Next in our Offseason In Review series, the White Sox.
Major League Signings
- J.J. Putz, RP: one year, $3MM.
- Mark Kotsay, OF: one year, $1.5MM.
- Omar Vizquel, IF: one year, $1.375MM.
- Freddy Garcia, SP: one year, $1MM. Club option exercised.
- Ramon Castro, C: one year, $1MM. Includes $1.2MM club option for '11 with $200K buyout.
- Andruw Jones, OF: one year, $500K.
- Total spend: $8.375MM (not included in this number is Matt Thornton's $2.25MM club option, as he would've been arbitration-eligible anyway).
Notable Minor League Signings
Extensions
- Mark Teahen, 3B: three years, $14MM. Bought out two arbitration years and one free agent year.
Trades and Claims
- Claimed OF Alejandro de Aza off waivers from Marlins
- Acquired 3B Mark Teahen and $1.5MM from Royals for 2B Chris Getz and 3B Josh Fields
- Acquired OF Juan Pierre and $10.5MM from Dodgers for P Jon Link and P John Ely
- Claimed RP Freddy Dolsi off waivers from Tigers
Notable Losses
- Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome, D.J. Carrasco, Octavio Dotel, Chris Getz, Josh Fields, Dewayne Wise, Jon Link, John Ely, Wilson Betemit, Jerry Owens, Bartolo Colon, Jimmy Gobble
Summary
The White Sox made a pair of big moves last summer, acquiring Jake Peavy and Alex Rios. Peavy has three years and $52MM remaining, while Rios has five years and $59.7MM. While those were huge commitments, GM Kenny Williams was still pretty active this offseason.
Williams managed to spread $8.375MM over six veteran free agents, keeping his risk low. Williams' riskier moves were the acquisitions of Pierre and Teahen, who will both be given starting jobs. On the open market, would Pierre have matched the two-year, $8MM commitment taken on by the White Sox? And why not go year-to-year with Teahen, who hasn't hit like a corner infielder since '06?
Based on CHONE projections and the Baseball Musings lineup analysis tool, the Sox should score around 780 runs in 2010. That'd place in the middle of the AL and above last year's output, though the projection is probably optimistic since it doesn't account for injuries. There is a decent chance Chicago's offense remains below-average. It would've been worth putting the $2MM used on Jones and Kotsay toward a more productive free agent DH.
Using CHONE projections for earned runs while tweaking their innings estimates, it does seem reasonable to envision the club ranking second in the AL again in starter ERA. The highest projection among their front four is Gavin Floyd's 4.33. Bullpen-wise, the addition of Putz and a full season of Tony Pena offsets the losses of Dotel and Carrasco. Defensively, the Sox will benefit from the subtraction of Dye.
The 2010 White Sox will potentially suffer subpar production at traditionally offensive spots – left field, third base, and designated hitter. They still look like contenders, but it'll be on the strength of their run prevention.
The White Sox lineup is gonna surprise a lot of people this year with how offensively productive it is. Don’t mind being the underdog though, we consistently don’t get the respect we deserve and usually exceed expectations.
Not sure what respect you think you deserve?
You play in the craptastic AL Central. You’ve been to the playoffs twice since 2001. You’ve finished below 500 twice in that same span. The White Sox have been a model of consistency and mediocrity. Nothing wrong with being a 500 ball club – a lot of teams would take that. Just not much to get fired up about.
And yes, we all know about your World Series win. It was very impressive and very exciting. The White Sox were inspired in the post-season. But really, outside of 2005, the White Sox have been a wholly unremarkable team for an entire decade.
2010 will be no different. Another 3rd place finish. Probably close to 500 ball. Trailing behind the Twins and Tigers. They could absolutely win the AL Central with a return to form by Peavy and Rios. Or they could be a sub 500 club if either player gets injured or doesn’t play better than they did in 09.
I wish I knew you personally so I could have you bet me and take your money…
i think he means that the White Sox usually outperform PECOTA projections and etc.
the bamf man gets it.
You could cut and paste this and place it under 20 other teams. Your prediction took so much thought….not! I know what this guy is saying and we are dogged every year. That is 3 postseasons in a decade and a 90 win season thrown in there. For a team that has had their payroll I would like for you to show me a WS title and 2 other playoff appearences…..We all know about the Rays of course. The White Sox have been very exciting and deserve your respect young lady/man.
Damn, I accidently hit “like”. Not sure if there is an “unlike” button….
Anyway….I would like to think 2006 was more than an “unremarkable” season. 95 wins seems pretty good to me, regardless of finishing 2nd.
What about the Tigers says good let alone 2nd in the division?
In the past decade the AL Central has had 5 managers of the year(most in that span), produced 5 of the 10 Cy Young winners and they have all come in the past 6 years, if you haven’t noticed thats when Ozzie Guillen became the manager of the Sox. It’s not that the AL Central is “craptastic” it’s that every team just beats on each other for the entire season. In a division with pitchers of the likes of Justin Verlander, Zack Greinkie, Jake Peavy, and so on and so forth is the division “craptastic” or is it the power hitters like Cabrera, Carlos Quentin, Justin Morneau, and now Joe Mauer. Then once you’ve thought about that…look at the AL west the past decade where the Mariners and Oakland haven’t been relevent for 5 years and Texas has been at the bottom of that division for so long until recent…
In the past decade the AL Central has had 5 managers of the year(most in that span), produced 5 of the 10 Cy Young winners and they have all come in the past 6 years, if you haven’t noticed thats when Ozzie Guillen became the manager of the Sox. It’s not that the AL Central is “craptastic” it’s that every team just beats on each other for the entire season. In a division with pitchers of the likes of Justin Verlander, Zack Greinkie, Jake Peavy, and so on and so forth is the division “craptastic” or is it the power hitters like Cabrera, Carlos Quentin, Justin Morneau, and now Joe Mauer. Then once you’ve thought about that…look at the AL west the past decade where the Mariners and Oakland haven’t been relevent for 5 years and Texas has been at the bottom of that division for so long until recent…
The starting staff looks fine, the bullpen not so good, but the problem is the infield defense is probably the worst in baseball. Add to that what is certain to be the lowest OBP in baseball and minimal power and the White Sox are going nowhere in2010.
Rios and Konerko are the only two starters that can play any D, that will offset too much for that pitching to overcome.
I don’t really see how you can say they have a bad bullpen, Thornton is arguably the best setup man in the game, Jenks even in a down year last year was a serviceable closer, and if Putz goes anything back to his old form the pen could be scary. While I agree the D is not great, it should be improved with Beckham being at 2nd instead of 3rd, Pierre over Pods in left, and Quentin over Dye in right.
Bullpen; I have zero faith in Putz, I like Thornton but that’s the only guy in that pen I would want.
Teahen is as bad as they come at third and with no power, BA or OBP numbers, it’s a problem. Beckham is no better than Getz at 2 defensively, but may be there in a year or two. He is certainly better suited to 2nd than anywhere else defensively, but he isn’t on the team for D. Pierre is every bit as bad as Pods in left and Quentin has no right going anywhere near RF,he runs like Herman Munster and may only play a few more games than him. Rios is going to be covering enough ground everyday to keep his attention though, that may help him.
It’s all just opinion but I really think this team has trouble with it’s everyday lineup. In any other division in baseball, they are in 3rd.
I’m not a Sox fan, so I’m no homer speaking when I tell you I think Teahen has a real shot at a breakout similar to Michael Barrett’s a few years ago. That is, moved to a team where he finally has a defined role to play every day, he may yet blossom. Kind of a possible poor man’s Carney Lansford type.
Putz was a fine closer in Seattle & was hurt in New York so there’s no reason to write him off before this season even begins as though he’s been some kind of flop for years. Let’s see a body of work for Beckham at second base before writing him off as a defensive failure.
Probably would be 3rd in the East & 2nd in the West but they play in the Central so it really doesn’t make any difference how they’d do elsewhere.
Defensively, choosing between Pods and Pierre is like choosing between the stomach flu versus a hemorrhoidal flare-up.
If the White Sox have a good year, they will have to win a lot of low scoring games. That means Jenks is going to have to save 45-50. I don’t see the Sox lineup out-slugging anybody in the A.L.
Here I can name some teams for you. Toronto, TB, Minnesota, KC, Anaheim, Orioles, Seattle, Oakland. White Sox O is underrated if you ask me. I am a homer yes, of course. A number of people look at Teahen and point the finger in his direction but he will better offensively than what we had most of the year at third. Alexei is a plus offensive player at short and Beckham will be also. The fact is we lost a .250 hitter and a .249 hitter from last season along with ScoPo. We will not hit as many HR’s, but that will be the only thing the offense will not be better than it was last year. I say we have enough pitching to get in and see KW picking up a bat in July.
Pierre was great in a limited sample in left field last season, and Quentin was a very strong right fielder for the Diamondbacks, although it’s tough to put stock in that at this point, several years and injuries later (especially given last season’s foot injuries).
There’s also no telling how Beckham will field at second base for now, and Ramirez was slightly above-average at shortstop in 2009.
While it’s true that their defense has a lot of question marks, it certainly could be average or even above average. Obviously, as a Twins fan, I’m hoping it falls short of even average, but there’s no real justification for writing them off right now.
And as for the lowest OBP in baseball, the White Sox were 20th last season. While they’ve subtracted some nice OBPs like Thome and Podsednik, I can’t see them falling 10 spots to the bottom.
The White Sox rotation alone will be good enough to keep them in contention in a weak AL Central, provided they stay healthy (especially Jake Peavy).
I agree they should stay in contention, but that’s only because the Twins are playing outdoors in Minnesota.
I still don’t get that one.
Look what this team did once Dye stopped producing last year, they need career years from a lot of guys in 2010, that’s never a good sign.
We’ll stay in contention for more then that. our lineup is almost the exact same as the twins except Maurer. Leaving us to look at pitching. Which we have way better pitching. Causing myself to believe we have the division.
“We’ll stay in contention for more then that. our lineup is almost the exact same as the twins except Maurer”
_____________________________________________________
These lineups are nothing even close to each other. The Sox have no one on the team who will take a walk, look at the OBP numbers, there is no comparison. The Twins have the best defense in baseball, the Sox will again be near the bottom of baseball in defense. The Twins will again be one of the best teams fundamentally, the Sox will again be one of the worst. The Sox have the potential to put a good pitching staff together, but better not need to go to their pen.
These teams are nothing alike and much closer to opposites than anything else.
Ya they are a like.
Twins will be using a rotation DH. Sox will.
Twins are hoping for JJ rebounds and does better in a new scenery. The sox hope for the same with Teahan
The Twins put alot of faith in O-dog. Who in his last two, (I’m not sure about 07) hasn’t finished the season(starting) Sox are hoping Rios bounces back to form.
Twins have a glaring hole at 3rd, the sox have a weird DH thing going on.
Finally, the Twins hope for a full recovery from Morneau and that his injuries do not pop up again. The sox hope Quentin is fully recovered and that his injuries stay down.
You see they are the same. The big difference here is the pitching giving the upper hand to the Sox.
That’s a real reach.
How is it a reach. You can’t claim something with out evidence.
The Twins scored almost a 100 runs more than the Sox. Hardy and Hudson can’t be worse than Castilla and Punto.
They also had Orlando Cabrera for half the season to help with that.
Ha whatever dude.
I sure hope you are kidding, you can’t be that blind can you? Put the lineups next to each other and compare.
No I’m not, and I have.
I was thinking the same thing. I think people say crazy things sometimes just to get a reaction.
Trust me I’m not trying to get a reaction.That wasn’t my point entirely. People just assume the twins lineup will be good. They still have question marks and holes just like the sox.
im a tigers fan and cant believe you are stacking the sox lineup up to the twins. minnesota has mauer, morneau, kubel, cuddyer, some days thome being major producers. the sox have…konerko, beckham, injury plagued quentin, and aj pierzynski? the only real deal outta that bunch is beckham. the sox pitching deffinitly outdoes the twins but you have no buisness comparing their lineups
If you read the above things. You would see I wasn’t comparing those guys. I was comparing JJ, 3rd base, Morneau to Quentin teahan and Rios.
What is your hang up on the Sox bullpen?
I’d like to agree, but the Twins lineup is much better than ours.
Because of their catcher.
No, because they have better hitters.
Span > Rios
Kubel > Jones/Kotsay
Morneau > Konerko
I can go on…
I guess I’m just different I am impressed with Morneau but he is coming off an injury. and Kubel has never really impressed me.
“Kubel has never really impressed me.”
Biased much?
What exactly did you do when Kubel came to bat last year? Changed the channel?
No I just watch the game. I just looked at his stats, ok he impresses me.
BIG upgrades.
My simulator has the White Sox as around an 82 win team.
I agree, but it’s hard to believe Kenny will go into the season with the team looking like this, I’m looking for a substantial trade on the horizon. If this team doesn’t get a couple guys to get on base and drive in runs, they have no real shot this year.
Plus, the 09 team had the fewest games in the majors lost to injury, those numbers have a strong history of evening out.
The health of the top four in their rotation is absolutely essential for the White Sox to succeed. If any combination of Peavy, Buerhle, Danks, or Floyd miss significant time with injury, they have nothing to replace them with. They are really all the Sox have to rely on. Their offense isn’t going to carry the team, so those four must. Any loss there and the White Sox hopes are likely lost right along with them.
The health of the top four in their rotation is absolutely essential for the White Sox to succeed………..replace White Sox there with any team and that sentence could get canned up and posted under any team.
Everybody would be screwed if their entire front 4 went down.
By simulator you mean MLB2k10 for PS3 and pushing start to simulate the season?
No he means his simulator. A program he made, works pretty damn well.
Losing Thome , Dye & Pods then Bringing in Teahen , Andruw Jones , Pierre & Vizquel are not upgrades that would be considerd downgrading. Quentin is a huge injury risk , you can say all you want about how he will stay healthy but the fact is he has been injured for a long period of time EVERY year. Rios is a bum , I seen him play in Toronto many times and he looks like a guy who cashed in on a big contract and no longer cares. He actually told fans in a video he no longer cares but in stronger language. Rameriz is a decent offensive player but a mess in the field. Starting pitching should be solid but I see the offense being one of the weaker in the division. The thing that worries me the most is the depth , because there is none. One injury to JP or MB it’s 2009 all over again.
I agree, Rios is a disinterested bum.
The only thing worse than having Rios for another 5 years/$60 million would be having Soriono for another 5 years/$90 million.
Thats a burn.
No depth? Carlos Torres was the AAA Pitcher of the Year last year and Dan Hudson was the Minor League Pitcher of the Year last year.
Losing Thome sucks. But replacing .249 and 23 HR can easily be done with Kotsay/Jones. Kotsay hit .278 with 4HR in 206 PA. Jones hit .214 with 17HR in 331 PA. That pretty much equals what Thome did for us with actually extremely better base running.
Replacing Getz with Teahen make sense because you are making up for the lack of speed with Rios. You get the same BA but Teahen will give you 15-20HR in The Cell.
Replacing Dye with Rios you get more speed and extremely better defense. If Rios bounces back which there is no indication he won’t. He can put up a 20/20 season easily in The Cell.
Replacing Pods with Pierre I like. Pierre is faster, steals more bases, gets picked off less, and runs the bases better. Their defense is a wash. Pierre can lay down a bunt much better than Pods.
Ummm… Carlos Torres !!!!! Are we both speaking about the 27 year old SP that had a 6 Era in 28 innings last year ? 28 Innings of professional ball at the age of 27 , you call that depth ! Hudson has the skills to be a great pitcher , but if peavy goes down or buerhle he can’t physically pick those innings up and go deep into games due to pitch count. I am sure any pitcher in the major leagues would tell you that they would pitch little more careful around Thome then the washed up talents of Mark Kotsay or Andruw Jones. Those two do not even compare to the presence Thome brings to the plate. Getz is horrible so I guess Teahen is a little better but still should not be starting in a “contending” lineup. Rios is just a jerk , has the talent but is not interested in playing as hard as he should. Ozzie got in his head at the end of last year and he will crumble by the half way mark. Pierre had 30 SB last year which would be decent if he didn’t get caught stealing 12 times and he isn’t getting any younger. Another tidbit Pierre had a OPS of .685 last time he was in a starting role. Don’t get me wrong Pods sucks at stealing bases to but he had a .764 OPS at least.
I’m mostly worried about the lineup’s lack of top level performance. It remains to be seen what they’ll get out of Quentin and Rios and Pierre and Teahen are underwhelming.
I like the upside, but it seems like a lineup that could totally fall flat on it’s face.
If Quentin is healthy he will hit. Obviously the Sox believe he’s healthy or they would have gotten more offense.
The best sign they made this winter was JJ Putz. In considering this offseason you really have to include the additions of Jake Peavy and Alex Rios in this mix as this will be the first full year with the team. I personally LOVE the Peavy pickup but I HATE HATE HATE the Rios one. Teahen is an infield upgrade as now they can move Beckham to 2nd, be rid of Getz and put Teahen at third. Simple, would I rather have the bat of Getz or Teahen in my lineup? Teahen. The question is did the additions of Peavy, Rios, Teahen, Pierre and Jones outweigh the losses of Dye, Thome, Getz, and Podsednik? That’s a close one but I would give the slight edge to the 2010 Sox with an organizational shift of formula for winning games. Sox fans are gonna see a much different product than what they are used to seeing this year at US Cellular field. Offseason w/Peavy & Rios = B+. Offseason w/o Peavy & Rios = C
If a former closer who’s elbow is patched together and rely’s heavily on a slider is your best pickup your in deep trouble. Peavy is a stud , Teahen should not be a starter , same with Jones and same with Pierre. Once Pierre gets to the AL he is going to be dreadful.
Because he was so dreadful in the NL West with Peavy, Lincecum, Harren, Young, Cain, etc. Oh wait, he wasn’t.
Pierre was a salary dump, not exactly sure what the hell you are so happy about?
To be honest, before last season, Pierre was quite dreadful in LA.
What exactly is terrible?
2007 = 668AB, 64SB, .293BA
2008 = 375AB, 40SB, .283BA
2009 = 380AB, 30SB, .308BA
Ya, slightly overpaid, but far from terrible. Defense and arm are questionable, but terrible is not a word I would use in the least for Pierre. Nice addition for the discounted price to go with other nice additions to the White Sox.
correct, dreadful is not a word I would use to describe Pierre.
Yeah, if you are living in 1990 and the best ways to measure player performance are BA and SB. He doesn’t take a walk, gets caught stealing more often than you’d like, and is not a great defensive player, along with a complete lack of power. He’s older, and not likely to improve, but rather, given his reliance on speed, extremely likely to decline. Yeah, that’s not terrible. Only thing that’s not terrible about the deal is LAD picking up most of his salary – but his roster spot is wasted.
His OBP never went above .340 until last year.
Yeah, this team has the potential to win some games if everything goes right for them (granted, that is said about every club), but man does it look like a disaster waiting to happen.
A disaster waiting to happen? I think that is bit of an overstatement.
Hardly. 4 potential replacement-level spots in the lineup (Rios, Pierre, AJ, Jones/Kotsay), 2 likely average-at-best spots in the lineup (Teahen and Ramirez), and then the Sophomore (Gordon), the old-man (Konerko) and the injury-prone (Q). Not exactly awe-inspiring if things dont turn up roses.
Then a rotation of 5 guys with varying degrees of questions (and no depth) in front of what has the potential to be the worst defensive infield in the game and better but still unspectacular D in the outfield.
Disaster is the proper terminology here.
Worst defensive infield in baseball…lol. They’re not good, but they’re nowhere near the worst. Teahen is projected around -6 WAR at 3B. Beckham is a project +2. Ramirez is a projected +2, and Konerko is neutral. You’re looking at a -2 UZR infield with Kotsay and Vizquel as backups, two plus fielders. The infield is mediocre.
The outfield defense will be mediocre to slightly above average. The only question mark is Quentin out there.
Ramirez and Konerko are probably around neutral, Teahen has historically been one of the bottom 3 fielders in the game at 3B and Beckham has never played 2B (well, 4 games). Yes, that has potential to be one of the worst fielding infields in the game with a unspectacular outfield behind them.
So should I listen to your subjective opinion or CHONE? Hmm…
Even if we give Teahen his -12.5 UZR/150 over the past three seasons (from a sample size of only 1000 innings), this infield is around a -10, which is far from worst in the game. Plus, Teahen got this -12.5 from playing RF, 3B, LF, and even 2B at the same time. He was a utility player that was everywhere on the field. Having one position and staying at one position helps every player. It should also help Teahen a bit. It won’t make him a positive fielder, but it won’t make him as bad, which is why he is projected at a -6 UZR.
Gordon Beckham was a shortstop in college, what makes you think he can’t play 2B when his defense at SS was rated to be above average?
Beckham was a decent 3rd baseman by the end of the year. He’ll use ST to get his bearings at 2b and will be fine by the start of the season. Ramirez also improved greatly at SS as the season went on so I expect him to be competent.
Subjective opinion? Right man, I root for both clubs and merely give facts that apparently White Sox diehards cant handle hearing…
Really, only E5, Wiggington and Cantu have worst UZR/150 rankings over the last three years at 3B. For as much grief as we gave Fields, Teahen is in a perfect tie with him! Yeah, Teahen is basically Fields with the glove. Try to talk yourself into whatever you want to believe but the guy posted a -10.9 UZR/150 at 3B last season – that is horrific
And Beckham has never played 2B. It doesnt matter how good people thought he might be on the left side, he will be on the right side now. Its a whole different ballgame and not all shortstops become good fielding 2B.
Then you have those two likely/possible shortcoming affecting the play of the fairly average fielders on the sides of them. It is quite possible not a single one of the 4 ends up with a positive UZR, and it wouldnt be shocking to see -9 at 3B, -3 at SS, -6 at 2B and -2 at 1B from the 4 which would fit right in with my “potential to be the worst fielding infield in the game” statement.
Facts..or your version of facts.
That’s still subjective. You’re throwing numbers out the window and stating that this would be the “worst” infield in baseball when it’s not even close.
Teahen was actually the 4th worst, BTW, lol. Josh Fields was even worse over the past 3 seasons. What you’re also not looking at is the fact that Teahen did in fact have one good season at 3B in 2006. That’s a sign that saying that it is possible for him to possibly improve. What’s even more telling is that he ONLY played 3B that year, you see the connections here?
2B is the far easier position than SS, it requires much less range and arm strength. If Gordon’s range was above average for a SS according to scouts, then it should be above average as well at 2B. I can think of numerous examples where a player went from SS and 2B and exceeded. One of them is Felipe Lopez, another is Dustin Pedroia. Those are two off the top of my head. He never played 3B before either and he didn’t blow up last year.
“You’re throwing numbers out the window and stating that this would be the “worst” infield in baseball when it’s not even close. ”
Hardly. If you know anything about UZR, it is expected to fluctuate year to year within a few points. If Ramirez and Konerko are average as almost everyone agrees, its just as likely they post a -3 as a +3 – this is especially true with questions at 2B and 3B. Teahen should not be expected to be better then -7 Chone projects for him. Beckham its anyone’s guess and he could be anywhere from -5 to +5 for all anyone knows. Hence “the potential” (which you seem unable to grasp the concept of)
“Teahen was actually the 4th worst, BTW, lol. Josh Fields was even worse over the past 3 seasons.”
0.1 point difference, meaning there is no difference. Teahen has been Fields.
“What you’re also not looking at is the fact that Teahen did in fact have one good season at 3B in 2006.”
Surrounded by 3 horrific ones.
“What’s even more telling is that he ONLY played 3B that year, you see the connections here? ”
He “ONLY” played 3B in 2005 as well and posted a -17. He was also “ONLY” a 3B in the minors but was said to be horrific there too. But that one season in 2006 where his defense wasnt that bad is the outlier in his career. Feel free to expect the best if you somehow insist on doing so, but that doesnt begin to change the “potential” the entire conversation is based off, does it?
By the way, have you checked the actual CHONE projections on their site?
-4 A.J.
+0 Konerko
+2 Beckham
-7 Teahen
-2 Ramirez
+4 Pierre
+0 Rios
-3 Quentin
Then the worst fielding team in 2009
-2 Kendall
-6 Butler
+3 Getz
+0 Gordon
-9 Betancourt
+7 Pods
+0 Ankiel
+10 DeJesus
so,
White Sox
Total infield = (-)11
Overall total = (-)10
Royals
Total infield = (-)14
Overall total = +3
You were saying?
And yes, if Beckham doesn’t produce the +2 they projected him to have at 3B, and instead produces even around a 0 to -3 after the move to the new side of the infield, then you are looking at an infield defense just as bad to worse then the one the Royals are projected to field.
So apparently the projected stats you want to use support my “potential outcome” more then your average to slightly above argument. Kind of ironic, isnt it?
I don’t get where people think Ramirez is even average, the guy has been terrible in the field for the last two years. He looks an awful lot like Soriano did when he was a middle infielder, he’ll make some great plays but is horrible on the routine. His footwork around second is as bad as it gets and he is constantly out of position, he desperately needs a 2nd baseman that is very solid and certainly won’t get that from Beckham.
In 2008, Ramirez was the lowest rated 2nd baseman in the league, and he may have picked up a little statistically in 09, but he was regularly falling asleep and was as lazy as any player in baseball.
Kenny should have traded him while he could have got something decent back.
At least he is cheap, and that is a big part of why the White Sox will keep him, it sure isn’t for his play.
You forgot about how Konerko saves Ramirez 10-15 errors a year by digging routine throws out of the dirt.
I agree the starting rotation has some question marks attached. Buehrle ran out of gas, big time last year (only 2 wins after his perfect game in mid-July). He has a lot of miles on him and is not getting any younger. Danks also finished the season out of gas. Sweaty Freddie Garcia really is no better than everyone else’s 5th starter.
The Sox pitchers have been very good at staying healthy. I’m wondering if the law of averages is going to catch up to them at some point this year.
To his credit though, Buehrle pitched well enough to get the win despite taking the loss in some of those post-perfecto outings.
That’s ok. I know you’re down on the Sox because you like the Cubs, and really that’s unfortunate. By the way, I love your comment about our rotation that ESPN called the 3rd best rotation in baseball in their story about the Top 5. Cubs weren’t on the list…awwww.
But I’d rather be an average team on paper by your standards and then eclipse them easily than be a team like the Cubs and be an outstanding and overpaid team on paper and always do worse than expectations.
its unfortunate that anytime a fan of both Chicago teams makes a rational statement about the White Sox that diehard White Sox fans feel the need to go into “youre a Cubs fan” mode and give the hyperbolic defensive and deflective responses.
You’re a Cubs and a Sox fan, that’s something I just don’t understand in itself.
Most Cubs fans would simultaneously root for the Sox if not for the SouthSide fans.
Agreed. I thought the 2005 World Series ring would cure White Sox fans of the Cub-envy they’ve been saddled with.
The Cubs have a larger fan base than the White Sox. What’s the big deal?
Most White Sox fans I know take more pleasure in the Cubs losing than the Sox winning.
If I were a Sox fan, I’d worry more about Minnesota and less about the Cubs.
If it’s “Cub Envy”, then why are Cubs homers like you and Suzysman so quick to jump into Chisox entries?
PS-I saw a lot of Astros pennants hung on the Northside during the 2005 WS as well…
Oh, I get it, no one is allowed to talk about the white sox if they dont have a sock tattooed on their forehead?
Anyway, look, you have been about as incorrect as any person could ever possibly be in this thread while you tried to claim I was something I wasnt and dismissed my facts which are backed up by CHONE and only dismissed by hopeful Sox “homers” like yourself who are unable to accept anything that doesnt smell said about your club unless it smells like roses.
All I can really say is that I am sorry you are so insecure over your team that you feel the need to attack and dismiss anyone who doesnt drop to their knees and praise everything Sox related till they bleed. But that is your issues, not mine. On the other hand, thanks for proving my point though!
Again, you fsail to tell the truth- I have noted many things that I do not like about this 2010 lineup in previous threads for this season. I just do not understand your vitriol against any one who may not share your opinion than your elevated sense of self worth. This is not just me, but anyone on these boards. Question for you- what, in your life, has caused you to launch such personal attacks on people you do not even know, simply for stating a point of view you do not share?
Lol, says the guy who’s first response (since deleted) was “Cubs trolls are out”.
Look, I made one simple statement with plenty of evidence to back it up. You cant deal with that so you try to attack me. Then you question me because I called you out on it when you continue to harp? What can I tell ya man…
I just dont get it.
The only thing a full season of Tony Pena “offsets” is my lunch from my stomach.
Tony Pena was good for 0.9 WAR last year. He was literally as valuable as Jose Valverde.
Which is why sabermetrics cannot be taken as gospel. The numbers say one thing, the games say another.
Hey Tim, the Sox also exercised Matt Thortons option. I guess I didn’t read the whole thing My bad.
It’s almost as if you started typing this, realised the error of your ways in the first portion, proceeded to type the second part & then posted it, but I know that can’t be true. Can it?
I think the White Sox win the division with 89 wins.
fan-exchange.com/mlb/standingspredictions.asp?fran…
I think the central will be very competitive this year, but I think the White Sox have the best pitching, and as long as you can manufacture runs then you can find ways to win.
If you look at their 2009 splits by position, they could easily outperform (AVG & OBP) in every position in 2010 with the exception of 1B and CA.
baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&te…
They do have the best pitching in the division. The offense & defense has a great many questions but the pitching is hands down better than their only other competition, the Twins.
82 wins for the 2010 White Sox.
vr, Xei
This team has a stud rotation. Arguably (meaning not definitively) the best in the AL.
Their bullpen is slightly above average. A serviceable closer with a great setup man, but mediocrity from the other 4-5 guys collectively. They will still help lead Chicago to one of the very best pitching staffs in baseball.
Defense will probably be about average. I’m not going to go into this in depth, but mediocre seems accurate. Whatever 8 guys are out there won’t hurt the staff, but they won’t do them any favors either.
Their offense is a serious problem. Runs will be at a premium for this team. They are no longer the big bashing squad that won a WS. They seem to have tried to model themselves after the Pirahna’s(sp?), but they forgot to make sure those guys can get on base. Sure, they’ll score more runs than Oakland and KC, but that’s not saying a lot.
No team in the AL will be as reliant on their rotation to win games as the ChiSox. Chicago will probably be the most entertaining AL team to watch outside of Seattle, but I don’t think that leads to a division title. Barring a KW win with a trade at some point this season, they will probably finish with 83-84 wins, mostly due to 15 wins against each KC and Cle.
And with Hudler out in Anaheim, they now take the crown of worst TV broadcast team in the AL.
Is it just me or should the “notable losses” title in these reviews be changed simply to “losses”?
The pitching for the White Sox is hands down better than the team they’ll be fighting for the division w/, the Twins. Sweaty Freddy is not someone I’d have any confidence in at this stage in his career, but being the 5th starter it shouldn’t matter too much. Bullpen is strong w/ Putz, Thornton & Jenks. Jenks has dropped over 20 pounds this off-season as well as given up drinking cold turkey, both of which can only be seen as positives. Behind those three it’s a bit iffy but that can be said about most bullpens.
The only thing a full season of Pena offsets is the positive performances of another pitcher w/ his daily roller coaster ride.
By not going year-to-year w/ Teahen, they actually have the potential to save some money or at worst break even. If he’s a total bust then sure they did make a poor choice but as long as he plays well enough to where they’d offer him arbitration it was a good move.
Big time questions offensively at a great many positions & that does indeed create the potential for a horrendous season. If the offense can be serviceable then the pitching should carry them. If all the hitters come alive as they should then this might be a pretty formidable team.