10:23am: There will be Type B free agents this offseason, clarifies Sherman in a tweet.
WEDNESDAY, 8:33am: Lesser Type As such as Kelly Johnson, Octavio Dotel, and Takashi Saito will be made Type Bs in the new CBA, tweets Sherman. The players' teams will still get compensation, but the players' markets will not be hurt by the cost of a draft pick. Sherman talked yesterday about Type B compensation being eliminated, but I am guessing that would go into effect for the 2012-13 offseason. By the way, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Brewers have already agreed not to offer arbitration to Saito.
Sherman says the new CBA will be for five years, and could be announced as early as Friday. A hard cap and floor for international signings will be included, tweets SI's Melissa Segura.
TUESDAY, 10:50am: Teams such as the Rockies, Dodgers, Twins, Royals, Cardinals, Yankees, and Astros may lose out on potential supplemental draft picks in 2012, if a new report from Joel Sherman of the New York Post holds true. After talking to two executives briefed on the collective bargaining negotations, Sherman says there is a "strong possibility that Type-B compensation will be eliminated this offseason." As you can see from the current list of Type B free agents, not all of them can expect arbitration offers next Wednesday, but several were likely.
This year, teams like the Blue Jays, Rays, and Padres added multiple draft picks in the #44-60 range by having Type B free agents turn down their offseason arbitration offers. That type of opportunity may have already passed.
Compensation is expected to remain the same this offseason for top Type A free agents, Sherman learned. For example, Mets GM Sandy Alderson said he's received assurances from the Commissioner's Office that the compensation for Jose Reyes will remain unchanged. Sherman hears that tinkering at the bottom of the Type A spectrum is possible, to help players like Octavio Dotel and Kelly Johnson. I imagine the main objections would come from the A's and Blue Jays, teams that made summer trade decisions based on Josh Willingham and Johnson projecting as Type As.
This is unfair. They should at least keep it in place until the next offseason as some teams may have planned this offseason around getting those picks.
I agree. Also, was anyone complaining that much about Type B? It didn’t take any picks away from other teams, just added some to the sandwich round. So it didn’t hurt teams to sign Type B players.
I would make the argument that having a 2nd first round basically (26 compensation picks) was way too many. Also, guys like Varitek shouldn’t be eligible to net a draft pick. I mean come on.
Limit compensation to type A’s, say top 10 – 15% at their position group or something.
I just think they should competency deciding the rankings. None of this RBI and Wins crap deciding how good players are. Same with arbitration.
That’s what I think. You cannot just change rules while teams are building around those rules. Give a year for adjustment, THEN ruin the hopes of many mid-market GMs!
I also agree. Any player that’s currently a free agent this off-season should be covered under the current compensation pick rules. Teams have made decisions and plans on the assumption that their upcoming free agents would have comp picks. Had they known that those picks would go away, it’s quite likely that a number of those players would have been dealt at the trading deadline, rather than held onto.
So ridiculous to do this now. Willingham had an excellent trade market in July.
This doesn’t really make sense to me. It’s only the Type-A free agents whose value is hindered by the compensation regime.
exactly. this is completely incompatible with their stated concerns
If anything, this might actually hurt potential type B players as teams won’t acquire them for the draft choice that they would produce. This makes no sense to me unless the owners are pushing for it to encourage more type B’s to retire so that they can lower payroll costs.
You can thank AA for this. He Beane’d the compensation system. The fact that the free agents weren’t harmed by type B status is why this is happening, because teams could have “gentlemen’s agreements” with type B free agents where they decline and give their old team a free draft pick. It defeats the purpose of the system, where teams should be facing a risk when offering arbitration.
At alxn,
Your argument is naturally very compelling, if it weren’t for your make-belief facts.
You claim GM AA beane’d the system. Prove it.
A lot of teams decline to offer arbitration to Type B free agents because they are AFRAID that the player will accept.
Example:
2010 Twins decline to offer arbitration to Jon Rauch (Type B free agent), whom later signed with the Blue Jays. Ultimately, the Twins got no compensation.
These types of cases happen all the time. Usually, you just don’t hear about it.
Just curious why this is happening? This really harms small market teams who can’t afford to sign Free Agents to longer deals when big market teams sign them for higher (maybe inflated) contracts.
Agreed. What does this achieve apart from hurting teams that depend on draft picks for parity?
I just don’t understand why there would need to be a sudden change for the Type B’s. It doesn’t change their value on the market.
It might not change the player’s value, but it would change how teams look at those players. That is, say that you have two similar players, but one is ranked as a Type B and the other is unranked. A team might see the Type B player has having more value due to the presence of the comp pick. The player can become a more valuable trading chip as a Type B also.
That’s true, but the compensation pick is a byproduct of that players production, which means that they had more inherent value anyways. It might impact the players who were just slightly worse than the worst type B player, but that hardly seems worth breaking the system over.
If they’re similar, they’d both be Type B. otherwise the Type B player was better and deserves his extra value
Similar doesn’t mean Same. One could be just about the borderline of B and the other might be just below. It’s entirely possible to have similar players with slightly different rankings.
I think it does change their value….a team having to give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick to sign a player certainly factors into the “value equation” when making a decision on a contract offer
Another way Selig is F’n over the Astros. Granted other teams are getting screwed as well, but he just can’t see any reason to help out the Astros.
Really keeping the type A FA system in tact, but getting rid of the one that makes a lot more sense. Barmes more than likely wasn’t going to resign, but the Astros would have gained anothe pick to help rebuild their farm system (granted they get the #1 pick, but it would be nice to have 3 in the first 2 rounds.
And you know that this is Selig’s doing because? Selig’s name isn’t even in the linked article in the NY Post.
Regardless of whether or not this is a good idea, it should not happen until next offseason. You shouldn’t be able to change the rules after teams have already made moves based on the current system.
Wow, this is terrible.
I can’t believe it
if the Type B conversation gone, why would Jays find Francisco and Rauch?
It sounds like the rules are changing in the middle of the game and that isn’t fair on all 30 teams that entered the off season with certain expectations. Players are acquired on the premise that they can turn into draft picks for June 2012. If compensation is then eliminated for those players, teams have acquired them for nothing in return and it is merely another way for agents to boost their cost, by involving all the teams in a bidding war. That drives up costs, it doesn’t lower them, leaving many teams floating in limbo. Teams will then decline arbitration outright, knowing that they aren’t going to benefit any longer by offering players arbitration.
andrew friedman just read the news
i.imgur.com/HrVuP.gif
Only once in a long while you do come across perfection, but here you have it.
Relax, everyone. Don’t you realize how much sway the A’s and the Jays have over the commissioner’s office?
Stoeten, I want to see a DJF post explaining why this is happening. I’m not complaining, I’m genuinely curious and too lazy to look into it. Thanks.
On it.
Also: Friedman reading the news: brilliant.
This is probably just BS. Lots of BS from the NY Post like always.
NAILED IT!
This must be backwards. You do away with Type A and keep Type B status for all “ranked” free agents. Scrapping Type B compensation and keeping Type A does nothing to help the Kelly Johnson’s, Grant Balfour’s and Juan Cruz’s of the world. Team don’t want to touch these guys because of their ranking.
If any team really stands to suffer from this, it has to be the Rays. Their draft success is one of the reasons they were able to compete in the East. Take that away and they will probably go back to being a 4th place team in the future
As much as I despise it, I understand reducing Type A compensation but to completely abolish Type B is asinine. If they really dislike it then why not just have the compensation be a later draft pick (like between 2nd & 3rd or 3rd & 4th round)?
bud is going nuts trying to sell himself to the junkees, sux and Philadelphia bullies.
Type B compensation is the one that we actually like though!
This is BS
I would say the Cardinals would be one with a complaint also. Would of been nice to have the pick from Edwin Jackson who they traded for mid-season.
If this happens, it really does affect the Rasmus trade in a big way that favors the Jays.
Yep…prospective draft picks was a big part of the value Cards received in return for Rasmus
Every time I hear something new about these CBA talks the more I dread hearing the official terms…
bud sellig is really trying to sell his bud to the richest teams.
It isn’t hard to understand the reasoning behind it. When it comes to major league baseball, only a few teams exist, the rest are merely a formality for the rich teams to play every year. When Boston doesn’t make the playoffs, simple – add another wild card team. If teams like Tampa or Toronto get too close and have a chance to knock out both Boston and New York, simple – add a second wild card team to the playoffs, ensuring the rich kids make it every year. Toronto and Tampa have been the best teams to use the draft to their benefit the last two years, simple, just abolish type B compensation, ensuring they can’t obtain good talent any longer, which goes to the rich teams.
If the players union actually had the fan’s interests in mind, they would scrap type A compensation instead, making it possible for teams ranked 5 – 15 to sign good players, without losing their draft pick. When has a union ever benefitted society though? It is just another attempt to hurt small-market teams, ensuring they can never compete year after year and ratings no longer suffer as a result. If baseball really wanted to benefit all 30 teams, they scrap type A compensation and put in a 100M salary cap on payroll. Bring back parity of all teams, eliminating the advantage of spending by the rich teams on players.
Putting a cap on the draft is the best thing they can do.Iam sick of teams like the yankees and sox drafting and signing first round talent in rounds after the first round.It is not fair and must end.These new rules well help out the small market teams.What people should do is study it more
I think it is YOU whe needs to study it more. It’s usually the small Market teams that spend the most on the draft. Pittsburgh, Washington, Seattle, Toronto, Tampa, Kansas City, San Diego, Arizona in that order. Not until 9th do you get to the Red Sox as one of the large market teams that did some spending.
So you think it’s fair for teams to draft and sign players who ar first round talents in later rounds.This is BS and will end.In the NFL if you are drafted in the second round no matter what you get second round money.What the Nats have been dong the last few years is not fair.These small market teams will no longer be prisoners on players demands anymore
Wa, wa, wa… What the Nats have been doing is not fair. Way to keep the debate going with 6 year old comments.
What the Nats have been doing is using the system as an advantage. Every team can do it, and it’s usually the small market teams that take advantage. Just look at the history of it. Your logic used in your arguement is contradictory to the intent.
Exactly.. Boston spends approximately 10m each and every year on the draft. The sooner dolts like the one you responded to learn that, or the teams that they pull for start spending more than 4-5m they might have a better farm system themselves.
For what it is worth.. Teams like Tampa also spend heavily on the draft, even the Pirates have learned that lesson. Maybe dung heaps like Houston should take those 2 as an example.
Dolt am I? Explain how this will help when the draftee’s start increasing their demands pre draft so they will still fall to the upper level teams that are willing to spend to the max. your 3-1 post to like ratio indicates you’re the dolt to me…
Hey.. U were not the one I directed that at…
“The sooner dolts like the one you responded to learn that”
You had a good enough back n forth going and have had that same one going with the same user.. Was agreeing with u…
All I EVER say is teams should spend in the area of 10m on the draft, the good farm system teams do and that includes Boston, Tampa, even Pittsburgh. Why some always argue over the number of players picked in the lower (say..20th?) round and given a large bonus should be stopped is.. Well.. You get the idea..
There is always those players who have a strong college commitment that a large bonus can sway. any team can try that, it’s not a large market team. Toronto did that this year with a certain 1st round pick even who had a huge college commit even..
My sincerest appologies. I misread your comments as being directed at me.
NP.. My fault for not making it plain from the outset…
As to the 3-1 post ratio.. probably worse than that.. Been spamming the place since Tim started and well before Discuss was implemented here 🙁
lol. I’ll give you a few likes to boost the ratio
Elaborate. How exactly does THIS help small market teams.
The only new rule that might help is the hard slotting for the draft.
But losing compensation does more harm than help. Its not like taking compensation away is going to encourage teams to work harder to re sign their free agents. And its definitely not going to stop the big market teams form out bidding all other teams for a player they really want.
All that taking compensation does is give the big market teams more leeway in free agent signings. But that’s not the biggest problem right now. The biggest problem is they are doing it THIS offseason instead of the next. As a Twins fan, I am sure that they are relying on Jason Kubel’s compensation, but now that goes out the window because of this possible change. Teams now have to change their strategy in the middle of the offseason, which is like changing the playing field.
I under stand that part of changing the rule in the middle of the off season but this system will be great for all.I am sick of seeing players tell teams that they are unsignable but when they get drafted by a team who is willing to give up the cash what happens they become signable.The kids who do this can now go to college and wait their three years to re enter the draft.It not fair that a kid who gets drafted in the second round gets more money than most of the players drafted in the first round.If you think thats fair you are way off
I think that there was some talk of putting a cap on spending for the first 10 rounds of the draft. But I wouldn’t be so quick to trash the big market teams here. Small market teams have spent some big bucks on first round talent. If some first round talent players have leaked thru to later rounds, it’s largely because the smaller market teams are cheaping out on signing first round talent (as long as you’re not talking about guys who are 1st or 2nd pick in the draft type super talents).
There will never be a salary cap in MLB. Why bother wasting your time pining after what will never be.
As for Type A compensation, I think it should exist, but in a different form. Rather than forcing the signing team to give up a pick, why not just give the other team 2 comp round picks?
Also, consider adjusting the entire model for ranking of the free agents. The current model causes very good “supplementary” players to become ranked as Type A which when linked to having to give up a pick to sign them, causes those players to have their FA value drop significantly, since no team wants to give up a pick to sign a setup reliever or a nice, but hardly a superstar 2B-man. Put all position players into one pool and all pitchers into a second pool. Or something similar. The point of this would be that true Type A players should be those that command the very highest salaries, though I’d be hesitant to directly link actual salaries back to comp picks.
“When has a union ever benefitted society though?”
Read your baseball history. Players used to be barely better than slaves and were paid next to nothing, essentially owned by their teams with no say in their contracts or rights. That said, try to keep ideology out of this.
Relax people, it’s the NY Post. Their sports writers aren’t always reputable.
You are correct!
I think is will be great.Type B players should not bring back draft picks period.Having 30 players in a sandwich round is a damn joke
Especially since the system was intended to help out the smaller market teams that couldn’t sign their players. For the most part (with exceptions) its the larger market teams that abuse the hell out of the system.
Small market like Tampa also now.. Lets not forget that boatload of Type B’s they got last year and several of which were questionable as to whether or not would have/should maybe have accepted arbitration.
Back room deals for denying were abundant as we all know on all teams and Tampa we can figure plays that game too. They had like 9 top 100 picks this last June.
Tampa is the noted exception.
LOL. I get it now. I just checked your info and you are from New York. Is this a reverse psychology thing? Must be
I don’t care. Just get this damn agreement finalized.
I don’t get this. Unless by eliminating Type B that means Type A’s compensation will become Type B and there will only be Type A free agents.
That is what they are planning I think. I think that they are just going to make Type A free agents worth only a compensation round pick, and not the other team’s first round pick.
I think that’s the situation we’re looking at in the near future.
I think a more likely scenario is to get rid of the current type B level. Then take the top half of the current type A and make that the new Type A. Bottom half of that becomes the new type B. Helps those unlucky relievers who get type A. Less draft pick compensation. And teams only lose a pick when signing the best players.
“Lesser Type As such as Kelly Johnson, Octavio Dotel, andTakashi Saito will be made Type Bs in the new CBA”
The simplest and smart choice. Personally, I think more tinkering needs to be done with how the rankings are established, but this beats just eliminating compensation altogether.
You know Obsessions… Why just not go back to the way the game used to be and eliminate compensation altogether? Baseball worked just fine for years like that and it was small owners griping then.. Just ditch it for good… Give it a try for 5 years since most seem to think compensation is so bad and messed up.
Jays, A’s should get a sandwich 1st round pick(instead of signing teams) + the 2nd rounder from the team who signs those players.
Essentially Johnson + willingham are type b’s but the teams get compensated as type a’s
if they dont adjust elias rankings, will they arbitrarily every year decide to change some type a rankings every year? or is there an adjustment to elias coming?
YAY Houston’s 2nd round pick just gained so much value. Thanks MLB for the credit line for moving to the AL.
Hopefully the fanbase can sustain losing badly for the next 3 years, adding up top 3 overall picks and stockpiling young talent.
I’m more intrigued about this move to the AL than in the past. The 15 team division idea is awesome, I’m currently playing this way on OOTP Baseball 12.
Blah.
Leave type B as is! Cubs get nothing for Aramis Ramirez!?!?! are you joking me!
I still dont know why teams cant trade Players for Draft picks? 25 years ago the NFL Draft was nothing. Do you know how much money could be made if they made Draft Days more exciting. This Sport is way behind the times.
I don’t understand why they don’t set the compensation as an average annual value. Hurts the big market teams and helps the small markets. It also helps relievers since they generally don’t make as much. Have different ranges for different positions.
Maybe the small market teams deserve an advantage every once in a while.
They arent going to get it this way
The problem with that system is that it opens the door for serious undervaluing of free agents for the sake of avoiding compensation. Large markets might not really get hurt by that as they’re losing the compensation anyway, but this could seriously hurt mid-market teams. I doubt the MLBPA would ever let a system like that fly because of the damage it could do to player salaries.
Can MLBTR please not link to NY Post anymore? They post any garbage they want to. If they posted that the Mets are looking at Pujols and Fielder and Darvish would you post it? Its not a rumor, its just a bunch of baloney that someone made up.
There’s rumors and then there’s real rumors. Real rumors come from teams, not “journalists” (and in the NY Post’s case, that term is used very lightly).
I am more intrigued now by the statement – international free agents will now have a hard cap and floor instituted. What that means, is Cespedes could now have five teams offer him the highest amount possible and he gets to choose which team he wants to play for. This is a blatant attack on smaller market teams. How? It is simple, say Kansas City and the Yankees both offer a contract at the maximum allowed. The player will then choose the Yankees, because they are always signing expensive free agents to reach the playoffs each year. The Yankees get richer, obtain high-ceiling free agents, and Kansas City are left with nothing to improve their team. The cellar dwellers have no hope of ever improving, because which international free agent would turn down an opportunity to play for the big market teams over the small market teams. That is just another advantage the CBA would give the big teams, where they ensure that the same four teams are always playing in October. That shouldn’t be allowed and defeats the purpose of having 30 teams.
See now that update makes sense. Absolutely stupid to change the rules mid stream and screw the teams who planned based on current status of the Elias rankings
I have a solution to the FA Compensation, but first I want to comment on how I just realized the current system is.
The Phillies recently signed Papelbon, suppose Boston decides to replace Papelbon with Madson. In that scenario you reward 2 good teams with an extra draft pick in the late 30’s for trading equivalent players.
Here is the solution: Keep the Type A and Type B rankings as is and adopt a system of compensation like the NFL where you get sandwich picks based on the net loss of Free Agents. You eliminate the loss of your own draft picks and only gain sandwich picks (either after the 1st round or the 2nd) based and the difference between Type A’s and B’s you lost to those that you signed. With this system you can also eliminate the FA Arbitration as well.