The Nationals haven't finished above .500 since moving to Washington in 2005, but there's reason to expect significant improvement from the 2012 club. GM Mike Rizzo continued bolstering his pitching staff today, agreeing to terms with free agent right-hander Edwin Jackson.
The team announced the one-year deal, and Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, who first reported the news (all Twitter links), says the agreement is valued at $11MM. The Scott Boras client will earn $11MM plus incentives this year, Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post reports.
The Nationals' projected starting rotation includes Jackson (pictured), Gio Gonzalez, Stephen Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann and Chien-Ming Wang. Every one of the starters except Wang had an average fastball velocity of at least 92 mph in 2011. John Lannan and Ross Detwiler would provide rotation depth, though Lannan is now on the trade block.
Jackson, 28, posted a 3.79 ERA with 6.7 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 with a 43.8% ground ball rate in 199 2/3 innings for the White Sox and Cardinals this past season. The hard-throwing right-hander has averaged 208 innings per season with a 3.96 ERA since 2009, but has a career ERA of 4.46 with 6.7 K/9 and 3.7 BB/9 since he debuted with the Dodgers on his 20th birthday in 2003. Jackson ranked sixth on MLBTR’s list of top free agents entering the offseason.
Jackson profiled as a Type B free agent after the season and the Cardinals offered him arbitration. They'll obtain a compensatory draft pick in the supplementary first round of this year's amateur draft, but it won't come from the Nationals.
As MLBTR's Agency Database shows, the Boras Corporation has quite a presence on the Nationals' roster. Danny Espinosa, Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, Stephen Strasburg and Jayson Werth are all Boras clients.
Last week the Nationals added Brad Lidge to a bullpen that includes Drew Storen, Tyler Clippard and Henry Rodriguez. Washington's offense finished 24th in MLB in runs scored last year, but improvements to the pitching staff could make them a threat in the NL East this coming season.
Photo courtesy Icon SMI. Jim Duquette of MLB Network Radio first tweeted the value of the deal.
Wow. Didn’t see this coming. I thought he would go to the Cardinals or Red Sox for sure.
Cardinals had no place to put him, so I doubt they made a real offer.
Last I heard, Boston’s offer was around 1yr/$6-8 million, which would have been a huge bargain. I suspect he got a bit more than that from Washington.
of course cuz how do u give up the sox 4 the nats if its the same amount or less
As a Red Sox fan, not everyone wants to play in Boston. The Nats are young, and not everyone wants to deal with the AL East media.
Fenway is also a hitter’s park, and the AL East has a couple of beastly lineups. For a pitcher on a one year deal hoping to build value for the following year, Boston doesn’t necessarily make sense.
Or the AL East lineups
as we saw last year with Lee taking a smaller deal then what the yankees offered. not everyone wants to play for the high market teams. maybe its the pressure? maybe its not. and as far as pitchers go, maybe they wanna pitch in a spot other then 4th or 5th in the rotation.
cliff lee went to philly…
I called this back after the tigers signed fielder, and since the nats were tryin hard to get him i i figured if they didnt land fielder they would go after jackson hard.
wow that’s great, tell me more
Actually what you said was even greater!!! Tell ME more!
What in his comment deserved to be mocked?
The “mystery” team strikes again.
No doubt they overpaid. Edwin Jackson isn’t worth 15+ million a year. I would have liked him to sign with the Tigers, but not for what he was asking, and most likely got.
whoah. Why don’t you wait and see what the deal is?
1 year 8-12 range per Heyman. Rosenthal says around 10
actually getting jackson at 1 yr 8-12 million is kind of a steal concidering hes an innings eater, younger then oswalt, less likely to be on the DL then Oswalt. hes perfect for the nationals rotation. I can see them this year being a threat in the NL East. and if they do for sure add the second Wild Card i wouldnt doubt they land in the playoffs this year, especially if Harper ends up in the line up.
Yeah, it is, for the right team. I don’t feel like this is worth it for the Nationals. They’re not going to place in the east, and it’s a long shot they’ll take a Wild Card spot. I feel like everythign would have to fall into place for them in order for this deal to really pay off. Jayson Werth would have to return to form, Morse will have to have a repeat performance, and the pitching will have to be flawless. If this was a longer deal, it might have been worth it.
Long-term, Strasburg will be counted on to pitch more than the 160 innings he’ll be allowed in 2012. A one-year contract for Jackson is perfect for the Nats. And surely no fan cares how much these players make, especially on 1 year deals that don’t compromise future flexibility. As for Werth and Morse, good performances out of both of them is hardly an unrealistic stretch. Team still needs an OBP good fielding CF’er but a second wild card would be a fitting bonus incentive and realistic goal for the franchise screwed by MLB from its inception.
I’m really not trying to be a pessimist, I’m simply being a realist. Several pieces would have to fall into place for this deal to be worth it for the Nats. I don’t think that’s a poor assessment of this deal.
I don’t think that’s the point, I think the point is that Strass is on a 160 limit, Zimmerman just had his 160 inning year, Wang hasn’t pitched a complete season since I think 2007 or 2008, and the objective is simply to get a “bridge” pitcher and depth to help them perform at a high level when Strass is gone and have an extra arm because of the injury history of 3 or 4 of the 6 other starters they expect to bring with them beyond spring training.
That’s the whole point, if they could resign him that would be great, but more likely, they view him as a combo of insurance, depth for injuries, and a nice #2 or #3 option depending upon how things fall with Zim, Strass and Gio during the season when any of them get hurt, or Strass has to rest starting in September.
This isn’t as much about paying for long term contention as it is signing a quality starter to help address depth and injury issues and if it actually pays off and helps with the dream of winning 90+ instead of 85+ and actually contending, then so be it.
Really, considering these guys are the richest guys in baseball 10 mill in totality invested for this issue is nothing, and could actually pay off, big time. I don’t see how someone can look at this move and think it’s a bad idea.
I know exactly what role EJ will play on this team…and I understand the constraints on the rotation.
All I am saying is that I don’t necessarily think this move will push the Nats into indefinite contention this year. This deal would have been smarter or a team like the Red Sox, where it really would have fill a hole in a team that, unless something goes horribly wrong (as it did this year), will be in the playoffs.
But who knows, the Nats are really going to be a fun team to watch
8 is about his value, 12 would def be an overpay.
If it was a 4 year deal, then I could agree, but on a 1 year deal, 12MM isn’t really an overpay for a guy who throws pretty hard and can consistently go 200IP. If he’s able to put up his typical 3.5 – 4 WAR season, the Nationals got a solid bargain, even if it’s at 12MM.
If it was a 4 year deal, then I could agree, but on a 1 year deal, 12MM isn’t really an overpay for a guy who throws pretty hard and can consistently go 200IP. If he’s able to put up his typical 3.5 – 4 WAR season, the Nationals got a solid bargain, even if it’s at 12MM.
bye bye Lannan
Lannan+ to the Twins for Span?
HA ! blumkins all around
Oh well… the Red Sox will just have to be satisfied with the immortal Padilla
Oswalt is still available as of now, but I doubt he goes there unless they step in big.
Too bad Padilla has an arrest warrant out for him in Nicaragua for failing to pay child support for his 10th kid. Looks like we’re down to Carlos Silva and Aaron Cook…
Really?
Really?
I’m wondering if the Red Sox now try and swing a deal for Gavin Floyd.
Floyd is okay but not worth what the White Sox would want for him. I’d take him for the guy we got for Scutaro maybe 😛
Floyd is okay but not worth what the White Sox would want for him. I’d take him for the guy we got for Scutaro maybe 😛
3 yrs $30M, with an option added on to tha maybe?
I wonder if this mean that they already have the framework for a Lannan trade in place.
That’s a fair assumption. It’s probably correct.
I dunno, Lannan lost his arbitration case so he’s still affordable and pretty solid. (Of course, that could be spun into positive trade value if they’re confident in Wang)
Who needs Prince Fielder? Probably another Nats overpay; awaiting contract details.
Yeah, an overpay for 1 year will really hamstring us.
The Nationals are going to be a fun, interesting team next year. Too bad I’m a Mets fan.
my sentiments exactly.
but you will get 2 see a lot of ants games since they r both in the nl east
With ya on that one buddy
Hope it was a good contract. The Marlins need to take notes, this is how you build a winner. They will be looking up to the Nats all season long.
Wouldn’t go that far.. They might be a .500 team, but still have a ways to go to even be as good as the ’69 Senators for the Washington record of 86 wins.
Both the Fish and braves are better all the way around.
um, no.
The Fish are going to be a circus this year. I got a dollar saying they finish under 78 wins.
Nat’s better get Teddy Ballgame back if they are gonna’ have a record year.. He was the one who had half the ’69 Senators hitting at career record levels and the 2012 nationals are a mish mash or young kids and walking wounded.
The circus? Yeah.. Guillen is a dolt.. U hit that one right on the head.. Wish Trader Jack was up to another year. The team respected him and he was old school.. Knew how to run a team the way the game is supposed to be played and hopefully the team will show Guillen how to play, rather than Guillen with his useless ways. I think the Nat fans are going to be in for a rude awakening tho if are having hopes of 2nd place and that’s not meant as a dice.. Just a lot of things would have to fall perfect for them and horribly bad for just one of the Fish/Atlanta for just 3rd and I don’t see it happening.
how is the marlins better? yeah they signed buehrle but J.J. cant even get to 200 innings. he is always hurt. hes a good pitcher, but he has health issues every year. same goes with Reyes, health issues every year. hes only as good as his legs, with out his legs he isnt worth anything. not saying their not gonna be a decent team, but if i had to pick between the nats and the marlins, id take the nats. especially if Harper is in the opening day line-up like they want. nats will win 85 games this year.
“nats will win 85 games this year”
Wouldn’t bother me any if they did.. I just don’t see it is the thing. See.. I always liked the Senators ever since Ted Williams managed them anyway..
You left Sanchez out of the Fish rotation and on and off Nolasco and the heart of the Fish batting order that is pretty potent by any NL standards… Stanton, Sanchez and Lomo with Reyes and Bonifacio setting the table. 1-5 they are pretty good and Coghlan.. Wild card with will he go back to his rookie year performance?
Then… There is Hanley Ramirez.. Nobody expects him to be awful again.. Add him to the heart of that order and it is almost Phillie like.
JJ (yes, injuries) Sanchez, Buehrle (yep.. innings eater) and Nolasco (wild card) are a decent 4 and Zambrano, if he does not bash Guillen in the head and take each other out… Are a not bad 1-5…
I don’t think Harper should be expected to be a major contributor in 2012. As for the Marlins, Buerhle was a solid pitcher in the AL and should be as good if not better in the NL. True about JJ but he was good for about 200 IP in 2009 and 2010. Wouldn’t be shocked to see him go 180-200 this year. JJ/Sanchez/Nolasco/Buerhle.
As for Reyes….give me a break. Even w/ his injury issues he was still worth a 6 WAR
Braves starters vs Nats starters in 2011: ERA/FIP
3.73/3.65 vs 3.80/3.93
Now..Add unproven rookies – Derek Low
vs
Add Gio, EJackson and Strasburg minus Liv Hernadez
Offensively, the Nats and Braves were very similar:
.691 to .695 OPS, .309 to .308 OBP and .305 to .304 wOBA. Braves hit a few more HRS…Nats stole a few more bases.
Defensively, they were both pretty bad but the Braves were worse (-10.3 vs -23.2)
I wouldn’t say that the Nats are as far behind as you might think.
Don’t discount a modest bump in the Braves offensive output this year. They went from consistently top 5 in the NL to near last in the MLB in OBP last year under Larry Parrish, who was fired at the end of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised at a .900+ OPS Heyward this year. Said chipper a few days ago: “When the ball jumped off his bat [in 2010], there was a sound unlike
you had ever heard,” Jones said. “I didn’t see that at all last year.
It’s due to some of things he was doing mechanically. The ball is
jumping off his bat now close to the way it was in 2010.”
I bet they need to add $$ to get anything for Lannan. And I really like the guy.
Edwin Jackson still has nightmares about Joe Blanton.
1 down, 1 to go.
#EJaxtoBucs
Better in Washington than in Boston.. This sign was a relief to me at least…
Red Sox lose Edwin Jackson to the Nationals… man have things changed in MLB.
Contract details are out, you are absolutely right!
Don’t worry. As soon as the next free agent signs with the Red Sox or the Yankees fans of other teams will develop convenient memory loss about all the other free agents signing with other teams, including the teams they root for.
Yup, looks like Boston has packed it in this year. No excuse for them to not try and fix their rotation after last year’s debacle. I guess they really have faith in Bard and Aceves. We’ll see how they do with much less fanfare than they had last season, it might actually be good for them.
It’s going to be alright, they have Padilla
I hope the “it” doesn’t refer to Texiera’s head, because that’d be a false statement. 😛
Grats on JAckson finding a job! Hopefuly he can be a nice addition to what already is a promising rotation!
Heyman also notes that he’s basing all of this off of a sighting at the airport… typical
only b/c he cant say ‘boras told me’
Good move. The starting rotation gets deeper.
Red Sox are gonna really push for Oswalt. I have a feeling Roy’s gonna get more than expected from the Sox and land 12 mil.
I don’t think the Red Sox are serious in their pursuit of Oswalt, nor did they appear serious in pursuing Jackson.
Their last rumored offer to Jackson that I recall was only $6-8 million. No chance they offer Oswalt significantly more than that, even if he is the only talented pitcher available.
I think Cherrington is bluffing for the fan’s sake (even though the fans are too smart to fall for it), and intends to go into the season with the current rotation.
They dumped Marco for salary. If he doesn’t get a pitcher it won’t look good for the Sox.
Man, Nats have a legit rotation. Jackson is no ace, (more like a 3 or 4) but he eats innings. Hard to hate on this pickup. I was kinda hoping the Cards would sign him..
To do what? Pinch hit?
Rotation is already full, and he wanted a multi-year deal.
Unless the Cardinals were going to trade Shelby Miller (why?!), or delay Carlos Martinez an extra year, there really wasn’t a place to put Jackson.
Maybe you didn’t hear, but they were looking to deal McClellan to free up cap space. Also, they could have moved Westbrook to the bullpen, or have him waive his no-trade clause. They were chasing Oswalt, so that full rotation obviously isn’t satisfying enough for them..
He is a Solid 2-3 if matches last years 3.55 FIP a solid 3 if he matches his three year average of 3.7WAR
Heyman reports its a 1 year for 8-12 mil pending phys.
1 year 8-12 million according to Heyman
Heyman says its 1 yr in the 8-12 mill range… Seems like a Really good deal to me when he originally wanted 15-17 mill a year.
Awesome sign IMO!! Lannan vs jackson to i take Jackson everytime. Basically we get a better pitcher (at least should be) and then we get a propect maybe if we trade lannan. Hope its not just a one year deal. 2 year 14-20deal mil a little overpay is fine.
I personally think Jackson is an undervalued pitcher. I like the signing for the Nats.
You only watched him pitch the no-hitter, right?
Well even then he had eight walks or something and 140 pitches , wasn’t that impressive (for a no-hitter). Soooo thats not a good point of reference. He has had many games when he pitched better than he did in his no-no. he just wasn’t as lucky.
.342 OBP allowed in 2011…looks like the Braves answer to getting on base lies in other team’s downgrading. I’m fine with that.
.342 OBP allowed in 2011…looks like the Braves answer to getting on base lies in other team’s downgrading. I’m fine with that.
Well even then he had eight walks or something and 140 pitches , wasn’t that impressive (for a no-hitter). Soooo thats not a good point of reference. He has had many games when he pitched better than he did in his no-no. he just wasn’t as lucky.
I hope the red sox don’t try to aquire lannan….
I hope they do
Solid rotation. Nats are lookin pretty good
Well there goes my optimism. Maybe the Sox can still get Oswalt.
I never knew Jackson was some type of ace.I can’t wait to see my Mets hit homeruns off of him.Lannan is a better pitcher who gets no respect from Nats fans because he is not a flashy pitcher
What am I missing here, Lannan seems like an comparable to Jackson but less expensive. Maybe they view Jackson or Lanna as their fourth or fifth guy (which is crazy to pay 8 mil to a 4/5 guy but…) and Lannan as their trade for that CF they have been talking about all year. It would have to be something like that to make sense since they are going to pay 3 mil more for a guy who isn’t much (or any or less) of an upgrade and is right handed like most of their othter startes???
Jackson has the much better WAR over the past 3 years and his FIP & xFIP are all better. Read the article on fangraphs by Dave Cameron. Spells it out nicely.
Oh boy not the WAR crap again.Have you seen the guy pitch or are you a stat freak.Lannan is a better pitcher and thats the bottom line
LOL. I’m a Nats fan. I’ve seen more of Lannan than you ever will. Check his stats against the NL East. Bad.
Please don’t tell me it’s all about stats. I’ve seen him more than you ever will.
Complaining about “the WAR crap” on MLBTR is like complaining about “that organic crap” at Whole Foods.
He’s a better pitcher because your eyes tell you he is or do you have something else to back it up? Jackson walks fewer hitters, strikes more of them out, and he’s more reliable in terms of being able to count on 200+ innings.
Other than that, Lannan is superior.
Lannan has had success in the NL East – I’m a Braves fan and am glad he’s on his way out of the division – and Jackson hasn’t had much success in the NL, let alone the NL East that keeps getting better.
Jackson hasn’t hardly pitched in the NL, he had 21 starts for Arizona in 2010 and another 12 starts with the Cardinals, his time with the D’backs wasn’t very good, but he pitched well with the Cardinals and there isn’t any indication that switching to the NL should be tough on him…
Ejax is a great value for a team that has an ace! why is oswalt still a FA? I have to agree with the opinion that there must be something concerning in his back. If I am the Red Sox and trying to stay in a salary cap I feel better about the team with out him then moving salary to aquire him.
The NL East is going to be a nasty division next season.
Not because of Jax. ATL likes this signing and subsequently seeing Lannan less in 2012. Bring on a RHP.
they still have 2 lefties in the rotation in detwiller and gio.
Good job Red Sox.
Wait a minute, the Nationals made a deal with Boras that might work in THEIR favor?
I’m impressed. They actually might be the NL East favorites come 2013 since they are now making smarter moves.
I love this signing. Jackson is an All-Star and he’s pitched a no-hitter.
Hey, I pitched one too!
– Bud Smith
Read the Fangraphs article comparing the two. Jackson is the superior pitcher and the numbers back it up.
Jackson with be the Nats 4th starter behind Strasburg, Gio, & Zimmermann
The FanGraphs piece:
fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/nationals-trying-to-…
Based on what? Okay lets throw stats out, Jackson threw a no hitter. Boom. Fireworks. Dancing Panda.
Oswalt is a significant improvement over Westbrook. Jackson hasn’t shown that yet. He has shown flashes of brilliance, and loads of inconsistency.
If healthy, Oswalt is a #3, maybe even a #2, in most rotations. Jackson is a #4. Of the two, Oswalt is likely cheaper, and has higher upside on a one year deal.
Why, then, would the Cardinals want Jackson?
Trust me, Jackson is an upgrade over Westbrook. Hell, almost anyone is. Jackson may be inconsistent, but he has no-hit stuff when he puts it together. And I dunno how much cheaper Oswalt is, he wants $10 million for one year, and Jackson just signed in between $8 to $12 million..
You really think Jackson is twice as good as Lannan, who had comparable numbers? That’s a big risk that you’re getting a traveled, albeit young pitcher with about as much upside as inconsistencies, who has never had much success in the NL in extended periods of time.
This looks like WSH really didn’t have any better way of spending its money than giving it to Jackson. Whoever gets Lannan will benefit from him.
8 walks during his no hitter. That’s really putting it together.
My eyes and the stats tell me Jackson is the better pitcher. Lannan can’t make it through a lineup 3 times and is the king of pitching 5.1 innings. I’m a Nats fan and trust me I’ve watched more of Lannan than you.
Is Jackson the same guy who has pitched for around 6 teams in his career.Jackson is just not that good and you will learn the hard way.I have always said you Nats fans didnt really ever have love for Lannan.As a Mets fan i could say i never wanted to face him and the Braves fans would say the same as well.Jackson is a very hittable pitcher who will never reach his full potential
Wayne Grextky was also on around 6 teams.
Just because he was traded doesnt mean he is a bad pitcher.
Are you serious? Lannan is much more hittable. I like Lannan. He’s a great guy but he walks way too many guys, doesn’t strike anyone out and relies on his defense way too much. Look at his FIP. His defense has consistently bailed him out. Jackson has way more talent but is inconsistent.
And you might want to look at his career stats against the NL East. Not good so I’m not sure you’ve seen much of Lannan. I’ve seen it and it’s not great.
I don’t know why you keep referring to us as ‘you nats fans’ if its supposed to mean anything, but i can tell you that he is right. lannan is the master at 5.1 inning games. dont get me wrong, he’s decent, but ejax is better for sure
Dan Haren has been on four teams, but I’d struggle to name 7 or 8 better pitchers in the game today.
actually i know alot of brave fans who have said they dont mind facing lannan because lannan is not that great of a pitcher. Next reason please? maybe your just jealous that the Nationals are getting better as the mets are sitting there making the A’s look like a far much better team every day.
It’s not like Jackson’s being traded for scrubs; he’s been traded for other good players almost every time.
Mets Fan LOL!
pass
And yet the people who use WAR also tend to be the people who watch more games and actually evaluate a pitcher when watching him rather then just saying “gave up 1 run, hes awesome”/”gave up 5 runs this guy sucks”.
Yep. But hey what do all those loser GM’s who use the stats all the time know? LOL.
Yeah was your GM the one who gave Werth that huge contract.Nice signing by Rizzo
Rizzo is the guy who has taken them from 59 wins to 80 in 2 seasons. I’m not a big fan of the Werth signing but Rizzo has done a pretty good job.
Nats were ranked #30 in farm systems 5 years ago. They were #1 before the Gio trade. I think Rizzo has done fine.
With all the top picks yopu had of coarse your farm system should have been at the top.The great thing is with the new rules the days of your Nats drafting gus like Cole and Purke and giving them top 10 money are over.Nothing hard about gettting th first pick in the draft and drafting no brainers like Harper and Strasburg.Has Rizzo done some good things sure he has but his free agent signings have been pretty bad and Jackson will add to that.A all righty rotation is something i do not like
Your grammar is worse than both of the pitchers.
1. Gio Gonzales is a lefty who will be in the #2 spot. Detwiler is a left and has a shot at the #5 spot.
2. Rizzo is the guy who drafted Espinosa, Peacock, Milone, Norris, Solis, and plenty of other good young players. It’s hardly just going over slot. Sure going over slot helps but he’s had plenty of good picks.
3. Capps for Ramos. Morse for Langerhans.
Every GM makes some bad moves. Rizzo has made far more good than bad. You busted on the guy just to try and score points. His resume is very good as scouting director and since he took over at GM.
Look i think Rizzo has done a good job and i do like the Gonzalez trade but i dont see a big difference from Lannan to Jackson.I am not saying Jackson sucks and he will give you innings but i do think Lanan doesnt get respect.Your Nats have a good team and will make noise so i am not going to hate on your team.You have a great future with the young pitching staff you have and some of the everyday players you have.Besides the Werth and LaRouche signing Rizzo has done a great job
And by the way, Rizzo is as old school as it gets when it comes to scouting. He is hardly a “stat guy”. He has a couple of guys in his front office who do that but he is old school and has always been considered one of the best scouts out there.
I see nothing wrong with the way he is doing things. im a yankees fan, my dad is a nats fan and was even a sents fan when they were there years ago. I like how the nats are building their team. I can see them winning 85 this year pushing 90 games. and being a contender for years to come
ummm Gio and Detwiller are lefties. Detwiller is set to compete with wang for the 5th spot in the rotation and should not be a problem given Wangs injury history since he got hurt in houston while with the yankees. so two lefties in the rotation does not make it a right heavy rotation. i still sence alittle jealousy by a mets fan. look the mets had their chance at glory in 2000 and they got beat. the mets are a team with an all star on their team who pretty much dont want to be there. (david wright is who im talking about) maybe the mets should just clean house, start from scratch. already the worst team in baseball
Strasburg wasn’t in that farm system listing, nor was Jordan Zimmermann.
They both weren’t prospects when that list was compiled, I bet.
math is hard
I know from watching pitchers whch i know a lot mor about it tan you WAR fans on this that Jackson is not better than Lannan.You will see when Jackson gets hit hard again this year.He is the Reggie Sanders of pitchers.Ask the DBacks fans of what they think about AJax
Reggie Sanders? As in this Reggie Sanders? fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1129&posit…
You know that he was a pretty good player right? He was solid all around the outfield and put up some monster offensive seasons. The only thing that seems similar about them is the color of their skin.
while i have them on the phone i’ll ask them what they think about john lannan, since they have a carbon copy of the guy in joe saunders. you know joe saunders right? the guy they non-tendered this year and eventually took back after no one else wanted him?
it’s weird that lannan lost his arbitration case too, don’t you think? he should have had you testify for him. “this guy on the internet who thinks long division is a government conspiracy says he never wanted me to pitch against his team!”
well throw out the numbers then, my good man! that settles it
Reggie Sanders? You mean the Reggie Sanders that last played for the Royals in 07? I won’t get too stat heavy on you, so lets just go with slash lines on about five or so of his seasons. I would simply put a link to all his numbers, but I don’t think that is allowed.
95- .306/.397/.579
99′- .285/.376/.527
01- .263/.337/.549
03- .285/.345/.567
05- .271/.340/.546
Now clearly this is cherry picking, but man these are some productive seasons! He was a pretty darn good fielder and was considered one of the nicer guys in the game. The only things that I see that make him seem similar to Jackson is the color of his skin and that they both played on a lot of teams. This doesn’t change the fact that they are both good players.
Those stats…they seem….ODD! ZIIIIIING!
Nationals will lead the league in something this year: walks issued
Looking forward to watching the Nations next year, they have really built a decent team
I got tickets on Saturday to see them when they’re in Boston, and now I’m extra excited about it!
pleasebestrasburg pleasebestrasburg pleasebestrasburg
“tonight’s starter for the nationals, tim wakefield”
You kidding? That’d rock! Standing ovations all around 😀
Of course, the nationals have about 7 better SP options…
Did the Nationals raise their ticket prices a lot? Maybe I will go watch the Red Sox in DC since I live in between Boston and DC.
Sox aren’t playing in Washington this year, since interleague play continues to be poorly-structured.
Oh thanks, I have to check the schedule.
Another good move for the Nationals , who are making more progress in 5 years than the Orioles have in 14 + 😉
I am surprised by this signing. I thought Nationals were planning to deal Lannan and move Detwiler to the rotation. Now RD has to be traded or moved to the bullpen. I don’t see how him, Gorzalenny, and Burnett all fit into the bullpen.
Yeah! Who are we to look at statistics and math to prove who is the better baseball player. I use my eyes, not science. You losers probably think we evolved from monkeys too!
Also doesnt this comment violate the new comment policy, I mean he insulted people who use stats….
You do know that the Great Edwin Jackson isn’t a winning pitcher over his career either?
And this is a guy that’s had some serious offense backing him up in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis!
Uhh what? Detroit’s offense in ’09 was ranked 15th overall in runs, and the White Sox last year came in at #18. So even if him being a “winning pitcher” or not was a valid argument, he has had league average-below league average offenses backing him up.
I am a math major and a baseball fan and in no way is John Lannan a better pitcher than Edwin Jackson.
The Marlins are probably just steaming down there in Miami right now.
Of course we are. It’s 85 degrees in February.
You play for the Marlins?
You don’t know about Serdar? He’s supposed to have a better bat than Harper and can play every position, including pitcher….
i’m not a big ejax fan. that being said, the nationals look good on paper right now. it will be a fun season. this maybe the second toughest division in baseball.
Now it’s a 3 team race in the East, for the wild card at least.
Let’s hope the Braves, Nats and Fish can stay healthy and this will be a fun year out East.
Why are you awarding the division to the Phillies already? Howard is going to miss time and their offense is not great at all. They also lost Oswalt too. Now they only have 3 aces haha but still I dont think they will run away with the division. Their offensive core is getting up their in age like Polanco and Chase. I think it will be a fun division to watch this year, the only team that wont compete there is the Mets.
It was intended to be more of an anti Mets post than a pro Phili post.
So did Bud Smith!
Great Signing!
Ugh. Great value for the Nats, but it’s killing me to watch all the Marlins and Nationals trying hard to improve and the Phillies standing pat up top while the Braves do nothing. I know there isn’t much the Braves could have realistically done this off-season and I’m glad they didn’t do anything stupid just for the sake of doing something, but that doesn’t make it much easier to watch.
I know, stats are useless
Stats are not useless but sometimes are very overrated.Jackson is a solid picher so i am not saying he is a stiff.He is a better signing than Oswalt so i cant hate that
wait a minute you just contradicted your self. first you say lannon is better then E-Jax but Ejax is better then oswalt? so your saying Lannon was better then oswalt too? Oswalt had better numbers then both of them and Ejax had better numbers then Lannan but yet Lannan is better then Ejax while Ejax is better signing then Oswalt? did i miss something?
“Stats are overrated, so the exact opposite of what they say must be true.”
“Stats are overrated, so the exact opposite of what they say must be true.”
wait a minute you just contradicted your self. first you say lannon is better then E-Jax but Ejax is better then oswalt? so your saying Lannon was better then oswalt too? Oswalt had better numbers then both of them and Ejax had better numbers then Lannan but yet Lannan is better then Ejax while Ejax is better signing then Oswalt? did i miss something?
Now that Ejax and Kuroda signed for the same amount of money.. Which team got the better deal?
Nats Rotation:
1 – Strasburg
2 – Gio
3 – Jackson
4 – Zimmerman
5 – Wang/Detwiller/ or lannan
Can see Lannan being traded for an OF, maybe to Tampa with another prospect for Upton? they were trying last summer to get him, and alot of talk he may end up there anyway next offseason so why not tampa trade him and get something for him from the nationals? then when Harper comes up move morse back to 1B.
line up could look like this
1) Upton
2) espinosa
3) Zimmerman
4) Werth
5) Harper
6) Morse
7) Desmond
8) Ramos
9) pitcher
1-8 could be pretty lethal, Espinosa showed promise as a rookie last year and so did Ramos, Morse broke out, and Zimmerman is always a good hitter, was just on the DL last year. if werth can hit better like he did in philly and Harper hit like he should could be a really good team that could turn the NL East into the AL East with 3 or 4 teams who can contend.
I could not see Lannan being traded to Tampa, the Orioles I could see in a big package for Jones.
that would be a good option too. forgot about baltimore and Jones
TB already has a crowded rotation. PIT/BAL/maybe KC/NYM (not knowing Mets pitching needs). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a NL East opponent make a grab at him, knowing how good he is in the division.
“There is no clearly established formula for WAR. Sites that provide the statistic, such as Baseball Prospectus, Fangraphs, and Baseball Reference, all calculate it differently” I found that quote regarding WAR on Wikipedia.
Without a clear formula to calculate WAR, how can anyone use this statistic to justify or detract anyone’s playing ability. Just saying.
Not really. You just need to understand how they’re different. Fangraphs’ WAR incorporates fielding-independent pitching statistics into its WAR formula, removing luck, ballpark and fielding to create a more neutral assessment of a pitcher. That’s important when signing a free agent pitcher since Fangraphs’ WAR will give a much more accurate picture of how he pitched and is much better are predicting how he’ll pitch in the future. Jackson had an fWAR of 3.8, compared to Lanna’s 1.3. Huge difference.
WAR is a dumb stat, especially for pitchers. FIP is as well. It implies that pitchers have little control over balls in play, when that is not true at all. The main goal of a pitcher is to distrupt the hitters timing. If the hitter is out in front of a pitch or late on a pitch they will more than likely hit a weak ground ball or a pop up resulting in an out more often than not. So to use a stat that says pitchers have little control over balls in play is dumb IMO. If they do thier job they have a huge impact on balls in play. This is also why I hate BABIP and most sabermetrics.
WAR is a useless stat, especially for pitchers. FIP is as well. It implies that pitchers have little control over balls in play, when that is not true at all. The main goal of a pitcher is to distrupt the hitters timing. If the hitter is out in front of a pitch or late on a pitch they will more than likely hit a weak ground ball or a pop up resulting in an out more often than not. So to use a stat that says pitchers have little control over balls in play is useless IMO. If they do their job then they have a huge impact on balls in play. This is also why I hate BABIP and most sabermetrics.
How could you hate BABIP? It tells of factual events and nothing more. What conclusions people draw from them is entirely up to them, but the stat itself isn’t complicated or misleading.
Rizzo is a tard for this belief that overpaying subprime Boras clients somehow gets you somewhere. If your going to deal with Boras then get someone good like Fielder.
The Edwin Jackson deal Rizzo just signed is MONUMENTALLY better than that Fielder deal that’ll probably start crippling the Tigers soon.
Fielder till he’s 37 and after paying him 214MM or Jackson in his prime for 1 season to help bolster a rotation that could use a solid 200IP guy………hmmm.
Considering he’s played for 6 teams in 9 seasons, it makes you wonder why so many teams have given up on him in such a short span. I think the Red Sox made a good choice not to aggressively pursue him.
$8-12 seems like a lot for a one-year contract in a crowded rotation…I don’t know, Boras magic again.
Boras wanted something like 5/75 if I remember correctly, so I wouldn’t say this is him using his magic.
When in Washington, do as the politicians do: overpay.
Maybe you should have GMs in unmarked white vans park in front of free agent homes with candy in the back rather than pay a few extra million dollars to get the talent in the nation’s capital.
Boras 2 / Righteousness 0
Seems like a fair price to me.
Im gunna drop an idea here. Maybe if Trout proves himself in Spring Training:
Bourjos for Lannan and Anthony Rendon. Angels need a #5 and Lannan could be that guy.
Peter Bourjos: Going into the 2010 season, he was named the second best prospect in the Angels system, the ‘Fastest Baserunner’, and the ‘Best Defensive Outfielder’ by Baseball America
You on the other hand want to trade John Lannon for him… HAHAHAHA!
You want Dipoto fired don’t you?
No, I could see a trade in the works involving Baltimore
Robert Andino for Lannon. Duquette will declare “Victory Is Mine”
I will give you points for style, not many, but some.
Even if said prospect was Anthony Rendon? He seems to be permanently blocked at third base, if the Nats are able to extend Zimmerman, which is highly likely.
Um he cant be traded
Why not? Zimmerman is one of the top 3B in baseball. Rendon’s just a prospect.
well, technically he COULD be traded, but he’d be a ptbnl
that said, a player can’t be officially traded until a year after they signed after being drafted, which means rendon couldn’t be officially traded until august, that’s why he said rendon can’t be traded right now
PTBNLs have to be named within 6 months so he can’t be a PTBNL either. He was right when he said Rendon can’t be traded.
You do know they can move Zimmerman to first right?
And he literally CANT be traded. You cant trade first year players until a year after they’ve been drafted.
I’m excited to see how the Nationals do this upcoming season. On paper they look pretty strong, but we all know on paper doesn’t always translate to the field.
The Nats are legit
Gio, jackson,and Lannan in the same rotation? This could be walk city, I’d be willing to put money on the Nationals pitching staff leading the leagues in walks this year.
Lannan won’t be in the rotation, and I would gladly take that bet
Gio, jackson,and Lannan in the same rotation? This could be walk city, I’d be willing to put money on the Nationals pitching staff leading the leagues in walks this year.
I wish I knew why half the things I try to post have to get ‘approved by a moderator’ before being posted when they have nothing vulgar in them
Complete joke of a ‘moderation’ team on this website
with all due respect to madson.. signing of the offseason imo
Ok, Jackson is an improvement over Lannan pretty clearly but certainly isn’t worth double the money. Super overpay for a slight improvement isn’t as genius as people make it out to be.
Here’s my theory, Lannan is a groundball pitcher that had to deal without Laroche all year last year and Zim for a part of the year. Espinosa and Desmond are still not the best fielders up the middle as well so Lannan didn’t really have a chance last year by those standards did he? I don’t care for the deal for the Nats by those standards, there rotation was impressive without EJax.
Love the deal for Atlanta though, this rotation is great but they are gonna have some serious control issues.
Have fun trailing them Miami.
Yes, the Nats have a great starting pitching group, but the offense is weaker compared to the other teams fighting for playoff spots. I think the Nats really need to acquire some offensive stud somehow. Trade from your strength (starting pitchers).
If Zimmerman can stay healthy for the whole year, Werth can bounce back to regular numbers, and Desmond(26), Espinosa(24), and Ramos(24) can show progression the Nationals offense should be just fine.
Don’t forget about LaRoche. Assuming he comes back healthy he should be a lock for a .270 BA and 20+ HRs.
Lot of questions when it comes to the Nats offense.
I usually follow the Reds, but I think the Nats are my number 2 team. I wish you guys well.
I love the one year deal for the Gnats. EJ is well on his way to shattering Mike Morgan’s record for most teams played for.
Talk about Boras screwing himself over this winter.
Just saw this about the Nationals signing of Jackson:
The Washington Post
Posted at 11:15 AM ET, 02/03/2012
Details emerge on Edwin Jackson’s contract
By Adam Kilgore
Some new details emerged today on Edwin Jackson’s contract, from a person with knowledge of the deal. Jackson will make $11 million in 2012, not $10 million as had previously been widely reported, including by The Post. Jackson’s deal also includes significant award bonuses for making the all-star team, receiving Cy Young and MVP votes and postseason awards.
So does this make 5 draft picks in the first and first supp. round this year for the Cards?
i count 4.
2 for pujols, their original 1st rounder, and 1 for jackson (type b).
Damit Jackson is vastly overpaid