Manny Ramirez has agreed to terms with the A's on a minor league deal, the team announced today. The deal is worth about $500K in the Majors, reports ESPN's Pedro Gomez. The signing has been expected for several weeks. Though the story is interesting, the A's took an insignificant financial risk and didn't commit a roster spot, and the likely reward is small as well. Ramirez is represented by Praver/Shapiro.
Manny must first serve a 50-game suspension for violating MLB's performance-enhancing drug policy a second time, making his earliest possible debut June 2nd at Kansas City, according to Gomez. Ramirez retired when news of the suspension hit in April of last year, but was reinstated in December.
Ramirez, 39, would be a certain Hall of Famer if not for his PED issues. He owns a .312/.411/.585 line with 555 home runs in 19 seasons for the Indians, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox, and Rays. He's projected to serve as the A's designated hitter for the latter two-thirds of the season.
Jon Heyman of CBS Sports was the first to report that the agreement had been made (both Twitter links).
Billy Beane you are such a weirdo.
Moneyball: Part 2. Starring Yoenis Cespedes and Manny Ramirez!
adapt or die
Tagline: The Ego has Landed.
Scott Boras already owns Moneyball 2: the art of over-selling players.
as opposed to all the other agents who cut deals with clubs because they don’t like commission all that much
The Sarcasm Detector just exploded.
david justice 2.0
More like Frank Thomas 2.0.
I’d rather have Frank Thomas than Manny. He’ll be 40 this season, hasn’t played a season without injuries or suspension since 2008, and will miss the first 50 games.
Is there any more upside for this than to invite Pedro Martinez to camp to be a 5th starter candidate? If I was an Athletics fan, I’d rather just let them give at bats to Brandon Allen and Chris Carter, and don’t waste my time with this.
When the A’s signed Frank Thomas, he was coming off a 34 game season in which he batted 219. The season before, he played 74 games. The premise is the same: taking a flier on a hall of fame hitter with no defensive value on a contract so small, he can be cut without a second thought. Not that I imagine Manny working out nearly as well.
(It is fun to see that Thomas managed to slug 590 while batting 219. Small sample, but that’s extraordinary.)
At least Frank Thomas didn’t have any outstanding off-field issues, and was still impressive in that small sample size. That was an example of a contending team hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, and they did.
I’m not trying to rain on the A’s parade, but what is their to be gained from having ~100 games of a 40 year old Manny? There’s no real downside, but again, I look at the A’s roster and I see more useful ways to utilize those at-bats on a team that isn’t expected to contend.
Totally sympathetic to your point of view, but I think the possibility of flipping him if he plays well is non-zero. Plus, getting that much publicity for half a million is probably worth considering for a non-contending team. I’d be more offended by the signing if I thought any of their young DH options was that great.
Agreed this is a waste from a man who usually thinks abstractly but smartly. Disappointed as a life long a’s fan
I agree, I would rather see Carter get at bats. I bet Manny quits before his 50 games is up, and won’t see a MLB at bat
No.
If not for Manny, Gomes and Smith would be splitting AB’s at DH. Carter is “competing” with the other AAAA’s (Barton, kila and Allen) for the 1B job. The losers will be either released or sent to the A’s AAAA affiliate in Sacramento.
Beane needs to evaluate why we can’t develop hitters, and change what is happening… and so far its because he doesnt give them a chance. he lets our young pitchers go at it, and it works… why not give the guys a chance to hit. let the young guys all play for a full season and see what happens, there is a learning curve.
Carter’s defense is the worst of all the guys competing for 1B in spring – by far. He’s competing for the DH job. The only way he plays first base is if he is hitting too good to be benched when Ramirez comes back from the 50 games and he forces the A’s hand.
This is a brilliant move. This gives Carter a kick in the butt and says to him, you have 50 games to show us you have something and that might be the kick he needs to actually get his career rolling. It’s a minor league deal for Manny. If Carter starts crushing the ball then no harm done Manny gets cut. If Carter still doesn’t show anything then you insert Manny.
Signing Manny does serve as motivation for Carter. But as long as Manny looks good in spring and on his 10-day rehab assignment just before the suspension is over, they won’t cut him even if Carter is tearing the cover off the ball as a DH the first 50 games. Manny will have a lot of trade value at the deadline if he is hitting good. They can get another prospect for him. If Carter earnes playing time, they’ll insert him at first base. I wouldn’t be surprised if they put Manny in left field and Carter at DH if, in fact, Carter is hitting too good to be benched. Not holding my breath, though. Carter hasn’t showed anthing yet, other than two moonshot homeruns in between a bunch of K’s.
Or he’ll use drugs again, like he did the first three times.
Frank Thomas helped the A’s in 2006. He was not a dud. Since then, the A’s have not been anywhere near as close to succeeding.
“Deal has major incentives if Manny doesn’t take estrogen”
Why
Why not? It’s a hair over the minimum.
*dread
Well played.
Mo’ Manny, mo’ problems…
Yes Mannys back , this is good for entertainment if nothing else!
anyone know the exact date manny becomes eligible?
It says up there…June 2nd.
they edited the article since I posted
June 2nd against KC, barring rainouts per ESPN.
lucky for him he gets 10 spring training games to get back into the swing of things. hopefully this time around he will get his act together and finish his career off on a good note.
So despite the 50 game suspension, can he still participate in exhibitions games in Spring Training? Or is he also not allowed to participate in those?
He is allowed to participate in spring training and gets something like 10 rehab games before his suspension is up to be ready.
And he gets to work out with the team before games and he gets to participate in extended Spring Training games.
apparently he also gets to go to japan and play against any japanese team they may face
So does that mean he can still be in the dugout during games during the regular season he’s not in? Does he have to be out there? Because knowing Manny, he would probably want to do his own thing.
No he has to leave the stadium before the gates open for fans.
I believe he can participate in Spring games, and I seem to remember him getting a couple games in the minors before his suspension was up, back when he played with the Dodgers.
sigh…it was inevitable, but ugh, hopefully carter or kila do good enough to cut him
The only problem I can see with this deal is that at some point, they need to try to see if they have anything in Carter and Allen, which is already a little tricky with Barton still around.
didnt the A’s put barton up for trade? or are they asking for to much in return for him? he has alittle pop on his bat, id like him as a yankee over chavez although they wanted chavez to play 3B on days Arod needed a day off or hurt.
Nothing tricky, really. Barton, Allen, Kila and Stone Hands will compete for the 1B job (well, the one’s BB hasn’t released yet will). Competition is good, and AAAA’s like Carter and Allen will have to EARN their roster spots rather than have them handed to them. Personally, I’m rooting for Kila.
It’s amazing how many A’s fans keep crying over Chris Carter, when a much better, skilled, harder worker like Colin Cowgill is also being nudged out by the numbers game.
The King of Kings is back! Manny “John McClane” Ramirez!
Someone told him to “come out to the coast, get together, have a few laughs” and look what happened.
I have no doubt Manny could have diffused the bomb on the roof. He is good at relays.
They tried to get his gun and his shield but Manny don’t do it by the book!
I was expecting a uehara deal to come first but i guess not, hopefully that happens soon too
In other news, the A’s are still not very good.
if you play the game on paper……
Or on a baseball diamond
If Ty Cobb (evil racist) and Gaylord Perry (wrote a book on how he cheated at baseball) are in the HOF – then Manny Ramirez should be in the HOF
I am kinda curious what the votes will look like in 15 years. The stories are that guys like Clemens and Bonds took steroids too lengthen their careers. They were probably Hall bound without the steroids.
The Hall already has cheaters and mediocre players… just saying, 15 years might change things.
Also: Offense went down when amphetamines were banned, not when steroid testing got more strict. Maybe a couple of guys who juiced are in the hall, but TONS of guys who took pills are in the hall.
True story. According to Jim Bouton, nearly everybody in the majors took “greenies” regularly in his day. Maybe the entire HOF deserves an asterisk.
Well what about McGwire, Palmeiro, Bonds, etc.?
HOF, HOF, HOF.
You need to consider players within the context of their era, and all four of these gentleman were undoubtedly the best of their era.
McGwire, in particular, is easy – HGH was not even explicitly banned when he played. He’s being punished retrospectively for a rule that wasn’t even in place yet.
There is no “pure” baseball. Babe Ruth didn’t play against minorities, think that juiced his numbers? As michael mentioned, greenies were all over baseball in the 20th century. For that matter, Willie Mays was an excellent sign stealer – isn’t cheating, cheating?
Enough with the revisionist puritan history, in my opinion – the Hall of Fame should have the best of the best.
Bad comparison. Ruth played under the same conditions as the rest of the league, whereas PED users gained an unfair advantage over those in the league who didn’t use. Unless you are proposing that every single player drawing an MLB salary during those years was on steroids, HGH, or both.
I think Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige would argue that Ruth had a decidedly unfair advantage. He was allowed to play, while they were not. Some players had it in their favor (white), and some did not (non-white).
Without that advantage, I find it hard to believe Ruth would have put up the numbers he did. Yet he was obviously one of the best of that era – and in my mind a clear HOF’er.
Likewise, there is no doubt that Barry Bonds would not have put up the numbers he did without his unfair advantage. Some used that unfair advantage (juicers), and some did not. Yet Bonds was obviously one of the best of his era – and in my mind a clear HOF’er.
So the fact that he might have faced a few more good pitchers would have impacted his numbers so much? I never quite understood the whole blacks were allowed to play argument against babe.
Give the race baiting a rest, will ya. Ruth is the gold standard because he not only transformed the game (and saved it) with his prodigious hitting, he was also one of the best pitchers of the dead ball era. And, I say that as a fan of Paige and Gibson.
I don’t see how you could interpret this as race baiting.
I completely agree with every one of your points on Ruth. No question there. He’s the greatest player in history.
However, I also think Big Mac saved the game (in ’98), and that Barry Bonds also transformed it with his prodigious hitting, and that both, also, deserve to be in the HOF.
Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you on McGwire, Bonds IF you add in Sammy Sosa and Clemens.
You’re missing the key point: Ruth’s numbers were as legit as any other MLB player of his era. We’re more than in agreement that it’s a disgrace that guys like Paige and Gibson weren’t allowed to play in the league, but my point was that it was an even playing field for all the players in the league. It’s not like the rest of the league had to play against Gibson and Paige but Ruth didn’t.
What about Rose?
Put him in! His accolades as a player are no brainer HOF status.
I forget who wrote the article a few years back that changed my attitude on Roiders in the HOF, but their argument was that the HOF is like a history museum for baseball. The goal should be to tell the story of baseball from inception to present. If someone walked in to Cooperstown without knowing a single thing about baseball, they should have a pretty good idea of the history of the sport after that.
So put McGwire, Bonds, Palmeiro, Rose, Manny, et al, in the HOF. And put right there on the plaque, “Failed drug testing for steroids” or whatever “offense” they violated.
Here’s the problem with that line of thinking: There’s also a Hall of Fame museum. It’s OK for Roger Maris to not be in the Hall of Fame. There’s the museum. Same for Jim Abbot, Fernando Valenzuela, and many others who tell the story of the game without being all-time greats.
I agree with Alex, although Rose is a much harder decision for me than the steroid guys.
Shoeless Joe Jackson also makes it into my HOF.
Gambling is a much greater threat to the game than PEDs. Plus he explicitly broke a rule that carried the punishment of a lifetime ban. Most of the most prominent steroid users were using before steroids were even banned by MLB.
Wait until he’s dead, then reconsider.
Seriously, I think that this should be a legitimate standard for people who have violated such serious rules. Wait until they’re dead so that they can’t get any benefit or joy out of a potential induction. Then after they’re dead, hold an HOF induction vote.
Your reasoning is the same that most people like to use for defending inducting cheaters into the HOF. However history is full of people whose deeds were once glorified despite bad things they did (i.e.: American presidents who were slave owners) and today it is openly acknowledged that these things were wrong. Society now has new laws and standards for conduct and the old ways are viewed as what they are — wrong (or at least outdated) — and cast aside.
So my point is that although Baseball folks don’t like change, history shows that as much as we may try to pretend, nothing really stays the same – not even Baseball. People learn from mistakes and old outworn standards are done away with. So perpetuating old ways just for the sake of appearing to be fair, or trying to keep things the same is misguided and a bit childish, and enough cheating has already been rewarded that Baseball should know better by now.
So instead of clinging to the idea of inducting cheaters into the HOF, the flaws in the old ways of inducting players should be openly acknowledged for what they were and set aside, and a new chapter should begin where known cheaters are not tolerated. It’s time to move on.
.
Well said.
I understand the argument and respect it – I just respectfully disagree.
If I were voting today fresh and anew: Would I put George Washington into my Hall of Presidents?
Heck yes.
Do i condone, in any way, shape, or form his slave-owning?
Absolutely not.
But taken within the context of his era, (where this horrible deed was considered acceptable) George Washington was undoubtedly the best president of his era.
You would honestly prefer a Hall of Presidents where George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are excluded? What’s the point?
That’s not what he meant at all. I think you missed the part about “starting a new chapter” where these things aren’t tolerated any longer. The old HOFers would still stand, but new standards would determine how new players would be inducted today.
You would honestly prefer a Hall of Presidents where George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are excluded? What’s the point?
For me “the point” is getting it right — not having significant transgressions overlooked just to be able to proclaim greatness and have a feel-good. There’s a difference.
Besides, what I am talking about is not unheard of. Cheaters in other sports are either stripped of their accolades or don’t receive them in the first place. So for Baseball to take up a similar standard is not a far-fetched idea. As such, I think the time has come for a new standard for the HOF to be established from this day on.
Anyway, thanks for the exchange. : )
Again, this is a baseball forum—please save your race baiting nonsense for Daily Kos or Huffpo.
How in the world is that race baiting?
Apparently slavery is still a hot button issue with some people.
Sigh. If racism was a determining factor of hall entrance a century ago it wouldn’t have very many members. Cobb was the greatest pure hitter of all time. Bad person for sure, but he belongs in the Hall. Manny? Not so much.
So Manny’s numbers are entirely a product of performance enhancing drugs? A man with 555 career home runs and a .312/.411/.585 triple slash would’ve been reduced to “good” rather than great?
Half of the pitchers Manny was facing were also synthetically enhancing their game. It’s not as if he was up there hacking against a group of players who were substance free.
The Hall of Fame is riddled with pitchers who doctored the ball in any way that they could. Back then, that was just the way the game worked. Fans today turn a blind eye to those issues because they’re no longer prevalent in today’s game and it was the norm. Why is there a different precedent for players who used PEDs?
I can understand a more borderline case like Palmeiro, but to suggest that Manny Ramirez isn’t one of the greatest hitters we’ll ever see in our lifetimes — with or without PEDs — is a ludicrous statement.
this is the best argument available..
People think that steroids turn a nothing hitter in to an HOFer
its just not the case, they help for sure, but the talent and skill have to be there already…
Did Arod hit a few more HR’s while on juice? yea he did.. did he still hit 40+ with out it? yah he did.
And beyond that, isn’t “quality of character” something that voters are supposed to consider when considering players for the Hall of Fame?
What kind of character was Cobb? A man who assaulted a groundskeeper and then choked that man’s wife when she tried to intervene?
Someone of that despicable nature is praised and rewarded with baseball immortality, but Manny, Bonds, etc. are condemned for keeping up with the rest of the league when substance abuse ran wild?
I don’t condone what they did. But then again, I don’t condone what the league as a WHOLE was doing. I’ll hate Barry Bonds forever for the greed it takes to be one of the ten greatest talents in baseball history and decide “That’s not good enough.” As someone who would give anything for even a quarter of that talent, it’s infuriating when I try to comprehend how one could think like that.
But I’m not stubborn enough to let that anger prevent me from seeing that several of these players were Hall of Fame talents, with or without artificial enhancements.
Anyone else find it ironic that the ATHLETICS of all teams signed Manny?
He gets on base.
how is it ironic? are you listening to Alanis Morrisette again?
It’d be hilarious if he gets caught using PEDs again. I’d like to see a lifetime baseball ban.
Yeah, we’d be all be in stitches.
Darn, I was hoping the Rays would get him back.
Fun tweet from Christina Kahrl: “Manny joins #Athletics, where Kong, Reggie, Don Baylor, Dusty Baker & John Jaha ended their careers. Will he sell more tix than they did?”
The only things this teaches us is you can do something wrong and if you wait long enough your punishment will diminish. He should still have to serve 100 game suspenson
I thought your 2nd violation was supposed to be 100 games..how and why is the 1st and 2nd the same amount of time.
he took all of last year off after he got caught, so since that was something like 150 games, his suspension is reduced to 50 games
Will anyone go see an A’s game this year?
i will for sure, i see about 15-20 games a season
Yep, probably around 1.4 million will. Of course, it may well be the same 18,000 showing up each game, but …
I usually go to between 10 -15 a year. Same thing this year – no matter how much they stink. I was once a batboy for the A’s (1991), so it’s in my blood. Go A’s!
I tip my cap to you. Btw will you also be going to see the San Jose A’s?
Baltimore breathes a sigh of relief.
The A’s are only risking 500K on Manny, no big deal. Beane actually made a smart decision with the salary because 500K is about what manny is worth right now.
+1.
+1.
Since that’s obviously the most that anyone would pay for him, you are obviously right.
Which of these will get to Manny First? Oakland’s Marijuana clinics or Him seeking out the Bash Brothers Roid distributer? I’m going 50% 50% on this one
*chirp*chirp*
nice dude
Over-under on number of games Manny plays with the A’s next season: 35.
Over-under on number of games Manny plays with the A’s next season: 35.
I understand the negativity and jokes and what-not, the dude pretty much deserves all of it, but I can’t help but think the guy could quite easily put up a .280/.380/.430 line at this point. Not an elite hitter anymore but above average for sure. The first two months of the season go to Carter or Kila, if when Manny is ready to come back one of them is producing, they cut Manny. If not, Manny plays. Is a 500K investment in one of the games most elite hitters in the past 15 years really that big of a deal?
I just don’t see much, if any risk involved with this deal. And surely nothing to justify all the Beane haters wonderful contributions to this thread. If Cespedes and Manny hit, the A’s all of a sudden become a pretty solid team. If not, no harm no foul.
*Slow sarcastic clapping*
So let me get this straight, manny is a cheater yes but you are getting one of the best hitters this generation has seen for a last hurah for ALL of 500,000k for 112 games and people are whining? I fail to see how this is anything but a win for the A’s when other stars past their prime are asking for way more even when you take into account he is only playing 66% of the season.
no way a 40 year old Manny can play 112 games…
Never said he could, just that you are getting him for 112 games for 500k. I mean it doesnt matter how many games of that he actually plays they still have the right to use him for 112 games. Just like the Tigers have JV for 162 games but only use him 30-35 times.
fair point, but I don’t think he’ll play in more than 60 games due to age. he got off easy when Selig cut his suspension in half. should be 100 games. as it is, he’s still an albatross but to a far lesser extent because (a) he is suspended for 50 games and (b) he’s a bad seed and will pout about not playing.
The a’s needed a bat anyway
hence why we traded for seth smith and josh reddick, and signed cespedes and jonny gomes.
we also have carter/kila/brandon allen, who could put up good numbers if handled right
“Handled right” meaning babied and allowed to suck at the major league level for extended periods. Allen got a loooong look last year, played every day for two months +. He had a fast start and then completely disappeared the last six weeks. He’s AAAA all the way.
Note how Weeks, Pennington, Sizemore and the pitchers had to earn their positions. Now, I will grant you Bobo was a clueless manager, but Carter has been mostly a big zero in two chances. Kila is 27 and on his what? 5th team? You’re meme doesn’t hold up to factual scrutiny no matter how often you and the other Beane mis-understander’s spin it.
after those first 33 crappy at bats in which the majority of his K’s came, chris carter then took off and belted 3 home runs and hit for a higher average in the last couple weeks of 2010, i’m sure you probably forgot, so how do you know that’s not what he really is? i’m just saying that because it sounds like you consider brandon allen’s icy cold streak to be who he really is. carter’s always been a slow starter, even in AAA and AA. in 2011, he got a game here, then another game there, 2 in one week, then maybe 1 more in another week, i’m pretty sure that’s not giving him a fair chance to prove himself.
Billy Beane’s mind is a scary place.
That’s usually the case when you’re dealing with genius-level intelligence—the common mind doesn’t get it.
I love this move… It Will put Kila, Carter or any other DH on the hot seat knowing that Manny is the front runner after 50 games… Kila or Carter might actually put up huge numbers… Who knows? Great move Billy… I also believe this is for Cespedes… What other Latin players are on the A’s that are not pitchers? hmm lol Manny will be help Cespedes fit in and give him advice… 😀 Can not wait for the A’s season!!!!!! lol
Ahh the A’s, where so many old timers go to die and never be heard from again.
oh yes thank god the Orioles stayed away from this one..
Goodluck man-ram
My question is why baseball would reelect a bone head commissioner who has DESTROYED the game. Bud Selig continues to be the worst commis in baseball history….