SATURDAY, 8:31pm: The Mets will be in attendance when Sheets throws on Tuesday, according to Ed Price of Fanhouse.com (via Twitter).
Earlier today, Cardinals GM John Mozeliak confirmed to fans and reporters that the club will be in Monroe, Louisiana to watch Sheets as well.
FRIDAY, 4:36pm: Brewers GM Doug Melvin tells Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the Brewers will watch Sheets next week. Haudricourt suggests the Brewers are just being dilligent.
1:33pm: The Dodgers will watch Sheets pitch, according to Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times (via Twitter).
11:42am: The Angels could use Sheets, but will they watch him throw? "Not at this time," GM Tony Reagins tells Bill Shaikin of the LA Times.
8:40am: Cardinals GM John Mozeliak tells Rob Rains of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat that the Cards will "likely" watch Sheets throw.
MLB.com's Jordan Bastian adds the Blue Jays to the list of interested teams.
THURSDAY, 1:52pm: The Rangers will be in attendance on Tuesday, writes MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan. Sheets and Rich Harden would be a high-upside, high-injury risk pair of rotation additions.
11:49am: Ben Sheets will throw for teams Tuesday at the University of Louisiana at Monroe, reports ESPN's Tim Kurkjian. Said Sheets: "They're going to like what they see." Kurkjian indicates six to ten teams have expressed interest, the Cubs included. Kurkjian believes a one-year deal with incentives is in order. He says to "keep an eye on Seattle," given Jack Zduriencik's familiarity with Sheets. The Mariners were first connected to Sheets on December 11th by Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.
Kurkjian talked to Sheets about his year off from baseball, after the righty had flexor tendon surgery in February. Sheets feels "refreshed" and "fantastic," and seems raring to go. He thinks he can regain his old form, adding "Watch, I'll show 'em."
Rumored suitors aside from the Cubs and Mariners? The Rangers, Yankees, Mets, and Orioles have been linked to Sheets this offseason, but several of those clubs have added starters since. The Angels and Dodgers would make sense.
i wish the angels would sign him, but he is probably going to go to the NL
Carpenter
Wainwright
Sheets
Penny
Lohse
Imagine that, With or without sheets its a arguable best rotation in the NL.
Best rotation in the bigs
Ha, didn’t he say he wasn’t going to throw for teams? I guess he realize that just bcus his last name was Sheet he is not getting 12M.
Goodness, a Mariner rotation with Hernandez, Lee, and Sheets could be monstrous. They seem to have the pitching depth to protect Sheets and keep his innings down, so its possible he could remain effective throughout the season (hopefully no need to ride him like the Brewers had to).
Just a question, who follows after Hernadnez and Lee? I don’t think you want Sheet in the AL BTW.
I would imagine Ryan Rowland-Smith would be my first choice to be the number 3 guy, but I feel Sheets is capable (if healthy, of course) of matching up favorably against a good number of AL number 3’s. I think he would out class a good majority (and has the skills to outclass virtually all) fourth starters in the AL. So, I would think that, so long as they are able to keep him healthy (no easy thing), he would be a great addition to the Mariners.
I’m just asking bcus you said the Mariners have “the pitching depth to protect Sheets and keep his innings down” which would mean that they have some other good pitchers as their 3rd, 4th and 5th that can eat innings and it seems like they don’t. I think the Giants have the depth to keep Sheet healthy and the ball park for him to have good #s
Would probably be Felix, Lee, Sheets, Snell, Rowland-Smith.
Well, the back end (the two behind Rowland-Smith) of the Mariners rotation as it stands is a bit weak, but with the addition of Sheets, it pushes the question mark they seem to have for the 5th starter out and makes Ian Snell their #5. He has pitched over 200 innings once, although it was in ’07. His quality is certainly debatable, but then again most #5’s have that problem, that’s why they’re #5’s and not higher. A wild card there is how good the Mariners bullpen is. With two solid workhorses at the top of the rotation, the bullpen can most likely afford to eat some innings, and if they are as good as they were last year, those innings will mostly be good ones.
The Giants would also be a good match. Sheets could be the fourth or fifth starter with Sanchez taking the other spot. That would most likely make Bumgarner the spot starter/long reliever. Do you think the Giants would want Bumgarner in that role, or do you think they would prefer him to start regularly?
Rowland-Smith, Snell and a whole lot of question marks. My personal favorite if Doug Fister, but that is purely a name thing.
lol
All these players always feel great and better than ever. Haven’t seen one say they feel like crap.
The day they feel like crap with a contract on the line will be a miracle hahahaha… All of them seem like they can climb everest when they auditioning…
It’s when he gives up 4 bombs and 10 runs in an inning and a third that the excuses start pouring out more than the Bush administration…
With those kind of statements it sounds like he’s still angling for a big contract
The Mariners?
King Felix — Lee — Sheets?
if Sheet still has the stuff….that’s a absolute nasty front end of the rotation.
His stuff as never been put to question, his health on the other hand is miserable. and it doesn’t matter how good you are if you are not pitching.
I don’t see how any AL team makes sense for Sheets given the precedent Smoltz and Penny set for career NL pitchers debuting in the AL after coming off major injuries.
Sheet is a totally different animal than Smoltz or Penny. When healthy his stuff is in the elite catagory and would play in either league. Penny doesn’t have near as good of stuff and Smoltz is much older.
True, but I still don’t think that it’s just a coincidence that Smoltz and Penny both did terrible in the AL, and then immediately starting pitching good as soon as they returned to the NL. And put yourself in Sheets’ shoes. You want to prove you can stay healthy and put up the best stats possible so you can land a lucrative long term deal next year. Which league would you rather go to?
Sheets has always (with the exception of the partial season when Sabathia was in MIL) been relied upon to be the ace of the Brewers. This often caused them to work him harder (and rely upon him more) than I think he’s capable of. The added workload and responsibility of being an ace seemed to wear him down at the end of many seasons. Perhaps the chance to pitch behind Hernandez and Lee would lessen both the pressure/expectations/workload enough for Sheets to succeed.
That is why you can’t count on him to be a #2. and definitely not after being out a whole year.
Wasn’t he out once for like a month with like an ear infection or something like that?
Usually when he starts to feel pain he takes the liberty of taking himself out of the game rather than pitching through the pain. Some call it smart, others will say it shows a lack of toughness.
He would be the #3 or #4 in Seattle, something probably better suited for him, expecially in the AL. Yes, the missed year leaves a huge question mark, but I’ve watched him pitch for years (I live near Chicago) and I have to say a lot of his numbers don’t say how flat out dominant he can be. I’ve always thought it had to do with the responsibilty and workload the Brewers have put on him (they never had anyone else except CC), and perhaps pitching lower in a rotation would help alleviate those problems.
About the ear infection, I can’t recall exactly, but it seemed like he took himself out of games for a wide variety of reasons. Perhaps he’s a headcase, perhaps just not built for a 162 game season (well, either way that’s apparently true), but an ace he isn’t. He definately has the ace stuff, but much like the Rich Harden/Eric Bedard’s of the world, he just can’t anchor the top of a rotation.
I think we are better off bringing back Bedard imagine if he gets healthy by some miracle then we have three aces but i doubt we pu three lefties in the rotation rrs, lee, Bedard if healthy
#2 starter is such an irrelevant designation. the only time being the #1-3 starter matters is during the playoffs and during the first week or so of the season. it really only matters in the playoffs, though.
You guys seem to forget how good the Mariners defense is and how good of a pitcher’s park SafeCo Field is.
You guys seem to forget how good the Mariners defense is and how good of a pitcher’s park SafeCo Field is.
Ah, I see. You were looking at it from Sheet’s perspective. Yeah, if he wants to put up some nice K and ERA numbers going to the NL makes sense as does pitching with that defense in Seattle behind you.
Maybe it had something to do with both both pitching in the AL East? Not to mention that neither had pitched in that league before, and it was all new teams, new hitters, and stadiums. Although the NL is probably weaker, Smoltz and Penny were horrendous in the AL, but when they went back to their old league they dominated.
All this hype will raise his price beyond what the Cubs can afford.
All this hype will drive his price beyond what the Cubs can afford.
Echo!…echo….echo…
I’m sure he will get more than the Cubs could offer anyway.
Someone is going to get a bargain on this guy. With that many suitors no one will be bidding against themselves. I bet this guy gets no more than 7MM guaranteed per year with incentives to earn 12MM per year. If the Cubs get him he better be healthy. I would be pretty nervous about an entire season hanging on the health of 6 major producers in Zabrano, Lilly, Sheets, Ramirez, Soriano, and Soto.
It still blows my mind that the Cubs passed on Harden and are now going after Sheets. It just doesn’t make any sense to me why they would go after a health risk like this when it seemed they were trying to go after more reliable players since letting Harden go.
this is the only guy left on FA market for mets that makes sense. would be a perfect num 2 behind johan..
I think he still is a big question mark to be counted as you #2. You don’t want to do that with Sheets
is there any reason why the mets cant sign piniero (2 yr backloaded) and sheets ( 1 yr with option ) deals ?
I think this is the worse guy the Mets could possibly go after out of quality FA’s left. Did you guys not learn last year when having basically half your team on the DL. The Mets already have so many injury prone players it’s ridiculous and now signing Bay and most likely Molina you are adding two more and now you want a 3rd in Sheets when your star player is already out in Beltran. My gosh Omar should be fired on the spot if he even attends the workout even thinking of signing Sheets. The entire roster is ?’s.
Mets need a work horse that will pitch 200 innings and stay healthy. Pineiro and Garland would be the Mets best options and I’m actually really suprised they aren’t in on Padilla he seems like a perfect fit for the Mets.
The Phillies have raised the bar and the only way Mets are gonna win the division is by taking risks. Garland would be nice to sure up the rotation but they’re gonna have to take a risk on Sheets or Wang in order to have a true number 2 to compete with the Phils. 1 risky guy and one Garland would be nice.
Haven’t the Mets taken enough risks in the past to have learned a lesson that taking risks every single year and going after it all each year when they need to rebuild is why they’re in the situation they are now? If the Mets and it’s fans had a drop of patience they could be an incredible organization but the I want it and I want it now approach hasn’t worked and it’s not going to start now. I understand Met’s frustration but at some point you have to think of the future or atleast next season not just this one. The Mets are ran like the Federal Government
The Cubs need to take this risk whether it be with Sheets or Bedard. I prefer Sheets, but the fact is the Cubs core is down to its final shot this season.
Sheets has always had great stuff, but has no balls whatsoever. He seems to have a knack for physically falling apart at just the wrong time (see September 2007 and September 2008.) I would be shocked if he signed with an American League team.
Don’t forget the time he took himself out of the game in the first inning against the Cubs a couple years back because he thought he might have a blister. Anti-Clutch!
Where does he fits in the Yankees?
If the M’s pick up Sheets and he’s still got the velocity and movement it will be hard to argue that the M’s don’t have the best rotation in baseball (Boston close though). Hernandez, Lee, Sheets, Rowland-Smith and Snell… woweee.
To the person who asked if the M’s can eat innings after Hernandez and Lee, Rowland-Smith is expected to have the stuff to be an innings eater. He has the make-up of Washburn with a potentially higher upside.
Maybe we are talking about a different pitcher.
Ben Sheets – the guy in this rumor – missed all of 2009. Prior to that he averaged 23 starts per season (topping out with 31 in 2008 – which precipitated his injury). From 2005 to 2009 he has had 2 seasons with an ERA in the low 3’s. The other seasons he posted an ERA in the high 3’s. That’s playing in the NL Central and before a major surgery. IF Ben Sheets is healthy, and IF he didn’t suffer major regression due to the surgery, and IF he can be signed for a relative bargain ($5m or so), then the guy is a huge asset. However, if any one of those IF’s swing the other way then he could be a major disappointment.
As for the other Mariner starters …
Rowland-Smith seems like a decent enough pitcher. His problem is that he has never gone beyond 125 innings in any season (including his time in the minors). The conversion from reliever to starter can be challenging and unpredictable. To simply assume he will go 180-210 innings with a high 3’s ERA is extremely optimistic. And Snell … the guy has an ERA over 5 for the past years. I count one season (2007) where he was a solid pitcher. A few others where he was decent enough as a 5th starter, and a few more years where the guy was a disaster. You can’t count on Snell to be effective or productive. One season of 200+ innings on his resume does not equal a track record of success.
Sheets makes a lot of sense for most teams. However, to count on him, to rely on him to give you a solid year would be a mistake. You plan on him giving you 120-140 innings. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Talk of slotting him in as a #2/#3 starter is foolish, IMO.
While I agree that it’s tough to predict anything regarding Rowland-Smith, I jsut don’t agree with your sheets explanation. Sheets health is an issue, but a heavy incentive-laden deal would make this almost a non-issue, especially with a one year offer. The fact is he would be a medium-risk, high-reward deal… unless the Cubs or someone else offers like $8 million guaranteed, in which the M’s better stay far, far away. Sheets would be in a great environment is Seattle, with our spacious ballpark and elite defense. May not get a ton of run support, but it will still be better than last year for sure.
“unless the Cubs or someone else offers like $8 million guaranteed, in which the M’s better stay far, far away.”
The Cubs can’t offer Sheets 8MM guaranteed. They simply do not have it in their budget. If he gets anything close to that, it will not be from the Cubs.
Last I heard the Padres had some money to spend. I wonder if Jed Hoyer would take a chance on Sheets. He could put up some nice numbers in that ballpark pitching against the NL west.
Heh well the Phils always said the Lee trade wasn’t about money, who knows, maybe they slip in and grab Sheets!
Halladay-Hamels-Sheets…with the innings-eater (and perennially underrated) Blanton behind them, and Happ throwing as a #5. That’s a pretty damn good rotation!
Never happen though.
ehhh i dont know…i heard the phils possibly connected to sheets/wang…if i had my choice id rather take wang…2 time 19game winner in the AL east is no easy task..hes only been in the league 5 seasons, he’s got plenty of time to recover from his surgery
ehhh i dont know…i heard the phils possibly connected to sheets/wang…if i had my choice id rather take wang…2 time 19game winner in the AL east is no easy task..hes only been in the league 5 seasons, he’s got plenty of time to recover from his surgery
i like sheets when healthy and i would like to see him in a Phillie uniform hes definately not getting 12 mil i mean Halladay- Hamels(the good one) -Sheets(when healthy)- Blanton- Happ= sexy rotation, plus the philz have already talked to Sheets’ agent also wang’s to but rubens surprised me before…….i wanna see it
Ben Sheets has the potential to be the best pitcher in the majors in a given season. Not sure why any posters would think he would have trouble in the American League, unless he wasn’t healthy.
I mean.. it is a VERY, VERY short list of pitchers who are better than Ben Sheets if he’s healthy. Haven’t most of his injuries before the elbow deal that ended his spectacular 2008 been like blisters and groin pulls?
Elbow problem, blisters…groin pulls…Sounds to me like he’s got a pretty serious masturbation habit. Get that under control and he could save himself for pitching again.
wow really? best in baseball?? Based on what???
Based on his previous body of work……….?
In any given year, yes. Please re-read my post. I did not say he is the best pitcher in baseball. I said he has the potential to be the best pitcher in baseball in any given season.. you know, like 2004 when he led the league with an 8.25 K/BB ratio, threw 234 innings, struck out 264 guys, and only gave up 201 hits and 32 BB for a WHIP of 0.983. A WHIP under 1.00. That is SICK. He averaged 10 K/9. His ERA+ was 162 for crying out loud!
At his best, who is better than Sheets? You’re talking Halladay, Santana, Lincecum, Sabathia, Lee, Greinke? Sheets in considered a notch below these guys because of his health, not his talent or his stuff.
I think to take issue with that fact that Ben Sheets could have a single season in which he performs better than the guys I just listed is a bit silly. His 2004 and 2008 seasons already prove he can. It doesn’t mean he’s going to do it. It doesn’t mean he’s actually more valuable to your team than the other guys. It just means that in any given year, the guy could win the Cy Young award and make it definitive.
Based on his previous body of work……….?
In any given year, yes. Please re-read my post. I did not say he is the best pitcher in baseball. I said he has the potential to be the best pitcher in baseball in any given season.. you know, like 2004 when he led the league with an 8.25 K/BB ratio, threw 234 innings, struck out 264 guys, and only gave up 201 hits and 32 BB for a WHIP of 0.983. A WHIP under 1.00. That is SICK. He averaged 10 K/9. His ERA+ was 162 for crying out loud!
At his best, who is better than Sheets? You’re talking Halladay, Santana, Lincecum, Sabathia, Lee, Greinke? Sheets in considered a notch below these guys because of his health, not his talent or his stuff.
I think to take issue with that fact that Ben Sheets could have a single season in which he performs better than the guys I just listed is a bit silly. His 2004 and 2008 seasons already prove he can. It doesn’t mean he’s going to do it. It doesn’t mean he’s actually more valuable to your team than the other guys. It just means that in any given year, the guy could win the Cy Young award and make it definitive.
I know this guy name ZACK GREINKE who is on top of that list!!!!
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The only fair contract for Sheets would be maybe a base of 1 to 2 million base plus incentives which could jump it up for him if he preforms. With his medical history he is a big risk, and if he can be productive a full season he would bre rewarded
Eh.. I’m 100% positive he will get a much better deal than a $1-2MM base. And he will deserve it.
Agreed. He will argue (correctly) that he is a better pitcher than Brad Penny, and look at the bad paper the Cards gave him. However, he will have to knock a couple mil off of that because of the injury worries.
How disgusting was that Penny contract, by the way?
For an organization that portrays itself as upper-end-mid-market (even though I’m convinced the Cardinals could easily afford to spend like BOS, LAD, and NYM), that’s a lot of change to give a guy who really isn’t any good.
you know the Dodger’s payroll right now is under 100M, right? They no longer spend like Bos, NYY, NYM, etc, but still win… damn McCourt.Oh, the Penny deal looks really dumb, IMO. I dont see him going back to his Dodger/Marlin years.. too lazy
No, I didn’t know it was under $100MM right now actually. I was kind of going off recent history and figured it was somewhat north of $100MM ($120MM? i took a stab.. prolly should have checked Cot’s). I didn’t use any hard and fast numbers, but I just was sort of implying that next tier of spending, below the Yankees.
It was around $120m for 2008. Dropped considerably in 2009 (to about $100m). Looks to drop again, or stay about the same, depending on arbitration cases and if the Dodgers sign a starter and/or 2B.
No, I didn’t know it was under $100MM right now actually. I was kind of going off recent history and figured it was somewhat north of $100MM ($120MM? i took a stab.. prolly should have checked Cot’s). I didn’t use any hard and fast numbers, but I just was sort of implying that next tier of spending, below the Yankees.
Prehaps, or he may be on the DL in may and some team is stuck with him. I am not saying he does not deserve a good payday, but coming off of an injury that kept you out for a year, plus a history of injuries? Let him win 15 games, have a3.25 era and pitch 200 innings then with those incentives he can earn his 10 million dollar contract. Signing pitchers with injury historys are a suckers bet.
Yeah, but you’ve got to examine his injury history a little better.
He missed time in 2005 at the beginning of the season because of inner ear infections. 2006 it was shoulder tendinitis. He missed some time but pitched great when he came back. In 2007 I’m pretty sure his injuries involved his groin, hamstring, and blisters.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have a injury history, but he’s really only had two arm injuries and only one of them (2008 flexor tendon injury) was structural.
He deserves a higher base than $1-2MM and if he can make 25+ starts he is going to make the GM that places that “sucker’s bet” look like a genius card counting hustler.
here are a few names you can consider, Darren Dreifort, Mike Hampton these two guys both had arm problems, they both got signed. They both ended up in the scrap heap. I am sure with the need for pitching he will get his payday and he should. My point is the first year back off of an injury an incentive based contract is the way to go. If a team gives him 10 million dollars this year and he goes down the first month they are stuck. Randy Wolf just got a nice payday but he had to prove he was healthy the last few years. To me giving big money to a guy who has an injury that keeps him out the whole season is a suckers bet. I just read a very interseting book called Moneyball you can take from it what you want but it is a brand new way to approach the players a team signs, a great read.
Moneyball isn’t a new book. And I really don’t think Darren Dreifort or Mike Hampton apply here. Besides, didn’t both of those guys get signed to massive deals BEFORE their serious injury problems started up?
You seem to be under the impression that I’m advocating giving Ben Sheets a multi-year deal. All I pointed out to you is that a base of $1-2MM is not going to cut it, and it won’t. He SHOULD have an incentive heavy contract. That incentive heavy contract SHOULD be for one year (maybe a team or vesting option).
But the guys you are comparing him to.. Dreifort, Hampton, Wolf.. these guys aren’t in Ben Sheet’s league when it comes to stuff.
The list of pitcher’s with better stuff than Ben Sheets is like.. Santana, Sabathia, Lester, Lincecum, F. Hernandez, Halladay, Lee. Guys like that, okay? Ben Sheets on a strict talent level, he’s in the group of guys like Oswalt, Cain, etc. The guy has ace talent. He has had several ace seasons (including his most recently completed one in 2008).
Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Johan Santana.. all of these guys have had injury problems. Pitching baseballs causes injury. It is an unnatural motion that the body is not really designed to due. Even Tim Lincecum, with his terrific motion and mechanics had some shoulder issues the past season.
If nobody signed ptichers that had been hurt, you would be watching Indy League players on television by June.
Both Hampton and Dreifort had a history of arm troubles. The dodgers just gave another guy last year Orlando Hudson a contract that was laced with incentives. He had a 2 million dollar base and he ended up earning close to 8 million dollars I know Hudson is a position player but Any player who sits out a year should be suspect.There is nothing wrong to expect a guy to maybe earn his money! Sheets career line is 86 wins and 83 losses 3.72 ERA and 31 years old this is the guy who has better stuff then Wolf? Wolf career stats 101 wins 85 losses 4.13 era 33 years old. Wolfs era is a little higher but his win to loss ratio more then makes up for it. Money ball is an older book, the great thing about it though is that it it challenges you to look at baseball and baseball players differently. What is someone really worth? Who is undervalued and who is overvalued? Of course it is not an exact science but it does give teams Another way of looking at what a guy is really worth.
Wins and losses? They don’t tell us anything. AT ALL.
Ben Sheets has a career FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) of 3.56
Randy Wolf has a career FIP of 4.28
In 11 seasons, Randy Wolf has 1682.1 IP while giving up 772 earned runs with a 1.32 WHIP. His BABIP was .294, right around the major league average (.290).
In 8 seasons, Ben Sheets has 1428 IP while giving up 591 earned runs with a 1.2 WHIP. His BABIP was .306, slightly higher than average (indicating a modest amount of bad luck).
Wolf – 2.29 K/BB, 1.13 HR/9
Sheets – 3.85 K/BB, 0.96 HR/9
So we now know, after just a tiny browsing of relevant information, that even though he has 3 seasons more experience than Sheets, Randy Wolf has only pitched 254 more innings in his career. He has 4 200 IP seasons, as opposed to Sheet’s 3 (Ben Sheets pitched 198 innings in 2008, just two innings short of a 4th 200 IP season).
In those 254 more innings, Wolf has managed to walk 292 (!) more batters than Ben Sheets while only striking out 181 more batters. He has given up 212 HR to Ben Sheet’s 160. Randy Wolf has also hit 42 more batters in his career than Ben Sheets, 73 to Sheet’s 31.
From this information we can see plainly that Ben Sheets has had fewer injury problems than Randy Wolf (that caused games to be missed, anyway), strikes out more batters than Randy Wolf, walks fewer batters than Randy Wolf, gives up fewer home runs than Randy Wolf, and is generally just a better pitcher.
I agree. It is TERRIFIC to really look at player values. I think you would just have a much better time understanding player values if you were actually looking at relevant information to reach your conclusions, markjsunz.
I would rather take the 17 more wins then losses , compared to Sheets 3 more wins then losses . The stats you are spewing have no value, they did not lead to wins. Any Stat other then a win loss record is pointless.
markjsunz,
So… Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets both make a start on the same day. They both go 7 innings. They both give up 3 earned runs. They both leave the game with a lead. Randy Wolf’s bullpen gets the save. Ben Sheet’s bullpen blows it. Randy Wolf gets a win. Ben Sheets gets a no decision.
Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets both make a start on the same day. The teams they are playing against have identical win-loss records and similar offensive rate statistics. They both go 7 innings. They both give up 3 earned runs. Randy Wolf’s team scores 5 runs. Ben Sheet’s team scores 2. Randy Wolf gets a win. Ben Sheets gets a loss.
You are completely mixed up. Wins and losses are not relevant to a pitcher’s talent level because there are so many ways the results can be altered that have nothing to do with the way the pitcher actually pitched.
The statistics I provided for you (spewing? you are getting increasingly hostile in your responses, and I’m not going to accept it.. especially when you are wrong) pull out those variables and get down to brass tacks — how many batters does he strikeout for every batter he walks, what does his earned run situation look like after you account for poor defensive players behind the pitcher, what are the pitcher’s home run rate stats? To say these stats have no value.. it’s shocking to hear someone say this. Instead of worrying about whether you are losing an argument on the internet, markjsunz, you should use this opportunity to examine the way you look at baseball and the factors that go into a specific player’s contribution and expected contributions going forward.
From 2001-2006, the Milwaukee Brewers never scored more than 740 runs and never finished higher than 3rd place (and they only finished 3rd once). From 2001-2006 the Philadelphia Phillies never finished lower than 3rd place with only one season of a below .500 record (2002 when they went 80-81).
To continue to suggest that wins and losses have anything to do with true talent level, or to continue to suggest that Randy Wolf is a better pitcher than Ben Sheets.. I don’t know whether that would be sad, or comical.
Withpower, you are a 100% correct. Don’t try arguing with Mark, he believes that Matt Kemp is destined to become the Yankees CF in a few years… just because they are the Yanks
You said”I am not going to accept it …Especially when you are wrong” You might as well hold your breath until you get your way junior. This is an internet website of rumors, and peoples opinions, it has nothing to do with real life. If it is so important to be right then I am happy to concede the point to you.
Hampton had four consecutive 200+ innings seasons prior to signing that mammoth deal with the Rockies. Try again.
I think Sheets is the best risk pitcher this off season. 5mil would be reasonable with some incentives. However, 12mil sounds like he wants another year off.
This is about where I fall.
But let’s be honest, Ben Sheets is deserving of a pretty significant incentive package. If I was his agent, I would see if I could get performance benchmarks that might jack the deal up way past $12MM. Like, $5-6MM base, potential to earn $15MM+.
Yeah, exactly. Not just straight up 12mil, but like 5mil with a chance to get 12mil if he pitches the way he is expected to.
If he wins the Cy, yeah 12MM sounds about right.
If it’s the Rangers then gg AL west.
no way its them. they have no money left. they even said themselves all they need now is an owner haha
With the spacious Safeco Field, and their top defense, if Sheets chose the AL you probably couldn’t find a better spot for a SP in the AL to throw up some great numbers even if he proved he wasn’t 100% for half the year.
I read something about Bedard last month that Seattle has been keeping weekly contact with him and his progress, and Bedard even stated back in September that he wants to return to Seattle…so who knows how this is going to pan out. I’ve heard different baseball analyst talk about Bedard having to take a minor league deal, and THEN when ready have a MLB base once he hits the 25-man roster with inning incentives on top of that for the rest of the year. It sounds like Seattle has the advantage on retaining Bedard, AND “if” they end up landing Sheets on top of that holy smokes is that a wicked rotation…and probably pushing RRS to the bullpen for a long relief role.
Interestingly, it appears that Seattle is still around $18-20M under their 2009 budget. So “if” they landed Sheets, and had Bedard in the wings when he is ready in May or June that would be deadly:
Felix
Lee
Sheets
Bedard
Snell
With RRS to bullpen. DAMN people!
They had the best ERA in 2009 without Lee and with Silva. Silva gone now, and add Lee/Sheets/Bedard/League OUTCH!
Top Defense, Top Pitching (including bullpen depth), awesome OBP, awesome Speed for Ichiro/Figgins in #1-2 spots.
THEY NEED POWER DESPERATLY THOUGH.
Don’t know if they got the prospects to pull off a Gonzo or Fielder trade, but there have been rumors all offseason that they’ve been talking to both teams. They land Gonzo or Fielder they would be MORE than contenders “if” they landed Sheets & Bedard (in the wings).
Interesting to see the Z Man at work again. Last year he had ZERO money to spend, and he pulled off a miraculous Putz trade for Chavez/Gutz and others. This year with a TON of money he still has a ton left and showing that he’s not spending just to spend.
Will be interesting to see if they land Sheets on a base/incentive deal.
Mariners do not have $18M left – from what i’ve gathered, they are close to maxing out their budget, probably only about $5 or 6M left. Probably could only do Sheets or Bedard but I wouldn’t think they could do both, unless they got Bedard at some ridiculous incentive deal.
best ERA in 2009*
in the AL, yes. 6th overall.
AL is much better than the NL…
He should’ve done this 2 months ago. I was really pushing for the Yanks to grab him. I think Vazquez will be a good pitcher for the Yanks but signing Sheets (If he had decided to let teams work out, reduce his asking price, etc) would’ve been a better move because it wouldn’t have cost us players.
The Phils need to sign him!!!
Now that is funny.
If Oakland got him they’d have the best pitching staff top to bottom in the game. Pushing the high upside Gio Gonzalez to 5th and slotting Sheets in behind Duscscherer-Anderson-Braden, in addition to the already best bullpen going, that would really show that they have started shoving their way into AL West title fight equations. If they had a 3B Id have no problem saying they are going to win upwards of 85 games.
The Colesium is also a pretty great place for a once dominant guy like Sheets to regain his form and re-establish value. The A’s have nothing but gold glove quality OFers too…if i was a SP I’d look long and hard at them.
the mets should sign sheet to a 2 yr 20mm deal
1st year 5mm base with incentives that can bring it up to 10mm
2nd year a 13 year deal
option 3rd year 17MM with a (2MM buyout cause)
NOTE that the Mets should be a opt out cause if he lands in the dl for more then 30 days
or any injurying regarding the elbow they can opt out for the 2nd and 3rd year. Note this will only be on the first year of the contract.
I believe the Mets have the money to do this. If sheet goes to the 3 years that 40MM for a number 1 pitcher. That will be a great deal for the Mets.
The Rangers plan to attend is a headscratcher. They must be hoping for a huge hometown discount or something because I don’t see how the money or the roster space right now to sign Sheets.
Twins should go after thisguy if they want a pitcher. He will either be the ace they really need or will fail and the twins have duensing or liriano to step in to the whole he leaves
To understand Rowland-Smith’s talent you must watch him pitch, its pretty evident that this guy can pitch 200+ innings if he stays healthy. As for Snell he still has upside, he is young and throws hard, IF CAN JUST THROW STRIKES I don’t see why he could not be a solid 180-195 inning guy who can hand a 5-3 game to the Ms great bullpen! As for Sheets, Sign Felix long term FIRST!!!!!!
*comment moved*
*comment moved*
sheets hopefully will end up with rangers!
sheets hopefully will end up with rangers!
OK. Every team should get him I suppose!
Please stop posting “Oh the Twins should get him” “The Rangers should get him” “The Tigers should get him” “The Phillies get him” WE GET THE FREAKING POINT
“The Cardinals should get him” “The Rangers should get him” “The Mariners should get him” “The D-Backs should get him” WE GET THE FREAKING POINT. If you’re a fan of baseball you probably have a team that should get Ben Sheets.
I’m not saying this as a Houston Homer, but I am kinda scared Ed Wade signs him to a ridiculous contract…Wonder if Houston is thinking about it…Mike Hampy all over well, more years anyhow
After watching Zambrano’s Jekyll & Hyde impression the past couple years the pessimistic Cubs fan in me says that a healthy Sheets would be the ace in the rotation to start the season. Not sure how long Lilly will be out but over the past 2 seasons he has been the ace of the rotation. Or at the very least the most consistently decent guy in the rotation. Zambrano can be one of the most dominating pitchers in the game when he is on, but it seems like there is just as much of a chance of him giving up 8 ER in 3 innings as there is going 7 shutout innings.
I just dont see him as a guy that I want on the mound in a “must win” game. Honestly there isn’t anyone in the rotation that I would consider to be that. Ted Lilly while never really overpowering or dominate would be the closest. Seemed to always be the stopper in the roation when no one else is getting it done. Despite the infamous ’07 NLDS Chris Young glove slam he is able to keep his emotions from affecting his pitching unlike Zambrano.
Very good call on Zambrano…….. So many of my fellow cubs fans have such a man crush on him that they are to blind/stupid to see it. He is ridiculously overpaid for the numbers he has posted the last 3 years and comes no where close to the other pitchers in his pay grade. Best move for the cubs would be to move him for some youth. This team is going to have to start getting younger at some point. might as well get something for him while he has some value. I found it interesting that the Yanks were interested in him. I feel like he would get destroyed in that division. Just destroyed.
Very good call on Zambrano…….. So many of my fellow cubs fans have such a man crush on him that they are to blind/stupid to see it. He is ridiculously overpaid for the numbers he has posted the last 3 years and comes no where close to the other pitchers in his pay grade. Best move for the cubs would be to move him for some youth. This team is going to have to start getting younger at some point. might as well get something for him while he has some value. I found it interesting that the Yanks were interested in him. I feel like he would get destroyed in that division. Just destroyed.
After watching Zambrano’s Jekyll & Hyde impression the past couple years the pessimistic Cubs fan in me says that a healthy Sheets would be the ace in the rotation to start the season. Not sure how long Lilly will be out but over the past 2 seasons he has been the ace of the rotation. Or at the very least the most consistently decent guy in the rotation. Zambrano can be one of the most dominating pitchers in the game when he is on, but it seems like there is just as much of a chance of him giving up 8 ER in 3 innings as there is going 7 shutout innings.
I just dont see him as a guy that I want on the mound in a “must win” game. Honestly there isn’t anyone in the rotation that I would consider to be that. Ted Lilly while never really overpowering or dominate would be the closest. Seemed to always be the stopper in the roation when no one else is getting it done. Despite the infamous ’07 NLDS Chris Young glove slam he is able to keep his emotions from affecting his pitching unlike Zambrano.
Blue Jays are watching according to Jeff Blair and Jordan Bastian.
http://www.torontosportsinsight.weebly.com
Blue Jays are watching according to Jeff Blair and Jordan Bastian.
http://www.torontosportsinsight.weebly.com
As a Brewer fan, I just hope he signs with a team not in our division. Go to the Blue Jays or something. A great pitcher when healthy, but that’s not the case for him to often.
Is there any way Sabean can get on in this? Sheets can be a very VERY good 4th starter. I don’t believe Bumgarner is ready and needs a little more seasoning in AAA. If I remember correctly Sabean offered Penny a 1 year deal in the range of 7-9 million. Is there any way he can offer this to Sheets?
odds of landing Sheets:
Dodgers: 33%
Orioles: 19%
Cards: 13%
Mariners: 12%
Mets: 10%
Yankees: 8%
Angels: 5%
Jim Hendry: 0.01%
and you are a Dodgers fan and I suppose you have a Math degree or something….
Jim Hendry: 0.01%
Hahahahaha
The Angels have lost some players, they need some one like Sheets, bad!
Yomuri Giants need Sheets.
If I were gonna spend 10MM plus on an injury question mark type pitcher… Then it would go wang.. Bedard..sheets..smoltz I’d like the cardinals pick up Wang… If he can win 19 games in the AL East ( albeit with lots of run support ), I’d trust him in a neutral park like Busch, good fan base, guru pitching coach, and easy division/league.
Just a question.. Does Wang speak halfway decent English? Not being prejudice, but it could hurt him working with non-manderin speaking coaches.
You believe he’ll get 10MM+ guaranteed? He might get an incentive laden deal that earn him up to 10MM+, but he hasn’t earned that much guaranteed money given his injury history.
You believe he’ll get 10MM+ guaranteed? He might get an incentive laden deal that earn him up to 10MM+, but he hasn’t earned that much guaranteed money given his injury history.
The Dodgers will get him. They have the money, and they haven’t made any big moves. but it could be a total suprise who gets him a la Chapman going to the Reds.
Because of the divorce, I have doubts that the Dodgers will get anyone substantial now. Sheets might want more security to go to a team that he knows he can stay on the team.
Really hope the Cubs get him. In the Chicago Tribune they had a really an awful scary projected rotation to start the season.
Zambrano
Dempster
Wells
Gorzelanny
Silva/ Samardzija
That does not look good! Think they want to trade Silva for… oh never mind!
Really hope the Cubs get him. In the Chicago Tribune they had a really an awful scary projected rotation to start the season.
Zambrano
Dempster
Wells
Gorzelanny
Silva/ Samardzija
I predict that when it is all said and done Ben Sheets will be a Seattle Mariner. he is a fly ball pitcher and safe co field is tailor made for his pitching style. Ben sheets would be really nasty in Seattle. plus he would be reunited with his old GM Jack Z.
nice to hear that we are interested in sheets, a one-two punch of santana-sheets is nasty. SIGN HIM UP!!!
wouldn’t be surprised if Minaya went crazy to sign Sheets! And it wouldnt actually be his worst investment, if Sheets was healthy, as long as they don’t give something like 5yrs/55M
CUBS GETTIN SHEETS WHAT A ROTATION ZAM SHEETS LILLY DEMP WELLS
I would rather see a Bedard signing here or possibly both imagine Felix, lee, Bedard, Sheets, Ryan Roland Smith. Someone asked earlier if we had the pitchers to protect sheets yes we have three back end rotation guys in our bullpen Olson, French, Fister.
PLEASE with the Seattle Mariners stuff. They’ve had a good offseason, but they don’t have a huge amount of money to spend. If he was going cheap they could get him but I can’t see the Mariners getting him at all. Right now the Cubs are the favorites, it’s indisputable.
As of the 10th of January, Cotts baseball contracts, has the Mariners at about $66 mil committed to next season’s team. This of course doesn’t include a large number of players making league min, or less, and doesn’t include arbitration cases (like Felix) in it yet. Right now, there’s only 3-4 players eligible for that and that’ll probably only add another $14 mil at most (probably less) + Gutierrez’s new deal (~$3 mil for 2010) + a ~$1 mil for Ackley. So that takes us to roughly $84 mil. Currently, 12 spots on the Mariner’s roster are covered by players at league min, so that’s another $5 mil roughly so up to $89 mil. And seeing how last years roster was just barely under $99 mil, we can pretty easily assume that there is around $10 mil left in the budget after all other costs are assessed.
For the Mariners Sheets is worth the gamble. He may turn out like Erik Bedard but at least he won’t cost us the likes of Adam Jones to get him. Felix, Lee, Sheets, RRS, Snell?
Expect the two LA teams to get in on sheets, dodgers have done very little except for extending Kemp, and the Angels lost Figgins and Lackey. My bet would be the angels, and after them, probably the mets because of their lack of starting pitching depth
I think people are really giving sheets to much credit – AKA EVERY CUBS FAN. Keep in mind this guy hasn’t pitched competitively in over 12 months. I would not go over a 3 million dollar base salary. Give incentives, and you’ll be fine. He was a very good pitcher before, but so was Wang, he hadn’t pitched in a year removed from winning 19 games in the al east. How did he do this year?
I hope the mariners will sign him because that will help there rotation a lot and it would be
1.Felix Hernandez
2.Cliff Lee
3.Ben Sheets
4.Ian Snell
5.Ryan Rowland-Smith
Enough with these updates of teams going to watch him throw. Every hour theirs a new team.
Blue Jays
Cubs
Mets
Cardinals
Angels
Mariners
Rangers
Twins
Yankees
Red Sox
Dodgers
We get it their is going to be a bunch of teams watching him. It would be better if you guys a had a headline when he signed instead of posting the same thing.