore progresses. I think it’s impossible to make a ruling on who “won the trade“ at this point. As a fan of the Tampa Bay rays, it is refreshing to see them trading prospects for major-league players. It is usually the other way around…
As a cards fan I’m sorry to see Jmart go. Dude is a hitter. Unfortunately blocked by Fowler and NL. Ray’s get a 6’5″ fan favorite DH.
so they traded pham and liberatore for renfroe, arozarena, martinez, and xavier edwards.
what was the point?
Not sure why they traded Pham. JMart will be huge in the AL. Pham for Genesis Cabrera is still open for debate.
Same reason the Cardinals traded Pham. His stat sheets look great but you don’t want his attitude around anyone. If Tatis Jr. is impressionable, Pham’s negativity and self infatuation could ruin his career.
$$$
they only saved ~3 mil and downgraded their outfield and farm in the process
Wrong. Renfroe is 3.3m arbitration, Pham is likely 8+. A 5m difference, and that’s just the first year of the deal. Next year Pham would’ve made way too much for the rays budget. And no the rays did not downgrade their farm, they improved it. They swapped top 100s, Edwards and liberatore, and picked up arozarena who is a much, much better prospect than cronenworth
pham (8 mil) – renfroe (3 mil) – martinez (2 mil) = 3 mil in savings. arozarena and cronenworth arent prospects. and liberatore is better than edwards. your genius FO got cute. good try,
Martinez money is unrelated to the Pham move. Renfroe is Pham’s replacement. Martinez is money they were gonna spend anyway. Liberatore and Edwards are both 50 FV, and yes arozarena and cronenworth are prospects. Nice try
I would definitely give the Rays the benefit of the doubt on this one. Maybe they know something about Liberatore that we don’t. They are very good at evaluating talent. I think in the end they will be fine with this trade. Clearly they don’t see the upside in Liberatore that everyone else is seeing… maybe he is a 5th starter at bets or middle relief… ? In that case they win going away…
Or maybe he is an ace or number 2 in which case Tampa loses going away
Or maybe arozarena is a 3-4 WAR of. You can play projection games all day, but the fact is that there is a premium on current WAR compared to future WAR and the rays paid what they think is appropriate. As a reference, just last season, the rays traded jake Bauers, a top prospect, AND $5 million for yandy diaz (not a top prospect). What did yandy Diaz do for the rays? Hit for a 116 wrc+ including a 160 wrc+ vs lhps (including manaea lol). What did Bauers do for Cleveland? He was a trashcan.
Don’t doubt the rays FO, they rarely lose trades, with German being the only recent memorable example
Pham seems to always rub organizations the wrong way…looking through Top 10 LH Starters on Top Prospects from 2015-2017 there appears to be a 70% chance Liberatore doesn’t pan out.
Randy was my favorite prospect. 🙁 Great value though.
Dang, if the Rays give up this guy for junk, I wonder how much they would give Theo for Bryant or Contreras?
The Rays will NEVER give up prospects and take on bigger contracts.
I can’t wait to see the manager speeches that Arozarena films in Tampa!
I wonder if STL will make an offer to JD.
no
To everyone saying the Rays got fleeced clearly you haven’t been paying attention. The Rays almost never lose a trade. The Rays have a wealth of pitching prospects and Liberatore was a few years away so they simply dealt from that depth to get a couple of major league ready guys and moves up in the draft as well which will fill the prospect slot left by Liberatore. I will just sit back and see how these guys perform and my guess is by year 2 this deal will look a lot better as most Rays trades tend to do with time.
Have the Rays ever met an outfielder or first basemen they didn’t like? Too much depth with average players doesn’t make your lineup great.
What about depth of above average players like the rays have? Is that how you have back to back 90 win seasons?
good riddance jose. too bad matt carpenter didn’t go with you
What…. JMart is a classy player that wore the birds on the bats well.
may have worn it well but couldn’t field in the uniform
……and that’s exactly why he’s suited for the AL.
No worse than Holliday. Big bat will be missed. Cards offense, what little they had, took a big hit with Jose’s trade.
Between the marlins dfa’n half their roster and the rays making this riciculous overpay for Martinez (whom the cardinals have been trying to get rid of for more than a year) i dont know which florida GM is worse right now. Less Liberatore is gonna miss 3 years due to TJ starting this year this makes zero sense
I imagine the Rays are banking on Arozarena
Or Martinez 160 wrc+ vs lhps
Both teams got their needs met. The Cards were able to move some of that blockade in the OF to free up room for Carlson and Thomas and it’s good to see JMart somewhere he can prosper like Pham did.
I think Tampa should have asked for Lane Thomas over Randy Arozarena but who am I to question the Tampa Bay front office? They have one of the best overall track records when it comes to trades so I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Arozarena does have excellent sprint speed and could become a Mookie Betts Lite for Tampa (doesn’t have his HR power). Tampa has loved Martinez for years so not surprised to see him as part of this package.
Lol Rays got robbed.
Win for both teams. Rays get 2 useful MLB ready players that they see upside in and upgrade to a spot in draft where they have a chance to get a better prospect than the one they traded which obviously they seen something they didn’t love about him or they would of kept him.
Cards get a prospect they like for 2 players that have little value for them since they are not in their current plans. Perfect trade. Trades don’t have to have winners and losers. Cards can’t lose no matter what. They have up nothing besides draft position.
That low level catching prospect isn’t anything to sneer at either. He’s carries a pretty big stick.
Rays schooled yet another team.
How so? The Cardinals gave up two players that they literally cannot use. The only real loss is the draft pick drop from first to second round. They got one of the best pitching prospects in baseball and a catching prospect who so far looks like he can hit the crap out of the ball. It’s great that the Rays can use Martinez and Arozarena, but the Cardinals gave up spare parts that don’t help their roster.
Maybe arozarena doesn’t help your roster because you didn’t play him. Just because the cardinals “couldn’t use” the players doesn’t mean they don’t have value. The rays couldn’t use liberatore either but he has value. Don’t pretend like the catcher is anything more than a throw in. The rays traded liberatore for arozarena, a 1st rd pick, and Martinez in that order. I don’t know what kind of good stuff the cards are smoking but arozarena looks prime for a breakout into the majors, the rays FO certainly seems to think so. Martinez is a beast DH for the rays vs lhps and both him and randy have good control which the rays covet. Classic rays trade mixing one eye on the present and one eye on the future, only this time they only gave up a guy who had a good season at a ball but who still has a long way to go in a system loaded with electric arms (baz, McKay, mclanahan, Honeywell, etc.)
I mean, cool, the Rays like the trade. Great. But how is getting a teams spare parts “schooling them”. The Cardinals took two flawed/inexperienced players on their 40 that they don’t have anywhere to play and turned it into a phenomenal pitching prospect and a catching prospect with high potential due to his early showing with the bat. It IS possible that both teams can benefit from a trade.
The catching prospect doesn’t have “high potential” he has only played in rookie ball. He is a lottery ticket. It’s called mismanagement of assets. Just because you have “spare” parts doesn’t mean you should just give them away, that’s how you end up with trades where the cardinals give away tommy Pham for free. But I guess that one was ok because the cardinals had other outfielders
I’m a big fan as Arozarena, but he won’t help the Cardinals’ roster because there are a large number of outfielders who are ahead of him, including prospects Lane Thomas and Dylan Carlson, who has been ranked ahead of Matt Liberatore on most national prospect lists. Both of those guys are getting priority pushes from the Cardinals, along with Tyler O’Neill. Yes, he was a spare part for the Cardinals, and a perfect trade piece for a top 50 lefty pitching prospect. Because to get talent, you have to give up talent, and as good as Arozarena is, he’s not near Carlson, Thomas, or Liberatore in terms of talent.
Jose Martinez is more of a risk than a beast–he’s incompetent in the field, so DH is the only place he can play. and last year, his hitting plunged to .269 with a .751 OPS. That’s how Lane Thomas became the primary pinch hitter for the Cardinals in August.
Wrong – Jose Martinez will be sorely missed. Yeah he dipped some late last season but the whole darn team lacked offense the whole season. Jose is a true joy to see on the field and in the dugout. He has a great bat and his defense is not nearly as bad as some would have you believe but if he gets more than one bat per game he will be a force. He was a key player in the Cards 4 game sweep of the Cubs late last season at Wrigley.
I will miss Jose and I think the Cards will too.
I’m not disagreeing that Martinez was a fun guy to have on the team and that his bat can be useful, but the NL doesn’t have the DH. He hasn’t really fit on the Cardinals roster for awhile; why not use that roster spot to get some of these young talented but inexperienced outfielders some seasoning? That’s the only way you know what you have moving forward
Seems after reading most of the blogs on this trade you can see that this was advantageous for both teams! Cards had a glut of very good RH hitting OFs and the Rays have a glut of Top tier LH pitching prospects. I hope it works out well for both teams, However, the Rays have less risk since both players are no longer prospects with success in the MLB and triple A minors.
You mean like the last time the Rays and Cards pulled off a trade, when we stole Pham? The Rays RARELY lose a trade, check their track record. The Rays are a contender to win the World Series and have a window of opportunity to do so, and at the same time have the #1 Farm System in baseball. I applaud them for trading from an area of strength (farm) to fortify their team now during this window. They had one glaring hole on their team – a strong RH bat. They dealt a kid who won’t reach the majors for 3 years to solve that hole with Martinez, who is a dream DH, and absolutely mashes lefties. His bat completes their team, as their lineup is match-up driven on a daily basis, and they now have perhaps the best offense as a whole that the team has ever had, to go along with one of the best run prevention teams in the league. And Arozarena looks like a breakout player waiting to happen: Hit .334 with 15 HR and 17 SB in AAA, then held his own in his brief callup last year. Emerging power, speed, average, and can play all 3 outfield positions. Smells like Kiermeyer’s eventual replacement to me. Oh, and we basically traded a second round pick for a first round pick on top of it all. Liberatore may be great, he may not. Rays are getting 1 player with certainty, another with breakout potential in the majors THIS year, and a big jump in the draft. The Cardinals are hoping an A ball pitcher comes through with his potential. The trade will probably work out for both teams in the long run.
Now let’s resign Ozuna, pick up nado, and dabs..2020 champs. #2020vision
first post reply…blah blah blah
If nothing, it is one of the more interesting trades. The MLB should definitely allow more trading of draft picks. It’s the easiest way to balance out trades. This trade doesn’t get done without the competitive draft picks.
And the draft becomes more interesting for fans. I mean, in the NFL, you can move up four slots in the 1st round, in exchange for your #3, but then we to swap each other’s 2021 2nd rounders, and I’ll throw in a #6 from 2022.
More people will tune into the MLB draft if they thought their would be some action.
Maybe but these guys don’t make an immediate impact. It’s hard for your average Joe to get excited about prospects they won’t see on a baseball field for 3+ years, if they ever make it.
The Rays RARELY lose a trade, check their track record. The Rays are a contender to win the World Series and have a window of opportunity to do so, and at the same time have the #1 Farm System in baseball. I applaud them for trading from an area of strength (farm) to fortify their team now during this window. They had one glaring hole on their team – a strong RH bat. They dealt a kid who won’t reach the majors for 3 years to solve that hole with Martinez, who is a dream DH, and absolutely mashes lefties. His bat completes their team, as their lineup is match-up driven on a daily basis, and they now have perhaps the best offense as a whole that the team has ever had, to go along with one of the best run prevention teams in the league. And Arozarena looks like a breakout player waiting to happen: Hit .334 with 15 HR and 17 SB in AAA, then held his own in his brief callup last year. Emerging power, speed, average, and can play all 3 outfield positions. Smells like Kiermeyer’s eventual replacement to me. Oh, and we basically traded a second round pick for a first round pick on top of it all. Liberatore may be great, he may not. Rays are getting 1 player with certainty, another with breakout potential in the majors THIS year, and a big jump in the draft. The Cardinals are hoping an A ball pitcher comes through with his potential. The trade will probably work out for both teams in the long run.
Proud of my Rays for making a win now move! We have a ton of pitching depth in the minors, and as much as I hate to see liberatore go, it makes since. We desperately needed a RH centerfield option to back up / platoon kevin Kiermaier and a solid RH DH / 1B type. People forget the rays have huge budget constraints so getting Jose Martinez at less than $3 mil a year is huge. Cardinals might have bested the Rays in this trade by a bit but it’s a huge win win for both in my opinion.
I don’t know how to initiate a new comment so I will just reply to this one. I don’t know Arozarena’s background very well as he had only limited play in MLB. Jose Martinez however is another story. You will learn to love this guy as he is the life of the dugout and he has an unbelievable eye for the ball when at bat. There is no way they can put a shift on him because he sprays it everywhere and he has power to put it out too. But, be forewarned, he will look like a guy with attention deficit disorder at times. He runs up and down the dugout when not in the game and he makes pals with every team member. I don’t think his defense is as bad as advertised and he was only starting to play 1B so he had a lot to learn there. The reason he was starting so many games was that bat and his eye for the ball. He looks like perpetual motion at the plate and he has the reach that can hit something far outside the plate. He had one down spell late last season when the whole team could not hit the side of a barn but he is responsible for several wins himself.
Rays will love him. Too bad you don’t have many fans in the stands.
I meant to add that Jose has a knee that been injured many times but his last injury put him out for almost a season in the PCL with KCs AAA team. It has been said that if he reinjures that knee his career is over . He did win the PCL batting championship the same season that KC won the World Series but they did not call him up for the series – no room.
Jose is gonna rake for tampa. Theyll use him to his strengths.
Just seems dumb for the cards. Idk. I just saw this news… somehow I missed it