The first domino has fallen in the Reds’ offseason rebuild, as Cincinnati has announced the trade of All-Star third baseman Todd Frazier to the White Sox in a three-team deal that also includes the Dodgers. Cincinnati will receive three prospects — infielders Jose Peraza and Brandon Dixon and outfielder Scott Schebler — from the Dodgers, who, in turn, will receive prospects Frankie Montas, Micah Johnson and Trayce Thompson from the White Sox.
The acquisition of Frazier will give the White Sox a drastically altered infield composition, as he’ll now take over at third base with fellow trade acquisition Brett Lawrie moving over to second base. Frazier, who turns 30 in February, adds a power bat to the middle of Chicago’s lineup to complement fellow right-handed slugger Jose Abreu and also gives Chicago a well above-average defender at the hot corner. The reigning Home Run Derby champion, Frazier has batted a combined .264/.322/.479 with 64 home runs over the past two seasons with the Reds. He’s set to earn $7.5MM in 2016 and can be controlled via the arbitration process for the 2017 season, after which he will be eligible for free agency.
Frazier’s trade value probably would have been higher were it not for a dismal second half. Some will speculate that his Home Run Derby success altered his swing following the All-Star Game, but whatever the reason, Frazier’s .220/.274/.390 second half paled in comparison to his monstrous .278/.333/.550 first half.
With Frazier on board, the Sox can shift their focus to shortstop, unless the plan is to enter the season with the largely untested Tyler Saladino in that role. Assuming an outside addition at the shortstop position, Saladino could slide into a utility role and back up at three different positions around the revamped infield.
For the Reds, the centerpiece of the deal is Peraza — a fleet-footed, Major League ready infielder whom they can control for the next six seasons. Peraza has long rated as one of the Braves’ better prospects but was flipped to the Dodgers in the 13-player summer blockbuster that also included the Marlins. Peraza’s stay with the Dodgers will be brief, but he should be in line for fairly regular at-bats immediately in Cincinnati — especially if the Reds ultimately trade Brandon Phillips as well.
Peraza, 22 in April, made his big league debut in 2015, collecting four hits in 22 September at-bats for Los Angeles. He batted a combined .293/.316/.378 with 33 steals between his two Triple-A affiliates last season and has a pair of 60-steal seasons under his belt in the minor leagues. His youth is one of the keys to the deal, as Peraza reached the Majors at the same age we see many top prospects selected out of college in the draft. He’s three years younger than Johnson or Thompson, and the Reds are clearly banking on continued development and improved production as he catches up to his competition in terms of physical maturity. Peraza entered the 2015 campaign universally ranked as a Top 100 prospect — MLB.com had him 38th overall — and he figures to do so again in 2016, as Baseball America’s Ben Badler tweets.
BA recently ranked Peraza as the Dodgers’ No. 4 prospect, trailing only Corey Seager, Julio Urias and Jose De Leon. In Badler’s scouting report, he praised Peraza’s bat-to-ball skills and speed, noting that he could hit for average and swipe 30-plus bases in a regular role. BA’s camp is split on Peraza, it would seem, as John Manuel tweets that Peraza needs to play shortstop to have value as a regular, while J.J. Cooper opines that Peraza should be a solid regular, albeit not a star. Peraza ranks fourth on MLB.com’s list of Dodgers prospects as well and, in fact, ranks 24th on their current Top 100 list. He’s seen time at shortstop, second base and in center field in his career thus far, and second base would seem the most obvious path to at-bats for him in the event of a Phillips swap. He’ll give Cincinnati another versatile piece that can conceivably handle multiple positions, joining Eugenio Suarez in that capacity.
Like Peraza, Schebler can conceivably step right onto the Reds’ roster. He, too, made his big league debut in 2015, albeit receiving just 40 plate appearances. Schebler unquestionably struggled at the Triple-A level, as his .241/.322/.410 batting line (in the hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League, no less) was a marked departure from the .280/.365/.556 line he posted as a 23-year-old in Double-A. However, he’ll play all of next season at 25 years of age and has a history of hitting for power in the minors, as evidenced by the combined 55 homers he launched from 2013-14.
Schebler ranked 13th on MLB.com’s Dodgers Top 30 and 14th on the same list from BA. MLB.com notes that he’s best-suited for corner outfield work — an area of need in Cincinnati — and is a solid baserunner but not a big base-stealer. Some scouts, they add, are hesitant with Schebler because he relies more on raw strength than bat speed to produce his power. BA has previously pegged him as a possible regular in left field, and former Fangraphs scribe Kiley McDaniel noted heading into the 2015 season that Schebler “fits the bill as an under-the-radar performer who could surprise.” However, I’d imagine that his 2015 struggles have clouded that likelihood to some extent.
The 23-year-old Dixon didn’t rank among Los Angeles’ Top 30 prospects in the estimation of BA or MLB.com. He was selected in the third round of the 2015 draft and raked in 45 games at Class-A Advanced this past season before struggling after a promotion to Double-A. He’s played second base, third base and the outfield in his young career and posted a cumulative batting line of .263/.303/.443 with 19 homers this past season between his two levels. Dixon also turned in a nice showing in the Arizona Fall League, batting .295/.318/.508 with three homers in 16 games, and he performed well last winter while playing in the Australian Baseball League.
The Dodgers, meanwhile, pick up a number of prospects with plus tools but uncertain overall packages. Montas, 23 in March, can reach 100 mph with his fastball and has been developed as a starting pitcher, but many scouts still see him as a reliever due to a lack of control. MLB.com currently ranks him as the game’s No. 54 prospect, noting that if everything clicks he’s a potential No. 2 starter, but he could end up as a high-leverage reliever instead due to the aforementioned control issues. BA recently ranked him as the No. 17 prospect in the Double-A Southern League, with Matt Eddy writing that despite holding his velocity deep into starts, troubles with repeating his delivery and lack of strong secondary offerings could lead to relief work.
Thompson, 25 next March, ranked 14th on MLB.com’s list of top White Sox prospects. Known for his excellent athleticism — he’s the brother of NBA superstar Klay Thompson and the son of former NBA player Mychal Thompson — Trayce debuted in 2015 and batted .295/.363/.533 with five homers in 44 games. He hasn’t shown that type of power in the minor leagues, but some have questioned how much he’ll hit in the Majors and projected that he could become a fourth outfielder. Even if that’s the ultimate case, he fits much better on the Dodgers’ current roster than Schebler due to his ability to handle all three outfield positions. The presence of Yasiel Puig, Carl Crawford, Andre Ethier, Joc Pederson, Scott Van Slyke and Enrique Hernandez in L.A. seems to point to Thompson opening next season in the minor leagues, even though he’s more or less ready for big league action. (Further trades could clear a path for him in the Majors.)
Johnson, who turns 25 on Friday, has long been considered the potential second baseman of the future in Chicago, but he’ll now hope to land that role in Los Angeles. His first taste of Major League action in 2015 didn’t go too well, as he batted just .230/.306/.270 in 114 plate appearances. However, Johnson is lauded for his elite speed — he swiped 84 bases in 131 games in 2013 — and delivered a quality .316/.376/.466 batting line in 2015. MLB.com places a 75-grade on his speed (on the 20-80 scale). Johnson, though, has little in the way of power (24 homers in 1761 minor league PAs) and is said to be a shaky defender at second base. He made three errors in 32 starts at second base last season, and in just 280 innings drew ratings of -7 and -3 from Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating, respectively. He could also be ticketed for Triple-A to begin the 2016 season, with veteran Chase Utley on board to hold down the fort at second base while Johnson develops.
Overall, it’s fair to question the return that Cincinnati received in the deal. The trade very clearly hinges on the development of Peraza, whom the Reds reportedly “love” and were on the verge of acquiring in the failed Aroldis Chapman trade, according to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports (Twitter link). The Reds do indeed acquire a pair of players in Peraza and Schebler that are near MLB-ready or presently MLB-ready, but neither seems to possess star-caliber upside. A pair of solid regulars — or even one solid regular, for that matter — will make this a palatable return in the long run, but most seemed to be expecting more impactful prospects in return for a player of Frazier’s caliber, especially when considering his reasonable price tag. Perhaps his poor second half tanked some of his trade value, but given the bulk of clubs that were tied to Frazier the general consensus will be that Cincinnati might have been — or at least should have been — able to acquire more in a trade of this magnitude.
Yahoo’s Jeff Passan first reported that Montas was going to the Dodgers in a trade. C. Trent Rosecrans of the Cincinnati Enquirer broke the news of a three-team deal including Frazier (on Twitter). Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reported the other prospects in the trade (links to Twitter).
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
rr30
Anderson to the Reds?
sportingdissent
Good job, Rick Hahn.
rayrayner
If they dont get an upgrade at SS, Sox may platoon Sanchez and Saladino at SS until Anderson is ready.
Would Frazier possibly play RF if they give up on Garcia?
Steven P.
No way the Sox move Frazier off 3B. His glove is pretty solid there, no reason to move him
sportingdissent
I think you’re right. Most likely we’ll see an outfield upgrade before a new shortstop. But that’s fine. The infield defense is going to be superb if it’s Fraizer at 3B, Lawrie at 2B and that platoon at short (as both guys are good defenders and can also fill a utility role). And the offense is a ton better with Fraizer, Lawrie, and the new catching platoon.
I dare say with that rotation the White Sox look like a contender for the AL Central crown. Signing a Justin Upton would make it official, but they’re pretty close if they’re not there already.
CaliWhiteSoxFan
CaliWhiteSoxFan
Whoa
Priggs89
Like it so far. Wonder how the rest of this deal will look.
Mike_Davis
Peraza, Dixon, Schebler go to #Reds
Mike_Davis
#Dodgers getting Montas, Micah Johnson and Trayce Thompson
lemieuxkarl66
Sox get: Awesome 3B
Dodgers get: 3 intriguing players
Reds get: 3 guys no ones ever heard of.
Someone needs to tell the Reds they had all the leverage in this trade.
bigkempin
Reds get: a 2B with a bunch of speed who was a top prospect in ATL and LA, a power hitting OF Prospect in Schebler, and a speed/power guy in Dixon.
jedihoyer
he was only considered a prospect because at the time he still had a chance at sticking at short, since he is not, that saps a lot of his value.
A'sfaninUK
Uh, no. The Reds got 2 cost controlled everyday players for 1 season of Frazier. Phillips is gone next. Loving this rebuild they’re doing.
aknott1
Frazier is controlled for 2 more years.
Ray Ray
Every player in single A is cost controlled for a full 6 years, but that doesn’t make them more valuable than Todd Frazier. The Reds got hosed in this deal.
RunDMC
This is really making me think ATL sold low on Peraza (plus Alex Wood) if he can headline a deal for Frazier, and all we got back was an inexperienced, albeit decently-priced hitter in Hector Olivera with some potential.
A'sfaninUK
The Braves REALLY wanted Olivera though. They were very interested in overpaying for him.
mikeyst13
Ray Ray- no way they got hosed. How is Frazier more valuable to them then getting potentially your starting 2B and 3B for years to come and a OF that profiles as at least a big power source off the bench and as a 4th guy? Frazier had value this year, then he was going to walk and they’re not going to compete this year anyway. Getting 3 prospects, 2 of which are already pro ready, for one bat is a pretty solid deal.
Ray Ray
Mikey – So if the Angels traded Mike Trout for a rookie league 2B and a AAA 3B and OF, then you think it would be a fair deal? It’s 3 prospects, 2 of which are pro ready for one bat. Now Frazier is not Trout of course, but he is far more than just “one bat.” Plus there is the opinion of a lot of scouts (and myself for whatever that is worth) that Peraza is no more than a utility guy, Schebler is a 4th.5th OF, and the other guy will probably never see the majors at all.
JT19
Just because you’ve never heard of them doesn’t mean they are no name guys worth nothing.
Acuña Matata
People you’ve really got to stop doing this. Think before you write. You not knowing them isn’t our fault. You should probably look up who they are before you blindly start making generalizations
Backatitagain
liarkaka, do you have a mouse in your pocket?
slpdajab55
If you’ve never heard of them then your not paying attention. Frazier is a good player- but is much a product of GASP. (Great American Small Park) – I think the Reds did extremely well on this trade as Frazier again is a nice player but overrated to some degree, check his splits, home away- before after break. Kind of sick
Backatitagain
They certainly saved some money. That’s about one million less seats they have to fill.
bobo678
I don’t get the hype around peraza….he doesn’t have a good glove at short so he needs to be at second base….so a 260 hitter with no power and good speed…..cesar Hernandez …it seems like a replaceable guy… I like schebler though…and really like Thompson that the dodgers got..
southi
Part of the reason Peraza moved to second while he was still in the braves organization was the presence of Andrelton Simmons (who is now with the Angels). However Peraza while decent defensively I doubt will ever be a full time great SS at the major league level. He’ll probably do decent enough at second but in the long run unless I’m totally surprised he will end up as a utility player. His best attributes are his speed and his ability to make contact. However he walks about once a week and therefore relies on a very high BABIP to be any offensive force. If he can get on his speed is great but I expect he will have some long steaks of not being a force at the plate.
ew032
The Reds did just fine in this deal.
BoldyMinnesota
Chapman to the Dodgers
bigkempin
For LA…..this reaks of the Heaney trade. Either Montas or one of their current top P prospects are going to be on the move soon.
link2217
I’m with you here. Has look and feel of a precursor to a trade for sp.
Matt Ch.
Would they flip Montas and maybe De Leon for Gonzales or possibly Sunny Gray. We definitely need a LF and a SP
Matt Ch.
Also Johnson, who is known for SB and shaky defense isn’t a Friedman like player. I could see him being traded as well.
mrnatewalter
I strongly doubt the Dodgers land Gray or Fernandez without giving up at least 1, probably 2, or Pederson, Seager, and Urias. Perhaps all 3.
link2217
It depends how desperate for sp they get. They have the prospects for a gray or Fernandez. I’m thinking Theran from atl is the way they go. Won’t have to give up as much to land him and he still has the upside to be very good.
mrnatewalter
If they want to hold on to Seager & Co., yes, Teheran, or the likes of him, is probably a more realistic option for LA.
The thought seemed to be that LA was going to turn around some of those newly acquired prospects for Fernandez, while I think Miami will likely ask for the best of the best.
link2217
I highly doubt Fernandez is in play for them. My guess is la tried already on Theran but la didn’t have the position prospects atl were looking. But now Johnson and Thompson both could be shipped there. Just speculating.
mrnatewalter
That’s good speculation. Perhaps Thompson and someone else to the Braves for Teheran? Who knows.
It’s certainly possible.
SoCalShu
W/ the acquisition of Trayce I’m curious if Joc would be moved…it was rumored that he wasn’t willing to adjust his swing/approach and he refuses to walk….has BIG power but doesn’t fit the Dodgers Mgt way of playing….
jeetaman
He refuses to walk yet was 7th in all of baseball in walks tied with some guy named Trout…..hmmm.
link2217
Yea I’m not convinced the FO is as high on joc as the fan base and other teams. Still I would think he isn’t moving unless it’s in a package for Fernandez. Perhaps montas and Thompson are to replace joc and urias if la sends those two to Miami.
DodgerBlue83
@socalushu, refuses to walk? That’s news to me and to his minor league and major league stats, which say he walks more then most.
therealryan
Shu, what do you mean Joc won’t walk? He had the 6th highest BB% in baseball last season.
SoCalShu
I agree this acquisition was directly related to another trade.
justinept
Wow…
Priggs89
And this deal just got bad. Trayce Thompson and Micha Johnson heading out too.
jeffbrux
now the sox REALLY need outfield help
Los Calcetines Rojos
how is it bad???
sportingdissent
Well, if you overvalue marginal mlb talent like Thompson and Johnson, then sure it looks bad. But both guys are 25th man ceiling players.
nrd1138
Johnson sure, but Thompson, not so sure on him being average to mediocre and lets face it he was still better than at least Avi Garcia in the OF for the Sox.
Steven P.
Trayce Thompson projects to be a 4th outfielder at best.
Montas is a solid prospect, but has some control concerns and was expendable
Johnson’s defense was very shaky and led to him being sent back down to the minors
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Wow and I thought the Dodgers needed a 3rd baseman
Also, the Orioles could have used a 3rd baseman and then slid Machado to SS
I hope Hardy is ready to go that’s for sure.
Interesting Trade. Honestly, I did not think the White Sox were looking for a Todd Fraizer type.
lemieuxkarl66
I guess you’re not familiar with Machado’s knee or range.
Oh duh. It’s an Orioles fan. Remember the Sosa, Tejada, Palmeiro lineup?
That went well.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Oh please tell me more LK66, I am not completely familiar with Machado or his knee or his range or anything about him.
Scott Thorn
Calm down, internet tough guy.
rr30
Peraza? Yuck.
RunDMC
Yeah, I would really have thought CIN would get more in return for Frazier than that.
JT19
Frazier doesn’t have multiple top 100 prospect value. Limited control left and his bad second half doesn’t help his value (even if you take his solid first half into consideration).
therealryan
What would make you say he doesn’t have value? He’s been a 4-5 WAR player each of the last two years. At only $7mm/WAR, he is worth $56-$70mm, plus another $10mm for the compensation pick, but will only earn $7.5mm this year and $10-$12mm next year. That gives him $50+ million of surplus value and that is worth multiple top 100 prospects.
ChaplinBaseball
Peraza is a good prospect.. His speed should stick him in the majors…
SupremeZeus
Kenny Hahn wanted them so Frazier. That team is still a non contender.
sportingdissent
In that division? We’ll see what the Royals do to make up for the half team they lost, but with their pitching and extremely upgraded offense and infield defense I might lean towards picking them to win the central.
Twinsfan79
Who might you pick to win the AL central? The White Sox? Even after all this, there are still 3 teams better than them in the division. Most likely the fight Detroit for 5th.
stymeedone
Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to what Detroit has done this off season, if you think they will be battling for fifth.
HalosFan
White sox have no clue.
sportingdissent
They traded scraps for a power hitting, defensive ace at 3B who is signed for two years below market. In what universe did they not just win big?
Joe McMahon
Montas is not “scraps”, he’s a great young prospect with a lot of potential. That being said, I agree with you. The White Sox did well.
Steven P.
Montas is a quality prospect, but the Sox could afford to deal him because Carson Fulmer is a better prospect than Montas and more mlb ready
Los Calcetines Rojos
how exactly? they had overall one of the best performing rotations in baseball last season with the absolute worst offense in baseball. Not only did they upgrade 2 positions with 1 trade by now sliding Lawrie to 2B they also have their first legitimate 3B to man the hot corner since Joe Crede. If they added to the offensive side without losing much pitching they would be fine and they came out great in that sense. Trayce Thompson has had awful splits and they sold high, Johnson has Sanchez who arguably is the better overall 2B (defense included), while Montas hurts they still have Fulmer, Adams, Johnson, and Beck in the minors that all profile as either a TOR or back-end starters.
jimmyjack
Yup. And Quintana, with his high GB rate, got a little better this offseason.
nrd1138
Lawrie’s fielding is no where near Sanchez’s at second. Who cares how many runs you drive in if you give up the same amount, if not greater, in the field?
I hope he can get better, but his fielding at second is worrisome.
Priggs89
I guess they didn’t really believe in Trayce. They did a good job selling high on him if that’s the case. He did pretty much come out of nowhere last year.
Not loving the deal though.
A'sfaninUK
“Didn’t believe in him” < wanting an all-star 3B who mashes more
SupremeZeus
I’m guessing their thought process was probably….Thompson’s offensive numbers were a mirage and he is a 4th outfielder, Johnson is a train wreck defensively a 2b and Montas is the real prize who might become a star. In return you get 2 years of a likely 4 WAR at 3B.
Priggs89
You’re most likely right. If that’s the case, the Sox did a good job striking while Thompson and Micah have some value.
stymeedone
Why is it impossible to think that the White Sox simply traded value for value? Sometimes, believe it or not, other teams won’t take your crappy players for their quality major leaguers. A player doesn’t automatically become a bum when they leave the windy city.
A'sfaninUK
FWIW Steamer has Frazier at 3.2 fWAR next year, and that’s not counting his likely adjustment window in moving to the AL. Many good hitters have a rough month or two or even season when they move leagues.
A'sfaninUK
Wow, I’m a fan of every player in this deal – lots of underrated prospects across the board and Frazier in Chicago batting behind Abreu is gunna be sick too.
Rarely see a 3 team with no immediate winner or loser, but hey here we are!
joshbresser
The Reds are a CLEAR loser here.
southi
Agreed. So now the Reds have Saurez, Cozart, and Peraza for the two middle infield spots. I’m wondering how that works out over the next few months. I’m guessing someone gets traded.
stymeedone
You seem to have forgotten Phillips.
coleham
Phillips is the next guy to get traded.
slasher016
Suarez will play 3rd.
A'sfaninUK
The only thing thats clear is that your caps lock is broken. Peraza and Schelber are really underrated and Frazier is older and doesnt have OBP skills anyway. It’s a fair return.
thebare54
Great move for the White Sox good move for the Reds Dodgers ? To be seen cause Thompson is another good OF were its crowded
excowboy19
and the Indians continue to sit on their hands and do absolutely nothing. looks like it’s going to be another long season.
beyou02215
Exactly! They have the pitching to win now. Frazier should have been their number 1 target. But no. They go out and get Napoli.
beyou02215
Exactly! They have the pitching to win NOW. Frazier should have been their number 1 target. But no. Instead they sign Napoli.
pullhitter445
Sox will need a big upgrade in the outfield, go get cespedes put avi in a trade or down to the minors
captainballz
Yeah…that would be the crowing piece for this offseason. Sign Upton or Cespedes and things are really looking alot better. And they gave up NONE of their SP or Anderson.
joshbresser
What an absolutely horrible deal for the Reds. LA got a better package.
seamaholic 2
Not at all. Peraza is a major league ready guy who can play 2B or SS and hit at the top of the order. He and Hamilton will be terrors on the basepaths. Schebler can flat rake too. That’s not a bad haul to be honest.
WisBrave 2
Not too mention Peraza can play CF and if need be has enough arm to handle 3rd.
southbeachbully
Not trying to be too negative as these prospects are relatively young and can improve however…
Peraza’s OBP at AAA was less than impressive (.316 in 480 AB).
Schebler had an OPS of .731 and 13 HRS…that’s hardly “raking”.
Dixon struggled at age 23 at AA with an OPS under .700.
I would think they would’ve gotten at least one elite prospect for Frazier. Maybe Peraza will turn into an “elite” prospect but so far he’s not shown that at the AAA level yet.
WisBrave 2
Peraza OBP is tied into his AVG and was only 21 last season witch is considered young for AAA. But he’s now Reds top prospect even if Reds decide start him off in AAA he won’t say for long and gives Reds a leadoff hitter.
joshbresser
Schebler hit .240 in the minors last year, lol
A'sfaninUK
So Brett Lawrie gets traded for complaining about playing 2B, to a team that’s going to play him at 2B.
nrd1138
Ohh boy, more of the Sox bringing players on under false pretenses.. I mean that worked so well for Dunn and LaRoche. That and Lawrie’s fielding at second is not as good as Sanchez was last year either which worries me. Driving in runs does not matter when you give up unearned runs in the same game
Los Calcetines Rojos
okay, there aren’t many players in general who are better defenders than Sanchez in the league, or saladino for that matter. This team struggled with offense beyond belief so the additions of Frazier and Lawrie accounts for nearly 150 rbis and 50 home runs, to their lineup. Not many teams ever have the chance to say that.
Rbase
This means that Brandon Phillips will be on the move soon (Nationals probably, as reported here). I don’t get this trade for the Reds. I think they could have gotten a better prospect package for Frazier, who was the top hitter available in a trade.
seamaholic 2
He isn’t the top hitter available in trade. Cargo’s better, for one example.
Rbase
I do not agree with you on that. While Todd Frazier’s batting line is not as impressive as I thought, I still rate him higher than Cargo. Although I am not one of the Coors field haters, Cargo hit .234/.294/.464 on the road this year as opposed to .299/.355/617 at home , and his career home-road splits show a similar trend. Also, he gets injured more often and plays at a deeper position.
Ray Ray
Once again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that plays for or ever will play for Colorado will have vastly different H/R splits. They are useless for judging Rockies players due to the fact that Coors Field is such a different environment than every other road park.
cosmo1
Right… but the point still stands that his slash was 234/294/464 in any park that is not Coors Field. If traded, he’ll be playing almost all his games somewhere beside Coors Field. It’s a relevant concern.
stymeedone
Why is it impossible to think that the White Sox simply traded value for value? Sometimes, believe it or not, other teams won’t take your crappy players for their quality major leaguers. A player doesn’t automatically become a bum when they leave the windy city.
Ray Ray
But the road stats for the Rockies are skewed as well. 3 of the 4 parks most heavily represented in that stat are SD, LA, and SF. All three are extreme pitcher’s parks. So unless he is getting traded to one of those three teams, road splits are useless.
Ray Ray
If all 29 other parks were EQUALLY represented, then you might have an argument. But until that can be accomplished, H/R splits are meaningless.
greatd
Agree with stymeedone that it’s a relevant concern.
jedihoyer
you realize ops+, and wRC+ are both park adjusted right?
Lance
H/R splits are hardly meaningless…..especially for Coors. Vinny Castilla had hall of fame numbers for Colorado but was mediocre at best for other clubs. Dante Bichette,….a rockies beast, averaging nearly 30HR and .315 average. About 50 points lower for every other team he played for. Larry Walker was a good hitter in Montreal and STL but a GREAT hitter for the Rocks. Several other examples out there and the jury on Tulo outside of of Denver is still. There’s no reason to believe anyone trading for CarGo should expect anything different from what these others have done in the past and as a result…why trade a lot to get him?
Ray Ray
I notice you didn’t mention Matt Holliday, otherwise known as the only player to leave Colorado while still in his prime. And Larry Walker was GREAT in Montreal as well. Of course they all hit better in Coors, but so would EVERY other player in the history of Major League Baseball. That is the reason they are meaningless for Coors. EVERY player will not be a better hitter in CitiField, Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Oakland, Dodger Stadium or any other field, but they all would be at Coors.
As far as the road stats go, until they come up with a formula that equalizes all 29 road stadiums, then the stat is at the mercy of the other four teams in your division. The NL West has 3 of the toughest parks to hit in in SD, SF, and LA. Those three stadiums make up a full third (27 games) of the Rockies road games every single year. While hitters parks such as Cincinnati, Philly, or Chicago count for 3 games each every year. Therefore the Rockies road splits are at a pure disadvantage just as their home splits are at a pure advantage. This mean the gap between the two is more likely to be further apart than ANY other team in the league. Some Rockies analysts have realized this and started using an average of the two, which is a little better. However, most have just stopped looking at the stat altogether. Feel free to disagree, but that doesn’t make me wrong.
greatd
They maybe extreme but that doesn’t make the stat irrelevant.
Thank you and goodbye.
Lance
Holliday has done well in STL. We’ll just have to disagree on the definition of “Great” in discussion of Walker. His average for the Expos was .281. It was 50 points higher for the Rocks. Larry averaged 25 HR’s a year for Denver (including several injury seasons that limited his ab’s) …for Montreal? about 15 hr’s. Larry never had a 100 rbi season for montreal. BTW, Colorado made a great deal to send Holliday to Oak …getting CarGo and Houston Street,
A'sfaninUK
Fact: Todd Frazier has weak OBP skills.
g55s
Sounds like the Dodgers are stocking up prospects for a major SP… Fernandez?
Joe McMahon
Stocking up on prospects? They traded three prospects and got three back. They’re just moving prospects around, not adding any extra.
willm
Trayce Thompson really makes Puig on the outs I would think… call me crazy but are the Angels a match for Puig? He’s a cheaper LF option than anyone on the FA market. Maybe Pujols and Trout can have some effect on him. Angels have CJ Wilson or Hector Santiago for the Dodgers.
I’m NOT CRAZY am I?
hibbisco
If you think the Dodgers are trading Puig for CJ Wilson, you might be.
beyou02215
Yes. Puig would command Newcomb plus plus plus. LAA might not have the pieces.
jkunkle
Newcomb is now in the Atlanta organization.
jkunkle
Puig’s value is at a all time low right now. He will be a Dodger come April unless they dump him for nothing just to avoid a distraction
southbeachbully
It’s always interesting when we discussing trade scenarios about player “A” and then the trade actually happens in the moment. On another page Reds fans were saying that it would cost the Indians Salazar or Carrasco plus prospects for Frazier. In actuality, they get 1 top 100 prospect and a couple of lesser prospects (who MIGHT end up being better players but currently look rather unimpressive).
SaladFingers69
I don’t know which page you were on, but I’d recommend no longer reading that page (unless it’s for a good laugh). Both Salazar and Carrasco are immensely more valuable than Frazier, especially the latter.
Bob M.
Carrasco and Salazar are under team control for 5 more years, at an incredibly low price. People may not realize it, but the Indians staff rivals the Mets. I could see Bauer moved for a bat, but the top 3 of Kluber, Carrasco and Salazar are not being moved, unless its for a superstar. Frazier has 2 years of control, at a high price. The trade should be comparable to what the Brewers got for Carlos Gomez.
mrnatewalter
The Brewers got a monstrous haul for 2 years of Gomez. It helped that they traded him at the deadline, so the price was steeper.
dhud
$7.5 mil for a gold glove candidate, 35 HR, All-Star 3B is hardly a high price in today’s market
nando390
Is this only a good trade for the dodgers because they can potentially flip these kids?
I don’t know much of the players going to the dodgers, we’re they in high regard?
Joe McMahon
Montas is a very solid young pitching prospect. Similarly skilled to Peraza, I think,maybe a slightly higher ceiling. I think this was just about the Dodgers needing a young MLB ready starter more than a young MLB ready 2B. The other four pieces in the deal are all relatively minor.
captainballz
The Sox projected Montas to be a reliever.
mcdusty31
So if the Dodgers don’t need an MLB ready second baseman then who exactly is going to play 2B this year? Utley? Not so sure he’s ready to man the keystone for an entire season, I thought it would’ve been nice to take a look at Peraza to see if he can make up for the failed Dee Gordon trade a little bit
Bob M.
I think it wouldve been pretty nuts for the Dodgers to go into a season with 3 young bats, all at once trying to figure out MLB pitching. They may need to sign a utility player, but if in a pinch Turner can play 2b. Utley’s defense is still fine at 2b and is one year removed from a 4.4 WAR. Utley’s second half after getting healthy and his BABIP not being ridiculously unlucky produced a .766 OPS
BlueSkyLA
The Dodgers do need an MLB-ready 2B, but they did not get one in this deal. What they got instead in Johnson is Dee Gordon from three or four years ago: a speedy but very rough slap hitter with dubious defensive skills. He’s also a LHB so he doesn’t make any sense as a platoon with Utley.
Cam
Any chance Kike is given a shot at 2B full time?
BlueSkyLA
I hope not. His value is the ability to any position on any given day.
neoncactus
Not thrilled with Utley as the only realistic option either. Just trying to remember that the Dodgers won the division last year with another poor-hitting middle infielder from the Phillies.
BlueSkyLA
Nothing about Montas speaks to him being a MLB-ready starter.
jedihoyer
but he is most likely ready after a month to be a reliever. dominant stuff out of the pen. hit 103 on the radar game at least years international game in his 1 inning.
BlueSkyLA
Hard throwing is impressive but he needs to be in the strike zone to be dominant. Even so the question is whether he solves the rotation problem.
beyou02215
Montas will be in the bullpen. Possibly grooming him for closer work down the road, especially with Kenley down to his last year.
redsfanman
In Peraza the Reds got their future leadoff hitter in a 21 year old middle infielder who almost never strikes out. Schleber? Eh. Dixon is a throw in.
With Cozart, Suarez, and Phillips currently on the team I wonder who plays where. Maybe Peraza returns to AAA for a bit.
Peraza has a lot of doubters, mostly due to his lack of power, but the Reds have had plenty of success recently with under-appreciated prospects like DeSclafani and Suarez. Hopefully Peraza is another.
chrisagiddings
I’m guessing Phillips gets traded. Reds brass will get fan flack for the move since he’s a favorite (but so was Frazier).
Thinking Peraza slots in at 2B and Suarez learns to work 3B/LF and will spell both SS and 2B as needed.
Schleber is solid. Good prospect who I think will play very well in GABP. LF, maybe a starter, probably a bench guy behind or platooning with Winker down the line.
Dixon is a bench guy with some flexibility and upside. I think he needs a new organization to jumpstart him again. That’s needed sometimes. We see what Edwin Encarnacion became. I’m convinced the change in venue sparked his competitive drive again.
treday
Not entirely, Peraza has a lot of doubters due to lack of power AND low OBP ability. It would be fine if he had one, but lacking both can be extremely limiting to his ability to stick as a regular.
minnie4hof
When will my White Sox ever learn? Players just do not transition well from the NL to the AL.
williamg
In Todd case I think he will do fine
JT19
Would Montas, Thompson and Johnson not have been enough for Frazier? I don’t know their exact value and we don’t know how much the Reds may value those guys, but I would think those three should/could/would be enough for Frazier. If they were, I don’t get why they weren’t flipped to the Reds instead of having to get the Dodgers involved.
Ray Ray
Because the Reds didn’t want a pitcher as the headliner of the deal. They have enough AA/AAA/MLB young pitching. They needed position players.
JT19
Ahh okay thanks.
citizen
how can the white sox have a trade but not include a sale?
captainballz
lol….Sale? The Reds could offer their entire team and that wouldn’t be enough.
Los Calcetines Rojos
why would chris sale be traded?
cosmo1
It was a joke lol +1 to OP
double
Fascinating deal because the Reds, essentially, acquired a pitcher, second baseman, and outfielder from the White Sox and then traded them to the Dodgers for two second basemen and an outfielder. The Pereza/Johnson and Thompson/Schebler are who you like better and the Reds liked the Dodgers’ players better, but that’d make it a Montas for Dixon swap and that isn’t a good one.
dotnet19
Reds might lose 110 games this year.
A'sfaninUK
They’re in a much better position to win than Milwaukee.
BlueSkyLA
And that’s a good thing?
captainballz
Nice job, Rick. And to to the author, Tim Anderson should be ready for SS next year so Saladino is fine for now.
ronk
This speaks a lot to what it seams ATL already knew. Peraza wasn’t gonna stick.
stymeedone
He was just traded as the headliner in a trade for Todd Frasier, and you say this means Atlanta traded him because he is NOT going to become a major league player? I would think it makes it more likely that he will become one THIS YEAR.
gobraves46
There is really nothing not to like about this trade for any of the three teams involved.
Ray Ray
I disagree. I think the Reds are a distant third in this deal. Simply because I don’t think 2B is the Reds biggest need. They needed a outfielder or two and now a third baseman. Unless they are planning on using one of Cozart/Suarez/Peraza at third base now. Even still I am not a big fan of trading power for speed.
seamaholic 2
Frazier’s only controlled for a couple years, and don’t overlook Scott Schebler. Dude can flat hit.
Ray Ray
So can Frazier and he has proven it. Everything I have seen so far label Schebler as maybe a #4/#5 OF at best and Peraza as a likely utility guy and the other guy is pretty much just minor league filler. I could be wrong, but I could be right too. I just think that if this is the best package they could get for Frazier, they should have kept him until either of the next two deadlines. At least they would have been able to sell more tickets.
stymeedone
Granderson was projected to be a 4th OF when he was coming up with Detroit, because Maybin was the CF of the future. Sometimes, getting an opportunity can change everything. Schebler looks to be in the right place at the right time.
Ray Ray
That is true, but how many times did a 4th OF NOT become Curtis Granderson? Of course it can happen, but trading stars for scraps and hoping for the best case scenario is probably not the best way to run a franchise.
greatd
Not all guys pan out but you do have
to take risks here and there right?
Maybe in your perfect world all number 1 prospects pan out but
there are bust number 1 prospects as well.
It’s a matter of how much risk you want to take in a player.
Backatitagain
They not only got Peraza, Schebler and Dixon, They got 15-20 million dollars as well.
slasher016
They got a 2B and LF who could both be productive in the majors this year. LF is wide open. 2B could very easily become open if they move Phillips, and either way 3B is now open for Suarez/Peraza. This filled a need, get younger, cheaper, and eventually replace Frazier’s value. Won’t happen this year, but it could in 3-4 when Frazier would be long gone.
jedihoyer
dodgers made out like bandits, peraza is basically a utility guy, at least they got the highest upside out of this.
mick4488
So, the Reds were asking for Carrasco or Salazar from the Indians and they end up with this package for Frazier?
Joe McMahon
Carrasco and Salazar was a ridiculous asking price for Frazier. That was never going to be a thing. Also, the Reds were likely never asking for that in a 1-1 trade anyway, so it’s a moot point.
Ray Ray
I would be willing to bet that this is the package that would have coming to the Reds for Aroldis Chapman. And that’s probably why the Dodgers were involved in this trade to begin with.
willm
That’s probably right
redsrooter
just watch and see…if Chapman is suspended 40 games…who will want him then?
Ray Ray
I guarantee you someone pays him at least $50 million dollars next off season. I think someone will still want him.
stymeedone
Bet Washington would trade Pappelbon for Chapman!
slasher016
In that case MORE teams will want him. If he gets suspended 40 games his free agency will get suspended for a year and he’ll have 122 + 162 games of control instead of just one year.
ChaplinBaseball
Now The Reds are the new Royals… Building from within… Trading for prospects and draft picks.. Well sorry Reds fans.. Another losing season.. How I miss the big red machine…
cosmo1
Take it from a Cubs fan… these lean years are worth it. Embrace the rebuild. Better to finish dead last a couple years than middle-of- the-pack indefinitely,
Ray Ray
These lean years? You mean the past 108 years?
nrd1138
I wish I could thumbs up this comment
Ray Ray
Just the comment means enough to me. Thanx,
cosmo1
No, I pretty much meant the first 3 years of Epstein, when they went into full-blown rebuild. If “lean years” only means not winning a WS, then I guess the Rockies have had a pretty lean entire existance.
Ray Ray
Yes they have. Do you think you are telling me something that I didn’t already know? It’s called a joke buddy, lighten up.
copypasta
Burned
greatd
Rockies fan who’ve never won it talking to another club fan about the title.
This is just hilarious.
kkovo1029
Take it from a Cubs fan, 109 years and counting.
Backatitagain
Braves could do a deal with the Reds for their other high cost infielder by sending Nick Markakis 3yr/32.5mil and Kolby Allard, MLB#88, LHP to Cincinnati Reds for Brandon Phillips 2yr/27mil and Tyler Stephenson MLB#93, C. Reds Pick up a solid hitting left-handed-right fielder who will play well in their park plus Allard, the Braves Number 1 draft pick from 2015. As a result, the reds open a place for Suarez or Cosart to play second base. The Braves get a second baseman for two years while middle infield prospects develop, albeit paying $6million additional in 2016(2.5)/2017(3.5). The Braves get a catching prospect they need on nearly the same level as Allard from the same 2015 Draft. Win-Win!
Tooki Toussaint, RHP, MLB#69, could be substituted for Kolby Allard if Cincinnati preferred and paid the $6million, Or Aaron Blair, RHP, MLB#61 could be substituted for Allard if Cincinnati preferred and paid the $6million, plus included Cody Reed, LHP prospect.
wil1447
Dumbest trade proposal I have seen yet, plus you have said the same thing 4 other times. This is terrible why give up one of our top pitching prospects and nick for Brandon Phillips and some catcher. We are rebuilding and so are the Reds this trade will never happen makes 0 sense
Backatitagain
Vision is something that you are born with
slasher016
If this is vision you need lasik.
dhud
If you did your research, that “some catcher” is a pretty good ball player…
aknott1
The Reds have no use for Markakis.
Backatitagain
I get it they will play with two outfielders.
dhud
The Reds have zero interest in trading position prospects for pitching prospects. It’s been said 100 times on here, but the Reds have a surplus of young arms.
Also don’t see them interested in Markakis. Why would they want to pay his contract and still lose 90 games?
Lance
agreed. why on earth would the Reds be interested in Markakis unless the Braves were willing to just give him away and pick up most of his contract. He was not doing that well the last couple years in Baltimore, which is why the Orioles let him go. And last year, Markakis was most disappointing for the Braves. A pretty good average for almost NOTHING for power.
mrnatewalter
Thompson, Montas, and Micah Johnson going to LA… perhaps protection for when they lose Urias, Seager, and Pederson (amongst others) for Jose Fernandez?
Cam
The Dodgers are not trading their starting CF, starting SS and the top pitching prospect in the game (amongst others) for Fernandez.
Priggs89
Let’s see how much Jerry wants to win. Find ANY way possible to get rid of LaRoche and go sign Cespedes or Upton to man the outfield.
hojostache
Too bad the Reds couldn’t have gotten a more elite prospect. Chi def. came out on top in this deal. The Reds may be okay, but they are taking more risk on their prospects panning out. LAD…it seemed more lateral, so I’m guessing future trades will impact if this was a good move or not for them.
redsrooter
You’re also missing a key point on the closer Chapman….if he indeed suspended for 40 games as is rumored and also very likely..the Reds will get another year on him at the same current price….thus they will not trade him.
Bob M.
That mlb.com top 100 is really bad.
Out of place Met fan
Underwhelmed by the Reds return. Like the Dodgers haul…
redsrooter
You must not follow the Arizona Fall league…Johnson will end up the utility player in the majors if he ever even sticks with a team…Reds will be be fine in the long run..they got 3 solid prospects for one player and lost more of that albatross salary. Phillips will be next, thank goodness.
Out of place Met fan
Follow enough AFL to know to not put to much stock in small sample sizes of minor league stats. Especially a league which at one time was dominated by luminaries such as Olt, Junior Lake, Josh Vitters.
Johnson maybe a utility player, but they only have up one as well. Additionally got Yet another top arm for their system.
A 7.5M salary is hardly an albatross
chesteraarthur
Arbitration salaries are albatrosses?
nrd1138
Good trade for the Sox, until I saw Thompson as part of the deal. I think with him included that is too much for a 30 year old 3rd baseman with only 2 years left of control. The problem is in the Sox zeal to make a headline (because the Cubs apparently were getting too much press) they went ahead with giving up the one decent position player to come out of their system, in forever, in Thompson. Also forgot in plugging their hole at 3rd they still now have a hole in the OF as Garcia is likely not going to find his power stroke and Cabrera should be DH at this point. I know it is a long offseason but I would be very surprised if the Sox get Cespedes.
westcoastwhitesox
We never know if a team is trading away good prospects bc they know more about the player and have correctly estimates the perceived value of the player is higher than the actual potential….but i agree 3 near-term MLB contributors (and 3of Sox’s most tradeable MiLB’ers) for 2years of Frazier seems like a lot.
Steven P.
I think you are hugely overvaluing Thompson. He is projected to be a 4th outfielder or fringe starter
His high strikeout rate and career .241 batting average in the minors doesn’t suggest that he will ever hit well enough to start in the majors
Baseball21
I don’t think anyone realizes they can move guys around…Peraza has 6 years of club control, long time to figure out where to play…And Schebler guy hit 55 homers between 2013-2014…that’s not bad given the fact GABP is very hitter friendly. The Reds are gonna look like the early 2000s Reds (horrible) but at least they have a direction.
ASapsFables
Imo, bad deal for the Reds. The prospect package from the White Sox going to Dodgers would have been better for CIncinnati in a straight 2-team trade beteween Chicago and Cincinnati.
Furthermore, the Dodgers could have used Todd Frazier just as much if not more at 3B than the White Sox.
The White Sox also might have been better off dealing those 3 prospects in a straight 2-team deal with the Dodgers for troubled RF Yasile Puig, who is younger, cheaper and has twice the team control that Frazier comes with.
Bottom Line: All three teams could have done better but pending other related acquisitions this offseason, the White Sox appear to have gotten the best of the deal while the Reds were fleeced.
mrshyguy99
not really it not like dude young. they have a 3rd baseman who about the same age and is pretty good if he keep it up. our 3rd baseman hit for a good avg of .290 with decent pop 16 HR. it would of been a good idea to get him if to move turner to 2nd other then that dodgers didn’t have the need for a 3rd baseman like the soxs did
westcoastwhitesox
Woah did the Sox give up too much for 2 years of Frazier????
nrd1138
Well I presume they will try to work out an extension and lock him up for at least 3 more years after the 2 years, but at first impulse I want to say yes, at least by including Thompson, but you have to give up SOMEONE with tangible major league skills to get someone like Frazier. Also moving to Lawrie does not help the Sox (fielding is worse than Sanchez) and they still have holes in the OF. So at first blush I would say yes, but if Frazier can hit 270, 20 homers, and drive in 80 at third where the Sox have not had a guy like that since Crede then I guess it is worth it, as long as they can lock him up that is.
seamaholic 2
They gave up a lottery ticket arm who’s probably a reliever long-term, a 4th OF, and a nothingburger. So, no.
jedihoyer
lottery ticket arm means the pitcher is in the low minors. montas is also a top 50 prospect if still eligible.
garcia
Why not the Dodgers kept Frazier?
Another bad trade for the Dodgers…
mrshyguy99
well maybe because they dont have a need for 3rd like the soxs do. sure if they did get him they could of just more turner to 2nd. but i think they wanted movable prospects if they end up moving them. since dodgers are all about trading for prospect then using them in other trades
mrshyguy99
so dodgers trade a OF who has projects to hit for decent avg with some power for a OF who could be no better then a 4th OF. i guess the only bright side is the pitcher they got since the dodgers traded a 2nd baseman for a 2nd baseman who not that good at 2nd. i hope this trade for out for the dodgers unless these players will just be traded again
twitchwashere 2
Dang, I like what the Dodgers received in this deal way more than what the Reds got.
mrshyguy99
how so the dodgers got a good pitcher with control issues if not fix will be a pen arm, a 2nd baseman who struggles at 2nd and a OF who could be no better then a 4th OF who can play all 3 spots. while dodgers traded a decent 2nd baseman prospect, a OF with a decent bat and some pop and a throw in prospect. so i think reds got the better deal as of now. but who knows how things will go long term. heck if how the dodgers are i can see some of the players they got be use in another trade
BlueSkyLA
Now if they’d only solve a problem they actually have we’d be getting somewhere.
Rickey O'Sunnyvale
Seems Montas fits the bill very well as to what they need. A young controllable pitcher who hits 100 MPH. Best case, a #2 starter; more likely case a late inning reliever to bolster the back end of the bullpen and possibly replace Jansen as closer when Kenley hits free agency after this season.
BlueSkyLA
Young is not a need. Controllable is not a need. Hitting 100 MPH is not a need. The need is a RH starter for #2 slot. A setup man too? Sure, but does Montas have the control to be that pitcher? Unknown where he fits into this roster if anywhere. The need is also a starting 2B or at least someone who makes sense as a platoon with Utley. Jansen is an extension candidate, don’t you think?
gobraves46
What if the Dodgers used the prospects acquired for a Fernandez deal? I’m thinking it could look like this:
Dodgers get: Jose Fernandez,
Marlins get: Thompson, Grant Holmes, Jose deLeon, Carl Crawford(with lots of $$), and Cody Bellinger
Might cause a OF logjam in Miami, but Thoughts?
mrnatewalter
I doubt this trade changed Miami’s mind on their asking price for Fernandez.
A'sfaninUK
No one is taking Crawford or Ethier, stop it.
Puig on the other hand….
seamaholic 2
Marlins don’t trade Fernandez unless Seager or Urias is involved, period.
beyou02215
Miami was never really interested in trading Fernandez. They would want Seager.
A'sfaninUK
So no one’s bringing up Frazier’s career .830/.739 Home/Away split? That’s interesting….
Hey guys, Frazier’s not elite. At all. He has power and decent defense thats about it. He’s a good ballplayer and has value, but is just not worth a top 50 prospect in a trade. Reds got an everyday 2B to take over from Phillips and an everyday LF in Schleber. For 2 years of a guy who is wasted on a rebuilding team. It’s a fine return. If anything I think the White Sox gave up way too much to get him with who they sent to LA.
seamaholic 2
Agreed. People only seem to bother with home-road splits when talking about a Rockies player.
Frazier’s a good solid 3B who had an elite stretch for a first half of 2015, including the All-Star game. But away from Great American he’s probably not much more than league average hitter for a corner guy.
rayrayner
He’ll gets his dingers at the Cell.
seamaholic 2
Some, no doubt. But GABP is the best homer park in the majors.
chesteraarthur
“He’s a good ballplayer and has value, but is just not worth a top 50 prospect in a trade.”
Wait, what? He literally just got traded for one.
hanks1hammer
You are right, Fan. Just looked at his splits. In 2015 he had power on the road but resembles Pedro Alveraz who the Pirates didn’t resign. In 2014, Frazier had pretty good AVG/OBP but little power, and in 2013, his road stats are the worst of BOTH world’s.
Priggs89
29 homeruns is “little power”?
jedihoyer
and in 2012 he hit better on the road. people need to shut up about home road splits, the league average is over 20 points better at home, thats why teams win more at home, hence home field advantage. FFS it is the dumbest narrative.
beyou02215
That reply wasn’t intended for this post.
greatd
Seems like the consensus is that the Reds are dead last in this trade but
I think the Dodgers are the ones who clearly lost in this deal
Peraza stole more than 33 bases at triple A
Schebler hit 33 home runs in a single season in double A
These two guys have higher upsides than
Thompson never recorded a batting average over .261 in the minors.
Montas never pitched super well above single A.
Johnson never stole more than 28 bases above single A.
then the above three.
I think the clear winner is the White Soxs who didn’t give up a lot and
want to contend no matter what while Abreu and Sale are in their prime.
hanks1hammer
I agree. I don’t see the return in this for the Dodgers either
greatd
It’s rumored to be that Montas will be another piece
in an attempt to get Fernandez but I’d hate it if the Marlins decide not to trade him.
larkin9
The last comment brought up a good point about Frazier’s away splits being less than stellar. Another concern was his “Second half” stat line over the last 72 games. He hit 220/274/390 with a 664 OPS. Was it home run derby hangover? Injury? Streakiness? I am not sure. But a lot of people are saying the Reds did poorly on their return…. I think what they got was fair. I love Todd Frazier, and he still may be great outside of The Great American Ball-Park. But he’s not elite , and does not demand elite prospect packages.
jimmyz
Frazier killed the Pirates so I’m happy he’s out of the NL Central. I get why people think he’s a bit overrated but in the last 2-3 years when he was putting up his best numbers he had virtually no help in the Cincy lineup with down years from Bruce, Votto losing his power (though still getting on base) and Hamilton not getting on base enough. He’ll see a lot better pitches and fastballs to hit with Abreu behind him in the lineup
beyou02215
The Indians should have gone after Frazier. They have the pitching to compete now, and if they could have added that bat, watch out. They missed out.
hanks1hammer
Look at Frazier’s home/road splits. You’ll feel better about it after that.
chicubbies1
As a Cub fan this makes me happy. A team in our division IMO got worse as well will the WS. The prospects the Reds got don’t impress me, although I’ll admit Peraza is intriguing, but all he provides is speed and might hit for a good BA but have a OBP in the low 300s……. honestly though I see him being a marginally better hitter and essentially the same player as Billy Hamilton who the Reds already have….. you don’t need let alone want 2 of those kinds of guys on the same team. Hamilton’s hitting is so bad though he’s already pretty much played himself out of a starting gig and is destined for pinch running duties the rest of his likely short career. Won’t be floored if Peraza follows suit. The Sox get a .250 BA and .300-.320 OBP 3Bman who cost them 2 of the VERY few position player prospects they had, leaving pretty much only Tim Anderson left as the only Sox position prospect worth talking about. To me Todd Frazier is the second coming of Joe Crede, who while part of a World Series team in 2005…… was really nothing special. He had 3-4 good years and was quickly out of baseball by the age of 32.
Honestly, I think the Dodgers come out on top in this deal. They get a top pitching prospect in Montas, and get 2 somewhat interesting prospects in Thompson and Johnson. Of all the players though I think Frazier, obviously, and Montas will only be the 2 impactful major leaguers in this entire deal. Montas, quite possibly as a setup man/closer in the future…… don’t see him being a quality starter but a solid reliever.
BlueSkyLA
Montas looks like a work in progress. The heater as advertised, a good slider, but nothing much in the breaking/offspeed department, along with dirty mechanics and control issues.
greatd
The Reds are rebuilding of course they’re getting worse in the short term.
That’s their plan.
Plus what do you know about the White Sox to judge?
They clearly want to contend now when Sale and Abreu are in there primes.
It’s been a barren desert out there for years now.
At least there will be some production coming from the spot now.
Please don’t comment at all if you’re going to offend others
with un-insightful remarks.
mcdusty31
It would’ve been nice if we could’ve also got Klay Thompson in the deal so he can play for the Lakers and salvage our dumpster fire of a season so far
ourgiants25
This was either a dumb move or a panicky move by the Reds. Frazier wouldn’t have lost any value if the team had just held onto him until the trade deadline (assuming of course he didn’t put up a bad first half) because he still had another full year of control.
The Dodgers got a fair, but not spectacular, haul for Frazier, and the White Sox received in Frazier an elite defensive 3B for the next 2 years with great power (AVG 32 hrs per yr the last 2yrs) and all star potential.
The Reds? They got nothing special. Peraza could possibly be the most overrated prospect out there. All of Peraza’s value is tied to his youth, high likelihood of reaching his tiny ceiling, and average to slightly above average defense at many positions. A fair comparison of what the Reds got is essentially a POTENTIAL Omar infante (Peraza), a POSSIBLE Mark Trumbo (Schebler), along with a pinch-running speedster in Dixon.
Frankly, if the Reds waited they could’ve done much better.
wil1447
It’s hard for me to imagine this type of trade going down I can see them 3 matching up but the amount of players matching up. The Braves don’t won’t Alex wood back or Carl Crawford. I do not think joc Pederson and Corey seager will be in the same trade. Jose Reyes is not needed in LA or wanted in LA. Why would you send money owed to nick swisher to LA then LA turns right around and pays for Carl Crawford that makes no sense. I could see a lot of potential trades going with these 3 but the amount of players involved is just ridiculous maybe something on a smaller scale would work. Anyways I think all these teams could match up with any teams so it doesn’t really prove anything. I think if you want to propose a trade idea start on a smaller scale 25 players is just stupid to trade at once no way it will work
greatd
Not you again.
BlueSkyLA
Boo!
wil1447
Hahaha I know it’s a joke
greatd
Montas maybe the piece to go get Fernandez.
greatd
A bounce back season from Laroche / better season from Melky.
Might put the Sox back in the mix here.
jedihoyer
sooo who is their SS, avi in RF sucks, and they have a terrible bullpen other than robertson and nate jones if hes healthy.
southsidesox15
Terrible bullpen?
The Sox have actually one of the best. They just don’t have any big names.
The first few months the bullpen was mediocre but after making some minor moves it improve greatly. In the second half of the season, the WhSox were one of the best.
Priggs89
The bullpen was really bad in the beginning of the year, but injuries were a HUGE reason for that. Almost everyone was forced to start the year in a higher-leverage role than they were intended to be in. Then throw in all the new pieces, and it took a little time to figure everything out, which is completely understandable when you make a lot of changes. Once everyone was pushed back into their intended roles, they looked a heck of a lot better. Bullpen is definitely not one of their biggest concerns.
kkovo1029
White Sox will contend in 2016.
Priggs89
I can’t believe you actually took the time to write all of that nonsense.
wil1447
Yeah I thought about this long and hard for about 10 seconds to come to my conclusion and all I could do was laugh at the 25 player trade you thought of. Never in a billion years will this even come remotely close to this nobody wants that many people going in one trade alone. Just give up already everyone either hates hearing your crap or just laughs at it
dhud
Half the people saying White Sox gave up too much and half the people saying Reds clearly lost the trade, so do we think maybe there’s a possibility that the truth is somewhere in the middle and this could actually have been a fair trade??
Lance
the “truth” is we won’t be able to judge this trade for another 3-4 years. the reds sucked this year so they have to stockpile young talent to rebuild. it looks like the market for Bruce is pretty soft and I can’t think of any teams in baseball who would want to take on Chapman now, even if he threw 115 MPH.