Here are some notes from George A. King III of The New York Post…
- “I am ready to rock and roll," said Yankees GM Brian Cashman while acknowledging that he still isn't optimistic about making a major pitching addition. "The Yankees are open for business."
- An NL executive heard that the Rangers have interest in signing Prince Fielder and trading Mitch Moreland to the Rays for Wade Davis. A person with knowledge of Texas' plans say neither scenario is close to being done, however. The Rangers checked in with Scott Boras about Fielder during the winter meetings.
- The Rangers also have interest in Casey McGehee of the Brewers to play first base, which would still allow them to make the Moreland-for-Davis swap. Matt Moore's new extension means the Rays won't have to send him down to the minors for service time reasons, giving them six starters (David Price, James Shields, Jeff Niemann, Jeremy Hellickson, Moore, and Davis) for five spots.
If I was the Rangers I’d have interest in trading Moreland for David too. The interest wouldn’t be mutual.
deal moreland, martin and engel beltre to A’s for gio then you guys can go out and get fielder
Sounds like a pipe dream…
Bailey for Moreland…if we sign Fielder.
I wish. Doubt the A’s would take that little for one of their few trade chips though.
I don’t think it will take that much more than Moreland. Moreland + a mid level prospect. Moreland is a power hitting young and controlable player with about 4-5 years of control. Bailey is a very good relief pitcher headed into his 1st year of arbitration.
I don’t think it will take that much more than Moreland. Moreland + a mid level prospect. Moreland is a power hitting young and controlable player with about 4-5 years of control. Bailey is a very good relief pitcher headed into his 1st year of arbitration.
I think it’s funny the Rangers are going after Fielder….just because the Angels got Pujols. The last thing they need is more offense. What they *really* need is starting pitching.
If the Rangers sign Fileder you can kiss Hamilton goodbye.
Not exactly. It all depends on the contracts for both. Hamilton’s value should be in the 5 year 16-17 mil per year simply because of his age and injury history. If the Rangers sign Fielder at 6/120 I don’t see that playing a major negative factor in signing Hamilton or the rest of the core. It will have an impact mind you, just not as significant as some would believe. Of course this all depends on the Fielder contract being 6/120…
If fielder was going for 6/120 he’d be re-signed with the Brewers already, he’s looking for 25 per season.
Maybe maybe not. All Boras’ clients test the market. Fielder wasn’t too happy in Milwakee either. 6/160 isn’t much worse, though it does hurt the chances of core signings more.
If Boras gets Fielder a 6 year deal its going to be 6 years at 165
Really? You’re going to quibble about an extra 5mil on the deal? If Anyone is in on Fielder at 6/160 an extra 5 won’t break the deal.
thats a 15 mil difference boss
6/160 is 15mil less than 6/165? I’m not math wizard or anything, but I think that’s only 5 milllion difference “boss.”
lol you had 6/150 there at first dingbat. way to edit your post
True Story.
Dingbat….Classic.
Anyway you want to look at it 6/150 to 6/165 is only a 2.5 average per year salary increase…still quibbling when you get down to the numbers.
Why wasn’t Fielder happy? He seemed to love it there and is a perfect fit there.
He loved it so much that he didn’t offer a “hometown” discount…nor has he signed with them.
Im starting to believe there is no such thing as a “hometown discount”
This may be true. Though Lee did sign one with the Phillies.
True.
you could call it hometown discount but Philadelphia wasn’t and isn’t his hometown. It’s Cleveland.
Notice hometown in “s…
See Weaver, Jered.
See Wood, Kerry.
its one thing to test the market. its another to be unhappy
I dont see Fielder signing a 6 year deal.. Im sure Boras wont stop untill he gets at least 8 years min
AA in Toronto is on record as saying he liked the money, but not the years, or he liked the years, but not the money. If Fielder is being offered 6 years – 25M, he would be all over that without blinking an eye. He doesn’t want to get trapped into 7 – 8 year deals that could handicap his team. Six years is current with the other players he signs, Bautista – 6 years, Lind – 6 years, Romero 6 years, Escobar 5 years, etc. I can see a Fielder 6 years – 25M going north. If Texas or anyone else wants him, they will have to offer at least a 180 – 6 year contract.
Why? The Rangers have a ton of money from that FoxSports deal to play with. Just because the Cards couldn’t keep Pujols…not every team fails at keeping their core players.
Thats not what Im saying and my comment did not come for bitterness over the Pujols loss… Im thinking that if they sign Fileder, Hamilton will probably sign elsewhere next year because the last thing that team would need is offense. I would imagine they would look at pitching next year if thet really think they need Prince Fielder.
Might not be the worst thing. His history doesn’t scream ‘will age well’. How much, and how long, do they offer Hamilton??
The Rangers were probably waiting for Pujols to sign…wherever to gauge the market for Fielder. I doubt the Rangers will sign Fielder unless it is for 7 years or less–Boras won’t go for that. As for pitching, they’ll try for Darvish and obviously have trade plans if that fails. It could be Garza or maybe Wandy from the Astros or even Big Z…who knows?
Darn you beat me Rabbitov… Hmmm interesting.
Anyway, didn’t someone interview Nolan Ryan the other week and I thought he clearly stated that he really didn’t have any interest in Prince Fielder and expressed continued support for Mitch Moreland. Of course this is before Moreland had what?? wrist surgery. Anyway, The Rangers are still the class of the division. I am not really down with the Angels. Sure, they are flashing a lot of cash and I am still not impressed with Dipoto! Although needless to say Duquette has shown nothing like a lot of my horses that I bet at the track (My Edit)! Oh I am a discouraged Orioles fan!
I pretty much agreed with you until your shot at Duquette. I think he gave up too much for Teagarden, but what has he really done that was incompetent thus far?
He’s not Pat Gillick. Amirite Lefty!?!?
You guys are both after me LOL. Oh well I should expect that by now. I wasn’t happy with the production in Dallas and I certainly wasn’t happy with the Eveland trade. Duquette gave up too much. I would have given the Dodgers nothing and they would have liked it!
As far as I’m concerned we did give the Dodgers nothing. I just don’t see what he’s done that rises to the level of incompetence.
Ok, I changed it…Don’t expect to see that too often =P! Maybe, I originally wrote it because I want to see something happen for once that makes sense to me.
Lefty all I can ask is that you be yourself ;-).
I’m with Rabbitov here. I actually really like Eveland (for some reason) and we gave the Dodgers nada. I woul’ve liked to see the O’s keep Miclat but hey, I’d rather have teagarden.
Also, I hope Dan D. moves Givens to the mound. We have enough cruddy middle infield prospects.
Ps – You know we love giving you a hard time about your affinity for Pat Gillick :p
The rangers continued to say Moreland was their guy until the Angels signed Pujols and Wilson. This new trade rumor might be in reaction to that.
Pitching wins, and the Angels have the pitching to beat the Rangers.
Was Cashman not “ready to rock and roll” or “open for business” before now?
He was hibernating. Those hotel beds at the Winter Meetings were awesome!
Oh Brian Cashman and his mixed signals.
“Rock n Roll”.. well lets go.. lets see some action.. man I wish the Winter Meetings were 2 weeks long
I’d be pumped if we got Mitch Moreland, but what about Kotchman?
That Cashman quote sounds like he was waiting for Darvish to be posted since Yanks didn’t need Fielder/Pujols, and didn’t want CJ Wilson/closers.
That Cashman quote sounds like “Okay, I’m ready. So when does this offseason thing get started?”
I agree… they actually turned down Wilson’s “request” for a meeting… note… the only team Wilson “requested” to have a meeting with that we know of
now Darvish is set to be posted and we are “open for ‘business?” .. coincidence? I think not
I wish the Yankees “All the Happiness in the World” if you get Darvish.
The Yankees deserve him! =P
If I am the Orioles, I would kick the tires on Kuroda instead.
I don’t think Kuroda would sign with the Orioles…and if so it would be for a lot more than 12 M
Well so be it. If it’s a one year deal then 12 M
However, I would offer him exactly what Chris Carpenter got 2 yr / 21 m
The Yanks need a short stop.
cardinals need to do something and hope its not rollins, would like cuddyer however, and another bat, moeland or thumbo, now that they got albert!!!
You don’t want Rollins yet you want Ludwick part 2?
Luddy isnt coming back
Cashman……Jurrjens for Gardner and Nuñez…..
i like
Doubt that would be enough for one of the top pitchers from last year.
you have to be kidding. That is more than enough. I doubt yanks offer that much.
A speedy outfielder with a solid bat and a utility infielder? For one of the best pitchers for last year? If the Braves wanna sell that low for him go for it. Seems to me they’d be wasting an opportunity to ask for the moon like most other teams with a top pitcher do.
the braves would accept that trade before cashman could even say “and nunez”
Juurjens is a top pitcher?
Gardner is a good looking player. He is very fast, plays good defense, and is becoming a good hitter, would replace Bourn as leadoff hitter and CF in 2013 and can play in LF in 2012.
And Nuñez super utility, SS, 3B, 2B, LF, RF. Good bench player, Jurrjens hasn’t been healthy the last 2 seasons, I think that would be a great move IMO
Gardner is a good looking player. He is very fast, plays good defense, and is becoming a good hitter, would replace Bourn as leadoff hitter and CF in 2013 and can play in LF in 2012.
And Nuñez super utility, SS, 3B, 2B, LF, RF. Good bench player, Jurrjens hasn’t been healthy the last 2 seasons, I think that would be a great move IMO
So your telling me a guy who can be a stud lead-off man and a young infielder who has a ton of speed and pop in his bat wouldn’t fetch a injury plagued talented young starter? Oh I must be a fool
The pop may be Yankee stadium aided, he wouldn’t hit 7 HR in the NL, but I love his OBP
So your telling me a guy who can be a stud lead-off man and a young infielder who has a ton of speed and pop in his bat wouldn’t fetch a injury plagued talented young starter? Oh I must be a fool
Yankees would be ripping off the Braves, if that were to happen.
Gardner is fast and not much else.
Nunez is a good fielder, but he has no arm!
You’re completely backwards. Gardner isn’t just fast. He’s also the best defensive OF’er in baseball and has great plate discipline.
See the….
.364 OBP over the last 2 years? That ranks him 11th among Of’ers.
See the….
50.7 UZR over the last 2 years? That ranks him #1 by a wide margin.
See the….
11.3 WAR over the last 2 years? That ranks him 5th overall among OF’ers
See the…
96 SB over the last 2 years? That ranks him 2nd AMONG ALL PLAYERS.
Gardner’s skill set ranges beyond “just being fast”.
As for Nunez, you have it backwards again. He has a very strong arm. His range is average at best probably. He just made too many dumb mental errors last years, especially on throws.
That being said, Gardner for Jurrjens is an overpay, at least from the Yanks perspective. Maybe if JJ managed to stay healthy over the last 2 years things might be different, but right now he isn’t dependable enough to risk the Yanks creating a hole in LF.
You should be his agent…. Lol.
Look at this:
Through age 25
Greg Maddux had pitched in
– 177 Games
– 1174 IP
– 75-64 W-L
– 3.61 ERA
– 5.66 K/9
– 2.95 BB/9
– Jair Jurrjens has pitched in
– 115 Games
– 702.1 IP
– 50-33 W-L
– 3.40 ERA
– 6.15 K/9
– 3.10 BB/9
-Obviously this are different times, different strike zone, pitchers don’t go as deep, W-L record is a crappy stat to evaluate a player but judging both pitchers peripherals you can’t deny the similarities you see. Jurrjens also pitches in Maddux style, 2 seam fastball, slider, and a great change up. Control sinker-baller type. Jurrjens drop in velocity this year was “planned” to have more control, so he started throwing his fastball 86-92mph, instead of 90-94mph.
– Now Maddux and Jurrjens have one fundamental difference, and that is health. Maddux never went on the DL his whole career, JJ has been injured the last two seasons, most recently by a nagging knee injury that isn’t supposed to be a big deal and quite honestly much less serious than a shoulder or any other arm problems, because as a pitcher, he won’t have long term side effects.So, do you think it is a fair trade to get Jurrjens who will only make around 5 million next year for Brett Gardner(who is very similar to Michael Bourn and under team control for the next 3-4 years), and a backup utility player in Eduardo Nuñez…..
I am backwards, I am Lefty! =P
You should be his agent….Lol
Look at this:
Through age 25:
Greg Maddux vs Jair Jurrjens
177 Games 115 Games
1174 IP 702.1 IP
75-64 W-L 50-33 W-L
3.61 ERA 3.40 ERA
5.66 K/9 6.15 K/9
2.96 BB/9 3.10 BB/9
Obviously this are different times, different strike zone, pitchers don’t go as deep as they used to, W-L is a crappy stat to evaluate a pitcher, but you can’t deny how similar these two pitchers are in ERA, K/9, and BB/9. Jair Jurrjens also has the same style, a 2 seam fastball that he threw 90-94mph but had a “planned” drop in velocity to 86-92mph, a good slider, and a devastating change up as ground ball/control pitcher.
Now they do have one fundamental difference, Maddux never went on the DL his whole career and Jurrjens hasn’t been entirely healthy the last two seasons, most recently because a nagging knee injury which quite honestly isn’t as big of a concern as a shoulder or elbow injury would be since it shouldn’t have long term side effects.
So, I do think Jair Jurrjens for Brett Gardner and Eduardo Nuñez is a fair trade since Brett Gardner is under team control for the next 3-4 years like you said is one of the best defenders in LF and good in CF, and could be the next Carl Crawford/ Michael Bourn type that could lead the league in stolen bases, and leadoff with good OBP’s. And Eduardo Nuñez a quality backup utility player that can play SS, something ATL is looking for. Yankees gamble on Jurrjens health who is only 25 with a nagging knee injury, but could be the next Greg Maddux……….
lol what a comparison..
Had greg maddux stayed with those numbers, he’d hardly be considered one of the greats
Maddux from age 25-32 was unreal, performance levels that Jurrjens has no chance of achieving.
1995- Maddux
19-2, 1.63 ERA, 181 k/ 23 bb. 7.87 so/k , 0.3 hr/9
Maddux was worth 54 WAR from 92-98, 7.6 WAR/ Season. Jurrjens peak WAR so far has been 3.9.
In short, you took a very simplistic comparison and are making JJ out to be something he’s not. He has no chance of putting up the numbers maddux did from age 25-32.. If there was a chance, yankees would probably be more inclined to move gardner.
but as it stands right now, Gardner is FAR more valuable than JJ
That’s my point, JJ isn’t even in his prime which is 25-32, and in some numbers he is actually better than what Maddux was by his age 25 season.
I’m not predicting JJ is going to be HOF pitcher, I mean nobody can do that, but you’ve got to realize there was some debate if he should have started the ASG this year instead of Roy Halladay, he was that good in the first half. 16 starts 12-3 with a 1.87 ERA in 110.2 IP. And in 2009 he was 4th in Cy Young voting with a 14-10 record 215 IP 2.60 ERA.
This guy is a good pitcher, and for the Yankees to get a proven pitcher only estimated to making 5 million and under team control for 2 more years has to be more valuable than a LF that they could sign in FA any offseason.
Young quality pitchers are tougher to find in FA. Yankees could easily sign Carlos Beltran to play LF for instance and offensively that would be an upgrade over Gardner, but who could they sign to pitch? Yu Darvish? (tell me a quality SP from Japan apart from Kuroda that has had more than 5 quality seasons in mlb?) Igawa, Matsuzaka, Kawakami, they all suck, they work as relievers not as starters. And after Darvish, Roy Oswalt who is done, Edwin Jackson? I mean come on
want to play a comparison game? you like those. last 3 seasons
FIP-
jurrjens 98
jackson 92
ERA-
jurrjens 81
jackson 83
SIERA
jurrjens 4.42
jackson 4.06
tERA
jurrjens 4.27
jackson 3.93
IP – WAR
jurrjens 483 – 6.0
jackson 623 – 10.2
jurrjens wins only in terms of ERA. and he wins in ERA only because of his BABIP. is the discrepancy deserved? maybe jurrjens is just better at inducing weak contact!
BABIP
jurrjens .276
jackson .307
LD% – GB% – IFFB%
jurrjens 19.1 – 41.9 – 7.7
jackson 20.7 – 44.0 – 9.6
nnnnnope. the maddux comparison is just offensive. similarly unremarkable beginnings to a career do not in any way shape or form imply the likelihood of similarly phenomenal peaks
jurrjens is an average pitcher. you can covet his potential and you’re welcome to a hunch that he’ll be breaking through in the future, but there’s absolutely nothing in the numbers to suggest it. and young or not, very few people are going to give up established stars like gardner for average arms like jurrjens
What did Jackson’s stat’s look like by age 25? He’ll be 28 now, so technically he is 3 years into his prime and he is only an “average pitcher”, and he still isn’t consistent. Jackson has potential, good arm, but I think he won’t get any better than what he has done his last 3 years.
My point is, seems people don’t seem to read my post, is heading into his prime ages 25-32 he is in similar shape as Greg Maddux was and certainly better than Edwin Jackson who had a horrible career with 5.15 ERA through his first 6 years in the majors until 2008. In 2009 when he was trade to Detroit at his age 25 season he had a breakout season with a 3.62 ERA.
Edwin Jackson is a 4th or 5th starter in the Braves pitching staff for instance, he give you innings and 30 starts every year, but he isn’t an ace or a number two starter like Jurrjens has been in the past and has the potential of being in the future.
I’m not predicting a HOF career, I don’t see the future.
well no, the point you made that i responded to was about other options on the market. you characterized oswalt as “done” and then gave jackson and question mark and a “come on”. but in fact, jackson projects to be better than jurrjens going forward. that’s what the data tells us
you tell us something else and try to imply it has something to do with the data (really just his age). but in fact, if we pay attention to sequencing, jurrjens is not trending upward at all. if anything, he has regressed from his first couple of seasons
i told you it’s fine to covet a player’s potential. i don’t have a problem with jurrjens being your boy. i have a problem with you trying to turn that personal bias into market value. it doesn’t work that way. he’s worth what he is, not what you hope you could become
your comments about jackson are in error. the numbers show jurrjens isn’t any better than him, whether it’s in the braves’ rotation or especially in the yankees’
The regression is because of injuries after a breakout season in 2009.
I like some of the new numbers like BABIP, some ratios like BB/9, K/9, GD%, but the fundamental difference between the way I value a player and your way is the importance I give to the old fashion numbers.
Innings pitched and ERA are the two I value the most, WAR, FIP, etc. are nice to get some perspective but they are overly dependent on power pitchers and do not properly display a pitchers value when they are not power pitchers because WAR get’s a big boost by a pitchers K rate.
So anyways I stick with IP and ERA as the two essential statistics in measuring a pitchers value
well no, the point you made that i responded to was about other options on the market. you characterized oswalt as “done” and then gave jackson and question mark and a “come on”. but in fact, jackson projects to be better than jurrjens going forward. that’s what the data tells us
you tell us something else and try to imply it has something to do with the data (really just his age). but in fact, if we pay attention to sequencing, jurrjens is not trending upward at all. if anything, he has regressed from his first couple of seasons
i told you it’s fine to covet a player’s potential. i don’t have a problem with jurrjens being your boy. i have a problem with you trying to turn that personal bias into market value. it doesn’t work that way. he’s worth what he is, not what you hope you could become
your comments about jackson are in error. the numbers show jurrjens isn’t any better than him, whether it’s in the braves’ rotation or especially in the yankees’
dingdingding we have a winner!
want to play a comparison game? you like those. last 3 seasons
FIP-
jurrjens 98
jackson 92
ERA-
jurrjens 81
jackson 83
SIERA
jurrjens 4.42
jackson 4.06
tERA
jurrjens 4.27
jackson 3.93
IP – WAR
jurrjens 483 – 6.0
jackson 623 – 10.2
jurrjens wins only in terms of ERA. and he wins in ERA only because of his BABIP. is the discrepancy deserved? maybe jurrjens is just better at inducing weak contact!
BABIP
jurrjens .276
jackson .307
LD% – GB% – IFFB%
jurrjens 19.1 – 41.9 – 7.7
jackson 20.7 – 44.0 – 9.6
nnnnnope. the maddux comparison is just offensive. similarly unremarkable beginnings to a career do not in any way shape or form imply the likelihood of similarly phenomenal peaks
jurrjens is an average pitcher. you can covet his potential and you’re welcome to a hunch that he’ll be breaking through in the future, but there’s absolutely nothing in the numbers to suggest it. and young or not, very few people are going to give up established stars like gardner for average arms like jurrjens
Maddux first 4 full seasons WAR: 22.4 FIP: 3.40
Jurrjens first 4 full seasons WAR: 10.3 FIP: 3.99
And you can’t assume that Jurrjens’ career will take off just like Maddux’s did. The Yankees are better off not giving anyone up and signing Edwin Jackson. He’s essentially as good as, if not better than JJ and he’s got experience in the AL
innings like I said, make a huge difference. Nobody can pitch the amount of innings that this guys pitched before relievers, tighter strike zone, etc.
Fangraphs rates Gardner much better than you do, he might be one the top left fielders in baseball, his WAR was 5.1 which was third last year for LF.
No thanks. I’d rather keep Gardner.
Especially for a guy that’s missed 1/3 of his starts over the last 2 seasons. The AL East is a lot different than the NL East. Especially if you have one bad knee…
I think the NL East is one of the toughest divisions in baseball, the toughest in the NL, that’s for sure.
I’m with you..I think he’s great and I’m a big fan.
I’m also one of maybe 30 people in the world that own a Gardner jersey, including Gardner himself 😉
Montero and Gardner for Jurrgens is more like it. Why do fans keep trying to pawn off a utility player in Nunez – twenty errors on other teams. The guy has zero value in a trade. If the Yankees want to throw him in with Montero and Gardner for a pitcher of Jurrgens calibre, fine, but making him a star when he isn’t is ridiculous. That is like Toronto trading E5 – fourteen errors for King Felix, it would never happen.
Look I’m a Braves fan, but no way they trade Montero and Gardner for Jurrjens who let’s be honest has diminished trade value with his injuries the last couple of seasons. Gardner is a good player, and Cashman has been so stingy lately holding on to players, he certainly values Gardner a lot, because he is young, very fast, a very good defender, and he gets on base a lot, and with his speed that is a major asset. The fact that he can play CF means that ATL can replace Bourn next season with Gardner as their CF and have him for the next 3-4 years under team control.
To me even though I like Gardner a lot, I think Yankees should add a player to the deal because Jurrjens is a very good young pitcher as well, and since they have demonstrated an interest a Nuñez as a super utility player capable of playing SS, I think they should add him to make this a fair trade
You’re arguing over the sprig of parsley. The argument was about Gardner for Jurrjens… Nunez is basically a non-factor.
But great trade proposal, though I think Yankees should add Banuelos as well. Jurrjens has mad potential bro!
when isnt cashman open for business.
passover
Mitch Moreland > Albert Pujols
-Nolan Ryan
“Rangers will win the World Series in 6 games”
-Nolan Ryan
Oh no! We suck again! –Cards fans after the Pujols signing
“Cardinals will suck again”
– People that make excuses for losing to the Cardinals.
Lol who’s making excuses? We got one strike away and then it seemed Texas just assumed it was over. Texas beat themselves.
Pretty sure Cardinals beat Texas 6-2
What I mean is after Texas lost game 6, after it seemed like they assumed the victory was theirs, they didn’t even show up in game 7 (beating themselves). I’m not taking anything away from the Cardinals. They’re a good club. But Texas gave the Series to STL.
I knw what you mean.. But the Cardinals won that game. You can say “Texas gave them game 7” for the rest of your life but I dont believe that for a second. That was one of the best World Series ever, both teams played hard and no one gave anything to anyone.
Maybe not but after coming within a strike and losing game 6, they didn’t seem all there in game 7 which was very disappointing.
Have you heard Washingtons “motivation game 7 speech”? Its pretty inspiring..
ouch..
How many rings do you have??? As far as I’m concerned the Redbirds have won 11 titles, quiet is what I expect from the less fortunate. Thank you
coming from a yankees fan..haha
He was one crappy Nelson Cruz play away from being prophetic.
If you’re trading Moreland, why not build a package for Garza or Shields, assuming he’d be available for the same amount Garza is?
Because he’s only Mitch Moreland, a league average first baseman. A deal centered around Moreland and secondary prospects wouldn’t work for the Rays, they will demand a top prospect and a few other highly rated guys. Garza wouldn’t be cheap either, even though they have a need at 1B as well.
I understand he’s not a premier trade target. Never said he was the centerpiece. I’m just saying, since we’re already talking about trading him for a starter, make a package of something like Moreland, Feldman and Neil Ramirez and someone like Engle Beltre, where Ramirez is a top prospect involved.
Moreland, Olt, Scheppers, and Feldman (seeing as the Cubs have some weird interest in him for some reason) for Garza. That gives the Cubs a ML ready starter, a guy in Scheppers who is very close (with a very high ceiling, but needs to work on control and consistency), a ML starting 1B with solid defense and a good bat, and a 3B prospect who is only a year or two away.
That would get it done, though I’d prefer keeping Olt.
Texas has no place for Olt unless they switch him to 1B, then he could be in future plans. But with the Beltre contract, you’re looking at not seeing Olt on 3B in the majors until probably 4 or so years from now when he’d be 29 (that’s just assuming Beltre would be moved to DH by then). I’d rather sell high on Olt because Texas still has a young 3B in Christian Villenueva who actually probably is a better all around player but is much younger than Olt.
it really wouldn’t. Olt is the only good piece in that package, the rest are garbage who are destined to be minor league roster fillers, we have plenty of that. The cubs are asking for a ‘greinke-like’ offer, honestly does that sound like one to you?
Haha are you kidding? Moreland would start at 1B for the Cubs and give solid defense behind a solid bat. Feldman’s numbers would be amazing for the Cubs after a move from the toughest park for pitchers, to a more comfortable park, Scheppers is the only question mark in the group because of his inconsistency in AAA (but he could probably still make the bullpen out of ST), and Olt would be on the Cubs roster in less than two years. Most teams would love getting 2, possibly 3, ML ready players and a top prospect for a #2 pitcher.
we’re not aiming to be the orioles or the pirates. we’re trying to build a winning team. Brian LaHair is a better bet than Moreland, and we already have a blue chip offensive 1B in the lower minors. No pitcher can go from crap to cy from just a park change. and it’s not like wrigley is a pitcher’s park. you’re trying to talk this package up like it’s something really substantial, but all the numbers show it’s pretty pedestrian.
Yeah.. Number 2 pitcher if the ace of the staff is someone like Roy Halliday or CC.. With the Rangers, Garza immediately becomes your ace.
Don’t take my word for it, check the stats yourself.
baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1056…
Garza was number 9 in VORP (Value over Replacement. Just under CJ Wilson.
Garza was also tough on AL East hitters when he was in Tampa. He will have it much easier against AL West lineups.
That being said. I would rather you trade within your division for Gio Gonzalez. That is if you want your prospects to come back and haunt you every year.
As for Moreland, I would back off any hitter coming off wrist surgery in a trade.
Come back with something stronger than Moreland, Scheppers, Olt and Feldman and then MAYBE you can get in a conversation for Garza.
Stand strong, Friedman.
You can get Yonder for Davis, just gotta stop trying to get Grandal also.
No you can’t.
He can’t, but Friedman might be able to.
Wade Davis in Texas = doom.
Thats not what Im saying and my comment did not come for bitterness over the Pujols loss… Im thinking that if they sign Fileder, Hamilton will probably sign elsewhere next year because the last thing that team would need is offense. I would imagine they would look at pitching next year if thet really think they need Prince Fielder.
They play completely different positions. Why would would they need to get rid of Hamilton?
Texas just signed a huge tv deal as well, they can afford both. they don’t have a high payroll
I was wacthing MLBtv lastnight and they showed what the line up would look like with Fielder.. Napoli was batting 8th! It was absolutely ridiculous. They need pitching…its no secret.
They made it to the WS without an ace last year.
They have the offense to overcome average pitching.
Yeah but they lost the World Series last year. Signing a true Ace over Fielder would give them a better chance to WIN it.
making it to the WS two years in a row is more impressive in many ways than winning it once
not as much fun, granted. but it speaks to the club’s talent. the playoffs are kind of a crapshoot
I disagree, I would much rather win a World Series than lose 2 in a row.
that isn’t actually disagreeing with what i said
OK let me rephrase.. I am much more impressed with a World Series title than losing 2 World Series in a row.
He didn’t say that. It’s just harder to fluke into back-to-back pennants than a WS Championship.
making it to the WS two years in a row is more impressive in many ways than winning it once
not as much fun, granted. but it speaks to the club’s talent. the playoffs are kind of a crapshoot
I don’t think they need Fielder either. I think if Texas wants Davis, they could get him for a prospect or two. Or they could go the route of getting McGehee then trading Moreland for Davis. That’d be interesting and wouldn’t blow our payroll to hell. I just don’t think the Brewers would do it because of their hole at 1B. Texas could also just sign Carlos Pena to a reasonable deal if they want to trade Moreland. And then we could include Moreland in a deal for Garza. Moreland, Feldman (don’t know why the Cubs like him so much but okay), Scheppers and maybe Olt. Both teams win as the Cubs would get a big package with 2 ML starters, Scheppers who is very close (could probably make the bullpen out of ST) and Olt who could be their future 3B and is only a year or two away. And Texas gets their ace for 4 guys that they don’t really need.
Who can ever have too much offense?
Yanks bid for Darvish is going to be big, 65 million, contract 6/60. The Cash-man is sitting on some mucho bucks.
Think so? I don’t think the Yankees will go higher than $40 mi, and actually I expect the Rangers to bid higher
I wish the Yankees and Rangers “Happy Bidding”!
I can’t see Nolan Ryan going for Darvish, I just can’t.
Texas’ front office is said to really like Darvish. Texas has scouted Darvish as heavily as anyone. If they like him, I think they’ll get him.
I agree, and I think they need him as much as the Yankees do, maybe even more since they lost their ace
Texas’ front office is said to really like Darvish. Texas has scouted Darvish as heavily as anyone. If they like him, I think they’ll get him.
Why not? They lost their ace to their division rival. We don’t know how Darvish would do in the MLB, but he’s the only great pitcher left on the market as a free agent.
Texas could sign Darvish, trade Feldman, Moreland, Scheppers and Olt for Garza, and sign Carlos Pena and Mike Gonzalez or Oliver.
SP: Darvish, Garza, Lewis, Feliz, and Holland
RP: Harrison, Tateyama, Lowe, Uehara, Ogando, Gonzalez/Oliver, Adams, and Nathan
Lineup: Kinsler (2B), Andrus (SS), Hamilton (LF), Beltre (3B), Napoli (C), Young (DH), Cruz (RF), Pena (1B), Murphy (CF
Putting Harrison in the bullpen is dumb IMO. He had a VERY good year last year. He is young, good, cost controllable, and consistent. If he is not in our rotation, we need to trade him for something.
How about replacing Olt and Scheppers with Harrison, making it Feldman, Harrison, and Moreland for Garza. That’s two major league ready mid rotation starters and a young talented 1B to take a shot on…
A good return for the Cubs IMO
I’m not against your Garza proposal at all, but from what it sounds like, the Cubs are probably going to ask for a deal with Holland in it.
I think the highest bids will come from the Sox, Yanks, Rangers, Nats, Cubs, and Jays. Darvish would be a key piece for all these teams.
I like the Red Sox. The seem to be concerned with the luxury tax threshold. Getting Darvish for ~$10 mil a year, contract wise, is a bargain…
I like the Red Sox. The seem to be concerned with the luxury tax threshold. Getting Darvish for ~$10 mil a year, contract wise, is a bargain…
Wade Davis in Texas is in no way better than what we already have….unless we’re talking as a middle reliever. Still, in the scenario of signing Fielder, getting as much value for Moreland (in spite of team needs) should be priority #1.
The Rangers can go either way, if they get the bid for Darvish they will pass on Fielder, but if they don’t win the bid they can make a good offer to Fielder. They really don’t have a weakness.
Why doesnt Texas sign Fielder and trade for Shields instead of Davis?
Because we don’t need Fielder and Shields cost too much. Signing Carlos Pena and trading Moreland in a package for Garza makes much more sense. And that would also leave enough financial room for Yu Darvish.
Because we don’t need Fielder and Shields cost too much. Signing Carlos Pena and trading Moreland in a package for Garza makes much more sense. And that would also leave enough financial room for Yu Darvish.
I don’t think the Rays are trading with the Rangers, since the Rangers beat them the last 2 years in the playoffs. I like Cinncy trading with the Rays for either Davis or Shields. They have Alonzo, Grandel, Frazier, or Heisey who would fit well with the Rays.
cardinals should go after thumbo, now the the angels got albert, or morland from texas.
cuddyer also!
the rangers need to sign Darvish and trade moreland feldman scheppers and olt for Garza.
1)Garza
2)Darvish
3)Lewis
4) Holland
5)Feliz
thats pretty dang good, sign Pena/ get Mcgehee for 1B plus you have Ogando in the pen.
Sound good??
Exact same thing I’ve been saying on here. It’s doable and would improve our team overall much more than panicking and overpaying for Fielder. It would also leave room for us to extend our current stars.
exactly. we already have one of the best offences in the game and id put that rotation up agaisnt anyones. Plus Feliz Holland and Darvish will all be #1’s in the next few years. (i think were gonna shell CJ when we face him this year btw)
Your plan for Matt Harrison is not good. He is one of our most valuable trade pieces right now, so if we don’t need him, why not send HIM in the deal for Garza. Keep the prospects and trade the excess, although good, ML players.
Save Olt for a potential Votto/Grienke deal
so who would you package for Garza??
If I was Theo Epstien I would only look at pitching, I feel like he wants a huge over payment for Garza and if thats the case its sounds like a Harrison/Holland, Perez, and Scheppers. To much? probably but that seems to be the Cubs price, which they might get if the Yankee, Sox, or Jays land Darvish.
lmfao Harrison/Holland, Perez AND Scheppers? I think someone is overvaluing Garza just a little there…
Harrison Moreland and Feldman
Harrison Moreland and Feldman
Why does everyone think that the Cubs love Feldman so?
Because the Cubs insisted Feldman be in a Garza deal.
Harrison will be a key piece to our rotation unless Texas were to somehow get two guys for our rotation (like Darvish and Garza). However, getting both are highly unlikely and Harrison put up numbers very close to Garza anyways. The only way I consider trading Harrison is if we get two top of the rotation guys like that.
Are we going to sit here and say that Scott Feldman actually has value? He needs to pitch for a full season and not be so mediocre to have any worth after a below-average 2010, and injury issues in 2011.
Cubs apparently though he had value.
the rangers need to sign Darvish and trade moreland feldman scheppers and olt for Garza.
1)Garza
2)Darvish
3)Lewis
4) Holland
5)Feliz
thats pretty dang good, sign Pena/ get Mcgehee for 1B plus you have Ogando in the pen.
Sound good??
Because when I think about rock and roll, I think about Brian Cashman.
Because when I think about rock and roll, I think about Brian Cashman.
I think these gardner for juurgens offers are just proof that yankee fans dont hype their players enough
Could be injured SPs are over hyped…
I don’t know about that, but Gardner is one of only 2 guys in the Yankee lineup (the other being Cano) who made things difficult for my team to win. I hate it when Gardner is playing. I’d love to see him with the Rangers, though.
Casey McGehee … not so good at hitting the ol’ junk.
Cashman is such a dork
Screw Yu Darvish. Lets sign Cain, and Hamels next year.
Does this guy even root for a specific team or does he just troll and type in all caps?
WHAT IF THEY RESIGN OR YOU GET OUTBID?
I’m not familiar with MOreland. How good of a season last year did he have and how good is he projected to be? More than just an everyday player or an All-star?
He had a mediocre season at the plate last year while playing through a wrist injury. Since he relies on his exceptionally quick wrists for his swing, that’s an important element to the Moreland equation. Aside from that, he has tremendous offensive upside with potential to be a consistent force at the plate. He also has a deceptively good glove in the field, is instinctive and is a knowledgeable type “baseball” guy. The only downside to his game is that you can kill is offense with the shift.
you people are way over sailing Garza he is not worth a Olt or Scheppers. they should not be included in any deal for him, shields yes but not garza
If the Marlins do indeed sign Prince Fielder, this would be a solid solution to the Hanley Ramirez fiasco in Miami in my opinion. With Matt Moore’s recent contract, the Rays definitely have a surplus of pitchers they think can start in the bigs.
Marlins trade Hanley, Gaby Sanchez, and LoMo to the Rays for James Shields, BJ Upton.
Marlins shift Bonifacio to 3b/LF and play either Dominguez or Coughlin in 3b/LF respectively. Marlins now have a top ace at a great price (Shields) for 3 seasons and All-Star CF for at least 1 season that they could most likely extend.
Rays shift Desmond Jennings to CF, play Brandon Guyer/Sam Fuld in LF, DH LoMo, play HanRam at SS, and play Sanchez at 1b. Rays now have an All-Star SS for around what Shields and Upton would have made this season, at this same consistent price for 3 seasons. In Sanchez and LoMo, they also have 2 proven power-hitting middle of the order threats that are not even arb eligible until 2013 and 2014 respectively. They already have the best farm system in the league now, but if LoMo, HanRam, or Sanchez begin to become too expensive in the future, they can deal them for even more top prospects.
If the Marlins do indeed sign Prince Fielder, this would be a solid solution to the Hanley Ramirez fiasco in Miami in my opinion. With Matt Moore’s recent contract, the Rays definitely have a surplus of pitchers they think can start in the bigs.
Marlins trade Hanley, Gaby Sanchez, and LoMo to the Rays for James Shields, BJ Upton.
Marlins shift Bonifacio to 3b/LF and play either Dominguez or Coughlin in 3b/LF respectively. Marlins now have a top ace at a great price (Shields) for 3 seasons and All-Star CF for at least 1 season that they could most likely extend.
Rays shift Desmond Jennings to CF, play Brandon Guyer/Sam Fuld in LF, DH LoMo, play HanRam at SS, and play Sanchez at 1b. Rays now have an All-Star SS for around what Shields and Upton would have made this season, at this same consistent price for 3 seasons. In Sanchez and LoMo, they also have 2 proven power-hitting middle of the order threats that are not even arb eligible until 2013 and 2014 respectively. They already have the best farm system in the league now, but if LoMo, HanRam, or Sanchez begin to become too expensive in the future, they can deal them for even more top prospects.
The Rangers want Wade Davis over Garza. They should sign Fielder and Trade Moreland to the Cubs for Garza and 1 or maybe two prospects. It’s a perfect trade, Ranger replace Moreland and Wilson at the same time the Cubs get a young promising 1st baseman they can build around for the next few year and flip him for more prospects.