The Twins signed Orlando Hudson to a one-year $5MM deal. The contract, which doesn't include incentives, dictates that the Twins can't offer Hudson arbitration if he is a Type A free agent.
Hudson will take over at second base for Nick Punto, who played the position from mid-June until the end of the season. Punto posted a solid 9.4 UZR/150 as the Twins' second baseman, but hit just .228/.337/.284 with one homer on the year.
In 149 games for the Dodgers last season, the 32-year-old Hudson hit .283/.357/.417 with 9 HRs. While he holds a career UZR/150 of 2.6, he posted a -7.6 in 2008 and -3.7 in 2009.
The Nationals and Indians were also pursuing Hudson. Washington promptly agreed to a deal with Adam Kennedy once Hudson agreed to a contract with the Twins.
Curtis Kitchen of WHB Radio in Kansas City first tweeted that Hudson had reached an agreement with the Twins. ESPN.com's Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweeted contract details.
Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.
Oh, well. Good bye Orlando. It would have been great having you on the Nats. You have clearly been waiting for someone you like better to make you an offer.
This would also be the time for usual chorus of “Omar blows it again!” and “what could have been!” by Mets fans. Allow me.
Awesome. Super awesome.
Lets just hope K-Rod strikes out A-Rod next time.
Can’t lose our sense of humor and irony, if you know what I mean (which obviously you do).
Oh – and that’s “A-roid” to me.
If the Twins get him, it would be AMAZING!
It is amazing and it’s finally OFFICIAL!
Congratulations, Twins Fans!
you bet, This is an incredible signing!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell yeah it would be amazing! I’ve been ranting about this on the Twins blogs all winter!!
Just a tremendous signing!
Hudson was great in the first half, but was dismal in the 2nd half offensively. He will be a downgrade to Punto on defense, but an upgrade (even if slight) on offense.
Downgrade? Are you kidding? O-Dog has won 3 gold gloves. How many does Punto have?
Because I saw Hudson play last season and I know he has sure hands but not a ton of range. Punto had all the range in the world, thus getting to more balls than Hudson would. Gold Gloves are a joke.
Love when players say they won’t play for certain teams…I don’t get that
Would have loved to see Hudson on the Nats. oh well.
I personally would never let that get out. For instance when he is 35-36 and not a starter and maybe the only team that might want you is the nats, then what?
Theres always the chance that may cost you money. Lots of money…why do players do that. wierd? Ownership or the GM may say, oh yeah this is the guy that didn’t want us when we were bad….oh ok you know what we’ll sign this other guy.
Its called marketing yourself…not a good job by Hudson….may be better for the Nats to stay away from this guy and stick with Desmond and Guzman. Its not like we needn’t one last piece. I got to say if I was GM he would never play for my team because of the way he handled this. Never ever….just me
I’m kinda rooting against him this year, I know its selfish, but I’d like to see him not do so well.
Dude! It’s not like the guy is taking less to play with the Twins. Unless the blurbs are completely wrong, the Twins are out bidding the Nats by a few million dollars – that’s almost twice what the Nats offered.
Let’s hope this is legit.
Hudson is the missing piece for the Twins right now…
i think the are missing a little more than a second baseman
Such as?!
They’ve got a solid young rotation that runs about six or seven deep right now.
They’ve got a very good, re-loaded bullpen.
They’ve got one of the AL’s best lineups.
The Twinkies are in pretty good shape.
since when do they have one of the best lineups?they’re probably slightly above average (maybe 5th or 6th best) in the AL…But yea, they have a good team; almost guaranteed a playoff spot
the twins will field the best lineup in the majors against right handers
Expand ⇗Verified
twins2 42 minutes ago in reply to Ben Chiasson
the twins will field the best lineup in the majors against right handers
Actually… That honor goes to the Phillies.
Rollins – SH
Polanco – RH
Utley – LH
Howard – LH
Werth – RH
Ibanez – LH
Victorino – SH
Scheidner – LH (will split time with RH Ruiz at C)
Bench
Gload – LH (led all PH in baseball in 2009)
Dobbs – LH (led all PH in baseball in 2008)
For now. Schafer – L, Prado – R, Chipper – S, Heyward – L, McCann – L, Yunel -R, McLouth – L, Freeman – L in 2011 or 2012 should prove very strong against Righties, but it’s hard to beat Utley and Howard’s 1-2 punch against Righties.
Of course Heyward behind Chipper would be 2012.
Since last season when they ranked like among the best in all of baseball and if they add Hudson, all they’ve done is get better.
On paper, they figure to rank right behind New York in the AL. I wish they had some more right-handed power, but you take what you can get…
Lol, you are pretty delusional aren’t you?
How do you figure?
The Twins were in the Top Four in the AL in AVG, OBP, R, H, 3B, RBI, BB and K last year. That includes missing a month of Morneau, a month of Mauer, and having black-holes like Punto, Young, Harris, Casilla, Tolbert, and Gomez in the lineup for most of the year.
Explain to me how I’m delusional?! The club has Morneau and Mauer healthy, the club added a REAL number two hitter and JJ Hardy and Delmon Young is finally coming around.
Enlighten me as to how I’m delusional…
Regression, it’s a real thing. Experts don’t expect Mauer to put up his 2009 year again, and rightfully so. He’s a catcher, and the season he had just doesn’t happen to catchers. The wear and tear of playing a whole season at catcher will bring his numbers down in 2010, maybe not much, but I would expect some. Of course there are others who are due to get better, but I’m not sure I’d bet on Kubel OPSing .900 next year.
Mauer and Kubel are both entering their prime. Either one could regress a little, but they’ve added more offense in Hardy, Thome, and Hudson.
I can’t see how a club that WAS one of the best in the AL a year ago suddenly gets worse with more talent.
I still fail to see how I qualify as “delusional”…
regression? maybe a little but dont give me this crap about wear and tear while that may be true he still has won 3 of the last 4 batting titles
I’m not saying they are bad. they could use a legit starter (a lot of pretty good young guys i dont think is that great, but not bad). not sure who their third baseman is. not a big Hardy fan either. the twins will win the division probably, but i dont think they have what it takes to win a playoff series
anything can happen in the playoffs, especially if Phil Cuzzi is umping the left field line.
Punto will probably be the third basemen.
Harris will be the everyday 3rd baseman. Gardy has already said he’s the guy.
the best two starters are most likely Slowey and Baker. Don’t expect either to be Cy Young caliber, but, in their prime they are capable of being like 16-10 with an ERA of 3.5 with 175 K’s
Don’t forget about Blackburn. The past two years he has been one of the most consistent starters. And for a sinkerballer, he’s been pretty impressive.
Such as?
agreed. Hudson and his personality will fit in great with the Twins!
Hudson is the missing piece? I’m pretty sure a mid 2 WAR 2B isn’t the piece of the puzzle the Twins need to make it to the World Series. From what it looks like the pitching is very lacking in terms of TOR starters, and it’s a bunch of 2-4 starters.
The rotation is fine. They go like seven starters deep. You don’t need to throw out a CC Sabathia everyday to be a winning ballclub. The offense is primed for a huge year and the rotation and bullpen are in far better shape than they were a year ago.
If Liriano can keep his DWL success going, the club has it’s frontline starter and Baker is working his way to the next level as well.
look at it this way. if u put hudson in our lineup last year and we only win a total of two more games. that means no major extra inning 163rd game. they get rested for the yankee series. they may have still lost but those extra two games help us a lot
I wonder if Hudson is also scared of losing his job to Desmond later in the year like he did to Belliard. I don’t think Castila or Tolbert pose the same threat.
You mean Casilla and .186 Tolbert? Hope not. Hudson’s 2010 VORP is at 15.8, the current crop of talent checks in at 3.0 (Casilla), 1.7 (Tolbert) and -0.8 (Punto).
That’s right kids – the starter has a negative VORP. Yes Minny, you NEED Hudson or Lopez.
Punto was trash on offense (though he could get on base), but his fielding in 09 was very good.
He lost his job because Torre went with the hot hand. Hudson was among the League leader in hits and batting avg. at the all star break. after the all star break he was not hitting well. I wish the dodgers would have resigned him but there was bad blood. According to Hudson Torre benched him and never told him why. I do find it interesting that no one will give him a multi year deal. He is one of the better second baseman around. Good luck Orlando gonna miss you in LA.
he lost his job because of money. he had clauses in his contract he was close to getting which would have given him a lot of money. they were winning with belliard so they made the move to save money
Well, they’re making it interesting here. A great lineup, a solid rotation. I can see them winning the Central again this year with the Chisox and Tigers right behind them, it’s gonna be another helluva AL Central race this year! 🙂
The AL Central has the most exciting races in the entire League, I think!
The NL West race last year was pretty intense for the last month and a half. It was nerve-wrecking.
Yeah, it was active but I didn’t have much doubt the Halos were going to take it.
On the other hand, if you happen to be a Rangers fan, I understand you have to dream big, and I’m not stepping on that. It’s just that I couldn’t see how the pitching would be able to hold up.
That’s the AL West. I don’t think that was much of a race after June.
last years NL west race was a lot like the 2006 AL central race where you had two teams already in the playoff take it down to the last game of the season to decide who won the division and the twins like the rockies had a horrible start to the year
I am glad the Twins are close to signing Hudson. He is a way better option than Punto or Casilla. Maybe this will help Mauer with his extension. I can’t wait until the season starts!
Only 14 days ’til pitchers & catchers! YEAH!!
All three top AL Central teams look very good now. Twins out of money now or do you think they remain in the running for Washburn?
I doubt it, I just can’t see them spending $5MM on Washburn, especially if they want to extend Mauer.
I think that the Twins are completely done for free agents if they pick up Hudson. Casilla will be traded and Mauer will likely be extended but that’s likely the end of it for the Twins.
There’s no room, money, or need for Washburn.
They are six or seven deep in starters right now.
Yeah, why would they sign Washburn? It would make no sense after the Pavano re-sign and with Slowey, Baker, Blackburn, Duesing and Liriano. Hudson is a great signing for them though, dammit. (Tigers fan here.)
i agree, washburn makes no sense
We can only hope that they don’t spend on garbage like Washburn.
Get this done and you’ve easily got the best lineup in the AL Central, Twins… and one of the best in the AL in general.
Right on!
You bet!
Probably out of money, but don’t have a roster spot for Washburn anymore anyway. I don’t think they’ve been a player in that since resigning Pavano.
Wasting a rotation spot on Washburn for the Twins will have the same effect as when they wasted a roster spot on Livan Hernandez in 2008, 140 mediocre innings followed by missing the playoffs by 1 game.
“Mediocre” is being generous to Livan’s time in Minnesota… ugh
IIRC, he did start the year 6-0. Then proceeded to slump to 6-10 before the Twins finally dumped him…
Actually no. He started off 3-0, then ended off with a record of 10-8.
There really isn’t a whole lot of need for Washburn since Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Pavano are all slated for the rotation and Liriano/Duensing should be solid as the 5th starter. The Twins offered Washburn a deal before Pavano accepted arbitration so they likely will not go back to him now.
So what does that leave for Washburn? Hate to turn the discussion Mets-wise but he is the best they can hope for at this point. Unless him and Bedard both back to Seattle.
Oh man, I sure hope not. A lot has been made about the Twins pursuing Washburn. According to the Strib, the offer was made BEFORE Pavano accepted arbitration and they felt they needed a veteran presence. But Pavano accepted, so that need is filled.
With the exception of maybe a few minor league deals, I think the team is done.
washburn is a waste he is not worth 5 million unless its in incentives. We already have 4 lock rotation spots and 3 guys competing for the 5th spot. well 4 perkins is more than likely gone. and they will probably give the 5th spot to lirano
Might this mean they have a deal worked out with Mauer. Wonder if they worked out some kind of deferrment with Mauer on part of his extension to free up money for Hudson
I expect Adam Kennedy to get a phone call from Mike Rizzo momentarily. I don’t know if I like that. I am tired of the Nats being rejected, and tired of them signing rejects.
since when is Kennedy a reject?
He had a great season last year, better than Hudson’s – Hudson LOST his job to Belliard… I mean, come on…. Hudson is a great addition to the Twins, alot better than Casilla or Punto. But Kennedy or Hudson – they are both good.
Kennedy – 529 AB / 65 R / 153 H / 11 HR / 63 RBI / 20 SB / .289 IN 129 GAMES
Hudson – 551 AB / 74 R / 156 H / 9 HR / 62 RBI / 8 SB / .283 IN 145 GAMES
That said… I would have loved to see how the Twins would have made out against the Yankees in last year’s playoffs WITH Morneau….
Twins should be favorites to win the AL Central.
I’m not in a position to disagree with you, because I haven’t checked Kennedy’s stats in depth, but you are using runs, rbis, and average to judge players, which is just a fail in itself.
OBP and SLG% are 2 of the very most important numbers to judge hitters. I’m going to check fielding right now.
Kennedy – .749 OPS
Hudson – .774 OPS
Kennedy – -10 UZR
Hudson – -3 UZR
Kennedy – 1.7 WAR
Hudson – 2.9 WAR
Hudson was definitely better in 2009, he just tailed off in the 2nd half (must, actually, like i’ve heard Kennedy did).
PUNTOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Punto now plays 3b
That way he has a real good look at what baserunners are supposed to do when they get there. Everybody wins.
And he’s a better defensive 3B than 2B.
I think that you have to play Harris at 3b and let Punto do his real job, back up utility infielder.
But Gardy doesn’t work that way.
Have you seen Brendan Harris’ WAR?
You’re joking right?!
Harris is a TERRIBLE fielder everywhere on the diamond.
His career UZR/150 rankings are as follows:
2B: -6.8
3B: -19.6
SS: -9.9
and his OBP the last two years with the Twins is .319.
Punto’s UZR/150
2B: 3.9
3B: 19.9
SS: 18.1
OBP the last two years: .340…
Harris isn’t even a sufficient utility fielder, let alone a starter…
Well this is going to be a good AL Central battle between the Sox and Twins.
I enjoy this kind of enthusiasm in Chicago.
It will make seeing you 8 GB in August all the more enjoyable 🙂
And then your alarm clock will go off and you’ll wake up and realize that the Twins are under .500 and the White Sox are running away with it.
Are the Sox supposed to be afraid of twins because they signed Orlando Hudson? Boy, this is going to be a fun season. I’ll be in minny a lot this summer with my White Sox gear on…
Dream on that is unless your rotation of mid to back of the rotation starters lead you to the promise land. Bawahaha.
In all seriousness the Twins have to excellent offense but their is a ton of question marks in that rotation.
Promised land? You mean, like last year?
And Jim Hendry swoops in!!!!! 😀
Great pickup.
Twins had the AL Central even without him. He was a “want” and not a “need”, but I’ll gladly take him. This just increases the chances it takes the Yankees 4 games to knock us out of the playoffs this year; division pennant is a foregone conclusion.
Don’t look for Casilla to be gone. Great speed as a PR (esp handcuffed to Thome’s PH), and he could well be the 2b for 2011.
Agreed. We don’t have a proven 1-2 knockout pitching punch for the playoffs now, but we’ve got a season to develop one. This plugs our last true gap in our lineup/infield.
All that’s necessary now is to re-sign our crown jewel. And I think that’s more likely now than ever.
Gardy phasing out the piranhas at Target Field….pretty smart. Now they just need a real pitching staff…
Slowey was right there with Grienke and Doc last year with 10 wins, until he took one off the wrist. He’ll be back 100%.
Baker has long been projected as a future ace by the club – and the Twins have an eye for pitching talent.
Blackburn has been a solid #3 pitcher for two years.
Pavano had a winning record last year, even pitching for a terrible Cleveland club most of the season.
Liriano is looking like his 2006 version down in the winter leagues.
They may lack the “big name” pitchers, but don’t be surprised if Baker/Slowey don’t become household names by July, and the rotation is every bit as solid (top to bottom) as anyone in the AL Central.
Slowey- Won because of run support
Baker- The one guy I think is actually a stud pitcher in the staff
Blackburn-Showed more of his true side in the second half of the season, with an eye popping .323 BAA and a mid 5 ERA. I don’t really think he’s THAT bad, but I wouldn’t bank on him playing like his first half self.
Pavano- Not dependable at all, and even didn’t pitch well in a year he didn’t get hurt
Liriano- I’m not going to believe he’s back until I see major league proof.
Give me a break, Pavano having a winning record and Liriano dominating B level talent is weak. Facts are your stud pitcher Carl Pavano sported a 5+ era last year with opponents batting right around .300 against him and hasn’t posted respectable numbers since 2005. As for Liriano dominated sub-par talent doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that he hasn’t shown he can be productive for an entire season and he was beyond awful last year.
You can write whatever nonsense you want but if you truly believe your pitching staff is “as solid as anyone in the AL Central” you need to put down the Twin City koolaid and reevaluate your talent.
Liriano dominating B level talent should fit right in to pitching current lineups Sox lineup. With the Sox below average bullpen and bottom of the central line the Twins should win the central by 5 min.
well its not quite done yet lol
Does Casilla have any minor league options left? I think that’s the only way they don’t trade him if they sign Hudson.
I don’t believe so but I think Tolbert does so he is likely to be sent down if this happens.
Casilla is out of options.
Agree on Casilla – pack your bags Tolbert.
The Twins are likely to carry only a four-man bench. That would mean:
Morales (well, Ramos until Morales is healthy)
Harris
Thome
Casilla
I guess I have trouble seeing the Twins go north without someone besides Denard Span who can play CF. I think there’s a good chance that Pridie goes north and Casilla gets traded. I could be completely wrong, however. Who knows, maybe Gardenhire will run Cuddy out to CF when Span needs a day off…….
That is the dilemma. You really want Pridie on the bench to spell Span, but Casilla is still so young and cheap, with flashes of being a legit starter sprinkled in with flashes of immaturity.
I’d hope they go with a 5-man bench.
Casilla has had some nice spurts and streaks… but his overall numbers just don’t add up. He’s shown nothing over the long haul that demonstrates an ability to play well at the major league level.
His major league slash line is .244/.301/.314 over 806 ABs and he still hasn’t figured out fielding and baserunning despite his natural talent.
There’s the rub – Punto can play a corner if necessary but no one else can play CF. Think about that – Young, Cuddy and Kubel. Wow. Unhook the plow out there boys.
Wouldn’t shock me to see them move Casilla/Perkins for anything and bring Pridie up or move on a vet with some wheels until one of the OF kids is ready.
Harris gets the large majority of starts at 3B. Punto becomes SUPER utility man ala Jerry Hairston, backing up the CF as well as SS and 3B. Casilla makes the trip north, but Billy is on the phone constantly to trade him.
You know Gardy believes Punto can do it (which he probably can) and it makes the most sense from a long term roster management standpoint. Once Casilla is dealt, Pridie gets called up…unless Valencia is crushing of course.
Also, Butera starts with the big league squad if Morales can’t go. I would be really surprised if Ramos makes the jump from AA to MLB when he is simply a fill in. Now, should Morales go down in September, then Ramos gets the call. Ramos may get a September call up anyway.
NOTE: Punto has also played CF–sparingly but could fill in emergency if Span goes down.
I admit I am biased but I think the Twins were far from a sure thing from taking the Central. This is a good signing for the Twins and as a White Sox fan I hate it.
What it will come down to is pitching. Will the White Sox pitching make up for offense, and will the Twins pitching be good enough to take advantage of the offense.
We’re all biased 😉
I just can’t see the White Sox having upgraded their pitching enough to make up for their lost hitting. Dye and Thome walked this year, and I’m not sure a healthy Peavy makes up for that. The whole “DH by platoon” never seems to work well. And even in pitching matchups, I’ll take Minne’s 4-5 over Chi’s.
But then again, I’m biased as well!
If the Twins are lucky and Liriano is actually back in form, I’d take our rotation over Chicago’s. I don’t know about the bullpen, however. I just don’t know enough about the Chisox’ pen at the moment.
Wow did you guys even have a starter with an ERA under 4 last year?
No… but two were very close after poor starts and two were under until they got injured and tried playing through it before going on the DL. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Twins have three starters under 4.00 this year and four is a possibility.
Peavy showed incredible promise last year with a 1.35 ERA in 20 innings on the White Sox, and Floyd pitched incredibly after he got shelled for the first month and a half or so. Danks is always showing signs of progress. Buehrle is pretty reliable as the ace and will have a good ERA. #5 is a real question, and although Freddy Garcia pitched well at the end, he isn’t dependable really. However, there are guys like Daniel Hudson that can come up and play well for the big club.
I don’t see any stable starter on the Twins right now other than possibly Baker, which is why taking the Twins pitching staff over the White Sox’ is perplexing.
The White Sox had 3 starters last year all with an ERA under 4 for the whole year and Gavin Floyd had and ERA below 3.5 in the second half.
And you are *hoping* you guys might have 3 *maaaaaybe* 4 next year under a 4 ERA? How in the world can you say that you will take your staff over ours?
Not to mention that if Garcia goes down we have Hudson who is fresh off winning the Minor League Pitcher of the Year Award.
What are the odds you get performances like that again? How many games did you win last year with a better lineup, so sure toss your starters out there for three runs and have you pen blow the 4 to 3 games all year. I team comes to mind with a great rotation good closer bad pen and terrible lineup…. the royals. Congrats on mediocrity
If we were talking about Thome or Dye of 2008 I would agree, but we are not. Andruw Jones hit 15 HR in half a season last year. Dye hit 28 in a full season. Mix a Kotsay in there who hits .290 against RHP and you are pretty much at a wash for Dye.
And I will take 20 HR and 20SB by Rios over 30 HR by Thome.
Again, it is all gonna come down to pitching, especially in September. When our bullpen is way more rested than Minny’s because are starters will all be inning eaters and there’s will struggle to have one below an ERA of 4.
I agree with you on the replacement of offensive production. I can’t agree with your pitching argument based on ERA, though
Why not use FIP? Wouldn’t that be a better indicator of starting pitching?
(2010 CHONE projections)
Peavy – 3.83
Buerhle – 4.31
Danks – 4.33
Floyd – 4.37
Garcia – 4.72
Baker – 3.97
Slowey – 4.16
Blackburn – 4.43
Pavano – 4.23
Liriano? – 4.36
I know it’s only projections and it’s an inexact science, but I think the starting pitching is a lot closer than you might think it is.
I don’t get the Jones hype on the South Side. You do realize he signed for
$500k (admittedly a great move by Williams) for a reason, right? Because
he’s not A.Jones v2005. He’s a guy who is struggling to stay on an MLB
roster for the past couple years.
He was a great no-cost high-upside signing. It was a good gamble. But he’s
also a longshot. I see Southsiders talking about him like he’s a sure-thing
and projecting a full season out of him… confusing…
Great signing, that puts Punto on 3rd, but with the bats of Hardy and Hudson they can afford to have a great field no-hit at third. With the pitching staff Williams has put together, it should be a great battle between the Twins and Whiteys. Tigers, Indian and Royals are rebuilding and have no chance….
Now package something like Young/Ramos/Casilla/Slowey for an ace.
no
Why do teams want Young?
Wow, yea no…
Nonsense.
Slowey will be an ace this year. The guy was neck-and-neck with Grienke/Doc at 10 wins until he went down with injury. He’s back at 100%.
You also just packaged together a grand total of about $1m, and only Slowey has any value. Now show me an ace who costs $1m, otherwise you’re trading you’re payroll ability to extend Mauer.
Slowey was never actually any good, he just got a ton of run support. A 4.86 ERA does not classify your man as an ace, sorry.
He’s also 25. I’ll take the insights of the Twins scouting and development crew over your simplistic ERA analysis any day. This is a pitching S&D system that found and produced, among others, Santana, Milton, Mays, Radke, Silva, Lohse, and Garza all in recent memory – all became top-end rotation pitchers during their time in MN (though several deteriorated shortly after).
If you don’t like simplistic stats like that, then we can turn to xFIP. Slowey’s was 4.23, which was actually a decline from 2008. In comparison, Gavin Floyd had a 3.69, and he only won 11 games in a full season. I wouldn’t insult my simplistic analysis when you analysis is of wins (lol). Just because he’s a Twin doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be a good pitcher, even though the team did produce many good ones in the past. If the opinion was from a rival scout, I’d take it more into perspective.
I’m fairly certain that wins are the most important stat in baseball. It doesn’t matter how many runs/hits/walks you give up if the team wins. Could be wrong I suppose.
But that’s not the point. Let me try to explain it more clearly. If you take a random pitcher off the scrap heap, he should provide an ERA close to that of Slowey’s last season. What I’m getting at is that if you placed a random pitcher in place of Slowey last season, he probably would have won just as many games, because of the team’s run support. Slowey doesn’t deserve very much credit for his wins.
His ERA is only that high because he kept pitching after he got injured. Assuming he’s healthy, it’ll be a lot lower this year.
That’s certainly an arguable point, but his stats were still not in line with the best pitchers in April and May. In June and July (1 start) he struggled, and I assume you’re saying he was playing hurt for most of that time.
I should mention that I’m not someone who expects Slowey to be an ace in 2010. I do think that he’ll be an above average pitcher and keep his ERA under 4.00 if he’s healthy, however. In fact, I don’t expect Slowey to ever be an ace – but I do think he’ll be a 2 or a 3 instead of a 4 or a 5. He’s got good enough stuff and has almost Maddux-like control.
The only chance the Twins have at a prototypical ace would be Liriano. After that, our best pitcher will probably be Scott Baker who I can see repeating his 2008 performance when he went 11-4 with a 3.45 ERA.
I like pitchers who get a lot of run support. Santana was arguably the best Twins starting pitcher to put a uniform, but our team didn’t give him much to work with in the score column. I’d rather be 10-3 as a starter and have a 4.85 ERA than be 3-10 as a starter but have a 2.85 ERA
But the point is that the pitcher isn’t pitching well, he’s just getting lucky that his team scores behind him. It’s not like his pitching influences the team to hit well or something; it’s just luck.
Slowey will be an ace? Wow. No.
You don’t think Ramos has value?
It would be great to have an ace, which IMO is needed if we wanna make it past the first round in the playoffs. I would be all for trading for an ace, just don’t know who or what we have that would interest many teams that we would be willing to part with.
The Twins organization believes Slowey will be a legit front-end starter, yes.
Ramos has no value in terms of trading for an ace. Whenever an ace is traded, you always hear “MLB-ready talent”. Ramos doesn’t not measure up to that criteria.
Even if you could find a team willing to part with an ace (good luck there), and you could find one who would take some package from us (good luck finding one we’re willing to part with), you have the problem of payroll: we cannot afford to extend Mauer while taking on an ace’s salary.
Hence, talking about trading for an ace is just a wet dream.
Prospects are normally involved when trading for an ace.
Believe me I know there is a slim chance of making a trade for a legit ace, but I just can’t see this team making it very far without one. I sure hope they can. Baker and Slowey as your #2 and #3 would be great. Liriano is the only player IMO that could fill that ace roll and thats a big question mark. Lets hope he can though! As much as I love Nathan, it’s crazy to be paying him that much when we don’t even have a legit ace.
You’re really going to use wins as a reason to call Slowey an ace? I agree he shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances, but come on. It’s not 1960… Wins are a useless stat and everyone knows it.
Slowey’s value lies in his incredible control and his K:BB ratio that’s superior at this point in his career to the mark where even Greg Maddux was at during the same juncture of his career.
He needs to limit his fly balls either by inducing more ground balls or finding a definitive out pitch to up his K rate. He’s not there yet, but Slowey has the potential to be a front-end starter if he can manage to do one or both of those things. He may not ever be a dominant ace, but he can be a great MLB pitcher with that control and a plus K-rate.
Note to self: Don’t use any statistic on MLBTR, because others will find supplemental stats to either reinforce or disagree with you.
I’m well aware of Slowey’s superior control, seeing as I’ve literally watched every career MLB inning he’s ever thrown (I’ve only missed 7 Twins games since 2001). I’m also well aware the Twins coaching and scouting believe he’ll match Radke’s career.
I just threw out wins because it went overlooked last year by baseball at large, it’s the simplest measure, and I didn’t care to take three paragraphs to make my point.
It’s not a simple way to measure though. The best you can do with Wins is generalize. “He won 22 games, he’s probably good.” or “He lost 19 games, he’s probably bad.”
Slowey’s 10 wins were in spite of himself. He wasn’t pitching very well at all in 2009. It’s just tough to label a guy an ace when he’s sporting an ERA just a tick under 5.00. Is Slowey better than that? Of course he is, but Wins don’t tell almost any of a pitcher’s story. They’re an antiquated stat that should basically be ignored in my opinion. A pitcher’s record doesn’t correlate too much with his ability. If your team scores runs, you win games… even if you suck.
Half of Slowey’s starts last year he went over 6 innings with 2 or less
earned runs. His ERA (another overrated tool – but we can agree no single
stat is definitive) was inflated from two bad opening outings and two
outings before going on the DL with (essentially) a broken wrist.
I’m not playing the “take out this game and that game and we can make his
stats look good!” garbage – but the guy showed he can go long spells of time
with superior outings. Anybody who plays through an injury that’s
ultimately season-ending gets distorted stats (consider your boy Justin,
playing about 4 weeks with a broken back pulling him numbers down last
year).
Yes, Wins can be by the offense instead of the pitcher. But 8 of his 10
wins were quality starts – 6IP+ and 3ER or less.
Slowey is a #2 starter at best.
You REALLY need to chill with your apparent massive homerism as your really starting to make a fool of yourself on this website. Using wins to measure a pitchers success and comparing a middle of the rotation starter to Zack freakin Grienke? Wow.
I understand that the Twins have been making solid moves and its a reason to get excited, however throwing around the ace label to any pitcher you see fit without any merit is ridiculous. At this point assuming the O-Dog signs with the Twins I see them as being a forerunner in this race however their rotation has a long way to go before anyone can be considered an ace.
This is just a fun website, It might be hard to understand but fans get excited, and Morneau vp has a right to his opinion. You are the one who is making a fool of yourself.
And as far as Grienke being an ace you can use any stat you want but when you have a life time earned run average of almost 4 runs a game you are far from an ace. He had a big 2009 season but if you want to call him an ace let him put an earned run avg. of 2.50. And if you walk into a General Managers office with a 3.74 ERA an you want ace money and present as you say stats that are not obsolete you will be laughed out of his office. So like you said WOW!
First off I replied to Twinsvet, secondly Zack Grienke has posted an era of 3.69, 3.47, 2.16 over the last three years. If you want to include the one bad season he had at the age of 21 that brings his career era down to a still excellent 3.74 go ahead, but he’s put 3 solid seasons together with the last being one of the individual seasons of the past decade. He’s an ace despite your idiotic 2.50 era requirement which exactly none of Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Jake Peavy, CC Sabathia, etc even come close to meeting.
Did you just seriously say Greinke isn’t an ace because of his career ERA? I seriously hope not, because that would make you look like a complete idiot. Greinke was the best pitcher in 2009, and was a very good pitcher in 2008. He’s always been a very good prospect, and I think he was rushed to the majors at a very young age, which is why he looked so bad for his first couple or few years.
Greinke is more of an ace than all but maybe 3 pitchers in baseball.
Get a life.
You E-mail people that they make fools of themselves and are complete idiots. Grow up little boy it is a baseball website where opinions other then your own are expressed. Show some respect for people who have an opinion other then your own or you will have some harsh life lessons. And baseball by the way baseball is entertainment nothing more then going to a movie. So again I tell you get a life little boy.
I do agree that Ramos is great trade bait at some point, especially when we get the Mauer extension done. Him or Morales. No sense hoarding three great offensive catchers when we could be reaping benefits (most likely other high-level prospects at different positions) from dealing them.
How about this for an offensively minded (yet unlikely) lineup:
CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
3B Cuddyer
DH Thome
RF Kubel
LF Young
SS Hardy
No chance Cuddyer plays 3b…but that lineup is scary. Gardy take notes. haha
Agreed, no chance, haha, but man that’d be something.
If Hudson indeed signs with Minnesota it will be a GREAT move by the Twins. They had holes at 2B and 3B and now with Hudson playing second, Harris and/or Punto can play 3B. I can live with either one there if Hudson is signed. I sure hope this is more than just a mirage, make it happen Mr. Smith!
Tolbert can go down to AAA for depth to keep Casilla, who can back up 2B and SS (his natural position). Sucks that Punto is eating up $4 million, so the Twins will probably play him somewhere. Though Harris’ glove isn’t as good as Punto’s, his potential offense is WAAAAY better.
Free Brendan Harris–let him get some consistent AB’s!
CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
SS Hardy
LF Young
3B Harris–better protection for Delmon than Punto would be.
Unfortunately, you know all too well that Harris will spend chunks of the season in Gardy’s doghouse and Punto will get the ABs.
“Slowey was never actually any good, he just got a ton of run support. A 4.86 ERA does not classify your man as an ace, sorry.”
I see where you’re coming from but Slowey was actually much better than that last year. His first two or three starts were horrible and had his ERA in the upper 5’s but he then went on a stretch of roughtly 10 starts where he was absolutely phenomenal, actually getting his ERA back into the upper 3’s. Shortly after that, though, his wrist started giving him major problems and he tried to pitch through it which resulted in 3 horrible starts and his ERA jumping back up to 4.86. So while on the surface that ERA looks pretty rough it should be noted that it only jumped up that high because he was trying to pitch with practically a broken wrist.
Oh, please let this be true! Punto could still play 3 out of every 5 days (I’d prefer 1 out of 5, but I’m not Gardy) by filling in for 3H (Hudson, Hardy, or Harris). I think this lineup would be better than ’87 or ’91:
Span – CF
Hudson – 2B
Mauer – C
Morneau – 1B
Cuddyer – RF
Kubel – DH
Young – LF
Hardy – SS
Harris – 3B
Punto’s starting at 3B over Harris if the Twins sign Hudson still. Harris will fill the same utility role as always and play all over/take over when Punto’s average creeps below the Mendoza Line.
I agree Punto would likely be given the position, but I’d prefer Harris with LNP falling into a supersub role (“super” being a debatable term).
Punto’s glove and speed at the bottom of the order will likely be more valuable than Harris’ somewhat better bat. Punto’s best defensive position is 3B, he’s getting paid like a starter… Twins may as well play him. Harris will still get his ABs, but the team doesn’t need any more offense in the lineup anyway by the time you’re talking about Punto vs. Harris in the 9-hole. In years past, I’d have said I’d rather have Harris’ bat, but the Twins lineup is stacked at this point; we can afford a defensive-minded player batting ninth.
Besides, with our terrible OF defense, we need a solid infield defense, and Punto’s far better than Brendan with the glove.
I wonder if with only four bench spots that Punto becomes a true SUPER utility, backing up the OF as well, ala Jerry Hairston. There’s no question Gardy would be fine with this and really, this is the only way to not release Casilla. Pridie is still just a call away should you need a long term solution in the OF.
Love what the Twins are doing this off season. Hudson would be a great addition to that lineup that has always felt a bit short. He’ll lengthen it and give good defense to boot.
very strange to me why the guy would want a couple extra bucks to play on cleveland or nationals, both terrible teams set to have awful seasons..sign with the twins, and show that you actually want to achieve something this year orlando!
Seriously – they’re not going to get in a bidding war over him, they can just call Felipe Lopez instead. Works just as well.
The Twins don’t like Lopez because of his defense. Their backup plan to Hudson is likely Punto.
Lopez might not be the best clubhouse presence either…
What suggests that?
Too bad the Twins refuse to acknowledge any form of Sabermetrics, or they’d see that Lopez was actually significantly better at 2B last season than Hudson.
O-Dog won a Gold Glove for his reputation. Not saying I hate the guy or anything; I want him or Lopez on the Twins… but the defense argument between the two is kind of ridiculous.
Question to Mark Shapiro? Why? OHud should be the last player they try and sign. Let the Valbuena kid play 2B and spend the money on a veteran pitcher who can give you some innings.
what does mark shapiro have to do with anything? signing hudson is how the twins are showing mauer that they will go out and get the players to field a roster that can compete
He’s talking about Cleavland bro.
Cleveland steamer.
Cleveland is rumored to also be after Hudson. That’s what Mark Shapiro has to do with anything.
my bad, misread that, hes right, why take games away from valbuena if youre cleveland and going nowhere this year anyways
Boner!
thesier saying that the twins are the only team talking to him now..says the indians simply “expressed interest”
and their she is folks..the dominos begin to fall
kennedy to the nats
lopez to the cards
Curtis better know what he’s talking about.
ALRIGHT! Great news! The Twins can be considered genuine World Series contenders now.
ha
We’re a better team than last year and we all know made the playoffs last year, hopefully that does make us world series contender. Only time will tell.
Hudson was an (almost) 3 WAR player in 2009, which means, if everyone plays as good as last year (Mauer is due to regress at least a little bit, Kubel too I’d imagine), that could mean 3 more wins for the Twins. But if it’s just a straight up swap of Hudson for Punto, that is only a 1.2 win increase from Punto to Hudson. This move is a nice move, but overall this twins team shouldn’t be much better, if at all better, than the 87 win team it was last season.
We need our pitching to have a big year. If Liriano gets going we will be nasty. I don’t know if we’re genuine contenders yet.
That’s a bit on the ambitious side, but he certainly stands to be an improvement over Harris, with Punto shifting to third base.
Haha, Nice! Glad to see the Twins get a legit #2 hitter and someone to fill that offensive void at 2B.
Who wouldn’t want to bat in front of Mauer/Morneau? Just ask O. Cabrera, who saw almost nothing but fastballs for strikes. At least it sure seemed that way last year.
Not bad Twins!
Too bad MLBTR got rid of all the old post. In November I made a wish list of Re-sign Mauer, trade for Hardy, Sign Hudson, get pen help aka setup man, and Sign Beltre. The fact that they did more than one thing on that list is crazy for all of us Twins fans.
Welcome to the Twins. Hudson, Hardy, and Thome!
You omitted Condrey!
some people just dont know baseball. Look at how well blackburn has pitched the last 2 years in big games. He is extremely clutch and was all of last year in september and october. Dont forget that he started last year hot as well. ALl he had was a dry spell inbetween. Our offense and bullpen are lightyears ahead of chicago. We win the division running away.
“we win the division running away”
Just like how the twins ran away with the division last year by 1 game?
I’m not a twins or chisox fan-but the sox will have a healthy jake peavy, healthy carlos quentin, healthy konerko. Tigers clearly regressed and will sit this year out and wait for ordonez’s contract to expire.. But it will be a very close race. Unless their is a unforseen injury to a core player ( mauer morneau peavy quentin miguel cabrera etc ).. It will be a VERY close race
LoL! because the Twins are so scared of 2-3 Chicago White Sox 2010 all-stars when the Twins will have 4-6, along with a better line-up, bullpen and most likely rotation. I don’t think it will be that close at all. Especially the fact that Dye and Thome are gone. Thome used to kill the Twins. The only one person now that could do damage to the Twins is Gordan Beckham. Otherwise this will probably be a 1 team race in the central.
Funny.. 4-6 allstars.. So many things wrong with that but that’s besides the point
I can tell your a twins fan so it’s natural to be bias to your team ( I do it as well ), but it’s definitly not a 1 team race.. 2 team race? Sure
“most likely rotation.”
Really so your 4.5 team era will immensely improve by adding who exactly? This will beat a White Sox rotation that ranked 1st in the league in quality starts? The same rotation has swapped Jake Peavy for Jose Contreras and is going into the season with a full rotation and a pretty good pitcher in Daniel Hudson waiting in the wings, doubtful.
And as much as I love Jermaine Dye and all he has done for the Sox over the years he was absolutely done after the All Star Break last year, and him hitting .179 while being our 3-hole hitter was a big part of why our offense couldn’t support the pitching staff and why we faded down the stretch. A healthy Carlos Quentin in place of Dye in right is a big improvement on both sides of the game.
Look at the number of home runs and RBI’s that Dye and Thome have put up over the past 3 years.
Replacing that production is going to tough, keeping in mind Quentin has never stayed in one piece for a full season.
We aren’t talking about 3 years. We are talking about last year.
better rotation? the white sox rotation last year had the 2nd best ERA, WHIP, BAA, OPS… most innings pitched (tied w/ Tampa Bay), gave up the 2nd least amount of earned runs, and that was WITH Contreras, Colon, and *insert random 5th starter here*
FYI Twins were at the bottom for most categories, so I’m not sure what makes you think they are suddenly going to have the best rotation in the AL… I understand being biased for your team but c’mon.
Offensively, the Twins are definitely better than the White Sox right now. And I do think they are going to win the division, but it’s not going to be a 1 team race like you think it will.
if this is true, then the lineup is finally complete. one can argue that the punto/harris tandem remains a sizable flaw in the 9-hole, but its not necessarily bad to have a position that could still potentially be taken over by a top minor-leaguer (i.e. valencia). delmon still has his work cut out for him, but if properly platooned with thome, the thome/young combo equates to a very solid slugger. on paper, this is as good of a lineup as we’ve ever seen from the twins…
Joe C reporting that it’s official. 1 year at 5 million.
twitter.com/JoeCStrib
Bill Smith has really made strides as a GM. Waiting out the market on Thome and Hudson, acquiring Hardy, and the eventual Mauer extension mark this offseason as one the Twins best in recent memory…
That he has. I was down on Smith after giving up Garza and Bartlett for Young and Harris after Young turned out to be a bust while Garza pitched up a storm. And I was less than impressed by the Santana haul.
…but pretty much every move he’s made since then has been pretty solid, like bringing in Rauch, Cabrera and Pavano last season and bringing in Hardy, Thome and Hudson this season.
I wouldn’t say every move. Smith’s good moves began at the deadline this year and have kept rolling in though, agreed.
Let’s not forget that after the Santana trade though, he signed Mike Lamb, traded for Craig Monroe, signed Livan Hernandez, Luis Ayala… he’s made some downright terrible signings and read the market terribly from time to time, but he’s gotten rolling as of late.
Hopefully Mauer’s extension is next. And soon.
I viewed Monroe, Hernandez, and Ayala are relatively low-risk guys. Like Ponson, Ortiz, Batista, et al before them, the Twins have always seemed to invest in some cheap has-beens in hopes they can prove themselves useful. It’s worked out on occassion (Reyes), but even when it doesn’t, it’s not like they missed out on a Ben Sheets because they picked up a Luis Ayala. I’m willing to give them some slack on this front – it can be effective on the whole.
Of course, that assumes a timely jettison when the reclamation projects prove bust – which I know we agree they’ve failed at.
The Chicago Cub organization would like to sign Bill Smith, or at least give Jim Hendry a few lessons.
I seem to remember a story somewhere where part of a trade deal was the marketing guy for one team going over to the other to help them out… It’s fuzzy in my mind, I’ll see if I can remember…
I’d add he did well last year waiting out Crede as well. He’s definitely becoming keen at laying in the weeds until late in the off-season and snatching up some effective parts for low bucks.
It definitely takes talent – you walk a fine line between waiting until a guy’s price drops, and missing out on him entirely.
That’s a very nice looking lineup:
CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
SS Hardy
LF Young
3B Punto
Top 5 Lineup definately. Yankees are probably a little better, but I’d say the Twins have a lineup comparable to the Phils. Second or third best in the league.
Yankees are probably a little better? How about ALOT better.Take a look at the Yankees line up compared to the Twins.Yankees win easy .Twins have a better catcher no doubt and Tex beats Morneau .Cano beats Hudson .and so on…But I do like the Twins and are pretty much guarenteed a play off spot.
Not A Lot better. Yes better, but not by much.
Yes, a whole hell of a lot better. The Yankees lineup last season was absolutely insane. It kicked the cr*p out of every other lineup in baseball.
Yankees lineup is better. No question.
However, the margin is probably smaller than it’s ever been. In years past, the NYY lineup has always been VASTLY superior to the Twins – now it’s merely superior.
Great lineup. Top 5? I don’t know.
Compare them to White Sox:
Span – .311 / 23SB / 8HR vs. Pierre – .308 / 30SB / 0HR
Hudson – .283 / 8SB / 9HR / 62 RBI vs. Ramirez – .277 / 14SB / 15HR / 68RBI
Mauer – .365 / 28HR / 96 RBI vs. Quentin .236 / 21 HR / 56 RBI (hurt last year, projects out at 30HR 90 RBI for the season)
Morneau – .274 / 30HR / 100 RBI vs. Konerko – .277 / 28HR / 88 RBI
Cuddyer – .276 / 32HR / 94 RBI vs. AJ Pierzynski – .300 / 14 HR / 49 HR
Kubel – .300 / 28HR / 103 RBI vs. Jones – .220 / 34 HR / 86 RBI (projected full season based on last year. If you mix in Kotsay against RHP who had a .290 BA last year against them you wide up more like .250 / 29 HR / 80 RBI)
Hardy – .229 / 11HR / 47 RBI vs. Teahen – .271 / 12 HR / 50 RBI
Young – .284 / 12HR / 60 RBI vs. Beckham – .270 / 14 HR / 63 RBI (called up in late May)
Punto – .228 / 1HR / 38RBI / 16SB vs. Rios – .247 / 17HR / 71 RBI / 24 SB
What does all this add up to?
Twins BA = .272 White Sox BA = .271
Twins HR = 162 White Sox HR = 159
Above stats don’t factor in bench, and also assume everyone will have same numbers listed above and that everyone stays healthy whole year on both teams. Basically assuming Beckham doesn’t get better after break out rookie year and Mauer doesn’t slip from his astonishing .365 BA.
Don’t forget Morneau was out for Sept. Also remember Mauer missed all of April. Also remember Hardy struggled and the brew crew sent him down(which scares me a lot but it goes along with your injuries/callups/send downs). White sox also had one of the most potent line ups last season. the bullpen was horrible, they couldn’t beat the twins late in the season. So with those add-ons and the fact that we have your boy thome on our bench makes me think that us and the white sox are definitely both in the top 10 offensively speaking. Oh and I almost forgot, RUNS BATTED IN! 4 guys with over 94RBI, and Mauer and Morneau both missed a bunch of time.
You project out Andruw and Quentin but not Morneau, Young or Mauer who all also missed significant time? Doesn’t seem very fair to me.
Also, just BA and HR? Seems worthlessly simplistic to me.
Exactly. I can cherry-pick basic stats too. If you’re going to project Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay to combine for 29 HRs, you’re out of your mind.
Espinosa’s post was so blatantly biased that I find it almost too ridiculous to comment on. Even diehard White Sox fans will concede that Minnesota has a far better lineup, while the South Siders have a far better rotation.
Should make for a good race. Here’s hoping Peavy doesn’t adjust to the AL as well as they’re hoping.
I am not saying you guys don’t have a better lineup. I am just saying that it is closer than everyone is making it out to be.
Jones hit 15 HR in 81 games last year btw. Kotsay hit .290 against RHP last year. So I don’t see how that is ridiculous.
I would imagine Jones/Kotsay have just as good of chance to hit 29HR as Mauer has of hitting .365 again.
Steve,
I am not sure what your post proves. I am going down your list and the Twins have a superior or equal hitter in every slot except the 9 hole. All you are doing is providing evidence that the Twins have a better linup.
I will give the Sox the edge in the rotation, but lineup and bullpen are clearly in the Twins favor.
I am not saying that you guys don’t have a better line up. You do. I am saying the difference isn’t that big.
As far as bullpen goes you guys went 24-27 and ours went 23-18. And that was with Bobby Jenks hurt, no JJ Putz, and without the addition of Hudson. So I have no idea why you think your Pen is better than ours.
I think saying giving us the “edge” is an understatement. Let me use your words for hit…. The White Sox have a superior starter in every rotation spot.
Wins? When measuring a bullpen, you chose to pick wins? Come on man.
The Twins were 10th in the MLB last year in ERA, the Whities were 18th. Our pen had a better WHIP, BAA and OPS against as well. Quite simply- the White Sox were average last season, the Twins were above average.
The Twins lost a couple arms early and the bullpen struggled in April and May. This year we have a full year of Jon Rauch, Pat Neshek, and Clay Condry instead of Bob Keppel, Juan Marillo and Phil Humber… all upgrades. We had a better pen last season, and we have a superior one this one.
You’re Twins animosity is astounding.
You’re comparing AL MVP’s Morneau and Mauer to Quintin and Konerko (and failing to project Morneau and Mauer over full, healthy seasons at that).
You’re comparing Kubel’s .300 to Jones’ .220.
From 1-6, the Twins are indisputably better. From 7-9, the the Sox may have the edge, but that’s like saying the Twins 4-5 pitchers are superior.
This “statistical analysis” has more holes in it that I care to even begin to point out.
Superior in every slot? So you expect Span, to be a 300 plus hitter again? You expect Hudson to hit better than Beckham, who didn’t even play a full year? And just for the record, there’s a reason why Thome was traded for a bucket of balls, but you’ll see soon enough.
Yes Span will be a 300 plus hitter and have and OBP near 400. One of the most underrated leadoff hitters in baseball.
Your stats also don’t factor in very many meaningful stats, like OBP or SLG% would. A. Jones is trash, and will not do even that good again. Pierre can only hit for average and steal bases, and gives nothing else on offense. Don’t misinterpret me, hitting for average is meaningless unless it comes with the ability to get on base a ton or have good power.
The Twins have a better lineup than the White Sox, but I don’t believe it’s by a whole hell of a lot.
Correct. I totally agree they have a better lineup. My point was that it’s not nearly as big as the pitching advantage the White Sox have.
No way of knowing that? wheres the info on that. There’s really no way of knowing.
Thats ok though…its not the amounts…its how he handled it. You just don’t do that to teams. Its called class….. you just go back to the team and say the twins offered 5 mil, can you top it if not, I’m going there…..you don’t say I’m not playing somewhere…I won’t play in Washington….hey Hudson who are you?…you may not play in Minnesota, injury and a young kid comes up(trade), anything can happen….not handled well by hudson…my opinion though….remember we don’t get the offer sheets, you and I…who knows…nats may have offered 6 mil? Belliard beat him out last year and he didn’t play second for the Nats…don’t go crazy over this signing…Someone above had the stats and Kennedy was as good or better than this guy. Maybe the Nats are better with Kennedy for less money? We’ll see
Ah, have you had any alcohol in the last couple hours? He didn’t want to play for the Nats because they don’t have a chance to win. He wanted to play for a contender. Did he call you and tell you he didn’t want to play for the Nats? He won’t be playing for the Nats because the deal was being made with the Twins already. And you must not realize that Hudson has made a decent name for him already, recieving 4 gold gloves at 2nd base. Don’t be salty. The Nats need a lot more than a 2nd baseman.
Well, you have the sequence wrong but anyway. Nats have been waiting on Hudson and what I’m saying is this….Why say you don’t want to play for a team? Why? I really don’t think the money is an issue, in fact, the Nats may have been willing to offer more.
Why would he or his agent let that leak out. Thats “all” I’m saying. I agree the Nats need more pitching and have made some in-roads in that regard and I like Kennedy anyway. Big question mark, the more I look at it with Hudson. Fatigue? Didn’t get along with Torre? Dodgers need a second baseman and Dodgers don’t even want him? hmmmm…that second half last year, you have to agree raises some questions. I can argue that Kennedy may be a tad better. World champion, Mvp playoffs, etc
I may need a shot and a beer though…lol
The Nats said they wouldn’t exceed $3MM for Hudson, if that helps. It was on the story on MLB.com.
WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! THIS IS HUGE!! The Twins added 3 ALL-STARS to their team this offseason!! I want MLB to start TOMORROW so I can see a lineup of 1) SPAN 2) O-DAWG 3) MAUER 4) MORNEAU 5) KUBEL 6) CUDDYER 7) YOUNG 8) HARDY 9) PUNTO
Or God Forbid a lineup like this: 1) SPAN 2) HUDSON 3) MAUER 4) MORNEAU 5) THOME 6) KUBEL 7) CUDDYER 8) YOUNG 9) HARDY
I just got chills!! I JUST GOT CHILLS!!!!!
Actually they added 4 former all-stars to their team. Carl Pavano, JJ Hardy, Jim Thome and Orlando Hudson!! Welcome to the Twins!! Extend Mauer and this is a flat out DREAM OFFSEASON!!
Not to be the rain on your parade but….
Carl Pavano – 5.10 ERA last year. Let me repeat *5.10* ERA.
JJ Hardy – Hit .229 last year
Jim Thome – Hit .239 and had an OBP of .308 in the second half.
Orlando Hudson – Did great last season until he lost his starting spot. Still a solid signing though I will admit.
Pavano isn’t that great, but for some strange reason went like 6-1 against the White Sox and Tigers in 2009. Ended up being a really nice pickup for the Twins
At one point Jose Contreras looked good last year too.
5.10 ERA with a 4.00 FIP. Decent K and groundball rates. His peripherals indicate he was a lot better than his actual numbers wound up.
Is it a great signing? No. But it could end up being just fine as well. I don’t hate the move. If he can stay healthy, he should justify his salary or at least close to it.
Offering him arbitration was a risk worth taking anyway. A lot of people thought Pavano could end up on a two-year deal somewhere; his agent made the right call, good for him.
Lol, I just used that phrase without reading your post.
I wouldn’t be so down on Hardy, he was a 5 WAR player and mid 4 WAR player the two years previous to last season.
Pavano was an All-star 6 years ago and Thome is on the downside of his career (very end), but could provide maybe 20 homeruns if he DHs 120 games. Sorry if I’m raining on your parade, just don’t expect miracles from these guys.
Respectful move by the Twins in agreeing not to offer him arb if he finishes as a Type A.
See, I’m not sure about that. I understand the concept, but this is two years now where if one of our guys has a good year then signs elsewhere, we get nothing? First O Cabrera now O Hudson? I dunno, maybe it saved us a million bucks, but is it worth it?
I agree. Plus the fact that a lot of first round draft picks are helping out quicker and quicker (i.e. Gordon Beckham, Evan Longoria, etc.).
But then again that might of made the difference between a million or so gap in negotiations.
True, but Longoria and Beckham were Top 10 picks and the Twins wouldn’t end up with a Top 15 pick from Type A compensation. Best case scenario, we get a pick in the 16-20 range and a supplemental round. Agreed it’s still a loss, but if that was the sticking point between him signing here or signing in Cleveland, then you’ve gotta say it was worth it.
Yeah like the Dodgers are going to get from the Twins for them signing Hudson…wait…nevermind.
Stupid McCourt.
I guess 2 guys contitutes a lot!
We didn’t sign Cabrera and agree to those terms though; that one’s on Billy Beane.
That completes a sweeet offseason for the Twinks! Oh and Mauer. But seriously thank you Pohlads
Mauer, Morneau, O-Dog, Hardy, Cuddyer and Span going to be one hell of an offense.
That Kubel guy who racked up a .300/.369/.539/.907 line last season and hit 28 HRs isn’t too shabby either… 🙂
The Central is yours Minnesota. IF he produces or doesn’t get hurt.
Central goes to MN with or without Hudson. This just puts Chi/Det 7 games back instead of 5.
“Well, I’m glad this 5 million was spent on Hudson, and not Washburn.”
Great move by the Twins. And a very good offseason.
Here is why this all matters: the AL central is loaded with RH ace pitchers (Grenke, Peavy, Verlander).
By signing Thome and a switch hitting Hudson, the Twins can now send out this lineup agains those guys.
Span
Hudson
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Thome
Hardy
Punto
That is 7 guys standing on the left hand side of the plate against those guys (All but Cuddy and Hardy). That at least improves our chances against AL Central aces. The more wins we have against those top line guys, the more I like our chances to win the division. I like what Bill Smith has done with this team.
I’ve read a lot on here about how Hudson is a great fit for the twins and I just wanna give my take.
Not only does Hudson give the twins a great presence at the plate but the double play combination of JJ Hardy and Orlando Hudson is gonna be a force defensively. Great teams always have sparkling defense up the middle and right now with JJ Hardy, Orlando Hudson, and Denard Span the Twins can say that up the middle they are as good as any team in baseball.
Orlando Hudson was built for the twins. He’s a switch-hitting huscle guy, with gold glove defense, hits the other way, and can lay down a sacrifice bunt with ease when called upon. All these things make the signing of Hudson just a perfect fit for this ballclub.
Gardenhire will quickly have a new favorite player as he’s never had an infielder like Orlando Hudson on a team he’s managed.
Your description of Hudson sounds alot like Castillo in 2006-07. A declining 2B who hits from both sides (Castillo put up better numbers than Hudson does), who is a year or two removed from GG calibre defense, and plays small-ball. He lacks the speed Castillo had, but like Castillo, he’s probably only got another 2-3 years of quality baseball left in him. Which is why I love the 1-yr nature of this signing.
Twins faithful, however, know that nobody will ever, ever, ever command as much manlove from Gardy as Punto. We’re all convinced Punto has secretly married into Gardy’s family some years ago.
I think having Brendan Harris and Nick Punto as bench guys is a great thing and I like Danny Valencia and Orlando Hudson as the starters!
Valencia won’t be starting until June or July – and even that isn’t a sure thing; he’d need to continue to tear it up in AAA and probably have an injury in the IF so Gardy’s favorite munchkin could move over to make room for Danny.
Danny Valencia won’t sniff the starting lineup on a regular basis until at least mid to late 2011. Remember, we have Brendan Harris through 2011 and he’s going to get a bulk of the starts this year at third. Punto will be the utility infielder as he should have always been, giving days off to Harris, Hardy & Hudson.
“I am not saying you guys don’t have a better lineup. I am just saying that it is closer than everyone is making it out to be.”
It really isn’t close at all. The Twins have 5 hitters on their team now (Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Cuddyer, Thome) who all had a higher OPS last year than anyone who the White Sox have this year
Here’s what I hope for the Nats. Some folks responded to some of my comments, but the Twins are so popular that I couldn’t find those Nats comments among the sea of Twins thoughts. I would give up a season or two of contention (OK, maybe after the team had their first year of contention since 2005) if the DC area would bloom with a Nats Constituency that the team deserves.
Here’s rooting for Kennedy to have a much better year than Hudson. Don’t be insulted, Minnesota- you know you are hoping for the opposite. It’s sports, all- we get to both root for and against people without it being any mnore than a game.
Joe Nathan Pitches.
Joe Mauer Catches.
Terrific signing!
The Twins only succeed in the underdog role. Once the pressure is on them to win, they will collapse.
I disagree. There was tons of pressure on them to win game 163 and they did!
Since 1991, the Twins are 0-5 in playoff series with a combined record of 3-16.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the Twins are one of the best organizations in all of sports, but they juat thrive on that “underdog” thing. Once they have the new park and a 100 million dollar payroll, they won’t be able to play that card any more.
So what. Its how you run your organization that is critical. The Twins FO will continue to run things more or less the same. The only difference will be that we will have the money to re-sign many of our prospects instead of losing every good star that comes up through the system.
While it’s hardly less pathetic, the Twins did manage to beat the A’s in the 2002 ALDS before losing to the Angels in the ALCS… so they’ve got at least one series win in there. Yeeha.
Sorry about that and thanks for the correction. I got my info from Baseball Ref. and they didn’t list the series against the A’s.
baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/
Sorry about that and thanks for the correction.