The Phillies organization has internally discussed proposing a swap of Ryan Howard for Albert Pujols, sources tell Buster Olney of ESPN. Philadelphia GM Ruben Amaro shot the notion down, saying, "That's a lie. I don't know who you're talking to, but that's a lie." Olney stresses that it is not fully clear whether the Phillies have actually approached the Cardinals with the idea.
Both sluggers are 30 years-of-age and both are eligible for free agency following the 2011 season. Pujols is owed $16MM in each of the next two seasons. Howard, meanwhile, is set to make $19MM in 2010 and $20MM the following year. While Pujols comes at a slightly cheaper rate in the next couple of years he (in all likelihood) would cost more to retain than Howard.
Olney points out that Howard is a St. Louis native, meaning that the Cards may be able to sell their fans on such a deal. However, the Cardinals faithful have more or less adopted their three-time NL MVP, who is entering his 10th big league season with the club.
While owner Bill DeWitt wants to keep Pujols in red and white for life, an A-Rodesque $275MM deal might not be financially prudent for the organization. One has to wonder if the Cardinals will have to consider trading their megastar. If so, could a deal centered around Ryan Howard make sense?
No and I don’t have to say why, it should be obvious to everyone.
Not only will such a trade never happen, but there might be an attendance of 100 people at Busch Stadium every night if Pujols ends up elsewhere. Even though I’m skeptical about the chances of Pujols remaining a Card for life, There is a 0% chance that he gets traded to the Phillies for Ryan Howard.
Not only will such a trade never happen, but there might be an attendance of 100 people at Busch Stadium every night if Pujols ends up elsewhere. Even though I’m skeptical about the chances of Pujols remaining a Card for life, There is a 0% chance that he gets traded to the Phillies for Ryan Howard.
Nice pipe dream for us, nightmare for Cards fans.
This was irresponsibly leaked by whoever told this to Olney, and there’s no way this happens in any fashion.
The funny thing is, it was probably STL “leaking” it to test the STL fan base’s reaction. It still won’t happen, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see STL thinking about it. But it will never happen as a straight swap with Howard.
I’d rather have Pujols myself, but you say that as if Howard is a bad player. A “nightmare” for cards fans? Really? Ryan Howard is the most important Phillies player, NOT CHASE UTLEY. Howard is the reason they got to the world series the last two years.
It’s crazy how even his own fan base underrates the crap out of Chase Utley. He’s the best second baseman in the league by far, and people still think Ryan Howard is better…insane.
I understand you guys post all rumors but this is one i’d really refrain from posting, it’s ridiculous and 100% will never happen.
Well, the name of the site is MLBTradeRUMORS.com, not MLBJustTheFactsAndNothingElse.com
Crazy, it’s almost like I acknowledged that in the beginning of my post or did I dream that?
This site doesn’t post all rumors. It only posts ones that are reasonable. This hasn’t even been much of a trade rumor, but could bring up a good discussion if there would be a trade centered around Howard. I seriously doubt it would happen, but what would make sense? Howard and Hamels for Pujos?
As absurd as this rumor is, there is no way that the Phillies trade Hamels in the package. You don’t trade a 20-something year-old lefty with a WS MVP who also has stuff like Hamels has.
If it were EVER to happen, it’ll be Howard plus one of the pitching prospects. Unfortunately it won’t happen, it just won’t
That’s a bit much. Howard is a great player and aside from last year Hamels has been a pretty good pitcher.
I recall Tim saying in his last chat that he didn’t even put the Mauer trade “rumors” on here because they were so farfetched, but this is put on here? Not that I have a problem with it, I’m just saying.
Erroneous!
Not possible. Howard and Utley is the starting point. Include Happ and St. Louis might listen.
Olney just needs to keep to what ESPN pays him to talk about: Yankees and Red Sox. Leave the real baseball reporting to the local beat writers.
Amen!
Didn’t the Phils just trade Cliff Lee to save money?
no they did it to get prospects
no they did it to get prospects
They did it more to restock the system after the trade, but also because Lee didn’t give them any indication that he would sign for less than his true value or sign an extension with the Phillies. Of course, once news broke that the Phils were close to getting Halladay, Lee and his agent came running to Amaro with a changed stance.
Plus Puljols has already stated he would love to stay in STL, but will test FA. I doubt PHI would be interested in a rental. So unless they are going to pony up a bigger contract than what A-Rod got. There is no way in HELL Puljols is a PHI at anytime in his career.
You’re saying the Cardinals will pay that contract or is Pujols going to take a hometown discount?
They did it more to restock the system after the trade, but also because Lee didn’t give them any indication that he would sign for less than his true value or sign an extension with the Phillies. Of course, once news broke that the Phils were close to getting Halladay, Lee and his agent came running to Amaro with a changed stance.
Olney…WTF
Ryan Howard for Albert Pujols would never happen. Why is anyone even wasting any time on this rumor?
Because THIS is what Olney was going for. A conversation of “if’s” and “maybe’s”. It sells every time.
Noo. Buster Olney should be embarrassed to talk about this. 2 words discribes the difference between the players PLATE DISCIPLINE.
Technically SHK66 trading Howard for Pujols would save the Phillies money (in the short term), but STL isn’t dumb enough to even consider this.
Ridiculous. Not even sensible.
Wow buster olney. wow. There is a better chance of the Phillies and the Cardinals switching cities than there is of pujols for howard.
Olney at his lowest to get some views. Wow.
Pujols is one of the greatest hitters of our generations. There is no way the Cards would ever do this. Not realistic at all. Only in fantasy, one could hope.
Obviously not going to happen, but don’t attack Olney, he’s doing his job. Someone told him they were considering offering it and he reported it. Even Olney knows it’s not going to happen. He’s just reporting.
No, he isn’t doing his job.
Because, I guarantee you, if he would have checked his sources and called up the appropriate people (in this case, Amaro), this story is never reported.
A reporter who does his job reports credible rumors and credible news. This story is neither.
Oh come on. Nobody at the top ever comments on such trades until they go down. The only time a GM will respond positively to trade rumors is when it is absolutely known by everyone that the team wants to move them (Milton Bradley, etc.). Trade rumors almost always originate from lower level sources that “hear things” in the front office, and the official response is almost always denial.
No, he isn’t doing his job.
Because, I guarantee you, if he would have checked his sources and called up the appropriate people (in this case, Amaro), this story is never reported.
A reporter who does his job reports credible rumors and credible news. This story is neither.
One of the stupider things I’ve ever heard… Who could believe this could ever happen??
Hmm…yea, and the Phils will definitely be ready and willing to lay out 15 years/$675 billion for Albert…
It should be interesting though if the Cards let him reach the open market…The Yanks have Texeira long-term and I still expect the Sox to pick up Adrian at some point. So who’s going to pay him $25 mil+ per year? Then again, maybe St Louis will just bid against themselves like they did with Holliday…
The only way I would do this is if I was the Cardinals is for Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and the Phillies top 3 prospects.
Sounds good to me. But the Cardinals wouldn’t trade Albert for Howard. They are on totally different levels of playing.
Oh Yeah I know it wont happen, I was just trying to compare how much better Pujols is than Ryan Howard.
pujols isnt howard and utley good…you are in a fantasy world with that thought. If the cardinals don’t feel that they can sign him, it makes more sense than you think. The phillies shipped cliff lee out of philly because of the same reason. Believe me the phillies would find the cash if this move is pulled off. Not taking this very seriously but calling olney stupid for writing about it is also premature.
Horrible comparison. Cliff Lee is a great pitcher, but Albert Pujols is more valuable as a hitter than Cliff Lee is as a pitcher. cliff Lee affects a game once every 5 days. Albert Pujols affects about 150/162 games, if one is as pessimistic as humanly possible in terms of how many games he’ll play.
Albert Pujols is an extremely rare talent. The Cardinals will find the money to get him signed long term if they must.
Plus, Cliff Lee was shipped off because a better pitcher came along and signed a below market deal.
Actually, Lee got traded to the Phils could replenish their farm system a bit after giving up Carrasco, Donald, Knapp, Marson, D’Arnaud, Taylor, and Drabek all within six months of each other.
Actually, Lee got traded to the Phils could replenish their farm system a bit after giving up Carrasco, Donald, Knapp, Marson, D’Arnaud, Taylor, and Drabek all within six months of each other.
True, but the effect that Albert has on those 150/162 games is much less than the effect Cliff Lee has on his 30 games. Not saying I’d rather have Cliff Lee than Albert Pujols.
Excluding the playoffs, Cliff Lee won 14 games last year and his team won only 15 of his 33 starts. Now he had 13 losses, so that is probably more accurate of his true nature of pitching so I will say that he pitch good enough not to lose 20 games out of 33. You are trying to tell me that Pujols didn’t win/put the team in position to win at least 20 games last year?
If you’re going to ask how many games Pujols “put the team in position to win”, you should at least be fair and ask the same of Cliff Lee. He put his team in a position to win in many of the games he pitched which his team lost. He was in Cleveland for the majority of the season, not exactly a top-notch team last year. He pitched an 8 inning shutout which his team lost, and he lost another game going 8.0 innings with 1 ER. There were a few other games he gave up only 1 or 2 runs and his team lost.
For Cliff Lee, out of 34 starts, I see 26 that were quality starts. I’d say that’s a better indication of his value. Though I’m not saying his value is greater than Pujols over the course of a season, he is probably more valuable in the postseason (see 2009 NLDS).
Horrible comparison. Cliff Lee is a great pitcher, but Albert Pujols is more valuable as a hitter than Cliff Lee is as a pitcher. cliff Lee affects a game once every 5 days. Albert Pujols affects about 150/162 games, if one is as pessimistic as humanly possible in terms of how many games he’ll play.
Albert Pujols is an extremely rare talent. The Cardinals will find the money to get him signed long term if they must.
Plus, Cliff Lee was shipped off because a better pitcher came along and signed a below market deal.
Pujols isn’t Howard and Utley good? Your right, he is by far alot better then both. This guy could go down as one of the best hitters ever by the time he is done.
I realize Pujols deserves a much bigger catch than just Howard, but keep in mind the economics of baseball right now. Utley is signed through 2013 for just $15 million per year which is a steal and he is absolutely not going anywhere. Who knows? Maybe Howard would be willing to sign a deal with the Cards for something like 6 years/$120 million and the Phillies won’t give him that. If St. Louis knows without a doubt they can’t keep Pujols and everyone else knows he wants to max out that lowers his trade value significantly since he’d only be around a year or two, depending on when he was traded. Of course, all things being equal, it would take Howard and a lot more for Pujols.
Why on earth would the cards trade Howard to pay him 20 million dollars a year instead of signing Pujols to play at 25 million a year? This whole conversation is just dumb.
I realize Pujols deserves a much bigger catch than just Howard, but keep in mind the economics of baseball right now. Utley is signed through 2013 for just $15 million per year which is a steal and he is absolutely not going anywhere. Who knows? Maybe Howard would be willing to sign a deal with the Cards for something like 6 years/$120 million and the Phillies won’t give him that. If St. Louis knows without a doubt they can’t keep Pujols and everyone else knows he wants to max out that lowers his trade value significantly since he’d only be around a year or two, depending on when he was traded. Of course, all things being equal, it would take Howard and a lot more for Pujols.
Pujols is an Amazing player dont get me wrong but howard and utley is way to much for pujols … in fantasy baseball and in real baseball
No, Pujols is the best player in baseball and one of the best of all time, thats not too much at all.
Pujols is an Amazing player dont get me wrong but howard and utley is way to much for pujols … in fantasy baseball and in real baseball
if the phils get pujols then they’ll win at least another 2 world series within the next five years
I think they can do that with the team they have now.
i heard the mets have been internally discussing a john maine for tim lincecum trade. but, that’s of course completely ridiculous too.
My dad asked me at this. I just straight up told him no, that is a horrible trade idea.
Has anyone said yet that they just threw up in their mouth a little? Because I kind of did just now.
Thankfully I read this on an empty stomach.
Thankfully I read this on an empty stomach.
Articles like this just proove that we need Opening Day asap…
Agreed.
It’s a sign of the apocalypse… a yanks fan and a Red Sox fan agreed on something.
Then we’ve had numerous signs, since I think I’ve yet to disagree with you, and, if memory serves right, you’re a Red Sox fan. =P
I was wondering why I saw four horsemen riding past my window 😉
I was wondering why I saw four horsemen riding past my window 😉
Then we’ve had numerous signs, since I think I’ve yet to disagree with you, and, if memory serves right, you’re a Red Sox fan. =P
It’s a sign of the apocalypse… a yanks fan and a Red Sox fan agreed on something.
Agreed.
Is this a joke?
i heard the kansas city royals are internally discussing david dejesus for matt holliday.
you are just dying for some likes aren’t you?
sorry, think blue, i’ll keep it nice and boring. thanks for the tip.
Michael Bowden for Halladay.
Melky Cabrera for Carl Crawford.
Ryan Rowland-Smith for Zach Greinke.
Lars Anderson for Pujols.
Christian Guzman for Hanley Ramirez.
That should get me a couple hundred likes, right?
apparently. the way likes are thrown around here.
The only shred of this that COULD happen is the Cardinals get Howard to replace Pujols if he goes somewhere else (which I’m 90 percent sure won’t happen). A straight swap? Never in a million years.
How does Brian Bannister for Pujols + Holliday + 15MM Cash sound?
Not sure if its worth it for the Royals, though.
How does Brian Bannister for Pujols + Holliday + 15MM Cash sound?
Not sure if its worth it for the Royals, though.
I keep trying to post that this story makes me vomit in my mouth. It is very important that this sentiment be publicized in a forum theoretically available to Cardinals executives.
Something like this deal makes sense if (i) the Cards can’t resign Pujols, (ii) the Cards can resign Howard, (iii) they get prospects. If Pujols will just walk when his deal is done, why not make a deal like this? Also keep in mind, from a PR perspective, that Howard is a career .381/.536/.746 hitter in Busch Stadium (17 games). That isn’t to provide a baseball prospectus type argument for such a decision, but it may be relevant to convincing your sports radio fans.
Something like this deal makes sense if (i) the Cards can’t resign Pujols, (ii) the Cards can resign Howard, (iii) they get prospects. If Pujols will just walk when his deal is done, why not make a deal like this? Also keep in mind, from a PR perspective, that Howard is a career .381/.536/.746 hitter in Busch Stadium (17 games). That isn’t to provide a baseball prospectus type argument for such a decision, but it may be relevant to convincing your sports radio fans.
ah, there we go
ah, there we go
While I agree this will likely never happen, remember that it was reported the Phillies may trade Lee in their quest for a pitcher. It was laughed at and the reporter (Rosenthal) was ridiculed beyond belief. Turns out that happened. So its possible. Don’t be so quick to immediately discount it.
While I agree this will likely never happen, remember that it was reported the Phillies may trade Lee in their quest for a pitcher. It was laughed at and the reporter (Rosenthal) was ridiculed beyond belief. Turns out that happened. So its possible. Don’t be so quick to immediately discount it.
This reminds me of when Ken Rosenthal said the Phillies may trade Cliff Lee to get Roy Halladay and everybody jumped all over him. Not saying it will happen, but I don’t think it is far fetched to believe that at some point in time the Phillies front office pondered such a move. If they feel that they have to re-sign Howard and it will cost 150 million, why not go the extra 100 and get one of the top 5 players of all time.
The difference is Halladay is not a hundred times better than Cliff Lee. Pujols is a million times better than Howard.
ok pujols is a Super Super star and ryan howard is a bum nooo yes pujols is better than howard but dont make it seem like howard isnt worth anything or cant even hold pujols jockstrap …. howard has one the MVP and leads the league in HR almsot every yea and RBIS so dont make him seem like hes a regular player he himself is a superstar
Howard has 3 all-stars hitting before him. That’s where his RBI’s come from. Adam Dunn could produce in that lineup. Ryan Howard is a good power hitter. Albert Pujols is an all around good hitter.
I agree with everything except, Pujols is an all around GREAT hitter.
ok pujols is a Super Super star and ryan howard is a bum nooo yes pujols is better than howard but dont make it seem like howard isnt worth anything or cant even hold pujols jockstrap …. howard has one the MVP and leads the league in HR almsot every yea and RBIS so dont make him seem like hes a regular player he himself is a superstar
The difference is Halladay is not a hundred times better than Cliff Lee. Pujols is a million times better than Howard.
Words cannot comprehend how perplexing and utterly idiotic this rumor is. This is much different than Lee and Halladay. The Phillies save money with Halladay and are guaranteed to have a good product. Albert for Howard is just straight up idiotic. OFcourse they would want a guy 4-5 WAR better than Howard, which includes better defense, more consistent hitting, etc.
Howard being from St. Louis is a nice story, but come on. Albert IS St. Louis.
Words cannot comprehend how perplexing and utterly idiotic this rumor is. This is much different than Lee and Halladay. The Phillies save money with Halladay and are guaranteed to have a good product. Albert for Howard is just straight up idiotic. OFcourse they would want a guy 4-5 WAR better than Howard, which includes better defense, more consistent hitting, etc.
Howard being from St. Louis is a nice story, but come on. Albert IS St. Louis.
actualy rosenthal was the first to break that news if i do believe about the lee/halladay thing.
actualy rosenthal was the first to break that news if i do believe about the lee/halladay thing.
exactly you took the words right out of my mouth …. everybody said thats a dumb trade this that how much better can halladay be in the playoffs and bammmmmmmmm ruben amaro denied it and it happened …. not saying its going to happen but theres some truth to every rumor
exactly you took the words right out of my mouth …. everybody said thats a dumb trade this that how much better can halladay be in the playoffs and bammmmmmmmm ruben amaro denied it and it happened …. not saying its going to happen but theres some truth to every rumor
This reminds me of when Ken Rosenthal said the Phillies may trade Cliff Lee to get Roy Halladay and everybody jumped all over him. Not saying it will happen, but I don’t think it is far fetched to believe that at some point in time the Phillies front office pondered such a move. If they feel that they have to re-sign Howard and it will cost 150 million, why not go the extra 100 and get one of the top 5 players of all time.
This might not be completely realistic, but its probably true that St. Louis needs to at least consider trading Pujols. Affording both Holliday and Pujols wont leave much room for a lot else.
This might not be completely realistic, but its probably true that St. Louis needs to at least consider trading Pujols. Affording both Holliday and Pujols wont leave much room for a lot else.
As a Cub fan, I can only hope…
As a Cub fan, I can only hope…
I’ve been reading the comments section on this website for 2 years now and never once had i seen a board this full of people in agreement. Not one mindless lunatic yet
Because the subject matter is Albert Pujols being traded. How can any of us be in disagreement?
Because the subject matter is Albert Pujols being traded. How can any of us be in disagreement?
I’ve been reading the comments section on this website for 2 years now and never once had i seen a board this full of people in agreement. Not one mindless lunatic yet
Olney may be doing his job but this is just moronic. It’d take much more than Howard to trade Pujols away.
Olney may be doing his job but this is just moronic. It’d take much more than Howard to trade Pujols away.
I’ve internally discussed having a three-way with Heather Graham and Marisa Tomei, but Buster Olney couldn’t get a quote from either of them dignifying that idea either.
I’ve internally discussed having a three-way with Heather Graham and Marisa Tomei, but Buster Olney couldn’t get a quote from either of them dignifying that idea either.
This is insane!
This is insane!
so the cardinals should trade a 8+WAR player for a 4-5WAR player?
umm……
am i missing something? like say…half the phillies AAA team?
so the cardinals should trade a 8+WAR player for a 4-5WAR player?
umm……
am i missing something? like say…half the phillies AAA team?
Yes, it is implausible, and the comparison of Howard to Pujols is a little bit offensive. But hold your incredulity, people! This is not talk of a straight up swap, but a deal “centered around Ryan Howard”. I don’t think this will happen, but suppose the Cardinals realise sometime in the next year that Pujols has determined to test free agency and his market value; can they offer him the highest salary? No. If they then determine that they cannot keep him, what is the best they can get in return for him? An elite 1B slugger would be a good start, and if the Phillies added maybe Jayson Werth plus a couple of quality prospects (do they have any left?) the Cardinals would be wise to consider a trade; it’s not as if they own Pujols forever, and seeing him go for a couple of draft picks would be devastating. As I said, I don’t think this will happen, because Pujols seems to be a loyal player and the Cards should be in a position to keep him happy enough, but I don’t think it’s too outlandish a scenario for the Phillies to be wary of.
yeah they have some decent prospects left. Domonic Brown is a top 50.
but even a Dom Brown+Howard+Werth…..id still be tempted to hold onto pujols.
Howard+Brown+Gillies+Happ/Aumont for Pujols and a B- outfield prospect [maaaaybe Daryl Jones]?
If a ridiculous trade proposal is out there according to Olney, midaswell have some fun with it.
yeah they have some decent prospects left. Domonic Brown is a top 50.
but even a Dom Brown+Howard+Werth…..id still be tempted to hold onto pujols.
Werth is going to sign an extension for at least 12 million a year, so no. Howard will demand an extension soon worth at least 20 million a season. Would you rather have him? Or for at maximum 10 million more for 4-5 more WAR and soon to be one of the top 10 players all time?
Me? Pujols, no doubt. I shouldn’t have mentioned Werth, because the specifics of such speculation detracts from my point, which is that the Cards ought to consider the possibility that they *cannot* retain Pujols. And though this talk is waaay premature, front offices have time on their hands at certain points in the year and would be wise to indulge in such speculation, just in case. Note that in WAR, Werth+Howard is approximately Pujols, over the past 3 years; just sayin’.
You also have to account for who Werth is going to replace, and that would probably be Ludwick, who has been worth about 10 WAR the past 3 seasons.
I just think that it’s impossible for them to consider losing Albert. They wouldn’t have given Matt Holliday that kind of money for him if they didn’t think they could get him. Would you rather have Matt Holliday plus about 8-13 million? Or Albert. I think Albert would be the answer there.
You also have to account for who Werth is going to replace, and that would probably be Ludwick, who has been worth about 10 WAR the past 3 seasons.
I just think that it’s impossible for them to consider losing Albert. They wouldn’t have given Matt Holliday that kind of money for him if they didn’t think they could get him. Would you rather have Matt Holliday plus about 8-13 million? Or Albert. I think Albert would be the answer there.
Me? Pujols, no doubt. I shouldn’t have mentioned Werth, because the specifics of such speculation detracts from my point, which is that the Cards ought to consider the possibility that they *cannot* retain Pujols. And though this talk is waaay premature, front offices have time on their hands at certain points in the year and would be wise to indulge in such speculation, just in case. Note that in WAR, Werth+Howard is approximately Pujols, over the past 3 years; just sayin’.
Werth is going to sign an extension for at least 12 million a year, so no. Howard will demand an extension soon worth at least 20 million a season. Would you rather have him? Or for at maximum 10 million more for 4-5 more WAR and soon to be one of the top 10 players all time?
yeah thank you of course the trade wouldnt be straight up the phillies would have to give up 1 blue chip prospect and medium prospects
yeah thank you of course the trade wouldnt be straight up the phillies would have to give up 1 blue chip prospect and medium prospects
Yes, it is implausible, and the comparison of Howard to Pujols is a little bit offensive. But hold your incredulity, people! This is not talk of a straight up swap, but a deal “centered around Ryan Howard”. I don’t think this will happen, but suppose the Cardinals realise sometime in the next year that Pujols has determined to test free agency and his market value; can they offer him the highest salary? No. If they then determine that they cannot keep him, what is the best they can get in return for him? An elite 1B slugger would be a good start, and if the Phillies added maybe Jayson Werth plus a couple of quality prospects (do they have any left?) the Cardinals would be wise to consider a trade; it’s not as if they own Pujols forever, and seeing him go for a couple of draft picks would be devastating. As I said, I don’t think this will happen, because Pujols seems to be a loyal player and the Cards should be in a position to keep him happy enough, but I don’t think it’s too outlandish a scenario for the Phillies to be wary of.
In a year or so this won’t sound as crazy as you guys are making it. And all that was written is that there were internal discussions –not any mention of a timetable. Just saying it’s not out of the realm of possibility that in a year or so contract negotiations go nowhere with St. Louis and the team decides to do it’s best to move Pujols to get something in return.
In a year or so this won’t sound as crazy as you guys are making it. And all that was written is that there were internal discussions –not any mention of a timetable. Just saying it’s not out of the realm of possibility that in a year or so contract negotiations go nowhere with St. Louis and the team decides to do it’s best to move Pujols to get something in return.
Buster may have been just doing his job ,but by no means was he doing a good job at it. I might hear something ,but that does not mean I go out and tell the world. Especially,when dealing with something like this that just will not happen,ever.
Buster may have been just doing his job ,but by no means was he doing a good job at it. I might hear something ,but that does not mean I go out and tell the world. Especially,when dealing with something like this that just will not happen,ever.
This has to be one of the must bullshit reports that ive ever heard i mean this makes absolutely makes no sense for the cardinals im sure any team excluding the yankees would give up there first basemen for Big Al.As a cards fan this probably wants to make you bang your head against the wall and say buster olney is a complete idiot which he completely is. It sounds like some one at the phillies office has been smoking ganja or became a over night alcoholic
Teix has a full no trade. So you’re wrong about that, but I agree that the “report” is not factual.
Your not getting what i meant lol, i meant the yankees is the only want who wouldn’t trade there first basemen for Pujols and im fully aware of Tex’s no trade clause he loves New York and New York loves him, i dont think he will ever be traded
Oh, may bad. I suck at multi-tasking.
TBH, if a team needed a 1B, I think A-Gone makes more sense because he’s younger and will be cheaper in dollars and player personnel assets that would have to be surrendered.
Your fine i do it all the time,
And i completely agree with you, He also plays excellent defense and will be more likely to get since he will be dealt its just a matter of when and Albert is little a teams wet dream to have on thereteam but he wont get traded nor do i think he will play for another team and another firstbasemen to watch for is Prince Fielder if something happens and they decided to trade him ( which i dont think they will)
Your fine i do it all the time,
And i completely agree with you, He also plays excellent defense and will be more likely to get since he will be dealt its just a matter of when and Albert is little a teams wet dream to have on thereteam but he wont get traded nor do i think he will play for another team and another firstbasemen to watch for is Prince Fielder if something happens and they decided to trade him ( which i dont think they will)
Oh, may bad. I suck at multi-tasking.
TBH, if a team needed a 1B, I think A-Gone makes more sense because he’s younger and will be cheaper in dollars and player personnel assets that would have to be surrendered.
Your not getting what i meant lol, i meant the yankees is the only want who wouldn’t trade there first basemen for Pujols and im fully aware of Tex’s no trade clause he loves New York and New York loves him, i dont think he will ever be traded
Teix has a full no trade. So you’re wrong about that, but I agree that the “report” is not factual.
This has to be one of the must bullshit reports that ive ever heard i mean this makes absolutely makes no sense for the cardinals im sure any team excluding the yankees would give up there first basemen for Big Al.As a cards fan this probably wants to make you bang your head against the wall and say buster olney is a complete idiot which he completely is. It sounds like some one at the phillies office has been smoking ganja or became a over night alcoholic
i am amazed at how ridiculously pujols is being valued here…
you are? im pretty sure everyone agrees pujols is worth about twice as much as howard.
you are? im pretty sure everyone agrees pujols is worth about twice as much as howard.
Well, it’s good to see you’re not getting defensive about your favorite team’s players and letting that cloud your judgment or anything.
I don’t think he was saying Albert Pujols isn’t much better than Ryan Howard just that some comments, such as trading Pujols for Howard AND Utley, are ridiculous (Not that I think those comments were serious but that would be entirely absurd even when talking about a player as good as Pujols).
Anyway, I’ll eat my own hands if this trade happens.
Oh great, Olney’s going to read this thread now and in two days, he’ll post a report saying “Sources indicate a Pujols for Howard and Utley swap is in the works”
You’re right, I shouldn’t give him any more ideas. Sorry guys…
Oh great, Olney’s going to read this thread now and in two days, he’ll post a report saying “Sources indicate a Pujols for Howard and Utley swap is in the works”
I don’t think he was saying Albert Pujols isn’t much better than Ryan Howard just that some comments, such as trading Pujols for Howard AND Utley, are ridiculous (Not that I think those comments were serious but that would be entirely absurd even when talking about a player as good as Pujols).
Anyway, I’ll eat my own hands if this trade happens.
Well, it’s good to see you’re not getting defensive about your favorite team’s players and letting that cloud your judgment or anything.
i Dont think you see how much Albert means to this cardinals team, he is the best hitter of our generation how can you not over value him, dont get me wrong Ryan Howard is a great hitter but he’s not on the elite level of Pujols is and nobody is expect maybe A-rod years back and the roids with texas but still , it would take howard and drabek,Brown, and more maybe its a very hard thing to do is gauge a value in Pujols
drabek is on the blue jays now. their only top prospect left is dom brown, which is a good prospect, but means little to the cardinals who already have a filled outfield for the next 3+ years.
you are correct about drabek sorry about that lol yea dominic brown is the best prospect they have and the cards dont really need him, i think the phillies dont have the farm to pull off another big trade
you are correct about drabek sorry about that lol yea dominic brown is the best prospect they have and the cards dont really need him, i think the phillies dont have the farm to pull off another big trade
drabek is on the blue jays now. their only top prospect left is dom brown, which is a good prospect, but means little to the cardinals who already have a filled outfield for the next 3+ years.
i Dont think you see how much Albert means to this cardinals team, he is the best hitter of our generation how can you not over value him, dont get me wrong Ryan Howard is a great hitter but he’s not on the elite level of Pujols is and nobody is expect maybe A-rod years back and the roids with texas but still , it would take howard and drabek,Brown, and more maybe its a very hard thing to do is gauge a value in Pujols
Have you ever seen him play?
i am amazed at how ridiculously pujols is being valued here…
Okay, Buster, we’re paying attention to you.
Okay, Buster, we’re paying attention to you.
& people pay money for ESPN Insider!?!?
BAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
& people pay money for ESPN Insider!?!?
BAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
There is a 0% chance that such a trade happens.
Olney should be fired for even reporting this
Olney should be fired for even reporting this
Maybe the Cardinals think/know Pujols is really 36 years old.
Maybe the Cardinals think/know Pujols is really 36 years old.
no no no no no.
no no no no no.
not a homer but someone mentioned howard AND utley and that is incredibly stupid
not a homer but someone mentioned howard AND utley and that is incredibly stupid
*double facepalm*
*double facepalm*
Buster Olney is a moron.
Buster Olney is a moron.
the cardinals trading pujols would be like the yankees trading jeter. it makes no sense unless someone in the front office has been burning the midnight oil and taking the devil’s poison if you get what i mean.
The Yankees are going to regret giving Jeter a big dollar, long term contract. His defense is going to drop off and he will be hurting the team if they keep him at Short Stop.
Then, as far as his offense goes, he wont put up big enough numbers to play First (where Teixeira already is), Third Base (where A Rod already is), the corner Outfield spots or DH. Then, with a HUGE contract, they wont be able to trade him to any OTHER team either.
So, they will be stuck with an old guy making $20+ million dollars a year that doesn’t really have a position and who is hurting the team wherever you put him.
I know, I watched the Reds do this with Barry Larkin and King Griffey Jr.
The Yankees are going to regret giving Jeter a big dollar, long term contract. His defense is going to drop off and he will be hurting the team if they keep him at Short Stop.
Then, as far as his offense goes, he wont put up big enough numbers to play First (where Teixeira already is), Third Base (where A Rod already is), the corner Outfield spots or DH. Then, with a HUGE contract, they wont be able to trade him to any OTHER team either.
So, they will be stuck with an old guy making $20+ million dollars a year that doesn’t really have a position and who is hurting the team wherever you put him.
I know, I watched the Reds do this with Barry Larkin and King Griffey Jr.
the cardinals trading pujols would be like the yankees trading jeter. it makes no sense unless someone in the front office has been burning the midnight oil and taking the devil’s poison if you get what i mean.
For those who think this deal might be impossible, back in the 1940’s, the Yankees and Red Sox talked about trading Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio. The rational being that DiMaggio’s swing was better fit for the Green Monster and Williams’s swing was better fit for the short porch in Right Field Yankee Stadium.
The deal didn’t go down because neither ownership or management group wanted to face their fans if the OTHER team got the better end of the deal.
This was what I was worried about when the Cardinals bid against themselves and overpaid for Holliday; that somehow they wouldn’t be able to keep Pujols for the long term.
That’s the thing. If that happened (DiMaggio/Williams), there possibly would have been benefit for both teams.
What would the Cardinals gain here? Howard is the same age as Pujols so the age is null. The money could be considered but if you are going to spend the money on Howard, you’d have be crazy to not spend the extra for Pujols.
That’s the point-the money.
If the Cardinals don’t feel like they can raise the team payroll to over $100 million dollars a year and pay Hollliday and Pujols between $40 to 50 million a year (while trying to keep Carpenter, Wainwright, etc) and be competitve, then they might HAVE to trade Pujols. Unless, that is, he takes FAR LESS than market value to stay in ST Louis.
That’s the point-the money.
If the Cardinals don’t feel like they can raise the team payroll to over $100 million dollars a year and pay Hollliday and Pujols between $40 to 50 million a year (while trying to keep Carpenter, Wainwright, etc) and be competitve, then they might HAVE to trade Pujols. Unless, that is, he takes FAR LESS than market value to stay in ST Louis.
Look, if Pujols is going to get an eight year, $200 million (or more) dollar deal wheras Howard might only get an eight year, $160 million dollar deal, the Cardinals might feel like Howard plus whoever they can get for the extra money would be ALMOST as good as Pujols by himself.
Look, if Pujols is going to get an eight year, $200 million (or more) dollar deal wheras Howard might only get an eight year, $160 million dollar deal, the Cardinals might feel like Howard plus whoever they can get for the extra money would be ALMOST as good as Pujols by himself.
That’s the thing. If that happened (DiMaggio/Williams), there possibly would have been benefit for both teams.
What would the Cardinals gain here? Howard is the same age as Pujols so the age is null. The money could be considered but if you are going to spend the money on Howard, you’d have be crazy to not spend the extra for Pujols.
I understand the logic, but what’s the advantage? The only thing I can think of is money, and that’s it. Howard might make a little less (About 5-10 million) than Albert, but you might as well make up the difference for an all time great.
I understand the logic, but what’s the advantage? The only thing I can think of is money, and that’s it. Howard might make a little less (About 5-10 million) than Albert, but you might as well make up the difference for an all time great.
For those who think this deal might be impossible, back in the 1940’s, the Yankees and Red Sox talked about trading Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio. The rational being that DiMaggio’s swing was better fit for the Green Monster and Williams’s swing was better fit for the short porch in Right Field Yankee Stadium.
The deal didn’t go down because neither ownership or management group wanted to face their fans if the OTHER team got the better end of the deal.
This was what I was worried about when the Cardinals bid against themselves and overpaid for Holliday; that somehow they wouldn’t be able to keep Pujols for the long term.
Maybe if we could work out a three-way where we also get Hanley Ramirez from Fla with Philly paying 75% of his contract for the next 10 years? Ramirez, Howard, and 2 Top Pitching Prospects and 2 Draft Picks (Best Avail). I’d say go for it. lol
Maybe if we could work out a three-way where we also get Hanley Ramirez from Fla with Philly paying 75% of his contract for the next 10 years? Ramirez, Howard, and 2 Top Pitching Prospects and 2 Draft Picks (Best Avail). I’d say go for it. lol
Heard the Nationals were considering an Adam Kennedey for Dustin Pedroia trade too.
Heard the Nationals were considering an Adam Kennedey for Dustin Pedroia trade too.
Fans who say this will never happen are whistling past the graveyard. There will come a day when Albert Pujols is not with the Cardinals. The front of the uniform says “Cardinals”, not “Pujols”. If the Cards think they will lose him in two years, they should definitely consider a trade like this. If they let him walk and get nothing for him, these same fans will will be asking why they didn’t trade him.
I don’t think the fans would like the “hometown” Ryan Howard much if he showed up because of an Albert Pujols trade.
I don’t think the fans would like the “hometown” Ryan Howard much if he showed up because of an Albert Pujols trade.
the only thing i can fathom is that st. Louis realizes they probably have no chance to re-sign pujols when his contract is up but maybe they feel like they could possibly re-sign howard. and the phillies might believe they have no chance of signing either of this guys after their contracts are up. so st. louis will trade someone who is obviously better and suffer short-term in order to possibly secure a good slugging first baseman long-term and the phillies will give the cards long-term security for a short-term upgrade. that is the only logic i can possibly think of. but i, like everyone else here, was pretty much floored by the ridiculousness of this trade idea
People miss the point that both Howard and Pujols will hit free agency at the same time if neither gets an extension. How would having a player like Howard in the same free agent class impact Pujols’ free agency if neither get extensions before 2011 offseason?
I think Pujols will be resigned by this time next year, but I hadn’t considered that both would be in the same free agent class before…
the only thing i can fathom is that st. Louis realizes they probably have no chance to re-sign pujols when his contract is up but maybe they feel like they could possibly re-sign howard. and the phillies might believe they have no chance of signing either of this guys after their contracts are up. so st. louis will trade someone who is obviously better and suffer short-term in order to possibly secure a good slugging first baseman long-term and the phillies will give the cards long-term security for a short-term upgrade. that is the only logic i can possibly think of. but i, like everyone else here, was pretty much floored by the ridiculousness of this trade idea
well i think salary is irrelevant since pujols said he would take a pay cut to stay in St. Louis
This is the dumbest rumor I have ever read.
In case anybody’s forgot original question: Is A Howard-Pujols Swap Realistic?
No.
I can see this being true, its not a bad idea on the Cardinals behalf to at least ask. If they cannot secure Pujols because he is to expensive, then they trade him for a guy they know they can sign and get alot of home run production. If I were the Philly GM, i keep pushing this because this makes them the best team in the MLB if it comes to light. At the same time, i have a hard time believing the Cards want to trade within the league when a team like Boston or New York would throw the sink at the Cards for Albert
Yankees have nowhere for Albert. Red Sox could trade for him but they’d have to wait a year longer than trying to get Adrian Gonzalez.
*Red Sox could try to trade for him. Don’t want to sound like one of those people who thinks the Red Sox can offer any trade and get it accepted.
Every single team has room for Albert even the yankees
If im the phillies and this is legit. I do it in aheart beat even if i have to give up top prospects. Albert is the best 1st basemen playing the game right now and is pretty close to being the best ever to play the position. He helps the phills becuase 1st and foremost he is infinatly better than howard( dont get me wrong howard is a beast) but albert hits for a much better avg albert career .330 avg vs ryan .279) He hits a little bit more home runs, he hits more doubles. Albert strikes out 1/3rd as many times as howard and is a much much much better defensive first basemen….Also with albert being right handed he can help break up the leftys in the phillie if there was some reason the cards would ever do this their GM would get fired in a heart beat and the phillies would have the world series locked for years to come
Best first baseman in the game today? yes
Best of the decade? yes
Best at the position all time? NO
He’s 30, his career isn’t close to the end. Injuries could destroy his career. That’s a huge leap, and it’s way too soon to say anything close to that. Wait till he plays atleast 8 more years, and keep these kind of years up.
After getting it beaten into my skull, I think by Ferrariman, AVG is an overrated stat.
CAREER OBP/OPS STATS
Ryan Howard – .376/.961
Albert Pujols – .427/1.055
Not to mention, getting a 1.000 OPS is rather insane and Albert has done it 7 times in 9 seasons, his lowest being .955 [the other being .997]. Howard has only crossed the .955 OPS twice in his career. Pujols can steal you 15 bags as well to even further increase his value. 44 intentional walks last year is mindboggling too.
Howard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Pujols seems about right.
I would not say average is over rated at all…explain that please…yes obp and ops are probably looked on more highly but i will take a .300+ hitter who hits 30 homers over a .250 who hit 45 hr any day…a higher average helps the obp and ops so average cant be overrated…..a stat that is over rated Wins for pitchers, thats over rated , wins should be a team stat a guy can pitch a no hitter and still lose because of bad defense behind him and on the same day a guy can give up 30 hits and still win because of his teams offense THATS over rated…..AVERAGE is not over rated, its just not rated as high as obp and ops
The object of an at-bat is to not create an out, hence OBP. Hitting is the most common way to get on base, but asformentioned, to not create an out. Seeing as I’m stating AVG is less important than OBP, I don’t see how home runs have any relivance.
AVERAGE is not over rated, its just not rated as high as obp and ops
It’s not like I said AVG is completely useless. But with your arguement, it’s like you’re saying a single is more important than a walk. How so? Either way your OBP increases the same and you get to 1st base. The only difference is the single adds to your TB’s.
The only way my arguement can be thrown at me is if a player hits .500 and doesn’t take a single walk.
I would take a .250AVG with a .400+OBP and .950+OPS any day.
I do agree that wins/losses for pitchers are even more useless, but that’s how the American announcers like to talk up pitchers so…
The American Announcers? As opposed to the Canadian and Japanese?
I’m not arguing with your point about obp being more important than avg, but a single is definitely more important than a walk. The point of the game is to get runs and most walks do not drive in runs.
Oh I completely agree. I was comparing them though in the sense of 1:1, not in an RBI situation.
If ryan howard gets traded any where its to the AL for a few reason, 1- he can DH which is where he belongs. 2- its more rare for him to come around and hurt the phillies in the season. And lets not forget IF and huge IF he gets traded its to clear money to resign werth
dude you have it backwards. werth’s contract is over at the end of the season, and if he has another 30hr 100 rbi season, he will command something similar to a jason bay deal next year onthe open market. especially w crawford as the only other decent OF. If the phils dont fork out the money to resign werth, its probably to have more money for howard…not the way you said it…werth is good, but the phils have guys that can replace him (ala dom brown). he is much easier to replace than ryan howard, especially if you just look at the phillies farm system–its loaded with outfielders. i mean hell, ruben couldnt even PRETEND to sound optimistic about resigning werth when asked about it–he cried poverty almost instantly
Phantom “Like” hits left and right..
Pujols is their Mauer.
He will MOST likely take a discount to stay in St. Louis.
The Phils personally to me had a confusing and pointless offseason. Polanco…Baez…really?
Even with Halladay and his tutelage skills, the Phils rotation this season is mediocre at best. I mean is any respectable line-up really threatened by the likes of Hamels, Blanton, or Happ? And their bullpen is also atrocious.
But all this translates into NL Champs because the NL is lightyears behind the AL in talent. This will allow the Phillies to run a monopoly on the NL for years to come.
Hopefully they don’t get Pujols because if they do it will make it just a bit harder for us Yanks to pulverize you in the WS again.
Halladay will help their rotation i just dont understand why they got rid of lee, they had the money i know they wanted to re-up their farm but if you can go halladay-lee-hammels thats pretty legit. Polanco will be very very good for them still over paid but good. Hammels had alot going on last season and should return to young ace form Blanton is nothing but consistent and an innings eater and Happ is a good young pitcher, dont count out a smoltz or pedro signing mid season if needed…but that being said there is still no way anyone traded pujols straight up for anyone
it would seem pointless to a yankees fan, who never has had to hear about a “budget” or the “business” part of the game. hey, id love to go buy all my players too, then maybe we would have more than an average rotation to take into the world series
didnt the holliday deal have a ton of money differed for like 15 years so that way they can have solid protection locked up and still have flexibility? My guess is depending on how the cards do in the post season in the next few years Albert does take a home town discount. He has said ever since signing his huge deal hat is about to end. “its not about money its about winning again” He was out there saying he has his money now he wants to win. With differed money deal becoming more and more popular i bet he take a long term deal with them 5+ yrs at something like 15 mill a season, then gets a huge chunk differed for after the 5yrs are over, much like hollidays or even todd heltons recent deal.
I bet that neither player stay their entire career on their teams, They pull a griffey and come back to their start franchise for a season or two at the end. But i bet both of them (albert more likely) stay in the NL for 4 yrs then spend 3-4 in the AL as DH(assuming they simply dont want to retire) then go home for a season or two to end it where it started.. I will say this though, neither has a violent swing, both are very smooths, sweet and nice to watch. Albert uses his legs more where as Ryan uses his whole body more, thus makign alberts swing a bit better, but neither has a back breaking swin like morneu so they will both be around for a while
Next up: The Cardinals and Angels are discussing a deal that would ship Adam Wainwright to Anaheim for a package centered around Nick Adenhart.
dude come on…too soon…way too soon….we all know it would be a straight up deal for wainwright for lackey ha…but come on dude dont go that low to bring adenhart in…not cool bro.
(Oops — I hit “like” instead of “reply”)
Perhaps it’s too soon — I admit I have a dark sense of humor — but my point of it being a ridiculous deal still stands.
i totally did not mean to “like” that but I think you may want to edit this post bud…
DUDE that’s not cool it’s too soon.
Even if the Cardinals decided to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on a Pujy trade, they’d be better served to wait for A-Gon to get moved to set the market. Granted, that may take the BoSox (or another obvious suitor) out of the running, but something tells me AL teams would be lining up to take their shot.
Buster Olney is more full of c**p then a thanksgiving turkey.
This is the funniest/stupidest/most-absurd article I’ve ever read on this site.
0 % chance this happens……………… Just let the season start already.
But if it DID happen…………………. The STL fanbase would REVOLT. Pujols IS the face of the franchise and he basically is a human embodiment of St. Louis at this point. I guarantee the STL fans would never accept this, no matter how well Ryan Howard produced. Pujols dominates the game in the way only perhaps 5 or 6 other athletes have been able to do with their respective sports in all of recent history….(Jordan, Ruth, Woods, Gretzky.)
Even if Ryan Howard did come here for Pujols, he would be stuck with that awful burden of being “that guy who was traded for Pujols,” and he would never be able to totally fill those shoes. Despite Howard being from STL, the fan base would always keep it in the back of their minds that they lost Pujols to get this guy. No amount of production from Howard could reconcile the loss of Pujols(provided Pujols keeps up his current level of production.) In any case, even Howard + good prospects would not be worth it.
Howard benefits from playing in a hitters park and batting in a loaded lineup. His defense is shambles compared to the defense that Pujols provides. And the difference between the 2 with regards to strikeouts and BA…………. Pujols puts Howard to shame. They aren’t even close talent-wise. Even throwing in, say, Utley and Happ would not even make the deal palatable.
Howard will give you roughly 10 more HR’s a year, and 10 more RBI’s than Pujols, and how much of that is thanks to the difference in stadiums/lineups? Pujols routinely excells Howard in nearly every other positive statistical category. Pujols’s leadership and character quality is off the charts as well and is by itself worth several mil.
I’d rather make every effort to sign him. That way if he walks, it would be easier to digest(greed,) than if we just threw up our hands in resignation and gave him away without even trying. If Pujols turned down a good or fair offer from the Card’s FO, it would be much easier to swallow than if we were just ridiculously outbid by a club like Boston. If Pujols merely wants to go like a mercenary to somewhere that throws an absurdly bloated deal that STL can’t match, then he can go for all I care.
I feel almost totally confident though that Pujols will be a Cardinal for life.
Oh come on. I know Pujols is one of the best to ever play the game but saying getting Howard, Utley, and Happ for him is still a bad deal is a little ridiculous. Utley and Howard alone give you enough wins to make up for Albert even without another player thrown in and without even considering the fact that Utley is locked up at a good price for a few more years. It’s almost impossible to overvalue Albert Pujols but I would say you did.
All that said, naturally I agree that Pujols and Howard are in different leagues and that Buster Olney is talking nonsense.
What he is doing there is making a point by throwing out a crazy trade suggestion to prove how valuable Pujols is to St. Louis. Yes, wins-value wise, plus any other way you throw it, Utley+Howard would be better to have on your team than Pujols. He’s saying that because of the all-around talent that Pujols is, the fact that players like Pujols come around every…never, and because of his HUGE impact on the fanbase, there is no way that St. Louis could trade him, EVEN for Utley/Howard. Sure, maybe they’re worried about free agency, but I think they’re going to have to bite the bullet on this one, and let him go to FA if he wants, and bid their darndest. Plus, for Utley/Howard, St. Louis doesn’t really save much (even if it’s a bit more bang for your buck on the field) compared to just signing Pujols to a huge deal. Plus with all the fans that Pujols alone draws in, it’s financially more prudent in that situation to keep Pujols.
Unless you can find a couple Evan Longorias or Adrian Gonzalez’s (with more years left than AGon though) that a team is willing to trade for Pujols, I can’t really see any way around it that St. Louis would ever be interested in such a trade.
Yeah, I definitely agree with your assessment. Maybe the previous poster was just throwing out crazy suggestions, but I have seen enough people mention a Pujols for Utley+Howard swap in this thread that I felt like I shouldn’t defend those two, at least from a purely statistical standpoint. The intangibles definitely make it impossible for St. Louis to trade Pujols; I’m just saying that if I was putting together a winning team and I had to pick between getting Pujols and neither Utley or Howard or getting Utley and Howard but not Pujols, I’d go with the latter option (provided of course another superstar second baseman wasn’t in the picture to complement Albert).
Anyway, such a trade makes as little, if not less, sense for the Phillies. Sure, we’d be upgrading at first base by a lot, but the infield overall would be weaker. And just like St. Louis, we’d be trading away the soul of our team.
I can not agree more. Even if there was a trade that made baseball sense the backlash would be unbelievable. No matter who they got in the trade they lose so much in ticket sales it might be better to let him walk.
The Cardinals are INTERNALLY discussing this deal, too, except that the Phillies are offering Hamels and Halliday along with Howard, and the Cards are offering Jason LaRue.
We’re not trading Mudflap! The nickname is as valuable to the team as Brendan Ryan’s mustache. 🙂
Hey, it makes a great story, and of course would rile up the Philly faithful into talking about this all year. Unfortunately I doubt very highly Pujols goes for JUST Howard. Yes I know they are both power 1B’s. But the difference in Puljols and Howard is vast and clear. Even from just a PR stance. Howard could be considered part of the face of the Phillies. Yet Puljols alone is arguably the face of MLB. This is one of those trades that may look fine on paper from a one year PHI point of view. But STL would be in an uproar.
NTM, their AVG and OBP are night and day, and for the immediate future Howard would cost more. While Puljols would cost more tin the long run, he has stated he is going to test FA. So it doesn’t matter where he goes, he is going FA. I doubt VERY highly the Phillies would trade Howard + just for a rent of Puljols. And I doubt very highly that Puljols accepts an extension before FA. Sorry Philly fans, don;t even bother.
This trade might make sense if Pujols wasn’t twice the player Howard is.
i agree with everyone on here….this trade is actually realistic if you look at it and could potentially benefit both parties
but seriously now…..IF ryan howard signs a longer term deal in the NL, it will be with the phillies. his body type and defensive mediocrity is MUCH more destined for the AL DH role than is the specimen of albert pujols. So, as a phillies fan, i would love to resign ryan howard, but if mgmt is hesitant to fork out 100mil for 4 years of him…i can sort of, kind of, maybe slightly stomach it…kinda like the lee deal…i want to keep em, but sometimes the business part (prospects w lee, money w howard) interfere with the FAN part. if howard doestn resign he’ll get a nice contract from the angels or whitesox or whoever misses out on adrian.
i just dont understand how stl can even begin to talk about money in regards to pujols monster contract. if this is the case, why fork out all that money on holliday???? it really doestn make sense to me…i could easily see pujols w the cards for life, but the holliday investment sure makes it an interesting financial decision for the cards…i dont get it…they were a contender w/out matt holliday. they will not contend without albert pujols
I agree, that especially because Holliday, it’s hard to believe that the factor for a crazy trade like this would have to be stl being worried about money. However, I think it is -because- of the Holliday deal that they’re having this problem…and I also agree that the holliday investment is questionable for St. Louis. Holliday is a good player, but he might handcuff them in their proceedings with Pujols, the best player in the majors.
You don’t trade a player like Albert…EVER. A player of his caliber comes along once in a lifetime. Pujols is the face of the franchise and the face of St. Louis. The fans here worship him. With the FO so concerned with making money, trading him or not resigning him would be a terrible business decision even if it costs the FO an A-Rod contract. He’s well-worth it.
IF there were to be ANY reason for Pujols to hit the open market/be traded, then Mozeliak should be fired immediately.
No way you commit 120MM to Holliday if that would remotely put the club’s ability to keep Pujols at risk.
Ok obviously Pujols for Howard is a ridiculous suggestion, but how about Pujols and Schumaker for Howard and Utley? I’m as die hard as a cards fan as you can get and I don’t know if I’d say no to that trade.
There’s the problem…that doesn’t make the Phils a better team IMO.
Pujols is great, but the only way the Phils improve is to have Utley-Pujols in the lineup. That’s why this will never happen.
It’s all speculation, Pujols will retire a cardinal, trading him would be up there with trading Babe Ruth for cash. I’m just commenting about who would win in that trade for overall talent.
This is a misleading rumor. The reported story is that the Phillie’s talked about whether or not they could trade for Albert. Yeah everybody else with a payroll north of 60 million has thought about whether or not they could trade for Albert. This is a non-story and frankly it’s irresponsible for Buster Olney to report this knowing full well that it is not a plausible rumor. He obviously has been spending all his time doing drugs, drinking, gambling or hookers. Because what he hasn’t been doing is thorough investigative journalism. The ESPN guys came to him and said hey you haven’t been at work in a week what have you been doing. He felt the need to invent some fantastical rumor that he’s been investigating in order to cover up for not doing his job.
So which is it…You can only enjouy babseball when the Yanks win it (once in 10 years), or i need to get life? You are very contradictory in your posts..
“enjoy watching the Yanks win it all this year”
Or I am a jealous loser cause my team didnt win it 1 of the last 10 years? Which is it?
Keep posting.
Keep making yourself out to be an ignorant ass.
One question. When the Yanks didnt win anything the 9 years previous to this past season, were you some loser cheering for a losing team? Or does your own logic not apply to you?
Cause if it does, wouldnt that make you a jealous loser 9 of the last 10????
Keep posting ARod….
This post has to be the most idiotic one i have seen. There is not one human being in the Cardinals FO, willing to put his name next to a Albert Pujols trade. Not only the athlete, but just as much so as him being the part of St. Louis that he is. It’s a career suicide move and idea. St. Louis would burn to the ground! Plain and Simple!
I’m not surprised the Phillies have had this discussion internally. If you were in their position–that is, have a very popular player with a very big contract who’s going to be a FA after next season–wouldn’t you be looking at all possible solutions to that problem? From the Phillies side of the equation, they may be saying, “Look, if we’re going to have to pay more than $20 million per year long term, wouldn’t we rather have a Pujols who might still be playing at a high level a few years from how instead of Howard, whose body type suggests he’ll begin to decline in a couple of years?” The problem is that the Cardinals would not trade Pujols for Howard straight up, and the more the Phillies would have to add to sweeten the deal, the less attractive it would become for them. The thing that makes this rumor interesting at all is the fact that Howard is from St. Louis, and he might be the only one the Cardinals could trade Pujols for who the St. Louis fans would end up embracing.
I don’t see a Pujols for Howard package happening. Then again, if Pujols asks for terms that the Cards can not match, they have no other choice than to explore a trade. My feeling is Albert stays. Until it gets done, anything can happen.
I can totally see this deal going down. Howard will give you 45+ homeruns a season, and pujols will only give about 40. It’s soo worth it. As a cardinals fan i’m totally down for this deal =] Go Howard! He’s my favorite first baseman
there is nobody in baeball worth trading Albert Pujols. I think that you would see 8 of an soild organization’s top 10 prospects to get the cardinals talking. Ryan Howard would be nowhere close to enough.
Not seeing it happen. Cards wouldn’t accept it. Maybe, on my side, Phils would give up a little more, like Hamels or a few prospects. I’d get a kick out of it if it did happen. Ha