The latest pitcher-relates news from around baseball…
- Left-hander Cole Hamels said earlier this offseason he’d be open to a return to Philadelphia, where he thrived at the beginning of his career. Hamels wound up accepting the division-rival Braves’ one-year, $18MM offer on Wednesday, but the Phillies were among his suitors before then. They put forth a one-year proposal worth roughly half what Hamels got from the Braves, per Todd Zolecki of MLB.com. With that in mind, it’s no surprise Hamels turned down a return to Philadelphia. Meanwhile, the starter-needy Phillies made a much bigger splash to improve their rotation Wednesday, as they agreed to sign ex-Met Zack Wheeler to a five-year, $118MM pact.
- The Twins were also among the most ardent teams in pursuit of Wheeler, according to La Velle E. Neal of the Star Tribune. They offered Wheeler a five-year, $100MM offer, but the Phillies upended them. Had Wheeler taken the Twins’ offer, it would have been the richest in franchise history. Now, even after Jake Odorizzi accepted a qualifying offer from the Twins, they’re still in clear need of starting help. Odorizzi and Jose Berrios are the only sure things for Minnesota’s 2020 rotation, meaning we probably haven’t seen the last of the team’s starting pursuits this winter. Indeed, the Twins seem to be aggressively going after free-agent left-hander Madison Bumgarner.
- The Angels and Orioles swung a headline-grabbing trade Wednesday, when Los Angeles acquired righty Dylan Bundy from Baltimore. Even after picking up Bundy, the Angels remain “in the market for pitching,” said general manager Billy Eppler (via Rhett Bollinger of MLB.com). As for the non-contending Orioles, in parting with Bundy, they took “a big step toward our stated goals to accumulate and develop as much young talent as possible as the club rebuilds its roster and gets our talent level back to the level needed for consistent playoff contention,” per GM Mike Elias (via Roch Kubatko of MASNSports.com).
- Korea Baseball Organization right-hander Josh Lindblom officially became a free agent Wednesday, the Yonhap News Agency relays. Lindblom was terrific as a member of the KBO’s Doosan Bears from 2018-19, as MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently explained. Before that, he was unremarkable in the majors from 2011-17 with several teams. However, Lindblom’s KBO performance could overshadow his MLB history as he seeks a big league contract this offseason.
If true, wow did the Phillies lowball Hamels. With an offer that low, they may have hurt their chances for any future reunion. I wouldn’t blame him for feeling like they tried to take advantage of his fondness for Philadelphia.
the current regime isnt emotionally connected so they probably dont care
They did not hurt anything. Its just business. In the future if he is a FA again and they offer enough money they could land him.
It’s bad business for a team that still needs to fill out its rotation.. I don’t get their mindset. How is Hamels worth so much less to them than to other teams. A more reasonable offer would still be a drop in the bucket for them.
The Phillies offered Hamels $9m? I can’t help but wonder if he thinks about that slap in the face everytime he takes the mound against them.
Hamels isn’t any front line pitcher any longer. He’s a 35yo back end guy that for some reason Atlanta gave 18m to for a single season. I can understand why Philly just offered 9m. About what figured Porcello will get for a single year, maybe less and he’s 4y younger as a back end guy, tho he’s coming off his worst year.
He’s not a back end guy. ERA+ of 120 and 117 the last two seasons.
Have you ever sat down and asked yourself why you talk garbage every day?
Exactly !!!! Can’t control themselves !
Era+ of 120 is also about a front line starter for philly
Hamels was as good as any NL pitcher prior to his injury. He came back not completely healed which explains the tail off. If Wheeler is so good why does he only have one shutout and one complete game? Not that impressive.
Number 3-4 pitcher on a middling team the past 6 years. $100m+ lol hmm.
With all the shenanigans about Wheeler’s spin rate and speed of his pitches, etc.; it comes down to the old bromide….
“He has great stuff, but….”
Wheeler is 29 years old and has been pitching professionally for 10 years. Has worked with multiple managers, pitching coaches, and catchers. His only consistency is that he’s inconsistent.
Teams often latch onto a guy like this with the idea that they can unlock his talent. But they don’t give them a 5-year, $118m contract based on what they think they can do.
The Phillies FO and owner continue to grasp at straws. They think MLB is a rotisserie league. Like the Padres, Cubs and some others, they pretty much throw money at players while they spin around in circles.
Not that impressed with Wheeler either. I’m thinking this one may come back to bite the Phillies. Never give out big multi year contracts based on potential. Never ever ever. It seems like it pretty much comes down to luck. When a team turns a guy around it’s usually because they brought the guy in to give him a chance on a low ball contract and he just happened to come through. I haven’t seen too many big contracts come through on potential alone.
What do you expect them to do then?
He’s been very good the last 2 seasons and already had a TJ surgery and it is rare for a pitcher to need more than one. He’s pretty much equal to Patrick Corbin and the Phillies got him on a better deal. Personally I think the total dollars were a bit high (should have been closer to $100 million) but it’s not a bad deal.
ERA+ of 102 is not very good. Just marginally better than average. That 3.94 ERA will move north of 4.00 at citizens bank park.
@hiflyer000
He is absolutely not equal to Patrick Corbin. Corbin was far better in almost every measurable way.
Hebtook the money…he is not an 18 mill pitcher for 1 year
I wonder how much the second highest bid was for Hamels. 18 mil, even just for one year seems like a lot.
15 million
You have to add more to the AAV if you’re only looking to sign a player for a single season. At least I would assume
I don’t think anyone had Cole Hamels pegged on a 1/18. if you asked me yesterday if it were more likely that Cole Hamels would receive a 2/22 MM or a 1/18. I would’ve without hesitation said the 2/22. Honestly if you would’ve said 2/20 or 1/18; the answer probably would’ve been the same.
The website you are reading had him at $30 million for 2 years to the Braves, so saying noone thought he would get this much is wrong, according to the website you are making the comment on…
Of course a one year deal will have a slightly higher AAV than a multi year deal due the decreased risk involved a short term commitment. Bumping the value from 15 a year for 2 years to 1 year at 18 is a small premium to pay. Hamels wanted a one year deal, he wasnt forced into it
The Braves moved quickly before the teams missing out on other names circled back. Twins, Rangers, and others are desperate to spend money and sign pitchers to some extent and basically every pitcher who has signed, signed for more than predicted.
So… This signing makes plenty of sense.
except hamels specifically wanted a one year deal with a contending team
It does seem like AA is overspending a bit on everyone so that he can lock down players early. It’s smart thinking. Now he just has to work on the outfield and/or 3B.
It’s a 1 year deAl. It’s a fine deal. I thought it was more likely Hamels would take a discount to join a contender rather than a premium though. All I was saying there.
Yea I would have given him more 1/$20m or maybe a million or two more. Actually I’d have given him two years at similar amount if that’s where the market was.
@bravesfanforever – which is probably the most successful way to do things, I think AA has it right.
IMO it’s better to *slightly* overpay for each piece, than to play it tight and miss out, being forced it a bigger overpay for a single guy, likely a lesser option, just because less pieces are on the board and competition heats up.
Feels like he starts closer to a best and highest rather than going through the motions of several rounds of competitive bidding.
Yeah it’s like buying raffle tickets – 1 for $2, 3 for $5
Just had to say, that was an awesome comment. Raffle tickets 😀
that’s not how it works in the FA Freeze era. one year is market value, more than one year is cheaper than that to provide security in future earnings.
18m on a one-year deal seems like a win for the Braves to me. He’s been remarkably consistent, hasn’t had a season with less than 3 bWAR in 10 years, and you have to think his presence alone will lift up the young pitchers around him.
Single season trade off.
If you’re advertising 2 for $20, you don’t sell 1 for $10.
Phillies are not a class act when it comes to former players! They rode him as long as they could and it took him three seasons to get over the abuse he absorbed while there! I hope he pitches against them 10 times this year and throws 10 no hitters! Phillies suck!
You mean they don’t let sentiment cloud their judgement? How classless.
Did they let sentiment cloud their judgment when they signed Arrieta? BTW, that signing was a real thing of beauty…
and how is that relevant.
I wonder how much Ryu is getting he has a 2.98 career ERA if it wasn’t for that start in 2016 the ERA would be lower
3yr60m is my guess.
Phillies are probably watching more long term with wheeler compared to now with Hammels
Phillies needed more than 1 starter and they needed longterm pitching. As much as I Iove Hamels, the Braves are a better fit right now. The Braves are a playoff team with some quality younger starters that Hamels could mentor. 18m for 1 year would have been too much for the Phillies to offer because Hamels wouldn’t put them over the hump. As for the Braves offering that, I think it works in their case, because I think they’re now good enough to win. Which isn’t to say they won’t make more moves.
I thought one year @ $12-$15 million would have gotten it done for the Phillies with Hamels. Guy made $20 million last year. Offering him less than half that amount was an insult. Just one more example of Klentak being in over his head.
His next successful FA signing will be his first. And, yes, I include Harper in that mix. $30+ million for .260 30+ HR and 100+ RBI is too much. Guys are doing that all over baseball for far less cheese.
Finally, way too much money and years for Wheeler. Aside from a strong second half in 2018, he’s been a B level pitcher. Add in his injury history; the fact that he’ll turn 30 in June and this is yet one more example of folly that can also be spelled: K-L-E-N-T-A-K!
Harper’s AAV is 25 mil, not 30+
Wheeler is coming off 2 solid years of production. Clearly the 3rd/4th best option behind Cole and Strasburg
And finally, the Phillies starting staff was awful last year. With no little development of starting pitching in the farm system aside from Spencer Howard, what do you expect him to do?? Just sit on his hands?
Go sign the Gio Gonzalez and Rick Porcello’s of the world?
I love how fans have a crystal ball and right way say the contract is a mistake and won’t pan out. How do we know? Let’s just all sit back and enjoy the ride. It may be bumpy but that’s life
Hamels signed his last contract when he was much younger. people forget how his 2019 season went. he was great before injury but looked shaky when coming back. im not sure he is even a known quantity anymore.
The Phillies now have five projected starters, all right-handed. Anybody see that as a problem?
Ohh boo hoo hoo. So what are your expert answers? Another armchair gm……
Im just amazed at how desperate teams are to pay so much for any pitcher, like now i can see the twins or rangers overpaying immensely for porecello just to say they signed a pitcher, then come September 2020 when his record is 6-11 or 7-14 they will be like, wow, we fcked up. So many of these teams are paying so much just to hopefully get a 1 game wild game spot
Record really doesn’t matter much, it’s a team stat. ERA, or even moreso, FIP is what your worth should be judged upon. The rest is really just a team stat saddled on an individual.
Guy can give up 1-2 runs per outing and end the year with a half dozen wins on a team with really poor offense and defense…
credit for Klentak for standing his ground. id imagine they were willing to go higher, but that braves deal so blew it out of the water that more negotiation was unnessicary. 18 million makes sense for the Braves, where at this point he could be that final piece that puts them over the top. Phillies are simply not that close right now.
I am not sure that Wheeler is worth $23 million per year. That seems expensive for a solid #3. I would just worry about him staying healthy for the full 5 years.
Right. My thoughts exactly. Hey I’m a huge Wheeler fan, I even played against him growing up. I want him to get paid. But as a braves fan…. 23 mil per year. Idk. Glad we kept out. I wasn’t event sold on the 20 mil per year projection
That signing feels too much like porcellos extension that just wrapped up. Then again, maybe if he has that one outlier season where things just go right, and puts up around 200IP of 4era ball in the other 4 pills will feel the value was worth it.
I still think the braves should go lock up their rotation with someone like Bum. I don’t want to go into opening day with our #5 being a prospect or possibly Newcomb. If Newcomb comes back to form, great. I’ll take it. But I just don’t see it happening. The other reason we need to lock up another Vet, and I’ll just say it, I don’t believe that Folty and/or Fried will return back to their potential. Fried taking a step back in his 2nd full year as a starter wouldn’t be shocking. Folty is just a wild card anyways. Is he an Ace, will he need to spend time in AAA again, should he be in the bullpen. I mean we just don’t know what to expect. I think another vet will be important. Even if it means getting Tehran on a cheaper deal
Teheran or Porcello… who feels better in that 5 hole on a 1 or 2 yr make good deal. I’d bet either are affordable and attainable in the role
I’ll take Tehran before porcello. He has a 1 off year where he was great. But it’s really not good in my opinion
Just dont believe for a second that Hamels was offered half from Phillies. Sounds like a great thing to leak to the media to make themselves look better
Enjoy your last season as the Angels GM Billy, because after you dumpster dive for the remaining rotation pieces, and neglect the horrible offense you’ve created around Trout, you’re going to be fired and the Angels and Arte will continue to put a mediocre team on the field…
lol dude, its early December. 2 pitchers have signed. Go smoke some weed or something, it’ll help
Disappointed that the Phillies did not reunite with Cole. They probably should have upped their offer to 2/30. I absolutely believe Cole will be worth that 18mil for Atlanta. If I had to predict his stat line, I would say 13-9, 3.95 ERA, 169 innings, 150 K’s. That’s right around what 18 mil should get you in my opinion. There’s a lot of negativity surrounding the Wheeler acquisition but I believe he will be an above average starter for at least 4 out of those 5 years. The Phillies need for Arrieta to bounceback and for VV & Pivetta to adjust well to the bullpen. They should seriously consider adding a lefty like Keuchel or Alex Wood to round out the rotation. If everything falls into place this could be a strong pitching staff.
They should sign 3 or 4 bounceback types like T. Walker, K. Gausman & Shelby Miller for depth. Same goes for the bullpen. Brad Bach, Greg Holland, Addison Reed, Luke Gregerson, Brandon Morrow and even Trevor Rosenthal, who’s only 30 years old, could be brought in to compete with the younger guys. No risk whatsoever in signing the names I mentioned and maybe they strike gold with one or two of them. If they can bring in a 3B or a CF I think they have a good shot of winning the division or at least a wild card berth. If they fail to get Rendon or Donaldson maybe Frazier would be a good stop gap to Bohm. If they settle for Frazier they absolutely have to upgrade in CF where Marte, Kiermaier & Buxton are all reportedly available at the right price.
Twinkies pursuit of Wheeler was for PR purposes only. They realistically had ZERO chance of landing him in free agency with the other “Big Gun” teams out there as competition.
Should have gone all in on Bumgarner in the first place; selling him on:
the many outdoor activities that Minnesota has to offer
the opportunity to work with Wes Johnson
the team offense
the teams relief pitching
the opportunity to change leagues and extend his career
On the surface the Wheeler deal looks like an overpay, but if you look at Wheeler’s second half numbers last season, they were the best in the NL. Better than his teammate, deGrom. That’s what the Phillies are gambling on. Will Wheeler turn a corner and maintain that ace-type pitching for a full season? That’s being extremely optimistic, but it isn’t as ridiculous as some people think. Worst case scenario, Wheeler is a solid #2 on a team that didn’t have that previously. So yes. It’s an overpay, but I love the gamble.
A ten million dollar offer to Hamels is laughable.
Lost all respect for Hamels as a Phillie fan. Phillies offer was most likely around 9 mil/1 yr. You mean to tell me you can survive on 9 mil to go back to the organization that did so much for you? Instead you go to division rival. Scum bag
Why would you take a $9 million pay cut when there is a much better offer on the table? Hamels had every right to make that decision. You can be disappointed in the Phillies front office for not upping their offer, but calling Hamels a scum bag is unreasonable.
you’re a fool.
Looks like Hamels showed the Phillies the same level of respect and loyalty they showed him with a low ball offer.